Cleveland Competitions

kumar · Post by **kumar** » 05 Apr 2010, 22:47

Is there any list of all the winners posted for the 2010 Cleveland Competitions?
Thanks,
Kumar

svrfremont · Post by **svrfremont** » 06 Apr 2010, 05:23

Here is the link for the results:

http://www.aradhana.org/competition/results2010.html

Ramesh

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 06 Apr 2010, 06:17

Wow! organizing and managing that many participants must have been a great challenge to come up with the best picks for the prizes

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 06 Apr 2010, 07:10

Thanks for sending the link to the results. Was happy to note one of my former students was among the winners!

tkb · Post by **tkb** » 06 Apr 2010, 12:18

congrats to all the winners and wishes for the participants for their future.

musicmysoul · Post by **musicmysoul** » 06 Apr 2010, 15:44

Wow!!! 7 people won concert competition. I know the kids were amazing in the competition .
( Is there more to it?--- for this type of selection since many of them learn from senior vidwans from india and doesn't want to be left out)

cmpassion · Post by **cmpassion** » 06 Apr 2010, 20:08

The competition was amazing to watch, especially at the senior level. These kids are truly amazing and an inspiration. We can all be confident that CM will flourish in the next generation as well.

I want to make a couple of suggestions to the organizers. Hope they consider this for future competitions.

1. Please don't let teachers judge their own students. I understand you have to leverage visiting artists to judge. But when a teacher awards a 1st prize to his/her own student, it is absolutely not fair to the other students. I heard this from a few parents.

2. Please use a structured scale to judge and not use subjective decisions/impressions. I was impressed with all the concert competition contestants but using clear metrics to judge (like shruthi, talam, bhavam, raga lakshanam, complexity, creativity, etc) taking the average of all judges eliminating any weird deviations, then arriving at 7 winners will be impossible.

3. Please do not allow past winners to participate again in same categories. There are some truly prodigious kids who are cornering the prizes year after year. A few of them have even started performing for major concerts and they still compete again and again.

Looking forward to future Aradhanas and hearing more and more talented kids!!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 06 Apr 2010, 20:40

Congratulations to all the Winners!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 06 Apr 2010, 20:46

"Please don't let teachers judge their own students"

Comes under the heading of justice not only being done, but being seen to be done. Whilst there are always people who will assert that they are sure they know why somebody else's offspring won, and those people are usually wrong, this is an issue that can only cause awkwardness and misunderstanding, even if the teacher/judges are actually as white as snow.

raspassion · Post by **raspassion** » 06 Apr 2010, 23:15

We have to really wonder what are the real motivation/obectives for cleveland competitions?

There are atleast couple of perspectives I have heard from number of people regarding the competition:
1. positives: This helps promote Carnatic Music in North America. Gets visibility/access to top musicians from India and USA. The children have something to work towards and hence a good motivation for learning music

2. Negatives: However, if the competitions are not done fairly or if the quality starts getting compromised for Quantity then the organizers will have trouble attracting talented individuals in the long run. For example, I have heard the increasingly the competitions are viewed as a source for income as opposed to genuinely encourage talent. I do believe that in some categories the talent levels are much higher than others. For example, all the 20+participants got a prize in the Mridangam competition!!! Why call it a competition? Similarly in the concert competition , how can you give 7 first prizes!!!! Yes, I understand they are all talented and they are all winners otherwise they wouldn't have the courage to participate in the competition.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 07 Apr 2010, 00:27

raspassion: good point - hopefully you can help aradhana committee with required financial support so they can be worry free from one most important and vital aspect of this function. I believe all participants are winners and restricting that belief is non-motivating factor.

natakapriya · Post by **natakapriya** » 07 Apr 2010, 06:43

I did think that the 7 winners for concert competition could have been brought to a smaller number. nevertheless, the quality of singing was amazing, especially in the senior level, as mentioned previously. Even in the senior Ragam Neraval Swaram categories. anyone else feel that the standard in the senior level has risen exponentially in the past 1-2 years? This rise in the students level makes all the fighting about the competitions seem unnecessary when such talent is being surfaced.

cmpassion · Post by **cmpassion** » 07 Apr 2010, 07:46

Yes, Natakapriya.
What I found even more amazing is how much these kids (who I guess have been meeting each other in Cleveland for many years) have made lasting friendships centered around music.. they were hanging out together and even trying swara jams together

So, please don't mistake my suggestions - they are meant to be constructive feedback!

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 07 Apr 2010, 09:53

raspassion wrote:
We have to really wonder what are the real motivation/obectives for cleveland competitions?

For example, all the 20+participants got a prize in the Mridangam competition!!! Why call it a competition? Similarly in the concert competition , how can you give 7 first prizes!!!! Yes, I understand they are all talented and they are all winners otherwise they wouldn't have the courage to participate in the competition.

