Bombay Jayashri on 31/01/10 at Gayana Samaj, Bangalore

squims · Post by **squims** » 31 Jan 2010, 23:38

Vocal - Bombay Jayashri Ramanath
Violin - H.N.Bhaskar
Mridangam - Patri Satish Kumar
Kanjari - (?)

1. Jaya Jaya (RS) - Natta - Adi
2. Tulasamma - Devagandhari - Adi
3. Bhuvaneshwariya (RS) - Mohana Kalyani - Adi
4. Dharini telusu - Suddha Saveri - Adi
5. Shankari Neeve (RNS) - Begada - Rupakam
6. Emijesithenemi Sri Rama (RST) - Todi - Misra Chapu
7. RTP - Kaapi and Behag, swara vistaram during pallavi in Hindolam, Malayamarutham and Hamsanandhi(I might be mistaken about these, they were sung in very quick succession)
Pallavi line: Varada Varavenkata Ramana Varava Bhaya Nivarana
8. Aalokaye - ?
9. Tillana - Desh - Adi
10. Pavamana sutudu (mangalam) - sourashtram - Adi

It was a wonderful concert. One of Jayashri's best. Her Mohana Kalyani and ragam, neraval(I do not remember the sahityam of the neraval line), and swaram for Shankari Neeve were wonderful. Very soothing. The Todi aalapanai was superb. I just closed my eyes and let the beautiful music wash over me. Excellent support from H.N. Bhaskar as well. She did not sing a neraval in Todi, which was surprising. But the swara vistaram was done really well. Still wish it were longer though. The thani was amazing. Patri Satish Kumar was amazing as always. Was pleasantly surprised by the Kanjari artist ( I'm so sorry I do not remember his name now). The RTP in Kaapi and Behag was very innovative. Immensely enjoyable. Ended with a tillana in Desh(I guess it was a Lalgudi composition) and the short mangalam in sourashtram. I enjoyed every minute of the concert and from the tremendous applause that she received, so did everyone else in the hall.

P.S. An annoying thing that happens during all kutcheris is that half the crowd seems to consider the thani some kind of intermission. They walk out when the thani starts and come back only once it's over, or others don't even return to listen to the rest of the concert. I don't understand this!

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 01 Feb 2010, 11:55

For many people the vocal or main instruments (violin, veena flute) etc is only music but the tani avartanam is not.
In a good concert where the vocalist or main insturmentalist had sung/played very well then if much of the audience is asked whether they want taniavartanam or whether the vocal artiste can continue most of them would say that 'no need for tani', let the vocalist continue to sing (we can hear 3-4 more thukkadas).

Personally i also feel that taniavartanam is mostly boring (not to offend anyone) but for the end part (sawaal jawaab etc). But we have to appreciate these facts before blaming audience for the tani exodus -

1. some people may have come from very far so they might be compelled to leave
2. Old people and children cannot sit for long time and they may want to refresh themselves and since they donot want to miss the songs they decide to move out during tani
3. Vocal music or instrumental music appeals to both knowledgable and layman audience but the tani is very technical and most people in the audience may not understand the talam or the expertise or talents of the tani players so when u donot understand something u can easily move out
4. There will be an argument that generally in foreign countries the audience have the courtesy and right attitude to sit through the entire concert whether they understand it or not (but isn't that pretence and 'sitting with teeth clenched' attitude)
5. why we can't give the freedom to the people to just attend the concert and hear what they like and not hear what they donot like !! Is it so hard - hope all will agree if something is good / interesting / appealing then everyone would want to listen to it !!

THERE ARE SO MANY LEC-DEMS AND EDUCATION SESSIONS ON VOCAL MUSIC TOPICS, COMPOSERS TOPICS AND SO MANY OTHER TOPICS BUT
WHY THERE IS NO LEC-DEM ON THIS TALAM BASICS AND HOW TANI INSTRUMENTALISTS PLAY FOR DIFF TALAMS, AND NUANCES OF TANI AND NEED FOR TANI ETC - IF THR ARE MORE SESSIONS LIKE THESE THEN AUDIENCE MAY BE ABLE TO APPRECIATE THE TALENTS OF TANI PLAYERS TOO

Have always wondered at the end of tani how the violinist and the vocalist realise when to start singing.

