The forum should discuss this emphasis on diction- whether it is essential or it may not be necessary. . Most of the renderings either in CDs or in concert halls the diction is first sacrifice either due to the singers’ carelessness or the dinning the Mridangam eclipsing the voice of the singer. The ideal would be that one who does not know the lyric should be able to follow every word in the song.. Some singers slur over the words even though we boast that carnatic music is mainly Sahitya based.Emphasis on diction
The audio CDs have been set to tune in such a way as to put the required emphasis on diction - an aspect pushed to the background these days.
The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
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venkat1926
- Posts: 23
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The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
In the reference http://www.hindu.com/ms/2007/12/01/stor ... 090300.htm given by one of the forum readers I found following statement
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Venkat,
Yes, a valid concern on your part. You have also mentioned some sound (!) reasons for it. We rasikAs come with a variety of preferences. I am glad you are particular about clarity in sAhityam. It will not surprise me if young folks are particular too. They are used to listening to popular music as well where one hears the words clearly--though the inter-changed mouthing of 'la' and 'La', 'na' and 'Na' can drive an oldster crazy!
You have brought up something which is close to my heart too. I often try to imagine how bArati would have sung his verses, sounding as clear as a bell.
I will add a few more possible reasons for this deficiency in singers:
They may not speak the language or understand it.
They are not familiar with the differences in that particular language of sounds like say, da, dha, ba, bha and so on.
They sing in their native language but have little exposure to lyrical expressions in a composition.
Yes, they are more absorbed with the musical idiom that they miss out on clarity in sAhityam. Instrumentalists needn't worry about this!
After saying all this, I have to confess that I have been stopped a few times while singing my own comopsitions to be asked: what was that word again?
So, easier said than done.
All the more the reason vocalists should pay attention to clarity--even those who feel the impact of the sAhityA when it comes to delivering the emotive part of a line should try not to make the audience work hard on figuring out the words in a line.
In the Lyrics Section, Ravi, Lakshman and others wouldn't be spending that much time on figuring out the words either
We also have to keep in mind that they sing ancient lyrics often and they contain words which are too antiquated. A wild beast to tame indeed, but should not be ignored.
Yes, a valid concern on your part. You have also mentioned some sound (!) reasons for it. We rasikAs come with a variety of preferences. I am glad you are particular about clarity in sAhityam. It will not surprise me if young folks are particular too. They are used to listening to popular music as well where one hears the words clearly--though the inter-changed mouthing of 'la' and 'La', 'na' and 'Na' can drive an oldster crazy!
You have brought up something which is close to my heart too. I often try to imagine how bArati would have sung his verses, sounding as clear as a bell.
I will add a few more possible reasons for this deficiency in singers:
They may not speak the language or understand it.
They are not familiar with the differences in that particular language of sounds like say, da, dha, ba, bha and so on.
They sing in their native language but have little exposure to lyrical expressions in a composition.
Yes, they are more absorbed with the musical idiom that they miss out on clarity in sAhityam. Instrumentalists needn't worry about this!
After saying all this, I have to confess that I have been stopped a few times while singing my own comopsitions to be asked: what was that word again?
All the more the reason vocalists should pay attention to clarity--even those who feel the impact of the sAhityA when it comes to delivering the emotive part of a line should try not to make the audience work hard on figuring out the words in a line.
In the Lyrics Section, Ravi, Lakshman and others wouldn't be spending that much time on figuring out the words either
We also have to keep in mind that they sing ancient lyrics often and they contain words which are too antiquated. A wild beast to tame indeed, but should not be ignored.
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Radhika-Rajnarayan
- Posts: 289
- Joined: 27 Jun 2009, 20:18
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Indeed, while I agree with Arasi that it may not be so important for instrumentalists to be accurate with the sahityam, I would agree only up to a point. My personal view is that knowledge of the correctly pronounced sahityam, uccharipu, the meaning and splitting of the sahityam also enhances the music when played on the instrument. So, effectively, I would say it works this way -
-10_____________0__________________+10, where the 'minus 10' is the quality of instrumental music where there is no knowledge or sketchy knowledge of sahityam, '0' is when there is just adequate knowledge of sahityam, and '+10' is when there is full knowledge of the way the sahityam meshes with the music.
It does make a difference.
As far as vocal music goes, the effect of a Tyagaraja kriti sung by Dr Balamurali Krishna speaks for itself! :tmi:
-10_____________0__________________+10, where the 'minus 10' is the quality of instrumental music where there is no knowledge or sketchy knowledge of sahityam, '0' is when there is just adequate knowledge of sahityam, and '+10' is when there is full knowledge of the way the sahityam meshes with the music.
It does make a difference.
As far as vocal music goes, the effect of a Tyagaraja kriti sung by Dr Balamurali Krishna speaks for itself! :tmi:
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Radhika,
Agreed. It does make a big difference when the violinist and the percussionists know the sAhityam and its nuances.
Agreed. It does make a big difference when the violinist and the percussionists know the sAhityam and its nuances.
