Sindhu Kanada
-
- Posts: 46
- Joined: 07 Feb 2010, 01:36
I just happened to finally locate the song that has been playing out in my mind, ever since a friend hummed it in passing.
It is "Nannu kanna thalli" in Sindhu Kanada, also known as kesari.
Here is a neat version by Hyderabad brothers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-cSX75jIZk
I would appreciate if people post info/clips on this raga
It is "Nannu kanna thalli" in Sindhu Kanada, also known as kesari.
Here is a neat version by Hyderabad brothers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-cSX75jIZk
I would appreciate if people post info/clips on this raga
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
is it possible that there is a delay between the audio and video in that clip? other versions of this kriti begin "as expected"
M. Balamuralikrishna - vocal
http://www.hummaa.com/music/song/Manu+K ... li/126885#
Lalitha and Nandini - violin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGVRLPLFNY
Priya sisters - vocal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqus9ZDIBV4
commentary on ragas kesari and sindhukanada
http://www.carnatica.net/special/ksetra-tyaga-ppn-i.htm
M. Balamuralikrishna - vocal
http://www.hummaa.com/music/song/Manu+K ... li/126885#
Lalitha and Nandini - violin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emGVRLPLFNY
Priya sisters - vocal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gqus9ZDIBV4
commentary on ragas kesari and sindhukanada
http://www.carnatica.net/special/ksetra-tyaga-ppn-i.htm
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
Nandagopal: Thanks for the links. Yes, the other renditions begin "as expected". For Hyd. bros, I was going by the audio itself. Also, listen to the anupallavi. The "rAma" of kanakAngi rAma" starts on the half beat after the 5th beat whereas for others it falls on the 5th beat. The other stress points are adjusted accordingly to come up with this alternate layam. I actually like the variatiion since the feel is a bit different and not prototypical like all the other T's desadi thala songs. It is a bit relaxed not having to be boxed in to that alternating "half-beat away" and "samam" prototype of the other such songs.
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
VK: I see what you mean - the Hyd Bros version does have a different feel to it. This seems to be a popular composition with numerous recordings available. I understand that Semmangudi has sung it in one of the DVDs that have been released recently. If you are aware of any instrumental (flute / veena) renditions, or other compositions in this raga, please do let me know.
More vocal samples -
R. Kaushik
http://www.esnips.com/doc/385b50a5-a744 ... i---Kesari
O.S.Thyagarajan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBHSWEEH9g
TMT, Vijay Siva, Sowmya
http://sangeethapriya.org/tributes/thya ... ithis.html
More vocal samples -
R. Kaushik
http://www.esnips.com/doc/385b50a5-a744 ... i---Kesari
O.S.Thyagarajan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBHSWEEH9g
TMT, Vijay Siva, Sowmya
http://sangeethapriya.org/tributes/thya ... ithis.html
-
- Posts: 1896
- Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
cml: kesari (janya of Mararanjani) employs the suddha dhaivata and suddha nishada (vivadi), while sindhu kannada (janya of Harikamboji) uses the chatursruti dhaivata and kaisiki nishada; Rangaramanuja Iyengar’s kritimanimalai has the notation for nannu kanna talli in kesari - this version incorporates the suddha nishada even in the ascent (p m d p n d s*). I don’t know if there are similar / identical ragas in HM.
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
VK: It would be different; wish it would be possible to hear this version of the raga and the composition sometime. Here is a more technical description of kesari - identical to that found in Dr. Bhagyalakshmi’s book on raga lakshanas http://www.indiamusicinfo.com/raga_today/kesari.html
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
Thanks Nandagopal. From that site...
"An ubhaya vakra shadava sampoorna raga derived from the 25th Mela Mararanjini. Ni is omitted in the arohana. Ekasvara vakra arohana raga. In arohana 2nd Pa is the vakra svara and in avarohana 1st Dha is the vakra svara. The notes taken by the raga besides Sa and Pa are Chatusruti Ri^ Antara Ga^ Sudha Dha and Sudha Ni. An apporva raga with only one known composition and a raga brought to prominence through the composition of Thygaraja."
