Sampradaya Presents Samvada - IV

[rithvikraja]

‘Samvada - A Conversation’

‘Sangita Kalanidhi’
Shri MS Gopalakrishnan

Assisted by ‘Kalaimamani’
Dr. M Narmada

In Conversation with

Shri Sriram Parasuram

@ Raga Sudha Hall, Luz
On 27th November 2009 at 6.30 pm

Questions for Shri MS Gopalakrishnan can be
emailed in advance to [email protected] website www.sampradaya.org

Our next Samvada
25th December 09 - Musicians with Critics
26th December 09 - Musicians with Rasikas
Venue: Sri Parvathi Hall, Eldams Road, Alwarpet
Time: 10.00 am

[munirao2001]

rithvikraja,
I wanted to remind you about your promise that you will send the details on the question and answer poser to Sangita Kala Acharya Smt.Kalpagam Swaminathan, in the III edition. Can I have the details ?
munirao2001

[rithvikraja]

Dear munirao2001, i apologise for the delay

please find the response to your question has been posted in the previous Samvada thread

please let me know if you need any other clarifications

thank you

Rithvik

[munirao2001]

Rithvik,
Thanks, typically 'it is better late, than never'! Any English language daily published the Samvada-III, like Samvada-II with Shri RKS ? If, yes kindly post it for the knowledge and benefit of all those who could not attend the Samvada,

munirao2001

[munirao2001]

Rithvik,
My request and question to Maestro MSG is:
1) Taking in to consideration the debate on the quality and techniques of the past Great/Maestros, playing violin in comparison with the present Great/Maestros, playing violin-both as accompanists and soloists, can you clarify and educate the rasikas on the values lost, values to be imbibed and values gained by the present Great/Maestros, which was absent in the past Great/Maestros?

2) What is your personal views on Great/Maestros preferring to be only Soloists, having accompanied Great Maestros Vocalists and concluding that the quality of the music of the present Vocalists do not enthuse or motivate them to accompany?

3) Why Great Maestros/Maestros, Violinists - Male, in particular are not accompanying Great Maestros/Maestros/Vidushis, with very few exceptions? Is it is by choice or reasons of any other compulsions?

4) With mastery of violin playing both KM and HM, which padathi is more demanding in terms of technique? Few illustrations please.

I will be keenly looking forward to receive your post/replies to these/accepted (worthy) questions, as I am doubtful in attending the Samvada-IV

Sandhyavandanam Madhva Muni Rao (munirao2001)

[harimau]

Rithvik,
Thanks, typically 'it is better late, than never'! Any English language daily published the Samvada-III, like Samvada-II with Shri RKS ? If, yes kindly post it for the knowledge and benefit of all those who could not attend the Samvada,

munirao2001

Samvada II was with Sri T K Murthy. Samvada I was with Sri R K Srikantan.

"The Hindu" to my knowledge didn't publish anything on Samvada II.

When asked what was the difference between music of an earlier time and now, Sri Murthy's answer was that today's concerts lacked "gauravam", a point that almost all musicians in the 60+ category seem to agree on.

[srinivasrgvn]

"The Hindu" to my knowledge didn't publish anything on Samvada II.

You are wrong. Here is the report published in The Hindu:

http://beta.thehindu.com/arts/music/article27365.ece

[munirao2001]

srinivasrgvn
Any report published by the Hindu on Samvada with Kalpagam mami ?

munirao2001

[bilahari]

I second all of Sri Muni Rao's questions for Sri MSG. I am particularly interested in question 4.

[munirao2001]

srinvasrgvn
Thanks for the link.
harimau,
On Shri TKM Sir opinion of lack of 'guaravam' in the present day Vidwans music, without necessary information to substantiate his opinion, Veteran is likely to be misunderstood. As a sweeping statement encompassing all the Vidwans and their music lacking in 'guaravam' is not correct and is acceptable. Fortunately we have many Great/Maestros to-day, continuing to give music pregnant with 'guaravam', against heavy odds.
'guaravam' in music comprises-guaravam gained by giving music with total satisfaction and creating abiding interest for recall memory of great musical offerings, guaravam gained by the offer of uncompromisingly classicism, sticking self lessly to the pata of Vaggeyakaras, as handed down by the Great Maestros, guaravam gained by the knowledge-Vidwath and scholarship, guaravam, simply for the ripened age.
One common complaint of Senior Vidwans is 'guaravam' not given or expressed by the young vidwans to the seniors. If this'guaravam' TKM Sir has referred/opined, I partly agree, if not totally/sweepingly.