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munirao2001
- Posts: 1334
- Joined: 28 Feb 2009, 11:35
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
In Karnatic Music, Raga-Tala-Lyric are three pivotal parts. Primacy is for Nadanubhavam, through melody. Other parts are used for the ultimate experience. Lyric is the trigger for bhavam, which leads to the best selection of melody, with internalizing of the bhavam. Just like 'apa sruthi' has no place, 'apa sabdha' also has no place. Musician, offers 'swara pushpam' for the 'pada(word)/mantra pushpam' in the lyric. Only very few Vidwans/Vidushis really take efforts to acquire the correct/correctness of lyric and its meaning. Irrespective of the chosen method-Vocal or instrumental in expression/communication/presentation of music, the correct lyric leads to better creative music.
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VK RAMAN
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Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
when the violinist and the percussionists know the sAhityam and its nuances - How many in actual practice?
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munirao2001
- Posts: 1334
- Joined: 28 Feb 2009, 11:35
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
VKRaman
Goal in Indian Music for instrumentalists is for ideal 'gayaka padhati' or 'gayaki ang' and also offering their mastery over instrumental unique techniques/features.
Majority of the insturmentalists keep the goal and objectives. For successful adaptation of the gayaka padhati and to excel, Vidwans/Vidushis/Ustads/Pandits learn or atleast know the major and popular compositions and styles of singing. Only very few aim and achieve perfection, is related only to achievement.
Goal in Indian Music for instrumentalists is for ideal 'gayaka padhati' or 'gayaki ang' and also offering their mastery over instrumental unique techniques/features.
Majority of the insturmentalists keep the goal and objectives. For successful adaptation of the gayaka padhati and to excel, Vidwans/Vidushis/Ustads/Pandits learn or atleast know the major and popular compositions and styles of singing. Only very few aim and achieve perfection, is related only to achievement.
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tamizh_isai
- Posts: 2
- Joined: 31 Mar 2010, 15:35
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Even tamizh songs are not sung with care for lyrics by many singers,this can only be negligence.
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thanjavooran
- Posts: 3059
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:44
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Tamizh_isai avl,
I think you are referring to pronounciation too. In few Tamil channels News readers' zhagaram [ழகரம்] accent is horrible. As far as the correctness of the lyrics is concerened can take the assistance of a Lap top
Thanjavooran
I think you are referring to pronounciation too. In few Tamil channels News readers' zhagaram [ழகரம்] accent is horrible. As far as the correctness of the lyrics is concerened can take the assistance of a Lap top
Thanjavooran
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mahakavi
- Posts: 1269
- Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
It has been one of my pet peeves (don't ask me what are the others!) that fidelity to the words in the lyrics is a casualty in many a concert. Last week a musician (I won't name the person) gave a concert in which the musician messed up the order of the words in a song (in SEvikka VENDum of MuttuttANDavar) by interchanging the words in the line " bhaktargaL siddargaL" singing "siddargaL bhaktragaL" more than once. It is not of material concern as far as the music is concerned and >95% of the folks in the audience wouldn't have noticed it. Likewise in ambujam krishNA's song "guruvAyUrappanE.." the musician butchered the word "vizhigatkamudUTTum" (it was an inaudible mishmash glossed over awkwardly) in the line "vizhikatkamuduTTum ezhil tiru mEni tazhuvak karam tuDikkum bAlat tiruvuruvam" which had so much passion poured forth by the composer.
Another casualty is the splitting of the words improperly to throw off the meaning. Example: In brindAvana sAranga kriti of MD, most musicians sing it as "ranga pu ravi hAra" in order to conform to musical pattern while the phrase is "rangapura vihAra" (dwelling in rangapuram, i.e., Srirangam). Another case in point. In the kriti "rA rA mA iNTidAka" (asAvEri) of Thyagaraja, almost all the singers do it as "rA rAmA iNTidAka". Some of them also go over the "rAmA" several times as though the word is really "rAmA". Thyagaraja never mentions the word "rAmA" in that kriti (although it is addressed to rAma). The phrase means "please come (rArA) mA (to my) iNTidAka (abode/dwelling).
That rant should do for now.
Another casualty is the splitting of the words improperly to throw off the meaning. Example: In brindAvana sAranga kriti of MD, most musicians sing it as "ranga pu ravi hAra" in order to conform to musical pattern while the phrase is "rangapura vihAra" (dwelling in rangapuram, i.e., Srirangam). Another case in point. In the kriti "rA rA mA iNTidAka" (asAvEri) of Thyagaraja, almost all the singers do it as "rA rAmA iNTidAka". Some of them also go over the "rAmA" several times as though the word is really "rAmA". Thyagaraja never mentions the word "rAmA" in that kriti (although it is addressed to rAma). The phrase means "please come (rArA) mA (to my) iNTidAka (abode/dwelling).
That rant should do for now.
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Mahakavi,
And how many more! We have become accustomed to them over the course of years. VidvAns of the older generation were not exempt either. That's why we are amazed with MS for the clarity and the emoting of words in her singing.