I wish, having said this much, they put it in the name of the krithi. I assme it is the same one that we are talking about here.
Also, what do they mean by "In arohana 2nd Pa is the vakra svara and in avarohana 1st Dha is the vakra svara." ( 2nd Pa and 1st Dha as vakra? )
Is the Aro/Ava then like this, then?
S R2 G3 M1 P M1 P D1 S
S N1 D1 N1 D1 P M1 G3 R2 S ( or S N1 D1 P D1 P M1 G3 R2 S )
or something else.?
"An ubhaya vakra shadava sampoorna raga derived from the 25th Mela Mararanjini. Ni is omitted in the arohana. Ekasvara vakra arohana raga. In arohana 2nd Pa is the vakra svara and in avarohana 1st Dha is the vakra svara. The notes taken by the raga besides Sa and Pa are Chatusruti Ri^ Antara Ga^ Sudha Dha and Sudha Ni. An apporva raga with only one known composition and a raga brought to prominence through the composition of Thygaraja."
I wish, having said this much, they put it in the name of the krithi. I assme it is the same one that we are talking about here.
Also, what do they mean by "In arohana 2nd Pa is the vakra svara and in avarohana 1st Dha is the vakra svara." ( 2nd Pa and 1st Dha as vakra? )
Is the Aro/Ava then like this, then?
S R2 G3 M1 P M1 P D1 S
S N1 D1 N1 D1 P M1 G3 R2 S ( or S N1 D1 P D1 P M1 G3 R2 S )
or something else.?
-
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Thanks Nandagopal. That clarifies the raga lakshana. I would love to hear the aalaapana of Kesari as well as the rendition of the Thyagaraja kriti as it was originally meant. I thought the rendition of Hyd Bros was slightly different from the OST version where the vivaditvam was more patent. Would you agree? I could not however distinguish the individual swaras...
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
cmlover and vasantakokilam: i’m inclined to believe that sindhukannada and kesari are distinct melodic entities and it is unlikely that one of them morphed into the other. having said that, the arohana and avarohana of these ragas and the musical phrases that establish their identity remains moot. searching through different books or databases hasn’t clarified matters; for example, see what happens when you search this list with "kesari"
-
- Posts: 9944
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04
nandagOpalknandago2001 wrote: i’m inclined to believe that sindhukannada and kesari are distinct melodic entities and it is unlikely that one of them morphed into the other.
If possible since you say it is very distinct melodic entity , can you put one recording of each , so that we get the lakshya feel. This sindhukannada vs kEari debate was there long time back for a manakkAl rangarAjan concert@SKGS , where manakkAl sriram put his dads opinion.
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
-
- Posts: 9944
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 08:04
See in the link threadknandago2001 wrote:rajesh: all the audio links posted should give you a flavor for sindhukannda; what is lacking is a clip for kesari (listed as janya of mararanjani). i wasn't aware of a prior debate with regard to these ragas at the SKGS. if you remember, will you kindly let us know what transpired.. thanks
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... h2007.html
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
rajesh: thanks for that link. we have a composition by annamacharya in this raga
vandeham jagat vallabham - sindhukannada - Bombay Sisters
http://www.raaga.com/channels/carnatic/ ... id=CL00423
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/c ... /thalam.6/
vandeham jagat vallabham - sindhukannada - Bombay Sisters
http://www.raaga.com/channels/carnatic/ ... id=CL00423
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/music/c ... /thalam.6/
-
- Posts: 1896
- Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
r-t, there is some similarity.
