nidhi cAla sukhamA? Yes sir!

smala · Post by **smala** » 24 Jul 2010, 01:38

cmlover wrote:Is there an idol of Rama inside that temple?

all deities in the Sri Thyagaraja temple, Thiruvarur, are pictured here.

http://www.srithiyagarajatemple.org/god ... sp#thiyaga

Did I see MahaVishnu to one side and Sri Lakshmi on the other palms together of Sri Thyagaraja?

..."Thiruvarur Deities: Vanmikanathar represents the Moolavar while the shrine dedicated to Thiyagaraja is the better known shrine in the temple.
The Vanmikanathar Legend relates to Shiva appearing within an anthill in response to prayers from the Gods.
Legend has it that the Thiyagaraja (Somaskanda) image at Thiruvarur was created and worshipped by Maha Vishnu. Somaskanda is symbolic of fertility, of royal lineage etc....." from site above.

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 24 Jul 2010, 01:42

'Siva Siva Sivayana rAda' and 'nAda tanumaniSam' > two Tyagaraja kritis that extol the greatness of Siva.
I am sure there are many others.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Jul 2010, 01:44

vasanthakokilam wrote:>But T is a staunch Rama Bhakta! Did he have idols or pictures of other deities in his puja?

Well, I recall vaguely now reading somewhere that T used to visit the Thyagaraja temple every day. ( possible I am imagining this )

What Thyagaraja temple? In which town? The temple in tiruvaiyARu where he lived is called "panjcanadIswarar" or "praNadArthiharan" or "ayyARappan" temple.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Jul 2010, 02:13

Who are the deities in the pancanadiswarar temple?
Was T a smartha brahmin or vasishnava brahmin?
If he was vaishnava he certainly would not worship at a Siva temple in those days!

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 24 Jul 2010, 02:20

mahakavi wrote:... Finally, assuming the SerabhOji episode is true, the king does not lavish gifts in vain to the recipients. There is expectation that the recipient composer would favor him (the king) with one or two songs about his glory. His courtiers would have definitely insisted on that. If T went to the kings's court and sang only on rAmA, he could not refuse if there was pressure to sing about the king. He probably anticipated that situation and agonized over that, I guess.

Respectfully I disagree. There are cases of other kings who did not expect court musicians to sing their praise. Even setting aside the case of Swati Tirunal as exceptional, there was the case of the King of Mysore. There might however be a proxy requirement, such as singing in praise of the ruling deity of the royal house such as chAmuNDEswari (in the case of Mysore), which as far as I can tell is a world apart from singing in praise of a particular living individual (and there is an exception even to that -- sankarAchAryam was composed in praise of the reigning pontiff of the kAnchi maTh). Furthermore there were probably any number of zamindars and local chiefs around tiruvaiyyAru who were quite happy to have the bard grace their homes and just do worship rather than sing praise.

I think Tyagaraja, being a practicer of unchavriti, was of the mind-set that anything, just anything, that is done merely to please a human, even if it is for livelihood, is less preferable to living by one's own means (which could mean you are independently wealthy or you have enough benefactors who do not ask anything of you). Going, even once, to any court would undercut his unchavriti-based existence, which is extolled in scripture as the highest form of existence for a grhastha (householder).

-Then Paanan

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Jul 2010, 02:37

Then Paanan:
You missed my message. I will concede that some kings (very few though) may be above the fray for self-aggrandizement and stoking of that by a famous musician. But even in those circumstances, the cronies of the king would want to encourage the musician to sing the praise of the king, not only to ingratiate themselves to the king but perhaps to really be passionate about their efforts to glorify the king and reward the musician. T perhaps was an exception but so many musicians in those days not only succumbed to such temptation of rewards but were more than willing to sing the praise of kings, demi-kings, and sub-demi-kings.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 24 Jul 2010, 03:51

mahakavi wrote:Ksrimech, pl note: rAma worshipped Siva at rAmEswaram after killing rAvaNa. .

None of the 18 puranas and Srimad Ramayanam talk about this episode. This episode finds place in AdyatmarAmAyaNam and Ramacharitamanas. Except for these two texts, which vaiSNavas don't accept, there is no backing for this. True there are umpteen number of episodes in the tAmasa and rAjasa purANas which talk about chaturmukhabrahmA and paramasivAn's superiority. There is an episode of Sri Krishna making a trip to Kailasa to get santAnaprApti in Srimad Bhagavatham Canto 11. Even that chapter ends with SivaperumAn extolling the dvAdaSanAma of SrImannArAyaNan. Again, this is going into Saiva-vaiSNava arguement which I don't want to do here. Also, I'm not trying to concoct anything here but you are welcome to call me a bigot.