Also there are many people in the audience who desperately wait for the violinist to pick up the violin as an indication that " appaadaa ! nalla velai tani mudia poradhu" with a sigh of relief

I fully understand that my above statements may annoy many members but i feel i have not said any untruth

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 01 Feb 2010, 12:09

Then why do you want a mridangam accompaniment or any other percussions !!
Why dont you attempt to change that. Just a solo music - Will that keep audience glued!

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 01 Feb 2010, 13:02

u statement sounds like blackmail Mr musicfan_4201

Obviously the audience will prefer a concert with accompaniments than one without.

Undoubtedly the accompanists enhance the listening effect of the concert - i salute them all for their contribution there but when they play alone they may not be relished by all and there is no point in making someone sit thorugh that by force or by implying ethics or courtesy etc - i donot think it's necessary.

If u r saying that because u need the accompanists for the entire concert u tolerate them for 20 min also then let me tell u clearly ' i will not have it'.
Ur argument clearly establishes the fact the u need to put pressure and force to make the audience sit through the tani. There is no point in doing so because such a forced attendance will only be a pain and not at all be relished.

Even the tambura artist is maintaining the sruthi for entire 3 hours - are u going to give him also chance for 20 mins

Tomato ketchup is necssary for some to have noodles but u can't deny that noodles can be had without tomato ketchup also but will one have tomato ketchup on it's own and that too when noodles is readily available !!

The peel is important for the banana, it protects it and helps to keep it fresh but when it comes to eating the banana we donot eat the peel - do we ??

Our concerts we mainly attend for bhakti rasa - the vocal music and instrumental music do produce that rasa and hence have won audience popularity but i donot think in the tani there is any bhakthi rasa ?? Is it there please educate me!!

Having said all this i still maintain the fact that one is unable to appreciate only because of ignorance !! So donot force anyone to sit through but keeping knife at their throat !! Again if people get up and go during thani why we shd be annoyed - the musicians are still playing naa - continue to enjoy it - y shd we be bothered abt the others who are leaving!!

I think in our kutchery throughout people keep coming in and getting up and going out etc !! If one must be affected by that then one has to be angry throughout the concert !!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Feb 2010, 13:10

Harishankar.. Clever arguments.

The problem is when each member of the audience decides to walk in and out depending on what they like or dislike causing discomfort to the others who are enjoying the concert. There is such a thing as concert etiquette which is different from when you are listening to the radio in your home.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 01 Feb 2010, 13:17

That has to be borne - we have to accept it - we can curb people's freedom at the expense of maintaing concert ettiquete.
Hope ettiquete is affected only if someone disturbs the proceedings of the concert and not when one leaves when one has to.

There are so many little children and others running about in concerts or giving chits / request etc - are they not disturbing - does that not affect concert ettiqute

My guru has taught me that when u find abhaswaram or someone not singing properly clear out immediately - so r u saying that even if the artiste is not singing well - for ettiquette's sake bite ur teeth and stay there

I sincerely advise no one to do that - i think it is not necessary !!

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 01 Feb 2010, 13:54

Harishankar,
concert etiquette that suresh vv has referred, he is bang on!
It is more of a habit of kutcheri goers to make a mass exodus the moment thaniavarthanam starts. One can argue that the thani does not interest the audience much. But I have seen this happening even for the greats like Karaikudi Mani, UKS and the like performing. It is just the indifference on the part of the audience. Audience coming from long distance, commuting problems etc - may be genuine but it is more an excuse to leave the hall.

I dont think you can afford to do it in a western classical concert or an opera!!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Feb 2010, 14:16

HarishankarK wrote:That has to be borne - we have to accept it - we can curb people's freedom at the expense of maintaing concert ettiquete.
Hope ettiquete is affected only if someone disturbs the proceedings of the concert and not when one leaves when one has to.

Thank you for conceding that. As for disturbing when leaving the concert, that depends on where you sit and how you leave.

There are so many little children and others running about in concerts or giving chits / request etc - are they not disturbing - does that not affect concert ettiqute

So you want to act like them?

My guru has taught me that when u find abhaswaram or someone not singing properly clear out immediately - so r u saying that even if the artiste is not singing well - for ettiquette's sake bite ur teeth and stay there

I sincerely advise no one to do that - i think it is not necessary !!

Sorry to say but bad teaching from your Guru. Do NOT leave in the middle of a song or thani. Wait for a break in the proceedings. Better yet, make a mental note of this artiste and do not attend their concert again.