munirao2001

[msakella]

I sincerely feel, being ideal, ‘gauravam’ must be commanded but not demanded. amsharma

[munirao2001]

Dear brother member msakella/amsharma garu
Gauravam aspect raised by Great Maestro TKM Sir, is the respect for the Vidwath of the musician, which is established and enjoying the reputation and admiration. Musicians of such stature and accomplishments, do not command 'gauravam' but, love. The tradition of expression or communication of 'gauravam' and seeking blessings to/from the Senior Musicians being well established in India, leads to the disappointment or dismay at the contrary behaviour. This is better avoided. It calls for sensitivity and at times, alertness.
munirao2001

[munirao2001]

Rithvik Raja,
I am yet to receive your acceptance for the questions suggested to be put to MSG Sir. Please confirm the decision.
Thanks
munirao2001

[rithvikraja]

Yes munirao2001

Your questions have been forwarded to the sampradaya email id.

Regards

Rithvik Raja

[musicfan_4201]

..

[munirao2001]

Rithvik Raja
Thanks. I will be keenly looking forward to your post on replies to these/accepted/posed/answered my questions.

muni rao2001

[rithvikraja]

Dear Forumites,

This is a kind request to henceforth please forward all questions to [email protected]

Rithvik Raja

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, S.NAGESWARAN, Not only that. In fact, I guess there are hundreds of incidents in his life which the aspirants of later generations must listen to and shape themselves accordingly. Being an ardent follower of him like Ekalavya to Dronachaarya I am not in a position to send him a question. But, I would like to narrate here an incident.

Late Ch. Bheemshankar Rao, my colleague and great vetaran of Hindusthani Vocal and descendant of Pandit Vishnu Digambar’s school, had once been to Chennai long long ago. Then, it seems, belonging to the same school, Late Parur Sundaram Iyer invited him to his residence to listen to his son’s (Shri MSG’s) violin and bless him. When he went there Shri MSG played the Hindusthani-raga Goudsaarang - of our Kalyani notes but with M1 foreign note both in Arohana and Avarohana - S G R M1 G P M2 D P N D S - S D N P D M2 P G M1 R P R S. In general, many people are afraid of handling this difficult Raga but Shri MSG played it exceedingly. ‘Blessing him!!! Everybody must prostrate before him after listening to the deft handling of that raga’ Ch.Bh.R. himself told me. There may be great Violinists in western countries but they know only western i.e., having only one rupee while Shri MSG is the Master of that instrument fully equipped with Karnataka music, Hindusthani music and also western music i.e., having 3 rupees at a time. amsharma

[Ragjay]

A great program indeed ,after two carnatic krithis Ninne bhajana and Nalinakanti ,and Puryadhanashree and misra mand in Hindustani style and a brief description of his training under his father and practial demonstration of their technique of playing in Parur style by Dr.Narmadha ,the interaction with Sriram Parasuram was exceptional and his reverence to his father and other senior muscians like Ariakudi GNB MMI SSI etc was straight from his heart. His admiration for the laya gnana of Lalgudi Sir and sowkhyam playing of TNK Sir were genuine. and the icing on the cake a ghana ragamallika tana to round up the programme.It is fortunate that sampradaya has recorded only for archival purpose I hope it would be available at their place for listening and viewing A sure not to miss item Ragjay

[rajeshnat]

ragjay
I am sure this would be a great one , considering not just MSG-dr narmada , but also sriram parasuram who must have asked great questions , as he is a great speaker

[thanjavooran]