The discussion was only from tyAgarAjasvAmi's kRtis point of view. Has tyAgarAjasvAmi extolled rAmESvara as one praised by SrIrAman? For that we have to come to muttusvAmi dIkSitar (rAmanAtham bhajEham rAmachandra pUjitham). I think CML got what I wrote. My intention is not to start a fight here. I apologize if this has hurt anyone.

arasi, thank you for putting in the words about Smt Ambujam Krishna's bharaNyAsam and her compositions after it. The same can very well be seen with annamAchAryA. There are 100s (may be 1000s) of kritis which were composed as advaitaparam before his samASrayaNa-bharaNyAsam under AdivaN SaTakOpa yaTindra mahAdESikan (the first pontiff of ahObila maTH). After that he composed only on viSiSTAdvaitam and SrImannArAyaNan (mainly as SrIvEnkaTESwaran). There are not advaitapara kRtis know of his son and grandson.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 24 Jul 2010, 03:56

I do not recall seeing one the last time I visited the temple which was 4 years back.

Now one more thing comes to my mind. There is a special dhyana mandapam in that temple and may be someone there told me that thyagaraja used to come to the temple daily and also sit in dhyanam at that mandampam.

>Was T a smartha brahmin or vasishnava brahmin?

I think he was a smartha brahmin ( mulukanadu subtype : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulukanadu )

mk, sorry about messing up the name of the temple. I should have just called it the siva temple in Thiruvayyaru.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Jul 2010, 04:10

ksrimech wrote: None of the 18 puranas and Srimad Ramayanam talk about this episode. This episode finds place in AdyatmarAmAyaNam and Ramacharitamanas. Except for these two texts, which vaiSNavas don't accept, there is no backing for this. True there are umpteen number of episodes in the tAmasa and rAjasa purANas which talk about chaturmukhabrahmA and paramasivAn's superiority.

Whoa! We are into some sensitive areas here, aren't we? The reason we got here is because the supremacy of rAma was mentioned. Reminds me of Kalki's "ponniyin selvan" novel where the inflammatory debates between AzhwArkkadiyan and the saivite priests are mentioned. Anyway let us not revisit such sensitive areas. However, let me register my disbelief in all the purANas (whether saivite or vaishnavite) which have lots of cock-and-bull stories. Let us not tread there.

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 24 Jul 2010, 04:15

Yes, mahakavi. Supremacy of Rama was mentioned. That was for discussion from tyAgarAjasvAmi's point of view, from the kRtis we know of. Not from my view point.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Jul 2010, 05:42

Yes! Our focus is T; everything else incidental !
I accept he is some sort of smartha and not a pure vaishnavite or else he would not have composed on vinayaka and Siva or Gowri! He probably wore gObi naamam rather than the regular vaishnavaite style but never any vibhUti. Perhaps some of these songs were composed at the request of the devotees of these deities. Even when he invokes Ganapati at the outset he mentions Him as one ' with the holy feet of Hari installed in his heart (Sri Ganapatini...)..

So there is no problem T visiting Siva temple daily for meditation!

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Jul 2010, 05:56

With a name like Thyagaraja why would anyone think he was a vaishnavite? Veera Vaishnavites don't have names even remotely resembling saivite ones. Ganapati is called ViSwaksEna in vaishnavite parlance. He was named after the presiding deity in tiruvArUr, where he was born.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 24 Jul 2010, 06:54

.
Smartas believe that there is only one God, and you can call Him by any name you like -- Ganesha, Siva, Sakthi, Surya, Skanda, Vishnu ... ... They are comfortable visiting any temple, offering prayers, and making donations.

Vaishnavaites believe that there is only God, i.e. Vishnu.

As a Smarta Brahmin, Tyagaraja believed in worshiping all deities, viz. Ganesha, Siva, Sakthi, Surya, Skanda and Vishnu, though he selected Rama Avatar as his 'ishta devata'.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Jul 2010, 07:02

Quite true!

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 24 Jul 2010, 08:50

There are VaishnavAs and sriVaishnavas that I know of. The former may also worship saivite deities, although they believe in the supremacy of Hari. The latter, srivaishnavas believe ONLY in Hari and will not touch saivite deities with a ten feet pole ! I also know of recent ( 1940's)converts, munkudumi sozhiars of Tiruchi district, who officially even changed their names upon conversion, from Subramanian to Srinivasan etc.