I see two different Aro/Ava for sindu kannaDa
S M1 G3 M1 R2 G3 M1 P D2 P S - S N2 D2 P M1 G3 R2 S
S M1 G3 M1 P S - S N2 D2 P M1 G3 R2 S
Navarasa Kannada ( or navarasa kAnaDa ? )
S G3 M1 P S - S N2 D2 M1 G3 R2 S
So we can see some similarity with that catchy M G M P S S N D in both.
NK has that nice 'D M' which provides that distinguishing feel especially in mandhra sthayi ( as in S N D M and S N D M G P S )
I see two different Aro/Ava for sindu kannaDa
S M1 G3 M1 R2 G3 M1 P D2 P S - S N2 D2 P M1 G3 R2 S
S M1 G3 M1 P S - S N2 D2 P M1 G3 R2 S
Navarasa Kannada ( or navarasa kAnaDa ? )
S G3 M1 P S - S N2 D2 M1 G3 R2 S
So we can see some similarity with that catchy M G M P S S N D in both.
NK has that nice 'D M' which provides that distinguishing feel especially in mandhra sthayi ( as in S N D M and S N D M G P S )
-
- Posts: 1896
- Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
that is a typo - it is G3 - here is a sample of the janaka raga; another rare composition of Tyagaraja!
gives a good feel for the swarasthanas and a better idea of how kesari might sound
mararanjani raga alapana - Sriram Kannan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJQxktmb ... re=related
Manasa sri ramuni - Mararanjani - Sriram Kannan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=764SMulyUw8
just the notes - sans gamakas
http://www.carnaticindia.com/melakartha_ragas.html (audio)
http://pianoencyclopedia.com/piano/scal ... cale-chart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mararanjani_scale.svg
gives a good feel for the swarasthanas and a better idea of how kesari might sound
mararanjani raga alapana - Sriram Kannan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJQxktmb ... re=related
Manasa sri ramuni - Mararanjani - Sriram Kannan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=764SMulyUw8
just the notes - sans gamakas
http://www.carnaticindia.com/melakartha_ragas.html (audio)
http://pianoencyclopedia.com/piano/scal ... cale-chart
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mararanjani_scale.svg
Last edited by knandago2001 on 24 Jan 2010, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
-
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
-
- Posts: 10956
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
cmlover and vasantakokilam: thank you for your kind words of encouragement. i’m still in the process of internalizing the nuances of kesari and sindhukannada and have been studying Tyagaraja’s composition in greater detail. the notation given in the kritimanimalai may help discern how the vakra sancharas have been handled by Tyagaraja; http://www.badongo.com/pic/8518739 would be awesome if a rasika has a recording of kesari to share..
-
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Thanks for the notations. It looks promising and perhaps popularize Kesari the way Thyagarja envisioned. Also it will liberate sindhu kannada from the bondage of navarasa kannada which is clearly heard in all the current expositions. Good luck in your efforts..
Even arasi may be tempted later to render a composition in Kesari to break the bane of ekakriti raga!
Even arasi may be tempted later to render a composition in Kesari to break the bane of ekakriti raga!
-
- Posts: 16802
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
-
- Posts: 645
- Joined: 05 Sep 2006, 10:09
-
- Posts: 2056
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 07:12
-
- Posts: 2056
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 07:12
post34 . Enjoy a staeaming plate of kesari clandestinely and swallow one more pillof insulin rerlated medicine gobialitha
I think the clandestine kesari has affected my eye. I have missed' the letter'l' inmy name GOBILALITHA
I think the clandestine kesari has affected my eye. I have missed' the letter'l' inmy name GOBILALITHA
Last edited by gobilalitha on 29 Jan 2010, 11:40, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 4073
- Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16
Re: Sindhu Kanada
Just do another thread does not get diverted - posting a cross link here:
viewtopic.php?p=371183#p371183
Raga seems to be an allied Raga with dvijAvanti.
viewtopic.php?p=371183#p371183
Raga seems to be an allied Raga with dvijAvanti.