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 01 Feb 2010, 14:16

Two threads on tani exodus where we discussed a lot:
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... anams.html
http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... thani.html

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 01 Feb 2010, 14:29

squims wrote: 8. Aalokaye - ?

aalOkayE sakhi bAlakrishnam - nArayana Theerthar (from krishna leela tharangini).

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 01 Feb 2010, 15:15

HarishankarK wrote: Having said all this i still maintain the fact that one is unable to appreciate only because of ignorance !! So donot force anyone to sit through but keeping knife at their throat !! Again if people get up and go during thani why we shd be annoyed - the musicians are still playing naa - continue to enjoy it - y shd we be bothered abt the others who are leaving!!
!!

How many people who attend concerts understand the raga alapana or the kruthi or the swarams?
How many are able to identify ragas?
Lack of knowledge / ignorance does not justify an exodus. If one is serious, he / she should make an attempt to understand and appreciate.
Who said the musicians are not annoyed. Ofcourse they are but they are helpless due to the moronish attitude of the audience.
My friend your justifications / logic is absurd!

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 01 Feb 2010, 16:27

It happened in one concert in southern part of india ... when one artiste was giving lecture demonstration about Carnatic Music and after the lec-dem the floor was thrown open and one man who obviously wanted to demean the artiste's caliber asked "Why do you sing Telugu or Sanskrit compositions in Tamil Nadu and that too in this vague southern most part of Tamil Nadu which we dont understand at all ?" So long for all these questions the vocal artiste was answering . For this particular question the mridangist took the mike and asked : "Can you tell me what is this and can you understand what is this ? and started reciting "Kaadi Modi VaaDaadu nool katriduvorum kaasu thedi eeyamal vaazha peruvorum" an Arunagiri Nathar Thiruppugazh and asked the man who questioned to give its meaning immediately.

The whole audience fell into silence and immediately the organiser came to the rescue and said "Music has no language" in the same way rhythm has no language. If anyone can appreciate the ragha bhava with lyrics they should also be able to appreciate the rhthmic varieties with syllables.

Only the music should transcend and not the musicians.

J.Balaji

vganesh · Post by **vganesh** » 01 Feb 2010, 16:43

Have always wondered at the end of tani how the violinist and the vocalist realise when to start singing.

Please look into this thread.

http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php? ... hanam.html

mridhangam · Post by **mridhangam** » 01 Feb 2010, 17:13

HarishankarK wrote:WHY THERE IS NO LEC-DEM ON THIS TALAM BASICS AND HOW TANI INSTRUMENTALISTS PLAY FOR DIFF TALAMS, AND NUANCES OF TANI AND NEED FOR TANI ETC - IF THR ARE MORE SESSIONS LIKE THESE THEN AUDIENCE MAY BE ABLE TO APPRECIATE THE TALENTS OF TANI PLAYERS TOO

hahah angayum naanga thaniya thaan irukkom enna pannaradu ?

the attendance is thin ...

J.Balaji

karthikbala · Post by **karthikbala** » 01 Feb 2010, 17:14

musicfan_4201 wrote:Harishankar,
concert etiquette that suresh vv has referred, he is bang on!
It is more of a habit of kutcheri goers to make a mass exodus the moment thaniavarthanam starts. One can argue that the thani does not interest the audience much. But I have seen this happening even for the greats like Karaikudi Mani, UKS and the like performing. It is just the indifference on the part of the audience. Audience coming from long distance, commuting problems etc - may be genuine but it is more an excuse to leave the hall.

I dont think you can afford to do it in a western classical concert or an opera!!

Yes, in opera performances, one is seated by the ushers only during intermissions. Once the curtain goes up, you have to wait till there is an intermission/ scene-change. Opera goers generally maintain decorum as far as leaving in the middle goes... However I don't think the comparison with CM is apt. In CM, the concert has (littered with?) plenty of disparate items. So, there are sufficient opportunities to make an exit. In opera, there is a single ongoing story and periodically a buildup to an aria/climax and quite understandably people are going to be pissed off if you squeeze past them right at some climactic juncture.

Secondly, good opera seats cost around $150-$200. People take a performance more seriously, dress better, have more respect for the (highly paid) performers who are also on stage invariably by dint of exceptional ability. The expenditure on talent-scouting alone of say, the Met is probably greater than combined budgets of many of our sabhas put together. In CM, as long as you have two-bit sabhas on every other Madras street, "thenga-moodi" kutcheris, and rank amateurs masquerading as concert-worthy performers, why expect any different? Just as water finds its own level, these things are largely self-adjusting...

