Enjoy these two short Alapanas. S.NAGESWARAN.

[S.NAGESWARAN]

Dear Rasikas,

Enjoy the two short Alapanas given below and guess as to who would have played such a meditative Alapanas.

Download links; 1. http://www.mediafire.com/file/zfyje5zmnjm/Desh - ARTIST.mp3

2. http://www.mediafire.com/file/d2mkuyjyudq/Misra Pilu -ARTIST.mp3

S.NAGESWARAN.
08.04.2010.

[cmlover]

I just heard the meditative Desh (was hooked)!
My guess is VS Narasimhan (to whose melody you had introduced me)...

[arasi]

Nageswaran,
Thanks!
Just listened to the meditative dES. The violin sings!

CML,
I very briefly met the artiste at NAgeswaran's house in December. He looked very laid back too.

[cmlover]

? one of the dark horses better known abroad than at home ....

[arasi]

Am I mistaken? Who was the violinist who was present at Nageswaran's house when Aishwarya played the violin?

[Suji Ram]

Simply superb. At first I thought it was not violin... and indeed it is on Viola.
Thanks

[cmlover]

I agree with you Suji
I also thought Viola!

[S.NAGESWARAN]

Regarding post No.05 from arasi.

Sri V.S.Narasimhan was very much present at my residance when Ayswarya Venkatraman played a short and sweet violin concert for
one hour.

S.NAGESWARAN.
09.04.2010.

[rshankar]

Since Arasi started the discussion on Sri Narasimhan, here is a write up on his newest release, the 'Raga Saga': http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/04/09/stor ... 060200.htm

[S.NAGESWARAN]

Dear Rasikas,

All of you have guessed it correct. Sri V.S.Narasimhan only has played the meditative short Alapanas in Electric Viola in Hindustani style.

A month back, Sri VSN sent me a mail informing me that he recently upgraded his computer. He saw the Alapanas available in his hard disk [played long ago] and sent me the audio clips to me. He has indicated that he didn’t have any formal training
In Hindustani music.

All Rasikas attend music concerts to distress their mind and wants to listen to a peaceful meditative music [Perhaps Rasikas of my age group will agree with me on this point].

We always enjoy Hindustani music more because of the importance of melody aspect of their music.

The current trend of carnatic music presented by the musicians of to day is always racy, noisy and you get a sure headache after an hour. Our percussionist’s in spite of their intelligence present a total noisy environment in the concert.

In our close Rasikas group who attend music concerts frequently, used to have a pep talk and say that “Hindustani music is ‘ TONDAI’ sangeetham and Carnatic music
Is ‘THODAI sangeetham’.

In my opinion, it will be better if the currant artists should select at least one composition
of Dickshidar and sing a krithi of him in a vilambit kalam and sing it with more bhavam and emotion. They should avoid singing of swaras for this krithi.

I hope that the carnatic musicians will try to present their concerts giving more melodic music in vilamba kalam.

S.NAGESWARAN.
14.04.2010.

[bilahari]

Sri Nageswaran, thank you so much for these alapanais. I particularly love the dES - handled so patiently by VSN and the viola gives it so much depth!

[cmlover]

Shankar
I guessed it first and arasi said she had met him at Nageswaran's house
I am fascinated by VSN though I have not met him.
Thanks to Nageswaran for introducing his meditative style tome!

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Thank you Mr.Nageswaran.Is Mr.Narasimhan the same person we met in your house during the 2009 Decemeber season.? What a humble man he is!! Entharo Mahanubhavulu Anthariki vandanamu".

The Desh was soul-filling and exemplified the natural lilt to the raga.

Thanks again for bringing it to our attention.

[vasanthakokilam]

...here is a write up on his newest release, the 'Raga Saga': http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/04/09/stor ... 060200.htm

Thanks rshankar. Sounds like an interesting album and worth checking out.

Though it may be true that, as Shri. Narasimhan says that this kind of a project may not be embraced wholeheartedly by the core carnatic music fan base, but I usually find that that with Shri. Narashimhan and Anil Srinivasan, that these are serious works with high musical aesthetics and sensibilities.

Too bad some people consider all this fusion and take a pass. It is their loss. There is really something new being attempted with that counterpoint line over our well known songs. It works beautifully sometimes.

As with any contrapuntal line, it does not follow along the main line like a violin accompaniment does, in fact most of the times it goes in the opposite direction, only to come back to 'agreement' once in a short while. That may be a bit odd initially, but given that CM is rasa based first and foremost, that contrapuntal line plus the main line together form a new related 'rasa' that sort of feeds back as a commentary on the main line that we are all familiar with. It is not an easy thing to pull off for a composer but when it works it is wonderful and quite consistent with the CM aesthetics.