-
- Posts: 130
- Joined: 01 Nov 2019, 17:38
Re: Sindhu Kanada
Dwijavanthi to me always seems to show shades of a plethora of other ragams. Personally I feel Dwijavanthi is closest to modern Sahana (Sahana with G3 and not the old one with G2).
Could you please elaborate, and tell us exactly how you found Dwijavanthi and Sindhu Kannada to be allied?
Could you please elaborate, and tell us exactly how you found Dwijavanthi and Sindhu Kannada to be allied?
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 28 Jan 2021, 21:40
Re: Sindhu Kanada
Here is a Kesari version of the kriti 'nannu kanna thalli'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VuT-g7zFLs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VuT-g7zFLs
-
- Posts: 4073
- Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16
Re: Sindhu Kanada
#44 SrI Suddha daivata priyA and vIra dikshitarIyA
- https://youtu.be/W--sdAI-fmY?t=2283 & the explanation: https://youtu.be/W--sdAI-fmY?t=2318
I don't quite see the morbidity that I see even in mAra vairi ramaNi :
http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... amani.html
with references to demonic elephants or elephantine demons
in the sindhu kannada kriti: http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... halli.html
It seems benign compared to mAnavati (connected to tATaka vadam - killing of a female through pillayar (elephant) piDikka kurangAyiTRE (monkey) predicament!). : http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... lpudu.html
I can understand mAyE tvam yAhi ( back to taragiNi ) where Suddha daivatam might have played a role in bhIbhatsa rasam of asking mAyE to leave if it was indeed to do with remedy for measles!
But here? Your thoughts?
P:S: @Ranganayaki : CM has some dark stuff hidden and rAgas employed for it too!
- https://youtu.be/W--sdAI-fmY?t=2283 & the explanation: https://youtu.be/W--sdAI-fmY?t=2318
I don't quite see the morbidity that I see even in mAra vairi ramaNi :
http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... amani.html
with references to demonic elephants or elephantine demons
in the sindhu kannada kriti: http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... halli.html
It seems benign compared to mAnavati (connected to tATaka vadam - killing of a female through pillayar (elephant) piDikka kurangAyiTRE (monkey) predicament!). : http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... lpudu.html
I can understand mAyE tvam yAhi ( back to taragiNi ) where Suddha daivatam might have played a role in bhIbhatsa rasam of asking mAyE to leave if it was indeed to do with remedy for measles!
But here? Your thoughts?
P:S: @Ranganayaki : CM has some dark stuff hidden and rAgas employed for it too!
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 28 Jan 2021, 21:40
Re: Sindhu Kanada
It is my opinion that our thoughts or opinions are not be transposed on the creativity of a composer. I also apply this to present-day musicians. Frequently we hear rasikas saying 'intha vidvan bhAvamavE padardhilla'. I cannot accept this. What is bhAvam? Are we reacting similarly to all emotions? In such a case, how can we expect musicians to match the bhava that we perceive?
Apply this to a vaggeyakara. How can we equate the emotions that we perceive with that of a vaggeyakara while listening to a particular raga? Ragas have changed as also the method of rendering them. If every raga is going to evoke a same emotion, why should Svamigal compose 'ilalo pranatartihara' and 'e papamu jesithira' in the same raga?
In this case, seriously I am not feeling the rasa bhIbatsa while listening to Manavati. In such a case, every raga with suddha rishaba and suddha gandhara should evoke this rasa. Can we give a generalized statement like that? This is highly subjective and what she had expressed is strictly to be taken as her opinion.
Also, I am puzzled to see this kriti linked with Tataka vadham. How is it related?
Apply this to a vaggeyakara. How can we equate the emotions that we perceive with that of a vaggeyakara while listening to a particular raga? Ragas have changed as also the method of rendering them. If every raga is going to evoke a same emotion, why should Svamigal compose 'ilalo pranatartihara' and 'e papamu jesithira' in the same raga?
