English SSP

[davalangi]

For the benefit of the larger audience, I thought I would take the liberty to post this announcement here also.

http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13913

Interestingly enough, earlier this year, Dr.PPN & Vidya were approached by the Music Academy asking for their permission to use their existing web version "as a base" to publish the SSP in English under the Academy banner. Owing to a lot of reasons, Vidya and Dr.PPN declined permission. At that point, considering that almost 95% of the work was already completed, they were thinking of including the Sangita Pracina Paddhati and Lakshana Sangraha also (which was not available in the web version) and publishing the work on their own. Since SRJ had done some prior work in this regard (his translations have been published in the Academy journal in 1990), they decided to seek his help and guidance to translate the musicology sections.

Vidya and Dr.PPN's work (the web version) has received mention in today's The Hindu.

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2010/08/27/stor ... 020200.htm

[cmlover]

It beats logic to note that MA is bent on reinventing the wheel while a fine authentic english translation has been released by Vidya and Dr PPN after doing extensive research. It would make sense if MA use their resources to add a good commentary on their excellent work or add additional information through historical research!

[ragam-talam]

It's interesting to note the Hindu article refers to Dr PPN as just PP Narayanswami, while it is Dr. Pappu Venugopala Rao!
And it seems MA has already taken over the work??

[uday_shankar]

It's interesting to note the Hindu article refers to Dr PPN as just PP Narayanswami, while it is Dr. Pappu Venugopala Rao!

Good catch r-t. Shows the integrity and caliber of whoever authored that blurb.

[mankuthimma]

RT
I am surprised that people give so much value to reports in THE HINDU . While the world wears Page 3 on their sleeves .
This kind of work is a Western Tradition - atleast in the recent past-Giving up lifetimes to studying and archiving for the sake of posterity.On subjects ranging from Mating habits of scorpions to Whatever .....

We Indians are useless in this respect. And when some good soul has the willpower to go through the process , the hawks lose no time in swarming around.

I spent Fifteen years building an archive that I donated to a famous Sabha in Mumbai . I asked for a plaque in the name of my father , in return , even if in a corner -
Only because his contribution spanned an additional two decades of effort.
And when the time arrived for me to quarrel with the beneficiaries over not respecting my sentiments , I had to stare at a name as big as Paramacharya , whose name adorns the walls there.
I have said my prayers silently , for having failed , which my Late Dad ( as well as the Paramacharya ) hopefully understands .

But I have my technology like internet to continue the good work.

Time alone will separate the pretenders from the original workers.So relax

The effort that goes into efforts like this one with SSP , requires a kind of willpower and attention sustenance that is very similar to the ones displayed by the practitioners of Music. Vilayath Khan once said that the most difficult part of his training was when his Dad used to make him sit on the verandah , overlooking a busy street and practise. The Dad would notice the slightest of distractions -if and when they occurred -, while sitting inside the house.

My first introductory speech for our concert series ten years ago focussed on th elimination of middlemen - between the artist and the follower.These examples just show how middlemen work.It is a question of time before that part will get obsolete, too.

[ragam-talam]

RT
I am surprised that people give so much value to reports in THE HINDU .

Well, the Hindu report states the following:
>>An editorial board has been constituted with veteran and young musicians and musicologists to undertake the project of translating ‘SSP' into English in four volumes (each will consist of 18 melas) under the editorship of Dr. Pappu Venugopala Rao. The first volume will be released before the December Season and the remaining three volumes will be published by 2011-end.<<
This seems to contradict the report we had here (under CM books) which said that the SSP translation is being published by Dr PPN and Vidya.

My first introductory speech for our concert series ten years ago focussed on th elimination of middlemen - between the artist and the follower.These examples just show how middlemen work.It is a question of time before that part will get obsolete, too.

I am not so hopeful. Hence the concern I expressed under 'Is the gap widening in CM world?' topic.

[uday_shankar]

taken over the work

I hope ragam-talam is wrong about this. It would be nice to have a completely independent translation from the Music Academy so we can compare texts between the PPN-Vidya version and whatever the MA may come out with. It is always good to have multiple translations for everything from the Gita to the SSP. Best wishes to the MA committee in this regard.