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 24 Jul 2010, 09:21

It is time for a joke, really. A veera vaishNavar was going to Tiruchi from Srirangam by foot. On the way the path goes through tiruvaAnaikkoyil which is a saivite kshetram. This veera vaishnavar could not stand to cross through the sannidi of Siva. So he took a leftward detour (to avoid the sannidi) and went around the Siva temple. At that time when he was passing around the gopuram a block of mortar fell on his head from above. As you know he had a fully shaved head with a little tuft. The mortar block was the size of his head and the velocity with which it fell on his head created a big gush and he was bleeding profusely. He was in pain. He looked up and saw a crow pecking at the gopuram. He was going to curse the crow. But then he changed his mind and shouted at the crow " E veera vaishnava kAkkAyE tiruvanaikkoyil sivan koyilai nanRAga iDittut taLLu" (Oh veera vaishnava crow, demolish the Sivan temple to your heart's content) and went on his way forgetting his bleeding and pain.
--From one of Kalki's novels, maybe Ponniyin selvan.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 24 Jul 2010, 10:23

ksrimech wrote:None of the 18 puranas and Srimad Ramayanam talk about this episode. This episode finds place in AdyatmarAmAyaNam and Ramacharitamanas. Except for these two texts, which vaiSNavas don't accept, there is no backing for this. True there are umpteen number of episodes in the tAmasa and rAjasa purANas which talk about chaturmukhabrahmA and paramasivAn's superiority. There is an episode of Sri Krishna making a trip to Kailasa to get santAnaprApti in Srimad Bhagavatham Canto 11. Even that chapter ends with SivaperumAn extolling the dvAdaSanAma of SrImannArAyaNan.

The notion of the supremacy of one particular form (rUpa) or name (nAma) of "God" over another is fascinating. I personally find it possible to hold on to the idea of an "ishta-devata" if you will, for guidance, solace, devotion, etc... while at the same time admitting the impermanent nature of nAma (no pun directed at vaishnavism intended!) and rUpa and therefore the universality and oneness of the Deity.

But how does a true "believer" regard the Deity ? Is Mahavishnu a physical entity with blue skin, four arms, the shank and the chakra ? Is Mahavishnu a black stone idol ? Or is Mahavishnu "everything" ? If so, the rUpa characterization loses strength. Again, is Mahavishnu a nAma as I pronouce it with my accent or is it the same in any accent ? If so, the nAma character loses strength.

Finally, if you declare that Mahavishnu is purely a transcendental/spiritual idea, is there any meaning at all in talking about nAma and rUpa ?

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 24 Jul 2010, 11:32

cmlover wrote: <blah blah>..unity of all deities (which is Advaita).

Advaita is about the identity of the Jeevatma (the inner godliness of an individual) and Paramatma (the divine godliness of the universe). Nothing to do with "all deities". Please stop furthering these erroneous theories.

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 24 Jul 2010, 12:42

uday_shankar wrote: Is Mahavishnu a physical entity with blue skin, four arms, the shank and the chakra ? Is Mahavishnu a black stone idol ? Or is Mahavishnu "everything" ?

Nammazhwar had an answer for this question:

uLan enil uLan avan uruvam iv vuruvugaL
uLan alan enil avan aruvam iv varuvugaL
uLan ena ilan ena ivai guNam uDaimaiyil
uLan iru tagaimaiyoDu ozhivu ilan parandE

if you say he is (i.e. he has a form) then he is that form (all such forms are he).
If you say he isnâ€™t (i.e. he is formless) then he is that formlessness (as the formless spirit in all).
He has the twin qualities (of being and non-being)
He pervades all forever, with these twin qualities.
(With acknowledgements to Dr. Jagatrakshakanâ€™s book for the meaning).

But then why is he thought of as that blue skinned form with a conch and discus sleeping in the middle of an ocean? As per nammAzhwAr, thatâ€™s because he created the trinity (this refers to Brahma, Siva and Indra as per the vaishnavite interpretation

), he became the gods and the Rishis, he created a great ocean within himself, and took a sleeping form in that ocean:

taanOr uruvE tani vittAi tannin mUvar mudalAi
vanOr palarum munivarum maRRum maRRum muRRumAi
tAnOr perunIr tannuLLE tORRi adanuL kaN vaLarum
vAnOr perumAn mA mAyan vaikundan emperumAnE

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 24 Jul 2010, 18:47

Pratyaksham Bala wrote:.
Smartas believe that there is only one God, and you can call Him by any name you like .....