The program started at 18 40 hrs. TMK welcomed the gathering. Shriman MSG played 4 songs as above and the discussions session started. some of the observations are as below. Kindly excuse for poor expression.
1 Tharana is thillana's counterpart in HM and it has no meaning. Mere words
2 Parur Sundaram Iyer popularised this and the style is Parur's contribution to the music world.
3. In 1910 Parur went to Bombay for a concert. In North, playing of violin for HM was started by Parur only. Before that Sarangi was played.
4. Parur's colleagues were Pundit Omkaranath takkur and Pundit Ravishankar's father in law. Parur taught him the melakartha ragas and Pundit Ravishankar learnt it from his father in law.
5. The regular system of Sa pa Saa in CM is different that of HM and Parur performed swaram in keezh mantharasthayee by tuning the violin
6 North indian musicians were invited to chennai for playing HM only by Parur Sundaram Iyer.
7. Parur used to attend convferences in North India in connection with playing of violin.
8. He went to Kabul as a violinist to Omkaranath takkur.
9 Parur used to play keeping Manthaaram as sadjam and this was demonstrated by Dr. Narmada. She played Kalyani varnam
10. Parur style is a violinisation of violin.
11 Parur family consists of two sisters and two sons [MSA and MSG]
12 There is no violin w/o Parur fmly. and Parur is a small village in Kerala.
13 In his childhood days the two sisters will play tambura sruti and he and his brother will practice with Parur daily by 4 00 AM for 5 hrs
14. His guru/father used to be very strict and he was a strict disciplinarian.
15 His father trained them how to play for various musicians.
16. For accompaniment, raga should be played less than the vocalist's duration of delineation
17. Transition of raga from one to the other during ragamalika by KVN used to be nice and he has played for all the yesteryears vidwans.
18. For a question by Sriram Parasuram [ anchor person ] as regards to the challenge of accompanying the great masteros viz ARI, GNB,MMI and SSI he told that all these musicians were great and specialised in their own styles . He has accompanied Chembai, MSS and MLV too.
19. BMK used to sing new ragas and compositions.
20. Violin should be a pakka vaadhyam and not as a Pakkaa vadhyam
11. Parur would advise them to devote much attention to violin and should never become headstrong [garvam/ thalai ganam]
12. Parur had improvised Nalinakanthi to a new dimension and this was the first record by HMV .
13. For a question about his stay in chennai instead of residing in North to establish his versatality in HM, he replied that Parur wanted him to stay in Tamil nadu and to stand unique in playing HM and blessed him stay independent in his skill.
14 In north, only H.M is popular and nobody shows interest in CM including Vidwans, barring few.
15 Narmada mentioned that there should not be any shivering while bowing and should not scratch the strings .
16. Narmada played kalyani varnam in a single string. She mentioned that a speedy piece must be in the menu
17. For a question about the styles of LGJ, TNK, MC and Kunnakudi ,he safely mentioned that each one is having a separate style in their own way and he enjoyed their playing.
18. His advice for younger generation and budding artistes, Parents should encourage children to learn music in any form. Interest should be planted by parents only
19. An artiste with proficiency in CM can play easily HM . CM is the back bone.
20. Practice should be the part of the habit and 5 hrs a day for 5 years will make a man to know little about the art and constant practice will make him perfect.
21. Narmada played 16 notes in a single bowing played gamakam on a single string. She mentioned that there should not be any cut while bowing.
22. Narmada mentioned that items should be selected and presented suitably to the taste of rasikas and they should be taken care since music is universal.
23. As a father he never listens to her playing violin and his remarks are impartial.
23. MSG used to enjoy HM by Begum Akthar, Bhimsen Joshi and he is a rasika cum performer.
24 For a question he told that chennai is a' Vazhavaitha idam' for him too like MSS , Thanjavoor SK and other musicians. If a musician comes to chennai he will shine well and will come to the top level.
25. Youngsters should learn vocal and the meaning of the sahithyam also should be learnt before taking up violin and one should respect Guru to get his blessings.
26 sriram during summation of the discussions mentioned that MSG is very simple and humble and should have won the Nobel prize if one such is awarded.
27. TMK gave a vote of thanks.

The function was well attended though it was a working day and the Hall was full. Sriram Parasuram could have straight away put the question to mastero instead of beating about the bush which irked few rasikas. TMK in his welcome address wanted rasikas to desist from recording the event in any form..

