RTP Lec Dem by vidwan Chengleput Renganathan

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 16 Nov 2009, 05:57

Lec dem on RTP by at Ragasudha hall by carnatic music forum on 15th nov

He performed a lec dem on RTP in assoication with Pakala ramadoss on violin and Thanjavur Ramadoss on mirudhangam.
1 Few observations are as listed below
2 The two important factors for an RTP is anulomam and prathi lomam
3 It consists of padham, layam and vinniyasam.
4 As per prof Sambamoorthy' s detailed reasearch on this only Aanandham and Anandham should be uttered and no thanam and thaganam as it is unauspicious.
5 The pattern of singing thanam with layam is in practice at Tiruvanandhapuram palace/court and even now it is sung in this style during navaratri festival concerts.
6 As per Palghat Mani Iyer Nadai should be told first and then only Kalai. 'Nadai solli kalai solla vendum'
7 He had a chance to sing RTP with PM on mirudangam in the year 1971 at Tirchi. PM asked him in which kalai he is going to sing the pallavi. He could not immediatley answer him as he was not fully aware of this. He taught him the intrigacies and played RTP to everybody's satisfaction.
After telling the Nadai , Kalai 1,2 4 and 8 should be told.
8 Niraval can be more than swara singing.
9 If there is niraval in 2nd kalam no need to elaborate Niraval in 1st kalam.
10 Gathi is different from Nadai.
11 Gathi comes inside Nadai
12 Shri LGJ was the first musician to introduce this in RTP.
In 1954 in a concert LGJ wanted his guru Alathoor Srivasa Iyer to sing to this style [for the 1st time on the podium itself.] PM Iyer accompanied him on mirudangam.
His guru immediately sang to this style and since then this pattern is followed.
13 Another feature of LGJ's style is to sing pallavi with Gathi betham.

Shri Chengleput Renganathan sang an elaborate RTP in the raga Kanthimathi in Kanta nadai demonstrating all the above features. The pallavi was 'Ninnu Neranammi Neeraja Thala nethra'
There was a question- answer session after the programme and he explained thoroghly to the satisfaction of beginners. The progrm was informative and educative. Though it was raining the Hall was full.
Dr. Sundar gave a vote of thanks.

Thanjavooran

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 16 Nov 2009, 07:57

thanjavooran wrote: 10 Gathi is different from Nadai.
11 Gathi comes inside Nadai
12 Shri LGJ was the first musician to introduce this in RTP.
In 1954 in a concert LGJ wanted his guru Alathoor Srivasa Iyer to sing to this style [for the 1st time on the podium itself.] PM Iyer accompanied him on mirudangam.
His guru immediately sang to this style and since then this pattern is followed.

CR gave the same anecdote few months back when KBMK was singing an exclusive pallavi concert . That day in 1954 at trichy (malakOttai), the RTP was sung in the rAgam nAttaikurinji, with LGJ suggesting to Alathur brothers ,who just liked the concept and took it

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Nov 2009, 08:30

I would like to understand clearly and in as simple manner as possible the items 6, 7, 10,1 1, 12 and 13 especially how nadai, gathi and kaLai are related to each other. It will be great if someone recorded the lec-dem and share it with us with the great vidwan's permission.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 16 Nov 2009, 08:32

Yes - I've been thinking that naDai and gati are interchangeable

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 16 Nov 2009, 09:24

As per yesterday's lec-dem , let me try to notate what Sri.CR was trying to explain . He was telling that gathi and nadai are totally different ( though i have a different opinion on this as gathi is sanskrit and nadai is tamil " ) . As far kalai is concerned , it is just the number of times , the beats of a certain thAla are put . For eg , in 2-kalai Adhi thAlam , the beats are put twice , just like they are put once in 1-kalai thAlam.

Now to the concept of nadai and gathi . Now for simplicity , let us take the example of Adhi thAlam 1-kalai .

1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

The ones in the roman symbols indicate the beats of adhi thAlam , so there are totally 8 beats with 4-aksharas per beat . Now as per Sri.CR's explanation , this is Adhi thAlam chatusra nadai , 1-kalai . He also explained , gathi is something which is played in a nadai . Now , let us try to take tisram .

1 2 3 / 4 1 2 / 3 4 1 / 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 / 4 1 2 / 3 4 1 / 2 3 4
I II III IV V VI VII VIII

So when we see now , it becomes 3 aksharas per beat which indicates tisram . So he told we should say that as , " chatusra nadai la tisra gathi vAsikkardhu " ( playing ttisra gathi in chatusra nadai ) .

He also explained that the same goes for all the patterns .

Arvind.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 16 Nov 2009, 15:10

Semmu... onnum puriyala... In the tisra gathi, why are you using 4? What is it that repeats in cycles of 4? Is that dependent on the lyrics?

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 16 Nov 2009, 15:49

@ sureshvv

He's using numbers upto 4 because the naDai is chaturashram.

For example, if you're singing, say brOva bhAramA, and sing swarams like
sgm gmp mpd nsg mgs gsn pmg mpd nsg mgs np-m gmp dn-brOva bhArmA

then you're said to be singing tishra gati swarams, for the composition which is in chaturashra naDai. Have I understood right, semmu86?

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 16 Nov 2009, 16:46

Yes srikant . You got it. This was what he was explaining in the programme .

Arvind

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 16 Nov 2009, 22:04

semmu86, can you overlay your example with some simple lyrics? I can see how that works with swaras but not how it will work with lyrical syllables.