Wasn't there a category where only second and thirs prizes were awarded but no first prize (accompaniment, senior, percussion)?

Weren't there categories where only first and third prizes were awarded?

One could conclude that some sort of objective criterion was used in deciding not to award some prizes.

As to 7 first prizes, I am amazed. Even in horseracing, at least at the club I worked for, only 3 horses could be declared simultaneous winners. And that would require a photo finish! What we need is an audio recording, instant playback, judges seen (on the big screens displayed everywhere people congregate) in animated discussion, and award of no more than 3 first prizes. That would then eliminate Second and Third prizes, there being only Win but no Show or Place possible(these are racing terms). Some commentary by raspassion or music-is-my-rear-end would bring continuous feedback to the audience and we could all be happy.

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 Apr 2010, 01:07

This is VKV and I am writing in a new ID since I had difficulties in logging in using my usual login id.

I am right now at the Cleveland Aradhana and posting it from the Main Class Room auditorium.

I discussed the concert competition issue with VVS and I am summarizing below as best as I can.

The judges were Sudha Raghunathan, V Ramachandran, Charumathi, Mannargudi Easwaran and Nagai Muralidharan. Shashikiran joined later. Gayathri Venkataraghavan was a spectator with a lot of other vidwans and vidhushis. VVS never sits through any of the competitions but this year he had time and decided to observe. He had just returned from the local hospital where one of the core volunteers was in coma having collapsed the previous day while jogging. VVS had gone there to meet the family.

The competition was tough. The judges said that even performing musicians would find it difficult to answer some of the questions. The request to sing Chathusra Thiram to be followed by thisra gathi was a case in point. The contestant merely asked the concept to be explained, asked for time to understand and integrate it in the thought process, and executed it flawlessly. The question of 3 different musical phrases to be combined and repeated thrice to a particular eduppu to be followed by the same phrases on another eduppu and then to alternate between the two eduppus was also a very tough one. None of the questions were anticipated and they were not rehearsed answers.

The judges asked for clarification from VVS on the concept of concert competition. The answer was they should be capable of giving a 1 hour concert with visiting senior vidwans as accompanist and should have the potential to become regular concert musician in a year or two. All the judges then said that all 11 contestants were of that caliber, but 7 stood out. VVS said he can have a maximum of three winners but not 7. He said that he had heard of organizers pressurizing judges to give addtional awards, but here the roles seemed to have reversed.

At that point, it was decided to have an elimination round and that the aradhana committee would bear the expenses of flying the 7 contestants. Sudha Raghunathan and Shashikiran immediately said that they would sponsor the travel costs. School conflicts eventually dicted that the run off would be held on Saturday afternoon.

Saturday morning, VVS met Easwaran Sir and Nagai Murali Sir to discuss the logistics. Both said that there was no difference between the 7 and it would be unfair to eliminate based on non-relevent data. One contestant does not possess a strong voice, but the gnanam was unquestionable and reminded them of Alathur Srinivasa Iyer. They heatedly asked whether that person be eliminated based on that trait ? Nagai Murali Sir then said that he need not be invited for concerts but wants to come to the festival only to be a judge for the competition. Both said that they seldom come across such a talented bunch and certainly they have not seen it in the citadel of carnatic music. They said run off was unnecessary and their decision was final. There are 7 winners and they are capable of holding on their own with any accompanists and could measure upto any of the performing musicians.

VVS called the contestants for a meeting at 12:30 at the Comfort Inn Ballroom. He had to give 7 full sized thamburas and 7 one hour slots. One of the contestant said that they wanted the prize to be given in the sadas and will wait for one year for the one hour slot.

Be proud of these kids and their achievements. Praise from such eminent musicians is not easy to get. The kids were amazing.

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 08 Apr 2010, 01:33

All one can say is .. wow! I hope there are plans of taking atleast some of these youngsters/"youngstars" on tour within the US ..

- Sreenadh

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Apr 2010, 01:48

Thanks VKV. Very illuminating inside details on the judging of the competitions. We are indeed proud that Cleveland is instrumental in producing such competative gems locally in NA which bodes well for our future in CM. We will look forward to their performance in future festivals as also elsewhere in NA.
Hats off to VVS for defending the principles of the competition but compromising when the chips were down. Congratulations to the Sapta Ratnas and also to the other winners who equally deserve the appreeciation from all of us Rasikas....

natakapriya · Post by **natakapriya** » 08 Apr 2010, 02:35

straying a bit from the concert competition, was anyone else present during the Junior Krithi competition judged by the Trichur Brothers and Bhushani Kalyanaraman? The judges gave very constructive individual feedback to each of the participants, and I thought this was a very encouraging step and could possibly be incorporated into all of the competitions? Any thoughts?

