THE PERILS OF IMITATION

[ganeshkant]

Recently there was a hue and cry about certain musicians who have not got sufficient recognition but supposed to be talented.One among them was Kasturi Rangan.Yeaterday I heard him in FM gold @ 7 a.m and hence posting this since he was imitating TNS unmindful of his doing so.

One may be immensely talented.The word Talent itself is highly subjective.But here what I feel is if you are imitating your guru who is living and on the top you are doomed.NSG in his initial days did the same and I remember the critic captioned " VENDAAME VIKATA KUTCHERI " during a review in Vikatan in the 80's.He slowly changed his ways either intentionally or forced to since he had problems with his throat later.

You may imbibe your Guru's style and without imitating is it difficult to perform ? Last week I was listening to an AIR concert of late Thiruvarur Namasivayam and I was just guessing who it could be that is singing like SSI but with a very good voice till I knew the name at the end.So folks I feel it is better this way.

But if U take violin and percussion,they may escape with little scathing unlike vocalists.In the 80s I was literally irritated to hear copies of LGJ.Now it is the turn of MC.Rather percussionists get a pat if they play like their Guru.I myself have done that.Once a friend of mine who had a chance of traveling with a percussion legend in train for 10 hrs told that when talking about his disciples when my friend told " X plays just like U " for which the legend retorted by saying " Of what good it is.He has to do some thing of his own " and we should take that as a representation from all Gurus.

So, I request all those who are imitating to abstain from that if they seriously want recognition
otherwise their hard work may go unnoticed and ignored.

[srikant1987]

But if U take violin and percussion,they may escape with little scathing unlike vocalists.

The thing is vocalists' imitation of their guru can go much further beyond an instrumentalist's can. Since vocalists have their hands and eyes free (most instrumentalists have their eyes free too, of course, but then there's some place where someone new to the stage had better be looking), they can imitate a lot of non-musical elements from their gurus, and do so in a manner very recognizable to even an average rasika. This can get extremely sickening indeed!

Listening to listening, imitation of an ornate style can be more sickening than that of a plain one.

[mahakavi]

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"
It helps to gain the guru's attention and temporarily boost the guru's self-image too. Looking at the disciple's performance is like looking himself in the mirror. But the guru, in all earnestness, should dissuade his disciple from that. Therein comes mentoring.

In this instance, a mentor other than the guru (not necessarily a musician) could come in handy to help the junior musician modify his pattern.

[arasi]

Good points, Ganeshkant. However, it's not as if the gurus themselves may fail to alert them about this--your fellow-traveler, the mrudangist would have done this. It's not as if the emerging performers are not aware of this pitfall. Besides rasikAs, there are dozens of others-- family, friends and their audience. Of course, they themselves are aware of it. It's natural to imitate (easy during the learning stages) but as they get more confident and proficient, it's a good idea to shed the imitation bit and start being individualistic. Of course, the stamp of their guru and his/her style will prevail, for his own benefit and for that of the rasikAs.
Yes, we tend to notice it more in vocalists because their hand gestures too remind us of their gurus!
It is natural for them to be inspired by their gurus and it comes out in their performance, stylewise and visually too. Yet, they are (and in some cases, we hope they are) aware that they need to have a stamp of their own to carve out a career for themselves.

[sureshvv]

ganeshkant:

I am afraid you may be rushing to hasty and harsh judgment. While it is readily apparent that the guru's style has rubbed off quite strongly on the student, if you listen to him a few more times especially live, I am sure that you will grant that the style has been internalized deeply and it is not mere "IMITATION" as you refer to it here. As to developing a personal style, I am sure that is something that evolves over time and adopting one for its own sake to silence the critics will not fare any better than the imitation option.

[VRV]

Very interesting topic. Like they say "Imitation is the highest form of Flattery" From a students point of you, one must try very hard to emulate ones guru. This will automatically reduce the imitation factor. Given the depth of Carnatic music, this can happen only after many years of stage performance and learning.

Vinod

[cienu]

I am afraid you may be rushing to hasty and harsh judgment. While it is readily apparent that the guru's style has rubbed off quite strongly on the student, if you listen to him a few more times especially live, I am sure that you will grant that the style has been internalized deeply and it is not mere "IMITATION" as you refer to it here. .