In this case, seriously I am not feeling the rasa bhIbatsa while listening to Manavati. In such a case, every raga with suddha rishaba and suddha gandhara should evoke this rasa. Can we give a generalized statement like that? This is highly subjective and what she had expressed is strictly to be taken as her opinion.
Also, I am puzzled to see this kriti linked with Tataka vadham. How is it related?
-
- Posts: 4073
- Joined: 15 Jun 2009, 07:16
Re: Sindhu Kanada
Last one first: tATaka vadam is bibhatsa and the kriti evaritO nE telpudunu seperately invoked bibhatsa using the said metaphor, and the narrator linked the two. There is no direct mention of the event. The dilemma or conflict or predicament between the actual story and the metaphor is used to link the two.
In another case (nAsikAbhUShaNi) it is not coincidental that the pada "vairi" for enemy exactly happens using the vivadi svaras in vivadi fashion in mAra vairi - remember the terms iNai (samvAdi / friendly) and pahai (vivadi / enemetic) for notes in tamizh isai.
Horror movies or such scenes in movies have used dissonant notes! That is well known and this has universally percolated into pre-post-modern times. And movies themselves have adopted a sense of appropriateness of music to the scene in uniform ways.
And SrI tyAgarAja does mention navarasa in sogasugA mRdanga tALamu, so rasa handling in tradition follows the patterns laid out in theory. It may well be part of lakshaNa itself. At least this method of deduction is standard in historiography, using available evidence - correct?
Recently it was pointed out by NSG, and may be this is well known but I haven't noticed/thought about it, the SanaiScara kriti divAkara tanujam is in a slow moving rAga, by the very nature of the rAga itself, YK , to indicate the slow moving planet of Saturn. Doesn't mean all cauka kritis then indicate or convey some sense of slowness - does it? But here the rAgA phrases themselves are slow.
As to whether an actual rasika is moved by a certain rasa on a particular day depends on several factors internal and external and how much cultural sync. is there in that person, but that doesn't take away the opinionated proposal from the SAstras. Same person may react differently at different times and actual effect may be a combination of rasas or rank insensitivity to any bhava.
We should not resort to anthropological analysis of actual peoples/groups when discussing tradition, since the latter is handed down along with everything we consider as "Music" as well. It can be argued to be part of music. We are biased by democracy and people's opinions/reactions etc. That is irrelevant here.
We see the patterns actually there especially with vivAdi - two examples from SrI tyAgarAja himself. As to whether every occurrence of Suddha rishabha and Suddha gAndhara is to be considered bibhatsa, it depends on the handling of them. In rakti / gana rAgas like varALi the effect of vivadi is mitigated by vakra and approach to the svara itself. vAgadheeswari without vakra - the approach is with a jAru.
Now to the vidvan question: the judgment of a vidvAn vis-a-vis bhAva is a cultural judgement and the sense of traditional music as a practice includes the cultural aspects like how a bhAva is treated in a tradition.
If it is modern art, things can get abstract and a mix of colors splashed on a canvas becomes art. "aLLit teLittatellAm kalai enRAhiviTTadu"
In another case (nAsikAbhUShaNi) it is not coincidental that the pada "vairi" for enemy exactly happens using the vivadi svaras in vivadi fashion in mAra vairi - remember the terms iNai (samvAdi / friendly) and pahai (vivadi / enemetic) for notes in tamizh isai.
Horror movies or such scenes in movies have used dissonant notes! That is well known and this has universally percolated into pre-post-modern times. And movies themselves have adopted a sense of appropriateness of music to the scene in uniform ways.
And SrI tyAgarAja does mention navarasa in sogasugA mRdanga tALamu, so rasa handling in tradition follows the patterns laid out in theory. It may well be part of lakshaNa itself. At least this method of deduction is standard in historiography, using available evidence - correct?
