Carnatic Concerts should be free of Rasikas

[isaipaithyam]

Carnatic concerts must be enjoyed for the beauty of the singer to connect with god through music and elevate the joy for the audiences. Unfortunately, it has become a business for the organizers and the volunteers around the organizers. Many times, most of the organizations/sabhas take advantage of the closeness to the artists for their personal gain either monetary or promoting their own kids. I think, artists must be freed of these politics and perform the concerts for the music lovers around the world. I have seen this particularly disturbing in several US cities.

I propose the following to preserve the glory of carnatic music for the sake of future generations
1) Have FREE concerts around the world encouraged by philanthropic minded individuals and businesses to sponsor concerts
2) Except a reasonable money spent on promoting the events, pay the artists in full from money collected from sponsors
3) Hosting the artists must be done by those who do not any personal agenda - for example have children of their own looking to benefit from close association with the organizers

This model will work only when the new organizers understand what is the reasonable payment to the concert artists team (vocal+violin+mridangam etc) to ensure the availability of donors contribution before getting commitment from the artists. Appreciate comments from organizers of past concerts and support my viewpoint.

[bilahari]

1. With one word, you have changed the entire meaning of your thread! Do you really want concerts to be free 'of' rasikas... or free 'for' rasikas?!
2. Easier said than done!

[mahakavi]

One broad swath of issues. There seems to be an indictment here which is not deserved. Hosting by people without children? Next, you might say no complimentary CDs by artistes to the host. Why would people who have children be prevented from hosting? Isn't an interaction with the artiste on a personal level healthy for aspiring youngsters?

Do you have a list of philanthropists with deep pockets willing to shell out the largesse to fund concerts? Pl let me know. I'd like to use them.

[mahakavi]

1. With one word, you have changed the entire meaning of your thread! Do you really want concerts to be free 'of' rasikas... or free 'for' rasikas?!

For a moment I thought he did not want rasikas to give their opinions about the concert.

[Nick H]

Fine, isaipaithyam... You start then.

Your first job is to find the financial backers. Let us know when you've achieved step one.

Your next step is to find workers, artists (and audience, for that matter), who are completely free of favouritism, politics, prejudice and all the other stuff that us imperfect humans carry around with us.

Suggest you let us know when you have made some progress with this: in the meantime, the rest of us will just enjoy our music, much of which, here in Chennai, is supported by philanthropic individuals and businesses.

[arasi]

Let's not forget that free concerts have been around for a long time and are still around. So, what is new about them? Veteran organizers like VKV will tell you stories even about ticketed concerts which were treated by some listeners as free concerts!
I'm afraid making 'all' concerts free makes a rasikA a freeloader and encourages a habit which speaks of no commitment. I am not talking about high ticket prices but a nominal price at least which every rasikA pays for his listening pleasure, at least once in a while. If we do not contribute a small amount for the entertainment we seek as we do for a movie, what is the part we play in supporting the music we love? Of course, I'm not saying that every concert has to be ticketed!

[VK RAMAN]

can any paithyam reach utopia?

[mahakavi]

KAraikkAl ammaiyAr (who was branded ghost and paittiyam) walked on her head to reach KailAsam. Yes, she almost did! But Lord Shiva told her to go to ThiruvAlangADu which is Utopia (for her and lots of others)

[VK RAMAN]

Let us hope for repeat of KAraikkAl ammaiyAr.

[Nick H]

I am afraid that having free concerts is, indeed bad for us.

Although I enjoy the atmosphere of the December season, I find a certain reluctance to pay to see performers I can see for free during the rest of the year! I am spoilt. We can see from the audience behaviour of many Chennai rasikas that they, too, are spoilt.

There is no harm in isaipaithyam stating what [s]he may see to be wrong with "the system", goodness knows we have enough threads here where we bemoan one or another aspect of it, but, for all that, we are stuck with the imperfect in an imperfect world --- and, in this instance, there is so much in that imperfect world that is extremely good, I don't think we are doing too badly.

It is tough, though, to compare Chennai with the rest of the world, for we do, indeed have an embarrassment of riches. I pass over names in the newspaper, with the thought, "next time...", that I would never have missed in London.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

Carnatic concerts must be enjoyed for the beauty of the singer to connect with god through music and elevate the joy for the audiences ...
... pay the artists in full from money collected from sponsors ...

I wonder why isaipaithyam has not suggested that all artistes should join together and give free performances for the joy of the audiences!

[kssr]

There is obvious bitterness in the person who has started this topic. It is mainly due to what he sees around him (U.S.?).
However if you take a bird's eye view of the carnatic music scene, even today most of what has been suggested is actually being practised.