However, If indeed the MA has "built upon" the "web version", what should not go unacknowledged, if not in print at least in spirit, is the stupendous scholarship and passion of Dr.PPN and Vidya Jayaraman. Inadvertently, even a nut hits a squirrel sometimes and likewise the Hindu blurb refers to Dr.PPN and his "band of scholars" ! Indeed, Vidya is a one-woman "band of scholars"!

Shy and self-effacing perhaps to a fault, this effort bears the stamp of her immense versatility. She has combined an intense love for the musical tradition of MD with superb scholarship in multiple areas, intelligence, investigative skills, linguistic skills, time management skills (she has a full time corporate job and a family including a lovely 5 year old to take care of)...the intensity of Vidya's meticulousness is hard to match for anybody. This alone is sufficient reason for me to trust her version of anything she undertakes, say for example an encyclopedia article on the theory of relativity (not kidding at all), which is not her field.

PPN and Vidya inhabit the new world of the internet, open-source, GNU and the honor system that comes along with it. It is world where sources are scrupulously acknowledged according to their level of contribution, not for reasons of legal nature or public stature but for honor. This is the common thread that runs through all modern collaborative efforts undertaken by highly accomplished people of very high class and caliber. This kind of honor system is perhaps something entirely new for an older world still governed by giant egos, institutional muscle, etc...

In the final analysis, the only gratification of any work is in the doing of it followed by the knowledge that people are using it and nothing and nobody can take either away from
Dr. PPN and Vidya. God bless !

[venkatpv]

However, If indeed the MA has "built upon" the "web version", what should not go unacknowledged, if not in print at least in spirit, is the stupendous scholarship and passion of Dr.PPN and Vidya Jayaraman.

the "Terms of Use" clearly prohibits using the web version "as a source to recreate other derived documents".
http://ibiblio.org/guruguha/terms.htm

so the question of them using the web version doesn't arise (unless they get permission from the authors).

[davalangi]

Just wanted to quickly clarify something and avoid misinterpretations of my original post! All I stated there was Vidya and Dr.PPN were approached by MA. Vidya and Dr.PPN were later informed by Music Academy that they will do a new version from scratch.

[cmlover]

Thimma
The news that your request was ignored by the sabha in Mumbai is shocking to me. Not having visited Mumbai in recent times I took for granted that you have been fully acknowledged by them for your pioneering works over decades and for freely sharing them to one and all like the proverbial KarNa. I can also appreciate your filial gratitude which was quite appropriate. Were is not for U vE sA Tamil literture would have been in shambles but the meagre recognition of him by the present day self-styled Tamil Protagoiists speaks volumes for their selfish motives.

Being in the Academia for several years I am quite aware of the exploitation of graduate students by Senior Professors which continues to this day besides myself being a victim in my younger days! There are too many skeletons and horror stories to recount.

At least some of us Internationals know of your selfless contributions which should be of some satisfaction but the grace with which you bear these exploitations is indeed commendable in a true Gita Spirit
karmaNyEva adhikArastE mA phalEShu kadAcanaH or better in Tamil
en kaDan paNi cheythu kiDappathuvE (service is my motto)

[cmlover]

I hope ragam-talam is wrong about this. It would be nice to have a completely independent translation from the Music Academy so we can compare texts between the PPN-Vidya version and whatever the MA may come out with. It is always good to have multiple translations for everything from the Gita to the SSP. Best wishes to the MA committee in this regard.

I disagree with you Uday. If that was the intention they need not have approached in the first place Vidya to seek permission to use their web edition to use as the base. We need not delve into the reasons why the permission was refused. In all fairness and in the interest of CM they should have requested Dr PPN and Vidya to lead a team of experts to produce an expanded version with commentaries (and demos from expert musicians) for a brand-new hard copy version of SSP. MA has the resources to assemble such a team and even we Rasikas would willingly contribute financially for such a glorious project in the interest of CM. What is happening is nothing short of internal politics for which MA is no stranger!

[rajeshnat]

One usually announces the book when it is just published . Here THE HINDU is announcing that they will publish by end of this year their first volume. Is this done to counter Dr PPN and Vidya's english edition announcement ,kind of using a huge base of readership that Hindu commands for academy and pappu venugopal rao's advantage.

[ragam-talam]

I hope someone raises this matter in an appropriate forum, e.g. Sruti magazine.
I sincerely hope the powers-that-be haven't cornered that forum too!