I agree.
Infact I would go to the extent of saying that a newcomer on stage must sing exactly as the Guru had taught him/her. And in future too while the shishya must develop his/her own style, one should not stray too far away from the roots.

[cmlover]

I have a question..
Do the performers sing the kritis of the Trinity the way they were originally sung?
The songs have been passed on through regular shishya parampara system.
Some time ago BMk disputed the way T kritis are sung now. Is he right?

[ShrutiLaya]

So, I request all those who are imitating to abstain from that if they seriously want recognition
otherwise their hard work may go unnoticed and ignored.

Just a thought .. I don't know the specific young musician you're talking about, but isn't it really a continuum here? At the very beginning of their career, the young musicians might actually benefit greatly by reminding listeners of their (established and highly regarded) guru. Once they themselves are established, the best of them feel secure enough to explore and develop their own style, and go on to become great masters themselves. Even if we step outside the CM world, Mukesh used to sound like Saigal in his early songs, SPB used to imitate Ghantasala etc.,

- Sreenadh

[Sam Swaminathan]

I cannot but agree with cienu and sureshpv with their observations. Any new comer to the stage will, in the initial instance, tend to follow the guru in more respects than one, including , in some instances, the hand gestures. This is unavoidable. Look at children, they tend to act and gesticulate like their parents. This is some thing "internal". It is not as if they are "imitating". Couple of years down the road, the student will develop his/her own style, but, in spite of every thing. there will still be the shades of their guru, and this coming out sub-consciously rather than being deliberate. And, pardon me, what is wrong with bringing out shades of the guru, here and there?

[Pratyaksham Bala]

I agree with Sam Swaminathan.

[thenpaanan]

I have a question..
Do the performers sing the kritis of the Trinity the way they were originally sung?
The songs have been passed on through regular shishya parampara system.
Some time ago BMk disputed the way T kritis are sung now. Is he right?

I have wondered about this too. If we take the word-for-word translations of T kritis provided by savants like Shri Govindan it is hard to imagine the composer would have sung his kritis as we sing them. The kritis seem to have undergone significant changes, perhaps to fit the concert platform, for janaranjakam (to be entertaining for the masses), or simply swept by the winds of prevailing fashion which change from era to era.

Let us start from as far back as is feasible. There are only a few recordings of the generation of musicians with Tiger, Mysore VAsudevAchArya, and others and so one must be careful to not infer too much. A couple of things are strongly evident across all the available recordings -- first, in terms of overall raga chaayai and sangati construction we are singing today in a very similar way to our forebears, and second, kritis were sung in a significantly faster pace compared to today's rendering. Indeed VAsudevAchAryA's singing is surprisingly fast in the recordings. Even the next generation of singers like ARI, MVI, Chembai, and Musiri sang in almost exclusively brisk-paced styles. GNB pointed this out explicitly. If you take an artist like SSI who spanned the generations one can tell that the pace is slowing down over the decades. Veena Dhanammal seems the exception to the rule but she was not a concert musician. Even if one considers sampling error in the recordings both in singer and in kriti, one gets the impression that the whole idea of singing slow tempo chauka kAlam kritis (as we generally use the term today) must be a twentieth century innovation.

Taking a random but more accessible example, consider the way MD's grand opus in siva(shubha)pantuvaRaLi "shrI satyanArAyanam" is sung. There is a difference in the treatment between ARI's rendering and say that of KVN or TNS which makes (to my mind) a big difference in overall effect. Furthermore, even when a kriti is sung at less than the usual brisk pace, the neraval almost immediately went to fast pace (so called madhyamakAlam, which is a relative rather than absolute term, hence not very useful in this discussion).

However, it is hard to imagine that contemplative kritis from T or most of the kritis of MD could have been sung at a brisk pace without committing atrocities on the lyrics. So what is the explanation? Could it be that the pace of kriti singing was modified to suit the concert platform? MD and T kritis were not originally sung in concerts by the composers and thus not intrinsically designed as such? If that is the case what does that say about continuity and pATAntaram which we hold sacred? What about other aspects of kriti singing that could have been modified so BMK may be right at least in the sense that we should give up the pretense that we can/should sing a kriti like the composer would have?

