Tradition - The "big" deal

[jimihendrix]

We have come across two roads that artistes take - "Lakshanam" and "Lakshiyam". This has always been hazy to me. We talk about the music grammar and sometimes don't we just lose our motive?? Lakshyam gives more importance to Bhavam, and in that respect bends the frontiers of the scale. I have heard many people sing "da ni sa ni da ma" in Reethigowlai ragam like sriranjani. It sounds fine to me. Even giants like semmangudi srinivasa iyer have used that prayogam. What does this mean? Does this mean that, maybe ragams can evolve too?? What about traditional ragams like begada, maanji, sahana??? It makes one wonder how they would've been, before they actually became these ragas? how did it exactly happen??

If someone has any info... please share

[Nick H]

Look what has happened to the English language. It doesn't matter whether it is in India, America or UK, when such structural nonsenses as "upgradation" and (one from the Indian lawyers), "pendancy" become the norm, which they have, the bones of the skeleton are broken.

That skeleton had flesh of all kinds, and clothes of an even greater diversity, but the bones were the strength, now considered unimportant.

I'm waffling on, but I do feel that, rather than an utterly off topic rant (;)), there is a useful analogy to music here.

Yet another analogy: the better a craftsman knows his tools, the more he knows just exactly how much he can mis-use them, and still produce first-class results --- but, without the initial discipline, the results may always be second-class.

[jimihendrix]

Yeah... I get it perfectly.. my point is, semmangudi mama knew how to use that prayogam effectively, for bhavam, but still managed to maintain the flavor of that raga. To me, that's exciting. That's the sign of a true genius. What a great Athma he was.

"The better a craftsman knows his tools, the more he knows just exactly how much he can mis-use them, and still produce first-class results --- but, without the initial discipline, the results may always be second-class" - beautiful analogy.

[munirao2001]

jimihendrix
In some of my posts, already this subject has been discussed. For your ready reference, I am posting, afresh, relevant part of my post.

1) "Experience becomes knowledge. Knowledge becomes Tradition. Tradition becomes immortal, with enrichment. Novelty and Excitement values etc, not capable of enrichment, die or fade away, many a times, leaving a stain or stench. Enrichment happens only with fresh, new, creative, innovative experience and knowledge, which meets the requirement of classical excellence, undisputedly and clearly. Tradition-classical excellence-does not shut out rich additions, which have demonstrated quality of time tested and ever lasting and truly delivers total satisfaction, meeting the goals of the music.

2) In the ideal of acquisition of very good knowledge of both Lakshya and Lakshnana gnanam, primacy is always for lakshya, over the lakshana. But, lakshana is also well structured to train, equip and deliver emotional satisfaction. The factor of differentiation vests, solely on the degree of deliverance of satisfaction. Choice is made on the strength of capability for repeatability, higher potential for recall experiences deliverance and consistency in delivery. The critical factor of character, trait, and talent - derivatives of instinct and intuition and the strength of practice, makes or contributes for the determination of difference. The lack of quality or low quality is definitely not reflection on the theory or it's perceived or attributed limitations.

3) In 'Nibidha'-well structured, unique and clear grammar/rules/practices in KM, prohibits wrong use. With well developed melakartha system on raga/scales, practitioner and performer should adhere to the scale of the raga/raga swarupam. Wrong usage is violation and mistake. But for the sake of 'rasanubhavam' mistake(s) are ignored, deliberately and consciously. Misuse is strictly prohibited and not tolerated. The lack of 'rasanubhavam' through overlap of other scales/raga on to the raga in rendition, affecting the raga, with lack of control or knowledge of the performer, is wrong usage, and becomes misuse. Novelty of ' Graha bhedam' delineation, usage of common scales of other ragas, is permitted and used, occasionally as demonstration of the performers skill, control and knowledge. However, many a times, it results in 'Grahachara bhedam' only.

4) With well developed micro tones/gamakas in KM, some of the prayogas do contain either similar swaram/note or dissimilar swaram/note. If the practice has arisen out of classical excellence-the Tradition and Bani, it is permitted or grudgingly tolerated by musicologists.

munirao2001

[jimihendrix]

@ munirao.

Oh.. agreed. I am aware of these things.

The purpose of my post was to trace the evolution of these ragas. When did these "Aadhara heavy classical" ragas come into existence? How? We can't talk about 72 melakartha scale. These ragas go beyond explanations. I am particularly talking about ragas like, Mukhari, Sahana, Surati,etc

Can someone explain their origin?

[srikant1987]

Yet another analogy: the better a craftsman knows his tools, the more he knows just exactly how much he can mis-use them, and still produce first-class results --- but, without the initial discipline, the results may always be second-class.

Well, I don't see why you were being so concerned about English's grammar, actually. To call it breaking the skeleton is a little too much!

But that said, people who employ tons of slang in English are of two kinds: one kind who know the language well and now feel (rather genuinely) that their command gives them some right to introduce their own colours to the language, and another who use slang to hide their weaknesses (or maybe never realised they're using slang). For example, someone asked me, "Do you have bucks?" to know if they could borrow some money from me.

[srikant1987]

@ topic

I think that the very fact that someone chose to sing reeti gowlai would put them in the know-it-well-but-want-to-add-their-own-colour group.