It is worth noting, that in the 19th century, when there were a large number of opera houses of varying quality, the loggionisti (gallery crowd) in Italian houses would react to bad performances by chucking peel, fruit cores, and anything else handy. Maybe CM crowd behaviour will get worse before it gets better?

mageshsai · Post by **mageshsai** » 01 Feb 2010, 18:06

I have covered this kutcheri but for the musicality of it in tamil.

http://vurathasindanai.blogspot.com/201 ... -post.html

@HarishankarK: People may not be knowledgeble to understand tani but should try to. We can empteen reasons but the gesture of the people moving out is that 'Oh its not worth listening to'. My view is that people should come prepared to sit through the entire kutcheri. We goto a movie and sit there without coming out except for the intermission and for unavaidable reason. But have you ever seen half of the crowd moving out of the theatre even though the film is worst? Because we go there prepared to watch entire movie, isn't it? Considering the aged people organizors may plan to introduce one break.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 01 Feb 2010, 21:54

HarishankarK,

All your points listed are very valid.

Most hindustani concerts have a break in the middle. That will solve some problem but aggrevate the problem
of further delay in reaching home. May be ideal time for concerts to start is 5PM.
I normally cannot sit through thani and leave the auditoriam once the main is over unless I know there is an
indication of RTP. One of the reason is the long disance. And neither tukkada nor thani is of interest to me.

I think the general rule for audience (as always mentioned by TMK) is make your moves during the gap between
songs. And After having sat through the entire concert, donot run during mangalam.

Most people come for main artist. And it is up to them to sit through Tani.

squims · Post by **squims** » 01 Feb 2010, 23:10

Oh wow! I never thought my remark about the crowd behaviour during thani would spark a debate! Glad to see both sides of the argument though.

I think the general rule for audience (as always mentioned by TMK) is make your moves during the gap between
songs. And After having sat through the entire concert, donot run during mangalam.

I attended TMK's concert today. And people started moving as soon as he began 'Pavamana sutudu' and he stopped to say 'innum 30 seconds vokkara mudiyada? please sit down.' And people obliged, thank goodness!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 01 Feb 2010, 23:12

What happens in movie theatres when at the end National Anthem is played?

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 02 Feb 2010, 04:31

I think, in movie theatres, nowadays, the National Anthem is played at beginning itself.
Pl. do not ask me if 'pavamAna' can be sung at the beginning of the cutcheri!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 02 Feb 2010, 09:55

Punarvasu wrote:I think, in movie theatres, nowadays, the National Anthem is played at beginning itself.
Pl. do not ask me if 'pavamAna' can be sung at the beginning of the cutcheri!

Yes it is played in the begining and everyone stands up, atleast that is the mutiplex culture.
Now anthem has ARR, Asha, Latha, SPB, DKP...many more hindustani so it is evry nice to listen too
apart from the patriotic feeling.

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 02 Feb 2010, 10:01

squims wrote:Oh wow! I never thought my remark about the crowd behaviour during thani would spark a debate! Glad to see both sides of the argument though.

I think the general rule for audience (as always mentioned by TMK) is make your moves during the gap between
songs. And After having sat through the entire concert, donot run during mangalam.
I attended TMK's concert today. And people started moving as soon as he began 'Pavamana sutudu' and he stopped to say 'innum 30 seconds vokkara mudiyada? please sit down.' And people obliged, thank goodness!

He is very popular for this particular disiplining. In fact many usual concert
goers know this and keep telling their friends during mangalam. This kind of
disiplining efforts need to be appreciated.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 02 Feb 2010, 10:01

I have heard my grandmother saying that everyone should stand for the mangalam, with hands folded (just as one would during mangala arathi or karpoora arathi in a temple), and wait till it is over before moving out.
This tradition, I guess is totally out of date, being about 100 years old. But I thought, it is yet another angle to the discussion!