-Then Paanan

[arasi]

Then paanan,
Interesting thoughts. Yes, the concert platform did and will bring in changes--an individual singer's style and preferences, the prevailing trend in presentation, one's looking into the mood of the song to suit the speed, one's own particular mood that day, wanting to sing that particular rAga but not having the time to sing it in vilamba kAlam, the rAgam somehow fitting nicely as a filler between two heavies but is not a filler really...and I'm sure others can think of some more reasons. So, the individual performer, his needs on the stage that day, his personal preferences, state of his voice etc decide the pace of the song. I realize how important his/her charting out the song list is too! Even those who say they don't make a list, are making one at a sub-conscious level.
Now, how did the trinity go about it? I believe that in the grip of inspiration, they sang a song out with emotion. However slow in pace the song happened to be, they would have sung it in one go (in a rush?) which doesn't necessarily mean speedily. Though I'm an insignificant composer, I hope I can say that I have a glimpse of the way a song happened to them. Knowing and being around other composers too as I was growing up at several instances of such moments makes me say that. I also know there are other composers (even on Rasikas) who may not at all agree with what I think.

[rajeshnat]

Then paanan
I think coming to slow style of singing , I think the trendsetter was indeed MDR ,he kind of applied brake to too much of acceleration before . I would say the era of musicians beginning with santhAnam etc are in the right controlled speed in the sense not as fast as say early GNB or not as slow as MDR , kind of musicians in a way have got adjusted to the right speed, perhaps suiting the most critical mass of rasikas who prefer a middle ground .

[Purist]

Thenpannan Wrote "Let us start from as far back as is feasible. There are only a few recordings of the generation of musicians with Tiger, Mysore VAsudevAchArya, and others and so one must be careful to not infer too much. A couple of things are strongly evident across all the available recordings -- first, in terms of overall raga chaayai and sangati construction we are singing today in a very similar way to our forebears, and second, kritis were sung in a significantly faster pace compared to today's rendering. Indeed VAsudevAchAryA's singing is surprisingly fast in the recordings. Even the next generation of singers like ARI, MVI, Chembai, and Musiri sang in almost exclusively brisk-paced styles. GNB pointed this out explicitly. If you take an artist like SSI who spanned the generations one can tell that the pace is slowing down over the decades. Veena Dhanammal seems the exception to the rule but she was not a concert musician. Even if one considers sampling error in the recordings both in singer and in kriti, one gets the impression that the whole idea of singing slow tempo chauka kAlam kritis (as we generally use the term today) must be a twentieth century innovation. "


If your inference 'kritis were sung in a significantly faster pace' is based on recordings of past
masters then I fear it could be flawed. Most of these recordings were on gramphone records which had a very limited time duration (about 6 min in 78 rpm, 8-10 min in EP and 20 min in LP of much later origin). The artists had to squeeze alapana,nereval ,swara and even briefest thani. This necessarily meant fast and brisk tempo. It is very unlikely that they would have folllowed such a style in a kutcheri.
Musiri was a master of chauka kala. As for SSI or even any one else slowing down over the decades, it has lot to do with 'age factor' .
If you take a further step back (the pallavi era ), there are refernces to artists who could
sing for hours (...or days ) a particular raga or a pallavi.
Thus chauka kalam is not a 20th century innovation. Both Vilamabam and Dhrut styles existed in the past, exists in the present and will perhaps exist in future. |( |( [img][Update]

[kssr]

The line dividing "following the footsteps of your guru" and an "imitation" is unclear and thin. After all, singing the pallavi's sangathis in the same way is inevitable being one's sishya. I would say that the deciding differentiating factor is manodharma. If the sishya has developed his own manodharma instead of copying the guru's swara and neraval patterns, then he can be classified as a good independent singer and not an imitation.

In my opinion, Kasthuri Rangan is a good singer in his own right. I have heard a few of his full concerts.

