There was this interview in 'The HINDU' with the well known pandita, Sri Ludwig Pesch:
http://beta.thehindu.com/arts/music/article48068.ece
In this article he makes some observations about practices of CM performers with regard to lec dem, sound augmentation etc. Wonder what rasikas think?
Thanks,
Interest in CM
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cacm
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Nick H
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I do not think that he is talking about the lec-dem as we know it in Chennai. It would be an absurd statement, if that were the case. There is absolutely no doubt about the place and popularity of lec-dems.
What he talking about is the attitude of some performers in the west, playing to western audiences, that this must be something new to their audience, and something that, perhaps, they might never have even seen before. It is done in the best intentions, but those intentions are misplaced. Can you imagine how annoyed you would feel if, at the end of the alap, the artist stopped to explain, as if to schoolchildren, that he had just been singing raga, and so on. The program says Indian music, the audience do not want Introduction for Dummies.
This is an entirely different thing to the true lec-dem. It is a phenomenon that most members here may have never experienced.
As to issues such as sound quality, even voice quality sometimes, never mind amplification, this is an issue well covered in rasikas.org. Whilst one might expect that the situation would be better in professional western concert halls, I regret to say that very often it isn't.
What he talking about is the attitude of some performers in the west, playing to western audiences, that this must be something new to their audience, and something that, perhaps, they might never have even seen before. It is done in the best intentions, but those intentions are misplaced. Can you imagine how annoyed you would feel if, at the end of the alap, the artist stopped to explain, as if to schoolchildren, that he had just been singing raga, and so on. The program says Indian music, the audience do not want Introduction for Dummies.
This is an entirely different thing to the true lec-dem. It is a phenomenon that most members here may have never experienced.
As to issues such as sound quality, even voice quality sometimes, never mind amplification, this is an issue well covered in rasikas.org. Whilst one might expect that the situation would be better in professional western concert halls, I regret to say that very often it isn't.
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kedaram
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Like Nick, I had no trouble understanding his rather sincere intentions and it would be good for many musicians to heed his advice.
As for the comment made about "not competent enough". Please watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpSI9qA87CU - around the 7:45.
Ludwig Pesch remains today one of the last and perhaps most authentic performers of flute music from a bygone era. Like the veena was to Dikshitar's music, that venu which produces music that flows in torrents is the domain of Thyagaraja's sangathi intensive approach. The cascading flow of notes and the dancing fingers almost reminds one of the mysore school of veena playing. How apt perhaps that they played Bilahari replete with judicious use of its famous vakra and jhanta patterns.
Despite all the pressures produced by the mali school of whom I too am a part of, his dedication to his art form and guru to me are measures enough of his competence. When listening to him, I wonder how it is truly possible to pull of some of the sancharas without using mali's fingering technique. But his sound is for real! For a flute aficionado, sri pesch will remain a physical embodiment of a long heritage of instrumental tradition that predates all other forms of instrumental music in india, including the yazh, mridanga and veena.
High Brow comments indeed! - made by those who misinterpret are...
As for the comment made about "not competent enough". Please watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpSI9qA87CU - around the 7:45.
Ludwig Pesch remains today one of the last and perhaps most authentic performers of flute music from a bygone era. Like the veena was to Dikshitar's music, that venu which produces music that flows in torrents is the domain of Thyagaraja's sangathi intensive approach. The cascading flow of notes and the dancing fingers almost reminds one of the mysore school of veena playing. How apt perhaps that they played Bilahari replete with judicious use of its famous vakra and jhanta patterns.
Despite all the pressures produced by the mali school of whom I too am a part of, his dedication to his art form and guru to me are measures enough of his competence. When listening to him, I wonder how it is truly possible to pull of some of the sancharas without using mali's fingering technique. But his sound is for real! For a flute aficionado, sri pesch will remain a physical embodiment of a long heritage of instrumental tradition that predates all other forms of instrumental music in india, including the yazh, mridanga and veena.
High Brow comments indeed! - made by those who misinterpret are...