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 02 Feb 2010, 11:24

musicfan_4201 wrote:
HarishankarK wrote: Having said all this i still maintain the fact that one is unable to appreciate only because of ignorance !! So donot force anyone to sit through but keeping knife at their throat !! Again if people get up and go during thani why we shd be annoyed - the musicians are still playing naa - continue to enjoy it - y shd we be bothered abt the others who are leaving!!
!!
How many people who attend concerts understand the raga alapana or the kruthi or the swarams?
How many are able to identify ragas?
Lack of knowledge / ignorance does not justify an exodus. If one is serious, he / she should make an attempt to understand and appreciate.
Who said the musicians are not annoyed. Ofcourse they are but they are helpless due to the moronish attitude of the audience.
My friend your justifications / logic is absurd!

All of my justifications are logical and the possible reasons for the exodus. I cannot help it if u want to be biased and deny them. There are others in this thread who have agreed that my views are not totally wrong.
Raga alapana and Swaras by and large have melody content in them so people donot mind sitting. But tani is not melodious i donot know what to call it but it's not just very interesting to all and why can't u just accept that my friend.
I have noticed many people getting up and leaving when the main raga is not that great. Some people leave when Todi /Bhairavi is the main raga but do sit for Mohanam or Kalyani - what are u going to do about that.
I donot think this discussion is getting anywhere - am just concerned about 1 thing - donot change the concert hall into a school pl - there is no need to be annoyed or dismayed when people leave from a concert during tani - just digest it that u like it they donot like it. Pray donot force them to sit in the concert or curse them for leaving - simply putting let's mind our own business and enjoy the concert on our own terms !! Live and let live my friends.

Am sure all those who are blaming others for getting up and going have certainly once or twice got up and gone similarly from concerts they were attending !!

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 02 Feb 2010, 11:34

mageshsai wrote:I have covered this kutcheri but for the musicality of it in tamil.

http://vurathasindanai.blogspot.com/201 ... -post.html

@HarishankarK: People may not be knowledgeble to understand tani but should try to. We can empteen reasons but the gesture of the people moving out is that 'Oh its not worth listening to'. My view is that people should come prepared to sit through the entire kutcheri. We goto a movie and sit there without coming out except for the intermission and for unavaidable reason. But have you ever seen half of the crowd moving out of the theatre even though the film is worst? Because we go there prepared to watch entire movie, isn't it? Considering the aged people organizors may plan to introduce one break.

The interval or break is a good idea but what is wrong even if one feels that tani is not worth listening to !! Everybody has a right to like or dislike, hear or not hear correct !
I donot often go to theatres but i have generally noticed that people do get out during the final climax song for a smoke or refreshing etc - this is my observation !! But i donot thing the producers or actors or fans etc are so concerned about it !!

Am not sure why a few people are so concerned when some leave the hall becuase of their own reasons

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 02 Feb 2010, 11:46

Harishankar,
Did i ever force you to stay during the thani?
Did I say I will try to correct concert goers who walk pout during the bhairavi / thodi alapana?
I just raised my views and accepting it or not is completely your prerogative!
There is a difference between people leaving a cinema theatre and people leaving an auditorium during in the midst of a performance. In a cinema theatre the performers are not there noticing the exodus. However, in a live performance (be it CM/.HM/Dance / Play) it creates a bit of a disturbance to others and it is a lind of dis-respect to the performers.
Take it or leave it.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 02 Feb 2010, 12:05

HarishankarK wrote:
Am not sure why a few people are so concerned when some leave the hall becuase of their own reasons

Just like I hope you would be concerned when you a see someone spitting or relieving themselves on the side of the road. The reasons are their own but the act certainly causes grief to the innocent bystander.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 02 Feb 2010, 12:10

sureshvv wrote:
HarishankarK wrote:
Am not sure why a few people are so concerned when some leave the hall becuase of their own reasons
Just like I hope you would be concerned when you a see someone spitting or relieving themselves on the side of the road. The reasons are their own but the act certainly causes grief to the innocent bystander.

Your examples donot match sir. Leaving a concert hall in the middle is in no way obscene or indecent as the examples u have quoted.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 02 Feb 2010, 12:11

musicfan_4201 wrote:Harishankar,
Did i ever force you to stay during the thani?
Did I say I will try to correct concert goers who walk pout during the bhairavi / thodi alapana?
I just raised my views and accepting it or not is completely your prerogative!
There is a difference between people leaving a cinema theatre and people leaving an auditorium during in the midst of a performance. In a cinema theatre the performers are not there noticing the exodus. However, in a live performance (be it CM/.HM/Dance / Play) it creates a bit of a disturbance to others and it is a lind of dis-respect to the performers.
Take it or leave it.