[thenpaanan]

Thenpannan Wrote "Let us start from as far back as is feasible. There are only a few recordings of the generation of musicians with Tiger, Mysore VAsudevAchArya, and others and so one must be careful to not infer too much. A couple of things are strongly evident across all the available recordings -- first, in terms of overall raga chaayai and sangati construction we are singing today in a very similar way to our forebears, and second, kritis were sung in a significantly faster pace compared to today's rendering. Indeed VAsudevAchAryA's singing is surprisingly fast in the recordings. Even the next generation of singers like ARI, MVI, Chembai, and Musiri sang in almost exclusively brisk-paced styles. GNB pointed this out explicitly. If you take an artist like SSI who spanned the generations one can tell that the pace is slowing down over the decades. Veena Dhanammal seems the exception to the rule but she was not a concert musician. Even if one considers sampling error in the recordings both in singer and in kriti, one gets the impression that the whole idea of singing slow tempo chauka kAlam kritis (as we generally use the term today) must be a twentieth century innovation. "


If your inference 'kritis were sung in a significantly faster pace' is based on recordings of past
masters then I fear it could be flawed. Most of these recordings were on gramphone records which had a very limited time duration (about 6 min in 78 rpm, 8-10 min in EP and 20 min in LP of much later origin). The artists had to squeeze alapana,nereval ,swara and even briefest thani. This necessarily meant fast and brisk tempo. It is very unlikely that they would have folllowed such a style in a kutcheri.
Musiri was a master of chauka kala. As for SSI or even any one else slowing down over the decades, it has lot to do with 'age factor' .
If you take a further step back (the pallavi era ), there are refernces to artists who could
sing for hours (...or days ) a particular raga or a pallavi.
Thus chauka kalam is not a 20th century innovation. Both Vilamabam and Dhrut styles existed in the past, exists in the present and will perhaps exist in future. |( |( [img][Update]

My observations are not based primarily on gramaphone records but fragments of what seem to be AIR recordings or private concerts. The contexts of the recordings are not reliably available nor is it clear what the source recording medium was, my guess is spool tape. In any case, the contents of the recordings vary from thanam singing to extensive neraval and kalpanaswara (most of which get brutally clipped on the short gramaphone records). While your point about the effect of recording medium is not completely out of question, the subjective impression I get is that the singers were not singing in some abnormal (for them) fashion. Another point to consider is whether slow tempo singing was appropriate for the open auditoria of those days without help from artificial amplification.

As for "chauka kAlam," this is a relative term, meaning chaukam is anything slower than madhyamakAlam (taken either within the context of one singer or within a more general context of accepted madhyamakAlam for the times). Even if Shri Musiri was considered the chaukam king, how slow was he singing? As an example, his "tiruvadi sharanam" is not slow compared to more modern singers like MDR or TM Krishna. If there are examples of slower singing in olden times please point out. I am guessing (with no evidence yet) that what passed for chaukam then would surprise us.

As for the question of how CMusicians of previous centuries sang for hours in a particular raga, it still boggles my mind as to what exactly could have been sung (at _any_ kAlam) for that long without ample repetitions and silence intervals?

Perhaps audiences back then were more tolerant of repetition or perhaps kriti-based concerts have given rise to a certain attention deficit disorder in CM audiences? At least that is the conclusion I reach after comparing CM and HM audiences these days.

-Then Paanan

[Radhika-Rajnarayan]

Coming straight to the present day performances and audiences, 'Attention deficit disorder' is very rightly put by thenpaaanan. Surely there is nothing wrong in repetition of a phrase as long as it emphasises the mood of the raga (with the proviso that it is not overdone and over-repeated). And silences actually help the listener-rasika absorb the previous phrase and enjoy it better! It is indeed unfortunate that there are many performers who go through a raga alapana sancharam-by-sancharam almost as if to say 'Ok, that one over, next --' and the listeners too have got into the same mode. Where is the deep enjoyment of each note? Unless the performer enjoys each note and phrase, and successfully transmits this feeling of musical-joy to the rasika, the process of the raga delineation as an art form cannot be said to be successful. An 'aachu, adutthadhu' kind of expectation and performance is technical display of virtuosity, and not an artistic delineation of the raga. I have actually attended a concert in Mysore where a raga delineation of 10 minutes was commented upon by my immediate neighbour as 'raga hecchayitu' (the raga was too much). What a sad comment on the audience appreciation capacity!
I agree with 'purist' that the so-called 'fast-paced' recordings of the olden days are due to the fact that they had to squeeze everything into 3 minutes to fit in the 78-rpm records, and I am sure many of them would have been unhappy about it!