One such instance where it worked for me in that synergistic sense is with the String Quartet's Palukava (Devamanohari): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5-8jIXI ... re=related

[srikant1987]

This dEvamanOhari is lovely.

dEvamanOhari is a very, very underused rAgam!

And it can sound very good -- and Carnatic -- with flat notes too!

[thenpaanan]

...

Too bad some people consider all this fusion and take a pass. It is their loss. There is really something new being attempted with that counterpoint line over our well known songs. It works beautifully sometimes.

As with any contrapuntal line, it does not follow along the main line like a violin accompaniment does, in fact most of the times it goes in the opposite direction, only to come back to 'agreement' once in a short while. That may be a bit odd initially, but given that CM is rasa based first and foremost, that contrapuntal line plus the main line together form a new related 'rasa' that sort of feeds back as a commentary on the main line that we are all familiar with. It is not an easy thing to pull off for a composer but when it works it is wonderful and quite consistent with the CM aesthetics.

One such instance where it worked for me in that synergistic sense is with the String Quartet's Palukava (Devamanohari): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5-8jIXI ... re=related

Many many moons ago I took a couple of classes in Music in university where one of things I learned was basic counterpoint theory. For the benefit of the very few who might not know this already, counterpoint (of which "contrapuntal" is the adjective form) is the practice of putting together multiple melodic lines ("voices") that are not replicating each other in space (as in CM, where the voice and violin are an octave apart during the kriti) or time (as in fugues and in Carnatic alapana accompaniment) but rather moving differently relative to each other. I learned what is called "four part harmony" which is four melodic lines bass, tenor, alto, soprano (in increasing order of average pitch) and which embodies most of the classic (i.e. old and perhaps not used so much any more) rules of counterpoint. The rules essentially tell us what is allowed in the music -- the relative positions of the notes at any given moment in time must form a chord (some transitions are allowed and necessary from one chord to another when the notes are not strictly in chordal position). The allowed chords are listed -- major and minor thirds and fifths (e.g. sa, ga, pa, Sa in mohanam would be a major fifth so the bass, tenor, alto, soprano voices could each sing one note respectively) as well as some others to be used sparingly including inverted chords where the bass note may not be playing the base of the chord but some other voice may supply that note. There are rules about the transitions within a melodic line as well -- you cannot jump a seventh (i.e. sa to ni above) and so on but I am not sure whether that comes from counterpoint theory or from elsewhere.

I remember that in our class exercises we were given the melody for one of the voices and a key (that restricts what notes you are allowed to pick, analogous to a ragam -- there are the usual G Major, E minor, etc but also melodic minors and so on that allowed extra notes) that we had to fill out the other voices following counterpoint rules. Following the rules does not guarantee good music it only guarantees minimization of dissonance.

I wondered back then what it would be like if in the exercise the given line was a line from CM. Take the simplest example -- if the line is the canonical CM line "vAtApi gaNapatim" in C what could the contrapuntal harmony look like? Here we run into a basic problem and I wonder how Shri Narasimhan solved it. What rules should we use? Should we use thirds and fifths and other chords using the notes of the ragam? Or should we use an entirely different set of rules altogether? Generally rules must follow aesthetics but since we are in unfamiliar territory here we have to find out what sounds good by trying.

What does Shri Narasimhan do, does he follow some sort of theory? I have not sensed that he is doing anything complicated chords-wise in his compositions but complexity is not a requirement, sounding good is. What he seems to be doing is using the line from the kriti as in the palukavemira example played by the lead violin as the soprano voice (which is not just the highest voice in the quad but also typically the one that moves the fastest) with the other instruments providing the lower notes for chordal support and move more slowly. Thus most of the time the other players are playing repetitive bass chords (which suggests that there is much more to be explored here).

I am particularly interested in the following experiment but it requires at least two people so I cannot do it by myself. Perhaps the Ganesh Kumaresh duo have tried this. One player plays a line such as the vAtApi gaNapatim line. The other player has to play a completely different melodic line in hamsadhvani but at every staying note the two players should either be in unison or some consonant interval, everywhere else they should be different as much as possible (crossovers are ok). Can this work or would this sound cacophonous? The problem as no doubt Shri Narasimhan knows is that because our music is full of grace notes and embellishments, at any given moment the note being played is most likely not a "standard" value -- in the case of hamsadhvani the voice is sliding from pa to ni and then oscillating around ni but never "at" ni. How is one to make a chord from that except to play sa and pa like the tambura or as in Shri Narasimhan's compositions have the other voices move to standard values like ga and pa in all octaves to minimize dissonance?