Just so i gave my views !
Great am happy that we have finally agreed and reconciled as to keeping the strength of our own views !!

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 02 Feb 2010, 12:50

HarishankarK wrote:
musicfan_4201 wrote:Harishankar,
Did i ever force you to stay during the thani?
Did I say I will try to correct concert goers who walk pout during the bhairavi / thodi alapana?
I just raised my views and accepting it or not is completely your prerogative!
There is a difference between people leaving a cinema theatre and people leaving an auditorium during in the midst of a performance. In a cinema theatre the performers are not there noticing the exodus. However, in a live performance (be it CM/.HM/Dance / Play) it creates a bit of a disturbance to others and it is a lind of dis-respect to the performers.
Take it or leave it.
Just so i gave my views !
Great am happy that we have finally agreed and reconciled as to keeping the strength of our own views !!

Nope I have not agreed with you.
It is just that you are not inclined to good reasoning!
Lets not waste time in debating further

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 02 Feb 2010, 13:04

musicfan_4201 wrote:Then why do you want a mridangam accompaniment or any other percussions !!
Why dont you attempt to change that. Just a solo music - Will that keep audience glued!

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 02 Feb 2010, 13:10

musicfan_4201 wrote:
HarishankarK wrote:
musicfan_4201 wrote:Harishankar,
Did i ever force you to stay during the thani?
Did I say I will try to correct concert goers who walk pout during the bhairavi / thodi alapana?
I just raised my views and accepting it or not is completely your prerogative!
There is a difference between people leaving a cinema theatre and people leaving an auditorium during in the midst of a performance. In a cinema theatre the performers are not there noticing the exodus. However, in a live performance (be it CM/.HM/Dance / Play) it creates a bit of a disturbance to others and it is a lind of dis-respect to the performers.
Take it or leave it.
Just so i gave my views !
Great am happy that we have finally agreed and reconciled as to keeping the strength of our own views !!
Nope I have not agreed with you.
It is just that you are not inclined to good reasoning!
Lets not waste time in debating further

I never said u agreed with me and donot expect also. All i mean't was that -good that we at least agree to disagree. Hope u cd not understand wht i wrote !!
Boss it's u who u is not able to accept the bitter truths and blame the audience for exiting. I am open to good reasoning but if u ask me to listen to something becuase u like it - will not do !!

I can say the same words for you and perhaps even more.
But you cannot deny the blunt fact that there are more takers for vocal/instrumental players and hardly any for tani player. But it's so funny that u have to finally resort to making personal remarks to win the argument. Please donot stoop so low.

Carnatakam · Post by **Carnatakam** » 02 Feb 2010, 13:18

Are the concerts in this series free or ticketed?Do we get to book in advance?

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 02 Feb 2010, 13:45

HarishankarK wrote:
musicfan_4201 wrote:
HarishankarK wrote:
Just so i gave my views !
Great am happy that we have finally agreed and reconciled as to keeping the strength of our own views !!
Nope I have not agreed with you.
It is just that you are not inclined to good reasoning!
Lets not waste time in debating further
I never said u agreed with me and donot expect also. All i mean't was that -good that we at least agree to disagree. Hope u cd not understand wht i wrote !!
Boss it's u who u is not able to accept the bitter truths and blame the audience for exiting. I am open to good reasoning but if u ask me to listen to something becuase u like it - will not do !!

I can say the same words for you and perhaps even more.
But you cannot deny the blunt fact that there are more takers for vocal/instrumental players and hardly any for tani player. But it's so funny that u have to finally resort to making personal remarks to win the argument. Please donot stoop so low.

No offence meant!

mageshsai · Post by **mageshsai** » 02 Feb 2010, 14:03

Dear Hari, it is not possible to explain you if you have decided to close your ears. We cannot fill the glass that is already full

.

Yours is a kind of prepared reply. I know you would come with such a reply. That's why I emphasized on 'half of the crowd' in "But have you ever seen half of the crowd moving out of the theatre even though the film is worst?"

/* But i donot thing the producers or actors or fans etc are so concerned about it !! */
going out of a theatre is different from moving out in front of the artiste who is performing for you on the stage. Don't you get that? The artiste' never complained about the exodus, they respect your freedom. It is we rasigas talking for them. Do you respect their work?