In practice this may be true but technically speaking smArtha is someone who follows the smriti i.e. the veda, which in turn means that they perform the prescribed rituals in the vedic and associated texts (shAstras).

-Then Paanan

ksrimech · Post by **ksrimech** » 24 Jul 2010, 19:49

Thank you Sridhar_rang and thenpaanan. There are numerous other pasurams which can be sighted. Again, I reiterate that the discussion was only in terms of tyAgarAjasvAmi kIrtanAs and lets get back to it. Please, let the discussion not get into a Saiva-vaiSNava debate.

Sundara Rajan, there were munkudumi sozhiyars from tiruveLLarai, near SrIrangam, who were SrIvaiSNavas during the days of yAmunAchAryA and rAmAnujAchAryA.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 24 Jul 2010, 20:02

Then Paanan,

Yes, you are right.

Smarthas are of two types â€“ vaidikis and loukikis.

Vaidikis devote their full time in vedic rituals and they depend on loukikis for their livelihood.

Loukikis engage themselves in various trade, service and industry, but still they do the ritual three-time prayers which include select verses from the Vedas. (In many places, it is the practice that the head of the family will do the Panchayanata worship daily, using the five holy stones - collected from the ordained holy places - representing Siva, Vishnu, Surya, Vinayaka and Sakthi.) There is no compulsion for them to visit temples regularly; it is left to the individualâ€™s choice to visit any temple of his liking.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Jul 2010, 20:07

cmlover wrote:Who are the deities in the pancanadiswarar temple?
Was T a smartha brahmin or vasishnava brahmin?
If he was vaishnava he certainly would not worship at a Siva temple in those days!

I think Pratyaksham Balu has already made the point - Sri tyAgarAja was a smArta brahmin - he was called 'tyAgayyar', and in the early music circles, 'iyyervAL' meant Sri tyAgarAja, and 'iyengArvAL' was Sri ARI. Apparently, (I have not seen a reference for this) at one time, all South-Indian smArtAs/Saivaite brAhamins were called 'iyers' - and it is not clear how the name/categorization became restricted to those of tamizh origin alone.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 24 Jul 2010, 20:20

rshankar wrote:Apparently, (I have not seen a reference for this) at one time, all South-Indian smArtAs/Saivaite brAhamins were called 'iyers' - and it is not clear how the name/categorization became restricted to those of tamizh origin alone.

The Tamizh world 'aiyan' denotes 'para-brahmam'. As smArtAs believe in the upanishadic concept 'aham BrahmAsmi', they are called Brahmam (Sanskrit) or Aiyan (Tamizh).

During the successive rule of Tamil land by Telugu and Kannada speaking kings, many Brahmin families from Andhra and Karnataka moved to Tamil land. These domiciled Brahmins were also called by the Tamil term 'Aiyan'. For example, Tyagaraja was called Tyaga Brahmam and also Tyaga Aiyan.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Jul 2010, 20:50

sureshvv wrote:[Advaita is about the identity of the Jeevatma (the inner godliness of an individual) and Paramatma (the divine godliness of the universe). Nothing to do with "all deities". Please stop furthering these erroneous theories.

Amazing profound revelation!
Never knew that fact and thanks for sharing it with us!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 24 Jul 2010, 21:01

MK
Thanks for lightening the mood!
I am sure the Crow attained vaikuntam

Now let us keep the focus on T!

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 24 Jul 2010, 22:46

The crow story is indeed from ponniyin selvan - the person who 'talks' to the crow is none other than the vIra vaishNava character, AzhvArkkaDiyan....

mahakavi · Post by **mahakavi** » 25 Jul 2010, 03:17

Pratyaksham Bala wrote:
During the successive rule of Tamil land by Telugu and Kannada speaking kings, many Brahmin families from Andhra and Karnataka moved to Tamil land. These domiciled Brahmins were also called by the Tamil term 'Aiyan'. For example, Tyagaraja was called Tyaga Brahmam and also Tyaga Aiyan.

PB:
Can you name the Kannada rulers who governed Thamizh-speaking country?
To my knowledge, there was only one PulikEsi from Calukya dynasty (Badami also known as vAtApi) who besieged Kanchipuram, caused untold havoc, and took lots of prisoners with him after the unsuccessful siege. That blot was avenged by the next pallava king Narasimha varman later. Were there any actual kannada rulers in Thamizh country?