Thanjavooran

[rajeshnat]

10. Parur style is a violinisation of violin.

Tx thanjavooran , what does that violinisation of violin mean

[laks1972]

Corrections:

Point 5: While accompanying some HM musicians, Parur Sundaram Iyer (PSI) was faced with the situation where he had to go down below mantra shadjam. Since the violin's lowest swara is mantram shadjam, PSI innovated by adjusting the sruthi adjustment knob (at the base of the violin) to produce those sub-mantra notes. This was demonstrated by Dr Narmadha

Point 9: Parur introduced practice of varnams in single string in each of the strings, starting at mantram. This was demonstrated by Dr MN. She played Kalyani Ata thala varnam in this method.

Point 17: When asked what he liked in LGJ, TNK and MC , MSG said LGJ is a born genius in layam, TNK's violin playing is"sowkyam" based and added MC and Kunnakudi also had their own styles and strengths. He did not "safely" say anything to evade the question. His remark was a very positive one prasing the various artists for their strengths.

[S.NAGESWARAN]

Dear AM Sharama and others who have posted their views,

I have also attended the Samvadha VI meeting. It is true that Sri Sriram Paasuram was beating around the bush when he was putting through the questions [Perhaps the reverence and awe of Sri MSG’s presence, the Great Violinist of this era might have prevented Sri Parasuram in putting the questions forthright].

In my opinion, most of us{including me} would be toungtied when we meet Sri MSG in person and try to even to converse, leave alone posing some questions to him.

However, he had clearly indicated that the demonstration and explaining the details of the techniques adopted in the Parur School requires a separate session.
So Dr.Narmada had to shorten her demonstration in a limited way.

S.NAGESWARAN.
01.12.2009.

[sbala]

I think Shriram deserves some blame but one must note that quite a bit of the time was taken up by the krithis and aalaps. He said that Parur technique cannot be covered in one session and instead wanted to focus on "MSG the person". As a result, the session turned out to be more entertaining than educational.

It is quite common for carnatic music lecdems to go haywire. It's a pity because Narmada appeared willing to share a lot on the technique. Maybe, there will be some more sessions with the God of violin that will focus purely on technique.

[srikant1987]

Who are the musicians that'll take part in the Musicians with Rasikas and Musicians with Critiques samvAdas?

[vasanthakokilam]

........I sincerely feel that making video-recordings of his Lecture-demonstrations of all his techniques at length and keeping them in the archives for the posterity, irrrespective of any financial implications, is the only befitting recognition to such a great Violinist. amsharma

I feel just keep adding to the archive is of no use if people have no access to it. It will only make archives dumping yard.

Public should be given access to those archives in some way to realise value

Akellaji makes a very valid point regarding preserving the greatness of MSG.
Let us encourage Sampradaya to put it up on YouTube.
If Sampradaya is not willing, they are not the right organization for this purpose.

Preservation can be achieved only through wide usage and propagation.
A 'safety locker' makes sense only when there is a fear of losing it

Where is the question of losing something when it is freely accessible to all.

I know akellaji demonstrates this wholeheartedly through his own actions.

Only thing we rasikas, as guardians of such public material, need to do is to not let it suffer the same fate of statues of great people in public places.
Instead we need to nurture them and keep them green over many generations.

[bilahari]

I agree entirely about the archival and accessibility of archives. Also, I do encourage Sampradaya to conduct a separate session with MSG and Narmada on the Parur bani, since this session seemed to have focused more on MSG's life than his art.

[srikant1987]

How about a discussion between two artists of different schools comparing their technique?

[bilahari]

Oh, that would be great! I think a technique comparison of the Narayana Iyer, Lalgudi, Parur, and MC banis would be excellent - and it can be coordinated by their respective progeny. I would pay good money to attend such a program (though it should on principle be free!).

[msakella]

vasanthakokilam : Not only that dear. In these days, having a number of facilities to make either audio or video-recordings at any time, carry all of them in your pocket and listen to them at any time and place, it is a boon to the aspirants nowadays to properly develop their expertise by properly availing all these facilities and, I feel, that it is the duty of the so called elders and experts to do every possible thing in this respect to help our kids develop rapidly. For this purpose, each and every person, either freelancer or employee or retired employee getting pension, living on music, must contribute 1% of his income, at the least, to an organisation which strives hard sincerely and honestly. Every expert must do the needful in giving his recordings either audio in respect of vocalists or video in respect of Instrumentalists and dancers. Some nominal amount of the collections should be paid to the experts as an hanororium and they, in turn, do the needful to record their music either audio or video free of any charges which, in turn, will be kept in archives for free distribution to the needy aspirants.