There is the case of the Dikshitar kriti chittaiswaram (the exact kriti has escaped my mind) where in the DKP school two people are supposed to sing two different sets of notes simultaneously. These things are so rare in CM that I doubt any rules exist to use for such experiments.Occasionally I have heard sitarists use chords in HM but only fleetingly.

Perhaps some of the forum members who have learned both CM and western music can comment?

-Then Paanan

[vasanthakokilam]

Then Paanan: Good overview of the issue. That is in sync with what my understanding of counter point is and how it will be when used in the carnatic context. Anil Srinivasan's work is also very relevant in this context and so is Ravikiran's melharmony. Chords and counter point are different things though related. In the palukavademira example, as the song develops there are more intricate counter point lines. I remember hearing such aesthetically beautiful parallel lines in what Anil does, It may have been vasantha with Sikkil Gurucharan.

As you wrote, there are rules in WM theory about the construction of counter points. I interpret those rules as succinct expressions codifying western ideas on aesthetics regarding consonance and dissonance, so that when the multiple lines are performed together they sound good. Even for a non western person like me, those rules make intuitive sense.

I am also hoping that other forum members will extend this further and educate us.

[KMH]

Dear Sri Nageswaran,

Thanks for the two pieces. Absolutely soul stirring! On your recommendation, I had bought Sri Narasimhan's Raga Saga, and remember enjoying it immensely. Has he released any new CDs?

[Mahathma]

Dear Rasikas,

All of you have guessed it correct. Sri V.S.Narasimhan only has played the meditative short Alapanas in Electric Viola in Hindustani style.

A month back, Sri VSN sent me a mail informing me that he recently upgraded his computer. He saw the Alapanas available in his hard disk [played long ago] and sent me the audio clips to me. He has indicated that he didn’t have any formal training
In Hindustani music.

All Rasikas attend music concerts to distress their mind and wants to listen to a peaceful meditative music [Perhaps Rasikas of my age group will agree with me on this point].

We always enjoy Hindustani music more because of the importance of melody aspect of their music.

The current trend of carnatic music presented by the musicians of to day is always racy, noisy and you get a sure headache after an hour. Our percussionist’s in spite of their intelligence present a total noisy environment in the concert.

In our close Rasikas group who attend music concerts frequently, used to have a pep talk and say that “Hindustani music is ‘ TONDAI’ sangeetham and Carnatic music
Is ‘THODAI sangeetham’.

In my opinion, it will be better if the currant artists should select at least one composition
of Dickshidar and sing a krithi of him in a vilambit kalam and sing it with more bhavam and emotion. They should avoid singing of swaras for this krithi.

I hope that the carnatic musicians will try to present their concerts giving more melodic music in vilamba kalam.

S.NAGESWARAN.
14.04.2010.

I am not sure if you have ever listened to KVN or MDR.......please listen more before you make such random comparisons and judgements.

Our music is in no way inferior in the melody quotient. Tell me this. is there any sabha ready to host a ten day festival, where only one raga is rendered each day? I doubt big time.

dont blame the musicians. We rasikas are more responsible for this. why do we clap whenever there is a burst of energy. Why was Voleti not as popular as some of the others. Why is L subramaniam more popular (globally) than a TNK or Lalgudi? Musicians are compelled to do this for our sake.

Conclusion: I am sorry, i can never agree with this popular misconception.

[S.NAGESWARAN]

Dear Sri Mahathma,

I have only mentioned about the present generation of musicians when I said that

"The current trend of carnatic music presented by the musicians of to day is always racy,
noisy and you get a sure headache after an hour. Our percussionists in spite of their intelligence
add a total noisy environment in the concert."

Having listened to the legends of music of yester year for the past 5 decades,
I can only say that I have enjoyed the music of KVN, MDR etc to the brim.

Only when I think of music of the legends of yester year, I am compelled to lament about the present day concert scenario
from the young musicians of to day.

S.NAGESWARAN.
16.05.2010.

[VK RAMAN]

Nageswaran: I respectfully disagree. Present day artists get more audience and get more returns than the erstwhile generation; that does say something. Let us not blame the taste of the audience.

[srikant1987]

S.NAGESWARAN,

I think you've not been listening to the right youngsters. You can always find a justification to claim that your KVN & MDR were better, but I don't think all the youngsters are so bad you actually have to lament about the "present-day concert scenario from the young musicians of today".