BTW, the Kanjira artiste was Anirudh Athreya ( if I remember correctly)

mageshsai · Post by **mageshsai** » 02 Feb 2010, 14:07

what was the tamil song sung on that day? it had lines like 'Bala krishnan'...

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 02 Feb 2010, 14:25

HarishankarK wrote:
Your examples donot match sir. Leaving a concert hall in the middle is in no way obscene or indecent as the examples u have quoted.

First, please accept my apology for my extreme example if it offended your sensibilities. Unfortunately for Chennai, not enough people find these actions obscene or indecent. Just that you find them to be so sets you apart as one sensitive to the well being of others.

Walking in & out of the performance hall however boring or unsatisfying you find it causing distraction to the artistes and the audience, even if not detrimental to the public health, can be sorely disturbing to the others who want to enjoy the performance. I am sure you can sharpen your sensibilities a little more to be considerate of them also.

semmu86 · Post by **semmu86** » 02 Feb 2010, 15:00

@ Harishankar - I think most of the points have already been discussed , but anyway my two cents worth .. As balaji sir said , even though lec dems and workshops are being conducted for understanding laya , the audience attendance is very thin. So its upto the audience's interest in appreciating laya. But having said that , even if many people are not very knowledgable about laya , it is the duty of the percussion artists of the day to keep them engaged during thani by playing impressively . There have been countless instances where people used to throng concerts just to listen to a man , having your name , play. ( yours truely was one among them ) .

But fortunately today we can proudly say that there is not that mass exits happening during thani , though some people stay on because they chose to respect the artists for their position on stage ( not that the people who leave dont give respect ) .. And i dont see either the main artist or the percussion artist ( except a few ) getting worried or disturbed by this fact . Some people will be themselves no matter what . So i think its best to leave it at that and not getting worried too much and to continue to do our job.

squims · Post by **squims** » 02 Feb 2010, 23:26

Are the concerts in this series free or ticketed?Do we get to book in advance?

They are free and all are welcome. Get there soon though, the place is small and gets filled soon. The kutcheris end on Monday with Sudha Ragunathan's concert. I attended T.M.Krishna's concert last evening. Will type up a report on that some time soon. Have been a bit busy. It was an interesting concert definitely. Today was R.K.Srikantan's but I couldn't make it. Will definitely be going to Vijay Siva's tomorrow.

He is very popular for this particular disiplining. In fact many usual concert
goers know this and keep telling their friends during mangalam. This kind of
disiplining efforts need to be appreciated.

Oh he had an outburst yesterday. He shouted at a person who (I think) was taping the whole concert on video. Just before the main piece he snapped at him 'Sir! You are recording the concert from the beginning! You aren't a videographer are you? Record kekkanum na, veettiliye irungo, inge varaadingo.' The person went and apologised personally to Krishna after the concert.

BTW, the Kanjira artiste was Anirudh Athreya ( if I remember correctly)

Ah yes! Really, he was a very pleasant surprise, since I'd never listened to him earlier.

what was the tamil song sung on that day? it had lines like 'Bala krishnan'...

That wasn't Tamil. That was the Sanskrit piece 'Aalokaye' by Narayana Theerthar(as rajeshnat kindly pointed out).

badari · Post by **badari** » 03 Feb 2010, 05:48

I suggest thesub main and main song should be 2nd and 3rd right after varna / ganapathi invocation song.. as a result the Tani can be appreciated well in full energy. the post 2 hrs exodus need not be considered as offending to any particular artist.

Babu · Post by **Babu** » 03 Feb 2010, 08:41

I recall Sanjay Subramanian's concert at Music Academy a few years back. The same exodus and Trichy Sankaran stopped thani for the rasikas to exit and gave a spirited thani after a lengthy applause from the rasikas. My sincere request to all Mridhangam vidwans is to follow suite for helping rasikas in a hurry to exit and play for the rasikas who stay behind.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 03 Feb 2010, 10:59

mageshsai wrote:Dear Hari, it is not possible to explain you if you have decided to close your ears. We cannot fill the glass that is already full .

Yours is a kind of prepared reply. I know you would come with such a reply. That's why I emphasized on 'half of the crowd' in "But have you ever seen half of the crowd moving out of the theatre even though the film is worst?"

/* But i donot thing the producers or actors or fans etc are so concerned about it !! */
going out of a theatre is different from moving out in front of the artiste who is performing for you on the stage. Don't you get that? The artiste' never complained about the exodus, they respect your freedom. It is we rasigas talking for them. Do you respect their work?