It is true that many rasikAs jump in when a suspect note creeps into a rAgam or prayOgams.The lyrics police would get very tired indeed, sitting through a concert if they were that sensitive.
A number of sAhityam errors on the part of performers arise from their listening to old masters too. It seems it's too much to ask of the modern day singers for a thorough going through of the sAhityam before they perform a song. Some of them do not even 'know' the sAhityam and need to refer to note books and sheets of paper, let alone its meaning and finer points! They do pay attention to the musical structure of a piece. It is well worth learning the words and their impact too while practising a song before singing it on stage
There are several aspects to a sAhityam--the feeling and intent of the composer which is reflected in the lines--the key words which need to be given emphasis while realizing that other words (prepositions, for example) are not dwelt upon--let's just make up something here--'sItaiyODu' (along with sItai). Even supposing the musical phrase does not happen to be that easy in this instance--you can't sing 'sItai' in a hurry and dwell on 'ODu'! Surely, a composer would not have meant it that way--when prepositions and conjunctions are given that much importance, the key words lose their impact. From the performer's point of view, it may not be easy. If they could at least sing the lines in their own language well! Needs time and inclination, I agree.
Of course, children need to be alerted about the importance of sAhityam as they start to learn music. In that case, their teachers have to practise it too!
I relish MMI's music no end. He brings out all the emotions of the lyrics too in his singing. Yet, the 'ta ra lallAs' and 'aus and oos', however charming they sound, are not words in a sAhityam. The young who listen to the masters better catch their other great assets and not their indulgences with words!
And how many more! We have become accustomed to them over the course of years. VidvAns of the older generation were not exempt either. That's why we are amazed with MS for the clarity and the emoting of words in her singing.
It is true that many rasikAs jump in when a suspect note creeps into a rAgam or prayOgams.The lyrics police would get very tired indeed, sitting through a concert if they were that sensitive.
A number of sAhityam errors on the part of performers arise from their listening to old masters too. It seems it's too much to ask of the modern day singers for a thorough going through of the sAhityam before they perform a song. Some of them do not even 'know' the sAhityam and need to refer to note books and sheets of paper, let alone its meaning and finer points! They do pay attention to the musical structure of a piece. It is well worth learning the words and their impact too while practising a song before singing it on stage
There are several aspects to a sAhityam--the feeling and intent of the composer which is reflected in the lines--the key words which need to be given emphasis while realizing that other words (prepositions, for example) are not dwelt upon--let's just make up something here--'sItaiyODu' (along with sItai). Even supposing the musical phrase does not happen to be that easy in this instance--you can't sing 'sItai' in a hurry and dwell on 'ODu'! Surely, a composer would not have meant it that way--when prepositions and conjunctions are given that much importance, the key words lose their impact. From the performer's point of view, it may not be easy. If they could at least sing the lines in their own language well! Needs time and inclination, I agree.
Of course, children need to be alerted about the importance of sAhityam as they start to learn music. In that case, their teachers have to practise it too!
I relish MMI's music no end. He brings out all the emotions of the lyrics too in his singing. Yet, the 'ta ra lallAs' and 'aus and oos', however charming they sound, are not words in a sAhityam. The young who listen to the masters better catch their other great assets and not their indulgences with words!
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mahakavi
- Posts: 1269
- Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
MMI for all his vidwat gives me creeps when he sings just vowels---AAAAAA, eeeee, UUUUUUU, and repeats them umpteen times as though they are swaras. It is not my cup of tea! I beg the pardon of MMI fans here for making such a sacrilegious(?) statement!
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ragam-talam
- Posts: 1896
- Joined: 28 Sep 2006, 02:15
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Hmm, the sahitya topic rears its head again, eh?
Read this lovely article (story?) by our very own Arun on this topic: http://sunson.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/ ... tic-music/
It's hilarious, esp this section:
Read this lovely article (story?) by our very own Arun on this topic: http://sunson.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/ ... tic-music/
It's hilarious, esp this section:
Son, we live in a world that has music. And that music has to be nurtured and cherished by people who know it. Who’s gonna do it? You? Your whiny assistant? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Sahitya and you curse the musicians. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Sahitya’s mutilation, while tragic, is sometimes needed to beautify music for wider acceptance. And my teachings and performances without Sahitya Suddham, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, still brings joy to countless rasikas...
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mahakavi
- Posts: 1269
- Joined: 29 Dec 2009, 22:16
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Parody is fine. Do not take it seriously though. If mutilating sahityam produces melody here a totally mutilated one for someone who can make divine music out of this. Try it in tODi!
lakkaDi lakkaDi summA lakkaDi
akkA kaDi nannAk kaDi
mangA kaDi nainA kaDi
sakka kaDi maccik kaDi
tambik kaDi ezhundODi......
lakkaDi lakkaDi summA lakkaDi
akkA kaDi nannAk kaDi
mangA kaDi nainA kaDi
sakka kaDi maccik kaDi
tambik kaDi ezhundODi......
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ksrimech
- Posts: 1050
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 04:25
Re: The importance or otherwise of diction in rendering sahityas
Mutilation apart, the pallavi line is absolutely hilarious. 