As Uday so eloquently put it, it's a true labour of love by Dr PPN and Vidya, along with others who have helped them. One gets the feeling the likes of MA are trying to hijack the whole thing. What a shame.

[Ashwin]

<deleted> For those who read this post before my afterthought, I was mainly referring to the various announcements/posts that I had read on the internet, facebook, etc. which left a sour taste in my mouth. I've decided instead to bite my tongue!

Ashwin

[nnramya]

<deleted>

[rshankar]

In these days of restricted funds, I wonder why the MMA has to spend their funds to re-do what has been already done so well. Usually when people try to re-do something it is either because of a) there is new information available; b) fix some errors in the previous version; or c) there are plans to add to the initial effort. Of these, a) seems unlikely (given that there is nothing 'new' that can be appended to the SSP), and c) is also unlikely given that the article in Hindu just states that they will be translating the SSP alone. Which leaves me wondering if the (so-called) scholars and experts at the MMA are invoking b) without even reading Dr. PPN's and Viday's efforts fully!! Well, using this rationale, all I can conclude is that the powers that be are playing petty games again. I wish they'd grow up, and be more fiscally responsible with their monies, and give credit where it is due, and learn to live collaboratively and congenially.
Anyway, kudos to Dr. PPN, Vidya and their families - this labor of their love will be appreciated as the first (and best) in class.

[mahakavi]

Just wanted to quickly clarify something and avoid misinterpretations of my original post! All I stated there was Vidya and Dr.PPN were approached by MA. Vidya and Dr.PPN were later informed by Music Academy that they will do a new version from scratch.

davalangi:
You also posted in another thead that Dr. PPN/Vidya declined their (MA's) offer, whatever that was. So it was a fair parting of ways. I don't understand as to why that should be considered offensive? As for the announcement in The Hindu, MA is closely associated with the newspaper and they perhaps took a free advertisement . Anything wrong with that? Call it competition or whatever, I don't see any evil motive there. Of course, I don't know the inner workings. Besides, what is wrong with multiple publications and interpretations of SSP in English? How many authors have published books on Shakespear's plays---many of them on a single play like Macbeth?

[bilahari]

This cheap stunt by the MA is disgusting. And I bet that their publication will probably largely plagiarise PPN-Vidya's online version.

In any event, all of us on this forum know Vidya's dedication and scholarship, and we should spare no effort in publicising their publication. And that should start with all of us purchasing a copy.

[vasanthakokilam]

MK, the full picture as we know it is, MA asked Dr.PPN/Vidya for using their web version in English for their efforts which was refused. In the mean time, Dr. PPN/Vidya are publishing the English version which was announced recently. And now we see the MA announcement. I do not think Davalangi is characterizing any of this as offensive. The timing of the MA announcement is the interesting part for the rest of us and we are speculating on the motives.

[ragam-talam]

Also, some of the comments on Facebook seem to be in poor taste.

Can someone please provide a link to the facebook location where these comments have been posted?

[cmlover]

In any event, all of us on this forum know Vidya's dedication and scholarship, and we should spare no effort in publicising their publication. And that should start with all of us purchasing a copy.

I second your views. The book I believe will be distributed by the Karnatic Book Store in India. Forumites should show their solid support to Vidya and Dr PPN...

[mahakavi]

MK, the full picture as we know it is, MA asked Dr.PPN/Vidya for using their web version in English for their efforts which was refused. In the mean time, Dr. PPN/Vidya are publishing the English version which was announced recently. And now we see the MA announcement. I do not think Davalangi is characterizing any of this as offensive. The timing of the MA announcement is the interesting part for the rest of us and we are speculating on the motives.

NO, I am NOT saying davalangi is characterizing it as offensive at all. Davalangi has just stated the plain facts without prejudice in both places. I should have separated that sentence from the rest of my post. I was using that quote to indicate the situation and countering the suggestion of ulterior motives (of MA) by some posters here. As I mentioned in my post further , it is not morally offensive to produce a competing publication. In business when an offer to acquire does not go through it is common to go for an alternate approach which includes producing it in-house. As for timing, why do we have to question that? When MA recognized they could not bring in PPN/Vidya into their fold they decided to go ahead and announce their intention. Most businesses do that in order to let their intention be known publicly (like Micorsoft Bing). Actually the PPN/Vidya venture is known only in the internet community and a few selected music circles. MA decided to go for the big picture. They have a corporate ally--why not?