[munirao2001]

Then paanan
To your post "As for the question of how CMusicians of previous centuries sang for hours in a particular raga, it still boggles my mind as to what exactly could have been sung (at _any_ kAlam) for that long without ample repetitions and silence intervals?", leaving the hefty margin for myth of singing of a particular raga for hours and days, the long duration singing of a particular raga was being sung-thristhayee-stage by stage-adhara shadja-madhyama-tara, ending up in madhyama, as per raga lakshana sampradaya. Each stage consisted of raga sancharas-both prasidha and aprisadha exposition taken from masterpieces by various vaggeyakaras, one after the other. Raga alapana said to be of min.30minutes and max.90 minutes. Repetitions, unavoidable but, were minimal. Visradhi-apt pauses, between rasa pushti sancharas were frequently resorted to, for enhanching the rasanubhavam. The disciplined and focus on repertoire for sadhana and mastery, enabled Great Maestros to sing for extra/long hours. Highly knowledgeable rasikas with ample leisure times and devotion also made it possible.

[thenpaanan]

Then paanan
To your post "As for the question of how CMusicians of previous centuries sang for hours in a particular raga, it still boggles my mind as to what exactly could have been sung (at _any_ kAlam) for that long without ample repetitions and silence intervals?", leaving the hefty margin for myth of singing of a particular raga for hours and days, the long duration singing of a particular raga was being sung-thristhayee-stage by stage-adhara shadja-madhyama-tara, ending up in madhyama, as per raga lakshana sampradaya. Each stage consisted of raga sancharas-both prasidha and aprisadha exposition taken from masterpieces by various vaggeyakaras, one after the other. Raga alapana said to be of min.30minutes and max.90 minutes. Repetitions, unavoidable but, were minimal. Visradhi-apt pauses, between rasa pushti sancharas were frequently resorted to, for enhanching the rasanubhavam. The disciplined and focus on repertoire for sadhana and mastery, enabled Great Maestros to sing for extra/long hours. Highly knowledgeable rasikas with ample leisure times and devotion also made it possible.

Munirao,

With all due respect, what you are describing is in theory. The treatises of yore prescribe that rAgavistAra should be done in the way you describe. We can only base our imagination on very sketchy descriptions of what was actually sung. For example, we have a description of mahA vaidyanAtha sivan as having sung RTPs lasting an hour as a normal matter in his concerts but we have lost any real connection to that way of singing -- I have myself never heard more than ten minutes or so of alapana -- my point is that we don't have any way to know what was sung back then in real terms.

We have such long alapana in HM concerts but their approach to constructing an alapana in a practical operational sense is very different from ours.

I contend that the contemporary approach to CM alapana is simply incompatible with alapana lasting more than twenty minutes. This approach encompasses not just what we sing in terms of raga phrases etc but also the larger context. Our alapanas are without drum accompaniment. A performance where the rhythm accompaniments have nothing to do for longer than that is a practical matter of sensibility we have to consider as well. :^)

Opinion apart, how we have transitioned so completely from long alapana of which we only have second-hand knowledge to "bite-sized" capsules of raga sketches is food for thought.

-Then Paanan

[Sivaramakrishnan]

If a sishya sings like his Guru, it is imitation.
If the Guru's son sings like him, it's a case of legacy carried forward!

[munirao2001]

Then paanan,
The time constraints of modern era has taken its toll. If rasikas welcome and encourage the performances which contain the pure sampradaya based music and the event organizers arrange more and more thematic concerts with this objective, we have amidst us, Great Maestros and Maestros, who can give us the unalloyed pleasure and happiness of experiencing the pristine and pure music. It is simply, demand and supply situation. If not the sabha concerts, chamber concerts can be organized with this goal and objective. If four hour concerts can be arranged by Great Maestros/Maestros with total freedom for concert planning, they can offer us long duration raga vistara and 90 minutes RTP. Rasikas commitment , dedication and patronage is the real key to open the treasures.

Even in HM concerts, the Alap is no longer structured as per the tradtion, due to time constraints.