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 08 Apr 2010, 07:29

cacm wrote:
I discussed the concert competition issue with VVS and I am summarizing below as best as I can.....

The judges asked for clarification from VVS on the concept of concert competition. The answer was they should be capable of giving a 1 hour concert with visiting senior vidwans as accompanist and should have the potential to become regular concert musician in a year or two. All the judges then said that all 11 contestants were of that caliber, but 7 stood out. VVS said he can have a maximum of three winners but not 7. He said that he had heard of organizers pressurizing judges to give addtional awards, but here the roles seemed to have reversed.

Earlier, I had said [Even in horseracing, at least at the club I worked for, only 3 horses could be declared simultaneous winners.]

Tell me Cleveland Sundaram goes to the races! Kentucky Derby? Preakness? Belmont? Now we know where he gets the money for the Cleveland Aradhana!

I know quite a few musicians who perform in Cleveland are thoroughbreds and we now can understand how that happens. But what I can't understand is why there are also a few also-rans and never-do-wells in the line-up. And if Cleveland Sundaram spends time in the airconditioned boxes at the race track, how come there is always enough stable material to be shoveled at the Aradhana? :devil:

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 08 Apr 2010, 08:57

TO HARIMAMU:
I do not know about VVS-he is too "regular" to try such schemes i think- but I have been to all three race tracks for various reasons! I was "Sugar Daddy" for a lexington co.- spending tax payer money on profit making corpns-they took me to K DERBY. Mint Juleep is not what its cracked to be; Kentucky Bourbon is more potent....I had to take a famous violinst(carnatic) to Belmont in the sixties where I made two dollars on a one dollar bet on Secretariat(?) & the violinst lost 50 dollars-his concert fee!-
Incidentally if we ever meet in the Snake& Cow bar you talked about near Narada gana sabha I can tell you about how a famous composition happened after the immortal composer had lost more than the proverbial shirt on his back at Guindy!...PL come up & write about other brilliant ideas that can bankrupt the aradhana...Regs, VKV

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 Apr 2010, 09:20

VKV, Good to hear from you clarifying things and reminiscing too. Love your stories. The horse's name was Secretary. No, I didn't know that by working around any ovals tackling 'stable material'--nice euphemism, by the way

rajeshnat · Post by **rajeshnat** » 08 Apr 2010, 10:02

Is there a youtube or downloads available to hear these 7 participants who got the first prize.?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 08 Apr 2010, 20:04

Enjoying your racing lingo VKV and Harimau! It may be safer to bet on poker or even Irish Sweepstakes to increase your revenues with the assistance of Harimau who can call an excellent 'bluff'

Incidentally you can recommend VVS to start a Pub in the vicinity during the Festival which can enormously increase the attendance. Our visiting artistes can entertain therein with abhangs and snake songs which otherwise they may hesitate singing during the regular concerts

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 09 Apr 2010, 09:23

I like your pub idea esp. the snake -abhang idea but this area is already not the safest place. Unless you have inside connections with Pinkertons for them to work free it may fall in the Harimamu betting on horses idea category. I bet there are others who can solve the solvency with their ideas. The silcon valley billionaires etc have not proposed a solution nor have they loosened up on the cash needed.....VKV

shanks · Post by **shanks** » 09 Apr 2010, 23:34

Natakapriya wrote:
straying a bit from the concert competition, was anyone else present during the Junior Krithi competition judged by the Trichur Brothers and Bhushani Kalyanaraman? The judges gave very constructive individual feedback to each of the participants, and I thought this was a very encouraging step and could possibly be incorporated into all of the competitions? Any thoughts?

An excellent pro-active action by the judges in my view. Providing individual feedback provides the participant with an idea of the good and bad of the participant's performance.

Being a parent of a participant (present and past), I had suggested to the committee member that this practice be introduced a couple of years ago. After numerous email exchanges and even putting together a detailed document on ways to make the competition more organized and beneficial to all, it went nowhere.

On one hand VVS talks about how lucky the participants are to be judged by eminent professional musicians, which is wonderful. But what does the participant see/hear - that the judges found the children to be very capable blah blah blah and that some have won prizes. The children who do not win walk away wondering - what did i do wrong to not win a prize? On the spot individual feedback would make a tremendous difference. This would add about 60 seconds for each participant which can be easily introduced and managed.

Shankar

Kalpana Mohan · Post by **Kalpana Mohan** » 10 Apr 2010, 21:59

Hi,

I thought Cleveland fans may find my blog post interesting. Go to
http://kalpanamohan.typepad.com/on_edge ... 10.html#tp

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