Recently it was pointed out by NSG, and may be this is well known but I haven't noticed/thought about it, the SanaiScara kriti divAkara tanujam is in a slow moving rAga, by the very nature of the rAga itself, YK , to indicate the slow moving planet of Saturn. Doesn't mean all cauka kritis then indicate or convey some sense of slowness - does it? But here the rAgA phrases themselves are slow.
As to whether an actual rasika is moved by a certain rasa on a particular day depends on several factors internal and external and how much cultural sync. is there in that person, but that doesn't take away the opinionated proposal from the SAstras. Same person may react differently at different times and actual effect may be a combination of rasas or rank insensitivity to any bhava.
We should not resort to anthropological analysis of actual peoples/groups when discussing tradition, since the latter is handed down along with everything we consider as "Music" as well. It can be argued to be part of music. We are biased by democracy and people's opinions/reactions etc. That is irrelevant here.
We see the patterns actually there especially with vivAdi - two examples from SrI tyAgarAja himself. As to whether every occurrence of Suddha rishabha and Suddha gAndhara is to be considered bibhatsa, it depends on the handling of them. In rakti / gana rAgas like varALi the effect of vivadi is mitigated by vakra and approach to the svara itself. vAgadheeswari without vakra - the approach is with a jAru.
Now to the vidvan question: the judgment of a vidvAn vis-a-vis bhAva is a cultural judgement and the sense of traditional music as a practice includes the cultural aspects like how a bhAva is treated in a tradition.
If it is modern art, things can get abstract and a mix of colors splashed on a canvas becomes art. "aLLit teLittatellAm kalai enRAhiviTTadu"
-
- Posts: 3427
- Joined: 11 Oct 2015, 23:31
Re: Sindhu Kanada
p-46
HM assigns some emotions to specific ragas. and even time of the day . Not applicable to CM.
Emotions evoked by a raga , ( without the associated lyrics and theme) as in raga elaboration either vocal or by instrument.. ...are they entirely subjective? May not be. All the musical compositions of Thyagaraja Swami , based on Todi and its janya ragams, seem to be connected with a special feeling - which cannot be related to common emotions. especially rendered in slow speed.
MayamaaLavaGowLa and its derived ragams also are of special emotive appeal.
What is felt by the listener, through an instrumental rendition or raga elaboration in HM style or without knowing the language of the lyrics and the theme,... is the correct yardstick.
Thyagaraja Swami has used the same raga for kruthis with different theme and message .May be because, many ragams in CM are not too strictly tied to any common emotion.
Yet, if we consider about 500 of his commonly sung and popular kruthis, I found that they are all in non-vivadi scales and M1 group
We cannot read too much into exceptions. in the compositions of the Trinity.
HM assigns some emotions to specific ragas. and even time of the day . Not applicable to CM.
Emotions evoked by a raga , ( without the associated lyrics and theme) as in raga elaboration either vocal or by instrument.. ...are they entirely subjective? May not be. All the musical compositions of Thyagaraja Swami , based on Todi and its janya ragams, seem to be connected with a special feeling - which cannot be related to common emotions. especially rendered in slow speed.
MayamaaLavaGowLa and its derived ragams also are of special emotive appeal.
What is felt by the listener, through an instrumental rendition or raga elaboration in HM style or without knowing the language of the lyrics and the theme,... is the correct yardstick.
Thyagaraja Swami has used the same raga for kruthis with different theme and message .May be because, many ragams in CM are not too strictly tied to any common emotion.
Yet, if we consider about 500 of his commonly sung and popular kruthis, I found that they are all in non-vivadi scales and M1 group
We cannot read too much into exceptions. in the compositions of the Trinity.
-
- Posts: 80
- Joined: 28 Jan 2021, 21:40
Re: Sindhu Kanada
I wish to differ. When you read Srimad Ramayana of Valmiki, the description of Tataka evokes bayanaka rasa (at least to me) and Rama's valour is very much described in Tataka vadham, placing it under vIra rasa. So, the perception differs. You can listen to the discourse. That doesn't mean you must agree to all the subjective elements.tATaka vadam is bibhatsa and the kriti evaritO nE telpudunu seperately
I definitely agree Valmiki's Ramayana is replete with navarasa. At the same time, classifying the events based on the rasa, at times is subjective.