[jagan]

ganeshkant,

Tiruvarur Namasivayam was the disciple of Tiruppamburam Swaminatha Pillai

[ganeshkant]

Jagan,

I didn't know that.But I have heard that he has sung along with TMT and is a follower of SSI which was quite evident in his singing.

[jagan]

yes. He has sung with TMT and if I remember correct along with SSI also once.
SSI has told me that he has learnt many things from Pillai.

[vs_manjunath]

To be very frank, i keep enjoying MMI's records repeatedly. Every time one listens to his renditions, the listener is always refreshed. I am really sorrry to write that i have limitation in enjoying TVS's concerts. The answer may be the Subject of Discussion.

[arasi]

Manjunath,
Yes. Imitation is the best form of admiration but instead of stopping right there, when admiration leads to emulation and inspiration to jump start one's own creativity, then it's ideal.
Also, inspiration comes from many sources.

[vs_manjunath]

arasi-very good analysis.

[thenpaanan]

To be very frank, i keep enjoying MMI's records repeatedly. Every time one listens to his renditions, the listener is always refreshed. I am really sorrry to write that i have limitation in enjoying TVS's concerts. The answer may be the Subject of Discussion.

It may be a peculiarity of singers as opposed to instrumentalists. One may be able to imitate another performer very closely in the artistic dimensions but voice is a peculiar instrument with an enormous emotional dimensionality in that we relate to someone's voice very differently than to the sound of that person playing a violin or flute. Imitating someone's voice in singing (in comparison with other forms of mimicry such as imitating speech) may be well nigh impossible.

TVS may be close to MMI on all attributes except he has a (possibly slightly) different voice, which may make a whole world of difference to a listener who is an MMI fan. Is this accurate from your experience?

A related question to the instrumentalists on the forum: is it possible for one instrumentalist to imitate another perfectly?.

-Then Paanan

[kapali]

mmi had an unique and inimitable style of singing suitable to his voice. Further his innovative and creative ways of rendering alapana,niraval and sarvalaghu swaras was something special(that endeared him to his huge following of fans) and cannot be immitated.So much so his bani could not be imprinted even in his sishyas' singing. I have personally heard most of his fans mention that after hearing mmi's rendering of many songs they find it very difficult to listen with the same fervour to other musician's rendering of the same. So for such a devoted following of MMI , TVS also happens to be one among that group and is no exception! After MMI`S demise many of his disappointed fans were longing for his style of music and TVS at the early phases of his career did adopt some of MMI's style,choosing MMI's popular songs requested by rasikas and became popular. But he had to gradually devise his own style and repoirtir suitable to his voice ,as without MMI's creativity(which was unique), it was not possible to command the same fervour.

[cacm]

Maharajapuram Viswanatha Iyer, ARI, MMI&GNB,SSI were ORIGINALS & anyone trying to imitate or imagine they were TRUE HEIRS OR DESCENDENTS can only COME TO GRIEF as THEY CANNOT come close to them UNLESS they are SMART like Santhanam or KVN who used their base, training and utilised their style& training and developed their own GENIUS & projected their own creativity......Of course any one successful has ENOUGH talent but its a different proposition when you are up against Einstonian or Feynmanian levels of sheer GENIUS. Actually Santhanam when he came to North America would spend his time listening to MVI if any one had any of mvi's recordings......EGO is a subject well addressed in our philosophy but it's unfortunately a powerful universal theorem. An entire GENERATION of musicians has UNSUCCESSFULLY tried to imitate GNB & HAS PROVED IT CANNOT BE DONE.We should all admire Trissur V.Ramachandran whose study& devotion to GNB is UNPARALLED....Unfortunately its easy now a days to pretty much fake it & get away with it for various reasons to such an extent that most of the so called heirs mostly have learnt & reproduce mostly the defects of the greats & can get away with it for various reasons.........Still its great to see Carnatic Music draws more crowds& fans.......VKV

[vs_manjunath]

Violinists following the styles of their masters upto a certain extent, no rasika complains. The examples may be Rukmini following LGJ, Mysore M Nagaraj following MSG, It's not pure imitation. They follow the same baani of their masters upto a certain extent. They do have their originalities also. there by rasikas won't complain. Also mostly they accompany main artistes so much so they are also supposed to follow the manodharmam of the vocalist, so they have made their names as good accompanists.During their solo performances one can judge how much is their originality and how much they imitate. In the case of Vocalists, the same approach is required. Traces to display they are disciples of MMI or GNB is fine. The originality of the artiste in his creativity resulting in a manodharmam which is new from his predecessors is what a true rasika looks for. KVN although a disciple of ARI excelled due to these attributes.