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 25 Jul 2010, 22:12

MK,

The last of the Hoysala kings, Veera Ballala III, ruled with Tiruvannamalai as his capital for about 20 years before he was defeated and killed by the army of the Delhi Sultanate (and his body was hung outside the Madurai fort). You can read the details in Srivenugopalan's "tiruvarangan ulA", which records Ballala's immense help towards restoring Shri Ranganatha to his original shrine at Srirangam.

Kalabhra Kings from present day Karnatake ruled the entire Tamil Nadu area for three and a half centuries, sometime between the 2nd and 5th centuries CE. Since no records exist of the Kalabhra period in Tamil literature, (supposedly a "dark era") we do not know what language they spoke - they could have been speaking some form of old Kannada.

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 25 Jul 2010, 23:20

The (Kannada) Hoysalas extended their rule over Tamil land during the time of Vira Narasimha II (1220-1235) and they had Kannanur Kuppam (Samayapuram) as their second capital. His son Vira Someshwara (1235-1254) extended their control over Tamil land by annexing the Pandyan kingdom.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 25 Jul 2010, 23:26

...and what about Tippu's forays!

Pratyaksham Bala · Post by **Pratyaksham Bala** » 26 Jul 2010, 07:17

How to classify Tippu?
As a Kannadiga? Or as a brutal & horrible Muslim fanatic, and atrocious plunderer, who played havoc in Tamil land?

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 22 May 2011, 19:53

A funny cartoon related to Nidhi chala sukhama:

suma · Post by **suma** » 22 May 2011, 21:02

In my opinion, this is the precise reason one should not have music as a primary profession. Carnatic music is divine and carnatic music concert should not be like a 9-5 job where you come in sing a concert, show some mastering in niravel, swaram, ragam and walk away with $2500 per concert.

If carnatic music remains divine as it is supposed to be, you can sense the divinity in the performer. I dont want to take names, but there are some present day musicians that work in banks, insurance etc and also perform. These artists are doing it purely for love of music and are not banking on music for bread and butter.

One should do the needful in their Gruhastha period where they are supposed to earn and make a living, but use the knowledge and technique to uplift themselves spirutually.

A movie song comes into the market, it is hot for 6 months at the max and it disappears. But, do we ever feel tired of St Tyagaraja's pancharatnam or Dikshitar's Kamalambha Nava Avarna krithis?

Nidhi is sukham for a livilihood, but for mental and spiritual peace divine carnatic music is more superior. However, just carnatic music is not going to give sukham as your dependants need to life and need you to earn a living for them.

This is strictly my opinion.

thanaroopi · Post by **thanaroopi** » 22 May 2011, 23:46

suma wrote:In my opinion, this is the precise reason one should not have music as a primary profession. Carnatic music is divine and carnatic music concert should not be like a 9-5 job where you come in sing a concert, show some mastering in niravel, swaram, ragam and walk away with $2500 per concert.

If carnatic music remains divine as it is supposed to be, you can sense the divinity in the performer. I dont want to take names, but there are some present day musicians that work in banks, insurance etc and also perform. These artists are doing it purely for love of music and are not banking on music for bread and butter.

One should do the needful in their Gruhastha period where they are supposed to earn and make a living, but use the knowledge and technique to uplift themselves spirutually.

A movie song comes into the market, it is hot for 6 months at the max and it disappears. But, do we ever feel tired of St Tyagaraja's pancharatnam or Dikshitar's Kamalambha Nava Avarna krithis?

Nidhi is sukham for a livilihood, but for mental and spiritual peace divine carnatic music is more superior. However, just carnatic music is not going to give sukham as your dependants need to life and need you to earn a living for them.

This is strictly my opinion.

I am usually more of a 'reader' and less of a 'poster' around here, but I want to give my own opinion about this.

Working in banks and other businesses shows a love for music, sure. But it shows that something else is more important. There is nothing wrong with that. But what better way to show your love for music than to make it your profession and work on it 24/7?