Last edited by kedaram on 15 Nov 2009, 01:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Nick H
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vkv43034 wrote:N,
HE has to make the caveat you have introduced EXPLICIT. VKV
"Not all Carnatic musicians touring abroad seem to realise that interest in Indian culture and music has long been sincere and sustained over several generations. I noticed that some performers inadvertently offend their listeners by ‘talking down’ to them, offering random bits of music theory right from the concert stage with the best of intentions."
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vasanthakokilam
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I agree that overdoing the talk on the theory of CM and such things during a concert can be very annoying but I did not know that CM musicians do such things. But blaming that, if not overdone, for the lack of popularity of CM in Europe seems to be misdirected. There may be other reasons.
The equivalent of that in dance concerts is usually welcomed by non-Indian audiences and by some Indian audiences as well. There, they read out the story along with the abhinaya by the dancer helps them enjoy the dance that much better. It is not theory but a mini-lecture nonetheless.
Anyway, his point about "sound augmentation", if it refers to proper vocalization, is a valid point and as Nick wrote, that has been discussed here a lot. But I read that paragraph a few times but I can not figure out exactly what he was getting at. What does he mean by "seem oblivious of the new opportunities to showcase the subtleties of their music in an unobtrusive manner", "the realisation of the sheer beauty of unadulterated sound" etc. Is that about improper amplification, proper singing, good voice culture or what? He seems to be making a significant points and it is frustrating that such things are not written in an understandable and straightforward manner but couched in some generic words.
kedaram, thanks for that kalakshetra link. That led me to view all the parts. The instructions the teacher gives the students are quite interesting. I sort of like that ground reality much better than the distance we face in a typical dance concert. While watching it, I could not help think that all the make-up, dress and ornaments the dancer wears, though extraordinarily beautiful, takes something away from the emotional expressions of the dancer. The simplicity exhibited during these teaching sessions is indeed quite charming.
You make some valid points about the flute styles and schools. Is the style of playing the flute by Ludwig Pesch called, somewhat derisively by some, as the thuthakaram style? Just trying to relate to what you are saying. I had heard quite a while back that Sikkil sisters employ the thuthakaram style. Is that true? Are the sisters' technique and Pesch's technique belong to the same bANi?
The equivalent of that in dance concerts is usually welcomed by non-Indian audiences and by some Indian audiences as well. There, they read out the story along with the abhinaya by the dancer helps them enjoy the dance that much better. It is not theory but a mini-lecture nonetheless.
Anyway, his point about "sound augmentation", if it refers to proper vocalization, is a valid point and as Nick wrote, that has been discussed here a lot. But I read that paragraph a few times but I can not figure out exactly what he was getting at. What does he mean by "seem oblivious of the new opportunities to showcase the subtleties of their music in an unobtrusive manner", "the realisation of the sheer beauty of unadulterated sound" etc. Is that about improper amplification, proper singing, good voice culture or what? He seems to be making a significant points and it is frustrating that such things are not written in an understandable and straightforward manner but couched in some generic words.
kedaram, thanks for that kalakshetra link. That led me to view all the parts. The instructions the teacher gives the students are quite interesting. I sort of like that ground reality much better than the distance we face in a typical dance concert. While watching it, I could not help think that all the make-up, dress and ornaments the dancer wears, though extraordinarily beautiful, takes something away from the emotional expressions of the dancer. The simplicity exhibited during these teaching sessions is indeed quite charming.
You make some valid points about the flute styles and schools. Is the style of playing the flute by Ludwig Pesch called, somewhat derisively by some, as the thuthakaram style? Just trying to relate to what you are saying. I had heard quite a while back that Sikkil sisters employ the thuthakaram style. Is that true? Are the sisters' technique and Pesch's technique belong to the same bANi?
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munirao2001
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Taking serious reading of the opinions of Mr.Ludwig Pesch in the interview published; let us examine the issue in right perspective.
1) Interest in Music - KM.
1.1."I noticed that some performers inadvertently offend their listeners by ‘talking down’ to them, offering random bits of music theory right from the concert stage with the best of intentions."
1) Interest in Music - KM.
1.1."I noticed that some performers inadvertently offend their listeners by ‘talking down’ to them, offering random bits of music theory right from the concert stage with the best of intentions."