[mohan]

Hindustani music has the 'gharAna' system which can be correlated to the bAni. The gharana links a musician to a particular style be it a khyal, dhrupad, intrumental or tabla style. Imitation is rarely mentioned in Hindustani music, however, if a Carnatic musician follows the style of another musician then it is labeled as imitation. Over time a musician's own style evolves into something unique.

[mridhangam]

Genius Begins by imitation ... and hence for anyone to get hold of a particular form or format imitation of a master becomes inevitable. More so in the case of Carnatic music which thrived mostly on Gurukula system where the sishya imbibed most of the qualities of the Guru by being close with him on most of the occasions. Now a days also it is true in the sense that eventhough the gurukula system has become somewhat extinct still the use of other gadjets like video of the guru and other available media makes it all the more easy for any aspirant to imitate the guru or even their idols. Actually speaking a child learns many things thru imitation only and after a certain stage develops his or her own personality which takes different number of years for different children. In the same way to get out of the clutch of imitation it takes time. The process of evolution is time consuming and varied. We must allow the artiste to evolve himself and bring the best in him. If an artiste is able to find himself through imitation well and good and if he is not then the question of imitation arises. I am also aware of the perils of waiting. Since the time frame for evolution cant be quantified i fully agree with Ganeshkant's rants about a particular artiste. While giving allowances for the artiste's maturity i think age alone should not matter. In such a subjective matter as carnatic music and imitation the creativity comes to the forefront than gestures and mannerisms. Still many want to hear Madurai Mani Iyer being imitated or reproduced. If some one sings like MMIyer still people love it and i have seen it in many concerts. Sir Kannai Moodindu ketta appadiye MMIYer kekkara maadiri irukku. What do u call this response from rasikas ? One more reason could be this . As MMIyer is no more amidst us the imitation goes well with a section of audience may be even the majority. Whereas for the artiste in question the Guru is still in thick of action and may be that is the reason for not taking the imitation in sense and form. Still i am not able really find out whether to accept or deny but when i play i feel really nice sometimes. Our music thrives on retrospection mostly. We still talk about some of the best music of our respective times. Hence imitation could be taken as an opportunity to listen to the masters retrospectively. All said and done it is better for an artiste to find his or her true inner soul and evolve as early as possible for which a guru's guiding light is utmost required. Most of the times exact reproduction brings a sense of personal achievement in an artiste. In the process many have found their own personal true spirits and have come out successfully and have made and are still making a mark in this field. The major issue here is that the imitation of a particular artiste as such and not about the ideas i think. Since most of the ideas are borrowed and presented in different coatings. If an idea is imitated it can well be taken but not the imitation of a personality. A famous example could be that of Rajinikanth in film world. There can be only one of his kind anyone who tries to imitate is bound to meet with failure. But there are many who have taken his ideas and have done successfully in the filmworld. In the same way for an artiste to travel from imitation of the form of the master to the ideas of the master is an arduous journey and we all hope that it comes sooner.

Mannarkoil J.Balaji

[munirao2001]

Imitation is resorted to by the performer to gain quick acceptance of the rasikas, who are die hard/ardent rasikas of the Original performer/Maestro/Guru, relatively easier manner. But what is expected is imbibing the quality of the music and developing performer's vidwath e.g. MVI-SSI/SSRAO,ARI-KVN, DKP-DKJ, SSI-TMT/PSN.

[arasi]

Munirao,
Very true. Imbibing their quality and going one step further and sculp ing their own style.
VKV gives very good examples in his posts.

[ksrimech]

MVI-SSI/SSRAO,ARI-KVN, DKP-DKJ, SSI-TMT/PSN.

SSI-TMK. TMK's swaraprastharas in rAgAs like SankarAbharaNam, kIravANi, SrIranjani, mukhAri, kharaharapriyA, etc. many-a-time reminds me of the pitAmahA in full flow.