1. A majority of concerts are held in temples and this is where most of today's great artists have started their careers. They are all invariably free concerts. Out of the major chennai sabhas, during the Season, most have free concerts most of the time- except for the one evening slot. In Bangalore most sabha concerts are free. (There are a few that charge but the halls have a lot of free oxygen for the few who attend!). Even in the case of the Fort high School Rama Navami season where around 50-60 days of concerts are held the charges are nominal for the entire season. People who attend the free concerts contribute some amount with pleasure.

2.Costs are met by individual and companies' sponsorships and it is always a hand to mouth situation. I do not know of any organiser who has become rich with the money "amassed" by conducting concerts. In most cases people start as donors for the cause of CM and eventually also try their hand in organising concerts themselves. They spend from their pocket with pleasure.

3. Artists, in my experience have been very cooperative and once they are convinced of the genuineness of our organisation, come and perform for very small remunerations. They will, of course, make it elsewhere, when they can and we cannot complain about that. There are, I also know, are extremely demanding ones but most organisations can do without them. They are also a minority in comparison.

4. What special benefit I can get for my son/ daughter from a big artist just by hosting him? If he/she cannot sing, he/she will be a failure, whoever encourages him/her. At best the child can be enrolled as a student under the artist. It is a win/win situation and does not hurt anybody, after all.

I should admit that I have no idea whatsoever about the U.S.scenario. But in India the understanding and cooperation between organisers, artists and audience is very healthy. There is no big money involved. No governmental contribution or interference. I think that we should not be cribbing and cribbing but try to make the best of the tradition that we have inherited. We can of course try to remove small flaws and keep improving; but to be complaining without having any possible alternative suggestion is not desirable for the healthy development of this great art.

[ShrutiLaya]

(quote="bilahari")1. With one word, you have changed the entire meaning of your thread! Do you really want concerts to be free 'of' rasikas... or free 'for' rasikas?!
(/quote)

For a moment I thought he did not want rasikas to give their opinions about the concert.

Perhaps he meant "free of organizers"! Most of his ire is directed against them

- Sreenadh

[fduddy]

Perhaps another attack aimed at Cleveland

[mahakavi]

As for free concerts in the US, it is out of qustion (although the first poster might have drawn inspiration from free concerts in Chennai and vicinity). First of all there is one big chunk of funding the travel, both international and domestic. Secondly, the remuneration for the artistes (even if modest) plus the rental for the halls ( be it in schools, public museums, or community centers) have to be met from the sabha revenues. The sabhas already get decent donations (apart from modest membership fees) from some benevolent individuals. There aren't that many corporate sponsors (except say Cleveland or some other place). Even then some artistes and some locations (especially temples) provide occasional free concerts. There is always room for improvement. But then which endeavor in our lives is perfect?

[Nick H]

purely corporate sponsors, even if they are glad to be able to contribute to something that they believe in, are in it for the commercial aspects. Thus there will be banners on the stage, and there will be pressure to fill the seats with people to see those banners. Commercial sponsorship will never be the route to purist classical music.

The only exceptions to this may be individual or family businesses, who do not have to account to shareholders. Chennai is lucky enough to have one or two of these: just being a city in India is not at enough to guarantee them.

[MV]

I certainly don't support free concerts and it is unfair/unlikely for few philanthropists to cater to all music needs through the year. Living abroad, you pay good money for rock/pop concerts, western classical concerts, stage shows, musicals and so on. I can't see why we need to undersell ourselves. What I would like to see is a review of the western model and see how we can adapt it to ours, because it works.

[kssr]

The reason for the rapid growth of CM at all levels, among all other classical music forms, is that it has been woven into our cultural fabric. Most performances are low key taking place in temples and so on. Even young inexperienced people get a stage to perform. The growth is directly attributable to keeping the costs low. Artists charge less (compare with HM), listeners pay less, organisers spend less. So there is a lot of CM everywhere. Of course some survive and others die out. But at the end of the day there is growth. This is our model.

If we try to imitate other models- pop concert, for instance, which is not a classical art form but with huge less technical following, and start charging/ spending huge amounts, CM will start shrinking. I do not recommend free concerts myself. But keeping the costs low is the key factor which has been aiding in the growth of our music.

[Nick H]

Hmmm... I don't think 10,000 people will ever crowd into a carnatic music concert, and if they did, I would not want to be there.

I don't know, but I would be surprised if any but the most major/popular western-classical performances have what they would describe as a satisfactory audience. Many live by grants and so on.

It does seem to me that artists should be able to make a decent living from their art. There can't be too many carnatic musicians that do, although the foreign tours must have changed this for those established in that. Keeping the costs low would have to include paying the artists less, wouldn't it?