BTW, the Kanjira artiste was Anirudh Athreya ( if I remember correctly)

I do not think that even half the crowd moves out of a concert. Here the issue is not people moving out during the concert but moving out during tani for various reasons and returning or not after tani.

I do respect their work but i might just not be able to sit through it. And a few people like me not attending the tani would in no way diminish the tani artistes' talent/respect.

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 03 Feb 2010, 11:10

No offence meant!

Thanks - no offence here either

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 03 Feb 2010, 11:28

Again i repeat that i have attended several concerts (mostly free !!) but never exited duing tani but i donot have any problem with others who do so !!
The only thing am unable to bear is why we blame the audience for leaving when they are not interested in listening. Am sure it is not out of disrespect and only out of disinterest that exodus happens

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Feb 2010, 12:54

An elderly gentleman, a good listener, does not want to get up in the middle of a song, isn't that great a fan of laya, isn't keen on kaNAkku, has to answer nature's call--so leaves during the tani--excused.
Another couple, have come from the other end of town, do want to listen to good music, come all the way through traffic, listen intently and have to leave at say, eight, arent that crazy about tani either, but are worried about the availability of autos after that hour.
Parents with children, all into music, the little ones learning music and the parents wanting to expose them to good music whenever possible--school day, home work, so have to reluctantly leave early.
There are others who come directly from work without even stopping for a quick morsel for the love of CM. We cannot fault these folks for not arriving early.
All are true rasikAs and musicians depend on them for their attendance and patronage (even in a free concert). Musicians should show their dissatisfaction when some so-called rasikAs come to concerts just to converse with friends or arrive late only to make their appearance in a cultural scene. And there are those make noisy tALams to drive those who sit around them crazy. The nuances of the music and the tALam get drowned in their noisy appreciation.

musicfan_4201 · Post by **musicfan_4201** » 03 Feb 2010, 13:20

HarishankarK · Post by **HarishankarK** » 03 Feb 2010, 13:54

arasi wrote:An elderly gentleman, a good listener, does not want to get up in the middle of a song, isn't that great a fan of laya, isn't keen on kaNAkku, has to answer nature's call--so leaves during the tani--excused.
Another couple, have come from the other end of town, do want to listen to good music, come all the way through traffic, listen intently and have to leave at say, eight, arent that crazy about tani either, but are worried about the availability of autos after that hour.
Parents with children, all into music, the little ones learning music and the parents wanting to expose them to good music whenever possible--school day, home work, so have to reluctantly leave early.
There are others who come directly from work without even stopping for a quick morsel for the love of CM. We cannot fault these folks for not arriving early.
All are true rasikAs and musicians depend on them for their attendance and patronage (even in a free concert). Musicians should show their dissatisfaction when some so-called rasikAs come to concerts just to converse with friends or arrive late only to make their appearance in a cultural scene. And there are those make noisy tALams to drive those who sit around them crazy. The nuances of the music and the tALam get drowned in their noisy appreciation.

Thanks Arasi i totally agree with you. Attendees may have genuine reasons to leave during the concert and also during tani.

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 03 Feb 2010, 15:03

I wish to remind members that 'Bombay Jayashri on 31/01/10 at Gayana Samaj, Bangalore' is the topic of this post!!

The moderator can move the arguments to a separate topic/thread 'The tani etiquette' or the like!

squims · Post by **squims** » 03 Feb 2010, 16:09

Just a small query. Posting in this thread because it is active. I just noticed that there's no more permission to create new threads on this forum. So is everyone from here migrating to the new forum? Do we have to register there again? Will the threads from here be archived there. I'm sorry if my questions have been answered elsewhere in the forum, I couldn't find it. Thanks in advance!

rajaglan · Post by **rajaglan** » 06 Feb 2010, 14:37

HarishankarK wrote:Again i repeat that i have attended several concerts (mostly free !!) but never exited duing tani but i donot have any problem with others who do so !!
The only thing am unable to bear is why we blame the audience for leaving when they are not interested in listening. Am sure it is not out of disrespect and only out of disinterest that exodus happens

Yes, this is what you have been saying. Why pople donot understand is not clear!!

To add to a different post :

The other day at Shashank's program, someone was taking video. He clearly indicated that "you donot have my permission".