Madras Music Academy is called Mecca of Karnataka music and I think there are more than 50 Sabhas in Chennai itself. Can’t they all come together to work on these lines for the development of our kids? If they do the needful honestly and sincerely in this respect every organisation of Karnataka music on the globe comes forward to help this organisation. Instead of speaking very high and doing very little for the posterity can’t we do this for our kids being ideal to all others? amsharma

[munirao2001]

Dear Brother-member msakella garu,
All the rasikas of KM will heartily endorse your statement "I sincerely feel that making video-recordings of his Lecture-demonstrations of all his techniques at length and keeping them in the archives for the posterity, irrespective of any financial implications, is the only befitting recognition to such a great Violinist". Instead of so many individuals and organizations, MMA should make their TAG archives as "National", accepting your valued suggestion and implement it. MMA to raise the required funds through sponsorships and endowments can achieve this goal. Great Maestros/Maestros need to be paid well, with love and respect. They should be allowed to decide what to do with the 'Guru Dakshina'
Eminent and popular Musicians of all other genre of music, including HM get paid well. Why this taboo or curse on Musicians of KM? whether voluntary or involuntary.
The spirit with which I mentioned that MSG Sir has received recognition is that Rasikas supporting and enjoying his music spanning well over Six decades and some of the prestigious awards and titles have been conferred on this Great Maestro is sufficient proof of popularity of values in his music and sadhana.

munirao2001

[Gamakam]

My article on Sampradaya that appeared in this month's amudhasurabi magazine: http://carnaticmusicreview.wordpress.co ... %e0%af%8d/

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, munirao2001, Even though I did start my sojourn in music as Mridangist from my 3rd year of age and later as Vocalist, Harmonist I switched over to Violin in my 17th year. After getting my Diploma in Violin, by the grace of the Almighty, though fully in-experienced as a teacher and, adding fuel to the fire, as the members on the selection committee are also in-experienced to select a teacher, I could get an appointment as Lecturer in Violin in my 23rd year. Later, even in my 35 years of service as a teacher (23 years as Lecturer + 12 years as Principal), as there was not even a single academic inspection and nobody is aware of the harm I did to my students in making them impotents I could successfully retire from service in 1996 without any hinderance at all. Thus, my life itself is an example how an in-efficient teacher successfully spoils the entire generation. For nearly 20 years of my service even though I have thus spoiled many of my students, only by the grace of the Almighty, later I could introspect my self and slowly started finding easy methods in teaching and also started producing talented students accordidngly. But, even after my retirement, as I could continue my experiments till now, I am able to serve my society more efficiently to my utmost satisfaction (since a long time, I have been searching to find an efficient, sincere, honest and loyal music-teacher to clear off my doubts but in vain).

Even in my artistic life as Violinist, I have started from the bottom level and only by the grace of the Almighty I could attain Top-grade in All India Radio and also travelled abroad participating in music concerts.

To tell the fact, even though very few people enlightened me very little in music, I have been blessed by the Almighty abundantly in all respects along with contentment. The Almighty is nowhere but in all the beings of my society and whatever I have acquired has come from the society itself. That is why I want to serve my society to the maximum until my last breath even without expecting anything in turn from my society. Already having earned everything from the society and as it is not at all justifiable still to expect something from the society for my services to be rendered I have myself recorded numerous audio and video files of Vocal & Violin, to the best of my abilities, and kept all of them easily accessible to the aspirants all over the globe.

I sincerely expect the same from all my fellow musicians in serving the cause of music. amsharma

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, gamakam, I have gone to the link you have furnished in your post but could not make out anything as it is in Tamil and as I cannot read though speak a little. If you truly feel to make it accessible to one and all kindly arrange to give the version in English also. amsharma

[Gamakam]

Dear msakella,

You have a valid point. Unfortunately, I don't have the facility to write corrigibly in english. Pls. excuse!