If everyone in the world decides to keep music as a 'secondary' profession, the standard of music that is currently around will very quickly cease to exist. Working 9-5 is not conducive to a musician being able to practice and perform well. It may work in the short run for some musicians, but it will definitely have its own adverse affects and will not work for a long time. Imagine if people had convinced our stalwarts of music to instead take up a job and only do concerts on weekends and holidays! What would we listen to today? It is their years of performing and practice that has today given us the music that we love.This is why I take it personally when I hear people pushing young talents away from taking music seriously, telling them that they will never make any money out of it.You can't complain about the falling standard of music while simultaneously telling the next generation that music can never be taken seriously. It just won't work. It's like baking your cake and eating it too. I do sincerely believe that with hard work, talent, networking, and faith in our people up above

, anyone can succeed at whatever they feel is their calling.

Definitely, in this day and age, it is wholly impossible to singing just for "singing" and to not have money be in the picture. Keeping in mind those constraints, there are obviously very few (if any) who can emulate Thyagaraja's views expressed in Nidhi Chala Sukhama. But is that any reason to completely erase such a beautiful krithi from the concert platform and take away future generations' opportunities to listen to those kinds of ideas? I don't think so, though it is probably up to each person's individual opinion.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 22 May 2011, 23:51

Well, as I always harp about this, bring in the other lines of that song, and see if we need to give up those things too. Thyagaraja is silent in this song on the topic of musicians taking it as a profession (which means earning their livelihood through it). This song is not about that, though it is commonly misconstrued that way.

That is a funny cartoon.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 23 May 2011, 00:46

Other cartoons (including the above) on music can be seen here:

http://www.karnatik.com/kartoons.shtml

veeyens3 · Post by **veeyens3** » 23 May 2011, 01:42

We have two alternatives. One to take music as the main component of the situation and the sahityam as the skeleton on which to develop the music, then I think there is no harm in singing these sort of compositions, On the other hand the sahityam assumes the main role, in view of the esoteric concepts contained in many of the earlier compositions, all of us have to renounce the normal life and take sanyasa

anonymityatlast · Post by **anonymityatlast** » 23 May 2011, 09:08

Nice cartoon. Only problem is, I doubt if there are any two-rupee tickets these days.

Which is basically the problem.

If someone sings entirely for the love of music -- and works in a bank for the salary -- isn't that wrong either? Shouldn't they do their duties for the bank with full devotion too? Truth of the matter is, there should be SOMETHING we do for money (this applies especially for men) and not for the love of it. And we aren't doing that for the love of it, so it's not niShkAma karma.

Here's another problem. CM is demanding enough in time and hard work (to be a full-time profession) (isn't it?), and yet doesn't always pay well enough for that (it seems).

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 23 May 2011, 09:42

suma wrote:A movie song comes into the market, it is hot for 6 months at the max and it disappears. But, do we ever feel tired of St Tyagaraja's pancharatnam or Dikshitar's Kamalambha Nava Avarna krithis?

I can find any number of fans of Beatles, Pink Floyd, etc... (in fact numerically far superior to CM fans) who do not feel "tired" of their songs. Likewise, even fans of old Tamil film songs who never get "tired" of them must exceed CM fans. Therefore, this line of reasoning is not valid.

Western Classical Music is at least as deep and complex as CM in a different way. Yet, nobody make the claim that it is "divinely" inspired. So the "divine" inspiration in CM certainly cannot be its great complexity in rAga or tAla or any other formalism. So what exactly is "divinely" inspired ? Perhaps the lyrics ? Then, there are arguably equally divinely inspired lyrics devoted to purely spiritual matters without any musical formalism. For example, I find the recitation of the Taittiriya Upanisad a greater spritual experience than listening to Carnatic music which usually appeals to my senses and intellect. It can't be compared with the deep and otherworldly peace/Ananda/jnana that comes with the mere listening of the Chandas...the ancient Hindus had figured out something very profound and amazing indeed! That's just my opinion

.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 May 2011, 19:42

Lakshman wrote:Other cartoons (including the above) on music can be seen here:

http://www.karnatik.com/kartoons.shtml

Hilarious

Loved this one especially

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 May 2011, 19:46

And this one!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 May 2011, 20:20

I liked the thani one too. I always thought the mridangist's shishya sends an SMS to the violinist who then picks up the bow which is the signal to the vocalist

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 23 May 2011, 21:03

Arun,
Very funny twosome

VK,
SMS? I thought it was more like ESP

Thanks to Raghavan Jayakumar! Humor aside, I see such a nice blend of the old and the new in his pictures. Isn't that how we like our music too?
I mean, after fifty years or more--when CM enthusiasts look at these cartoons (as we do of Mali today), they will still see the flavor of CM contained in them, along with the context which had changed (examples: women accompanists, technology). A la degree coffee flavor, perhaps?