Nice that you have brought this point. YK is not a slow-paced raga, neither the mentioned kriti. We have established an identity to raga and sincerely this norm is followed.Recently it was pointed out by NSG, and may be this is well known but I haven't noticed/thought about it, the SanaiScara kriti divAkara tanujam is in a slow moving rAga, by the very nature of the rAga itself, YK , to indicate the slow moving planet of Saturn.
Any raga can be manipulated to the need of a composer. But the composer has to be knowledgeable and wise. This gives multiple hues to a raga. Certainly, this element is missing in many of the recently tuned kritis.
YK has been handled in a much faster manner (than many of the current renditions) by musicians like GNB. The same can be noticed with Manji and Kaanada. Nowadays, we hear only slow renditions in this raga. Another raga that falls into this category is Nilambari. Exaggerated kampita gamaka employed in these ragas may be attributed as one of the reason.
Not at all. Divakara tanujam, if rendered as prescribed by Sri Subbarama Diksitar swings between rendunkettan kaalam to slightly brisk pace (than what is heard now). This can be seen in the kriti 'parthasarathi' of SuRa too.But here the rAgA phrases themselves are slow.
Here is a beautiful rendition of this kriti:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDsDLyudWQE
This can be anywhere graded between rendumkettan or slightly brisk (than other kritis in this raga).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwJx8g_seSo
Here is the version, as prescribed by Subbarama Diksitar, presented within my capacity. Again it can be placed in either of the category mentioned above.
The reason for this pace is not due to the liberty taken by the singer; rather it is due to the phrases employed by the composer.
We are not disputing the existence of navarasas or any other topic pertaining to sastra. We are dealing with the perception of navarasas by different individuals with varied mindsets. When both of us can differ in interpreting the rasa of a solitary event, why not others differ? You cannot compel others to interpret in the same way as you do. This is dealing with emotions and not with a theorum.We should not resort to anthropological analysis of actual peoples/groups when discussing tradition,
Varali is no more a strict vivadhi raga. The vivadhi svara of Vagadisvari need not be always approached with a jaru (here the vivadhi said to evoke bIbatsa is not used. Hence this is not a good example). Using a gamaka is up to a composer and when he has not notated his gamakas, it is up to the musician who renders the kriti. Can you prove Tyagaraja Svamigal has used jaru in Vagadisvari to approach the vivadhi svara shatsruti rishabha?Suddha gAndhara is to be considered bibhatsa, it depends on the handling of them. In rakti / gana rAgas like varALi the effect of vivadi is mitigated by vakra and approach to the svara itself. vAgadheeswari without vakra - the approach is with a jAru.
When you take the ragas taking suddha gandara and suddha rishaba, the phrases don't differ much (I am talking about melakartas and not ragangas. Second, I am considering only these two svaras). In such a case, every other raga must evoke the same rasa. Is that happening?
To summarise, it is not wise to impose our emotions on others. Our music has changed. The ragas, gamakas and the way of rendering have changed. A composition or a raga has to be approached keeping these in mind.
P.S I have clearly placed my points. In case you find difficulty in understanding, please let me know. At the same time, please try to avoid reiterating the mentioned point again.
-
- Posts: 1760
- Joined: 02 Jan 2011, 06:23
Re: Sindhu Kanada
I hadn’t participated in this thread, is this a reference to what I wrote in the TMK knowledge-sharing thread?shankarank wrote: ↑06 May 2021, 08:49
P:S: @Ranganayaki : CM has some dark stuff hidden and rAgas employed for it too!
Pl give me an example of hidden darkness.. ragas employed for any thème don’t bother me. I wouLD appreciate the versatility.