The pernicious effect of moneybags on Carnatic music

[ragam-talam]

Do you want someone to hand over $250,000 and a list of artists to you so that you can manage the Cleveland Thyagaraja Aradhana?
<long rant follows>

It's pathetic how you use the classic 'attack a straw man' approach to your arguments/rants.
Your problem is something similar to the one that sweet-voiced singers have: they get carried away by their own sound, to the detriment of the content.
Try to spend less time on your silly Americanisms and other clever uses of the language, and concentrate on the content. Then hopefully you can make more sense.
And please, try to post at least one article where you don't mention abhangists etc. It's getting rather tiresome. Thanks.

[Nick H]

Abhangists? Abhangors (with Abhangees)? Abhanginators?

[arasi]

The angst of abhang-abolitionists

[sureshvv]

Try to spend less time on your silly Americanisms and other clever uses of the language, and concentrate on the content.

Nothing is sillier or more tiresome than dragging Peter Drucker kool-aid into a discussion on fostering CM.

[harimau]

It's pathetic how you use the classic 'attack a straw man' approach to your arguments/rants.
Your problem is something similar to the one that sweet-voiced singers have: they get carried away by their own sound, to the detriment of the content.
Try to spend less time on your silly Americanisms and other clever uses of the language, and concentrate on the content. Then hopefully you can make more sense.
And please, try to post at least one article where you don't mention abhangists etc. It's getting rather tiresome. Thanks.

You were the one who said you could do a better job and show a profit in running a music festival. I only asked if you expected someone to hand over cash to you and ask you to "execute a plan" which you would/could trim or you plan to start ab initio.

Here is an Americanism: Put our money where your mouth is.

Here is another one for you: Put up or shut up.

The third one is: Money talks and BS walks.

[ragam-talam]

And all I can say about you is this: You are so full of it.

[Nick H]

Now, now, boys and girls...

Puzzle for the day:

rearrange these words into a well-known phrase or saying...

feed do trolls the not

[munirao2001]

Professional Management of Event calls for Budgeting-Plan-Raising resources-Expenditure control-ensuring a minimum surplus. Strictly limit the programmed matching the resources deployed. Besides the individual patrons and institutional patrons, media rights revenue to be explored for resources augmentation. Gate collections to contribute only to the surplus. Case studies of successful events to be seriously studied and the best of practices to be adopted. High profile and role play for the patron(s) always yields patronage.

[VK RAMAN]

How about every one us "shape up or shipout"

[nirmalanatarajan]

I too am against blind innovations especially if done with only money in mind. But what money are we talking about here? Are we talking about millions (of even rupees)? What does one get in such concerts at the Aradhana? From whatever I have heard, most artists perform only for goodwill here.

“If two is good, five must be better” seems to have been the motive behind the Panchaveena program at the Cleveland Thyagaraja Aradhana this year. Somebody ought to tell the Cleveland folks that five is for pikers. The world record for the maximum number of veenas at a single event is held by Sri Sri Ravi Shankar of The Art of Living who organized some 500 (or maybe it was 2,500) vainikas in a concert in Bangalore some five years back..

Good one. Sri Sri also had a zillion violins and probably a million mridangams. But CTA is still asking for donations every year. So they have to just pike along.

GNB Fantasy concert

I didn't attend this but the aradhana.org schedule clearly mentions that Ravikiran was playing chitraveena. Do you mean to say that you still expected him to sing? Or was it just fantasy on your part?! And I don't think RK dives into innovations for the heck of it.

VKV's relevant point to the topic of this thread is lost, namely, not all organizers are necessarily moneybags, in fact the biggest one of them all is losing money

Agreed!

[ShrutiLaya]

High profile and role play for the patron(s) always yields patronage.

Isn't that what the original poster was complaining about .. the influence of such patrons on a concert, and on Carnatic Music itself ?

In an ideal world, money should be raised from a large number of small contributors who all love carnatic music. Unfortunately, this "business plan" suits small sabhas (in Shruti Laya, we get the significant majority of our funds through memberships and gate collections), but not the larger events.

- Sreenadh

[munirao2001]

Sreenadh,
Patrons with deep commitment and love for KM and also desire to be counted and noted for their contribution with positive mind and willingly give freedom to the event managers, are required in great numbers for the success. Contributions from other stake holders are also required-Govt and Media, in particular. The contributions from the rasikas-through gate collections and membership fees add and strengthen the base, no doubt. But is not at all sufficient for mega events, like Cleveland Thyagaraja aradhana festival. The reputation and self lessness qualities and proven of the main organizer(s) will act as a corrective influence and action for the domineering effect of ego centric patron.

[munirao2001]

In addition to my post/reply #108, I failed to mention yet another factor. The 'Will' to bear the losses by the event manager in the interest of the cause, if it is inevitable. But, this state of mind does not permit, regrets and disappointments!

[Ponbhairavi]

If " most artists perform only for goodwill " It will be hard to explain huge recurring losses unless the "goodwill" itself is a very costly goodwill. ponbhairavi

[cacm]

If " most artists perform only for goodwill " It will be hard to explain huge recurring losses unless the "goodwill" itself is a very costly goodwill. ponbhairavi

DO THE FIFTH FORM ARITHMETIC....WHAT ABOUT TRAVEL, ACCOMODATION FOOD & COSTS OTHER THAN ARTISTS FEES FOR CLOSE TO SIXTY PERSONS FROM INDIA TO N.A. & BACK. VKV

[munirao2001]

Rasikaforunites,
I urge you all to read the excellent article of Smt.Kalpana Mohan, with linkshttp://bit.ly/CMkmUSA, given by C.Mohan, her husband and also understand the immense contributions of Dr.VKV/Sundaram/Balu and few others in establishing KM in US of A.

[MV]

What a splendid article-both content and language. It is also splendid because it provokes so much thought and discussion. There will always be resistance to change and more so in a traditional art form which we 'almost' link to religion. I believe Music like religion is personal-I reserve the right to shrink my nose at a particular innovation while applauding another one. Whether for money or creativity, those in the field have to offer us that choice of scorning or applauding. From that purely objective point of view, the innovation or change has to happen.

[cacm]

What a splendid article-both content and language. It is also splendid because it provokes so much thought and discussion. There will always be resistance to change and more so in a traditional art form which we 'almost' link to religion. I believe Music like religion is personal-I reserve the right to shrink my nose at a particular innovation while applauding another one. Whether for money or creativity, those in the field have to offer us that choice of scorning or applauding. From that purely objective point of view, the innovation or change has to happen.

I TOTALLY agree with your RELEVENT & PROPER observations. VKV