[MV]

Nick-I agree we'll never get 10k crowd and like you I would avoid a noise factory like that. Which is why I said we need to remodel to our need. Instead of individual efforts, I'm wondering if there needs to be a bigger picture organisation. Too much over-exposure of the artiste also kills the view from a general public point. At the same time, I agree that a musician should be able to make a decent living off his trade without too much grovelling. I would like to see a combination -a few well-organised events say every month in different cities. Chamber Music for the real enthusiasts where the artiste can really let his/her hair down and sing those ghana kirtanams/rare ragams which get left behind because they might not 'appeal'. Better management is what I'm saying

[VK RAMAN]

We have western models in concerts by Lata Mangeshkar and other Cine singers. I remember one of those in Rabindra Sarobar Stadium by the Lake in Calcutta some time 1968 or so when several Cine music artists were invited including Lata, Mohamed Rafi, etc and in the middle of the concert a riot outside the stadium resulted in stampede inside the stadium of 10000 or so fans. Do we need to repeat of such mess? I agree with Nick I would not want to be there.

[cienu]

Hmmm... I don't think 10,000 people will ever crowd into a carnatic music concert,

There were two benefit Carnatic concerts (ticketed) of MS held in Mumbai (then Bombay) sometime in the very early 1950's , one was in Brabourne Cricket Stadium and the other in Mahalakshmi Race Course, which had a massive audience.

I have heard MKR's mother (Chinani Mami) describe this & say that MS's popularity in the post Meera days was incredible.

BTW, should'nt the title be "Free for Rasikas" instead if "Free of Rasikas" ?

{Edit} - I see Bilahari has made the same point in post # 2

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Cienu is correct--My father was approached by C.H.Bhabha(cousin of Homi Bhabha-the Scientist) for a big charity event for which he wanted MS Mami to sing and he expected a crowd of 6 to 7 thousand--the Tatas and the Bhabha family were involved and tickets were priced affordably. No auditorium in those days-it was the fifties-- was big enough to accommodate the big crowd. When my father was hesitating about what were the alternatives, boldly came the suggestion from C.H. Bhaba(at that time his family held controlling interest in the Central Bank of India which was one of the top private banks before the Nationalisation) that we should hold it in Brabourne Stadium(the Bhabhas had connections with the Cricket Club of India a private club that owned the Stadium so that the permission was granted without any reservation--Incidentally as I recall that was the FIRST time the Stadium was host to a Non-Sporting event.

An interesting sidebar re: the remuneration for the concert--with my father as go-between TS Mama suggested what at that time was a big amount(I will not go into the details ). CHBhabha without batting an eyelid agreed-- I was told the concert thro tickets alone raised over Rs.One lakh--the high denomination tickets Rs. 1000 and Rs. 500(big sums in the fifties) alone fetched the bulk of the "gate". A shamiana was constructed on the field close to the Pavilion and guests were seated on chairs on the lawn the last row almost touching the pitch!!! MS mami did as much obeisance to the "Pitch" as she did to hers!!!!

Tailpiece: TS Mama --true to form -- paid the accompaniments generously,and except for First class Rly tickets from madras to Bombay(I prefer to use the old names!!!), for his entourage--10 or 12 excluding the accompaniments(Rajaji's famous quip, Sadasivam seems to take a crowd with him for MS Amma's concerts because he is afraid there may not be enough crowds and so does not want to take any chances!!! ) and the REST to charities .
Am sorry this piece has swerved too far away from the thread!! My apologies!!!

[arasi]

Not at all, MKR!
Cienu,
Thanks for mentioning this mega event (events)

As always, the story sings along, at'tune'd to the great lady's music. While everything about her music and her qualities inspire your writing, we are not forgetting your story-telling skills. I loved your: MS Mami did as much obeisance to the "pitch " as she did to hers!!!

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Arasi> Thanks for your kind comments-Words are not adequate to express how great a human being Mami was !! If Mami were alive she would have typically reacted to my comment about the "Pitch"--Ramesh, UN VAIKKU SAKKARAI PODANUM"i

[Nick H]

I guess it is just personal, but I would be very unwilling to attend a concert with an audience of thousands.

I don't know how many of my fellow rasikas have attended any rock concerts? Or, perhaps worse, festivals. At least that kind of music is usually intended to be blasted at a volume where it can be heard quite some way away. However, the experience of live music, for me, is partly the experience of seeing the artists performing it, and massive video screens are not an alternative that appeals to me: I'd rather see it in comfort, on the television at home!

Can't say that I have attended many rock concerts since my early twenties, but I do recall one about 18 years ago which must have had a crowd of around ten thousand. It was comfortable due to the very high quality of the sound equipment and engineering, and I was in a position where I could appreciate the performers. I don't think I could have appreciated a carnatic 'band' on that stage though!