yadukulakambhoji

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 19 Jul 2005, 23:58

I know this is one of the ragas whose structure cannot be captured by aro/avaro but ...

I have seen in various sources (online raga list, sangeetham, carnatica) that "listed" aro does not include gandharam. I have not seen any other variation in this regard in any of the sources i have seen so far.

But gmp seems to be allowed. Sangeetham.com's appreciation mentions this in more than one instance, i have also heard renditions using this. I see that srm is quite common, and gmp is not uncommon, but I am guessing srgm is a no-no. Is this correct? Is that why the listed aro skips gandharam?

I thought that if a swara does not appear in arohana, then from that swara one can only descend down. So gmp would have been disallowed if aro is taken as s r m and hence a "s r m" arohana is quite misleading. I do realize that we are talking about a rakthi raga and so one shouldnt be reading too much into aro/avaro, but...

Can someone shed some light? Thanks.

Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jul 2005, 00:18

You are absolutely right that YK cannot be captured in a scale.
SRM is alowed as well as GMP.
The usage is usually like this
SRM~~~MGMP___ DPDS-ND-NS-ND-NS-ND-
In fact this is the whole essence of the rAga. Of course the usage upto P can and occur separately from PtoS in the above phrase. M~ indicates a mild kampita gamaka. Note that the M here is sharp(tIvra) and higher than the madhyama of kAmbOdhi. You also get the kAmbOdhi madhyama in the rAga(Where it swings from G and goes upto P when ascending to P). Also a plain M occurs.Also you will have
SRG___and it does on many occasions climb up to M as well

SRG___GMPMGMG-- or SRG___G-MP_MG_MP_MG___

G__ indicates a kamapanavihIna gAndhAra- G rendered steadily without any oscillation. I have tried to capture in writing as best as I can. You can notice these in renditions. Unless you want me to sing and demonstrate;)

You also have N3 occuring as in kAmbOdhi in the prayOga SN3PDS-. Also SSPDS is a raktiprayOga in the rAga more so in themandrastAyi.
Im sure you know that this rAga shines best in viLambakAla only(there are only very few kRtis in madhyamakAla icluding one of tyAgarAja)

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jul 2005, 02:14

Arun
I am sure you have read Dr Srivatsa's discussion in:

http://www.carnatica.net/newsletter/yka ... letter.htm

I have a couple of books which actually give the arohana as
srmgmpds
That will make it a vakra raagam but will legalize 'sr- gmp' though it may not be used, though SSP will proscribe it. There is also controversy as to whether it is a bhaashanga raga centering on the nishaada!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jul 2005, 02:16

Thanks Dr. Shrikkanth.

An idle question: Would an arohana like SRMGMP better reflect the usage here or would that only confuse the issue more? I mean perhaps by by placing (incorrect) restrictions on traversal from M to P . I dont know how would one interpret an arohana like MGMP. In fact, how does one interpret vakra aro/avaro?

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jul 2005, 02:19

cmlover,

Somehow I missed your posts regarding srmgmp! Sorry. But I dont know if your post was posted late but now appears immediately after mine? Puzzling...

I still need some validation/clarification regarding vakra arohana/avarohana. Does srm gmp only mean srm and gmp are allowed but not srgm (or rgm) i.e. without introducing anything between m-p because it appears as mpgmp?

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jul 2005, 02:20

sorry. I think our posts must have crossed. In the preview page I got confused about the ordering.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jul 2005, 02:40

arun
unless 'gmp' is sanctioned as a special prayOgam (if there is a reference!) the recognition as a vakra raga will permit all possible phrases! I hope prof SRJ may be able to throw some light on the conventions. Do we know where the sanction for 'gmp' comes from?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jul 2005, 02:55

cmlover,

i think gmp is neither a special exception kind of thing nor a rare prayoga (as opposed to sn*p where n* is kakali, like in kAmbhOji and as mentioned by dr.shrikkanth).

BTW, subbarama dikshitar himself lists prayogas including gmp according to sangeetham.com raga appreciation section:

Some of the prayOgas given by Subbarama Dikshitar are:
SRM,M,- SRPMM,-GMPMM,- SRGSRPMGG,-MPMGR,-
RMGR,-GRGS-P.D.S-PDS'DPMGRGR,-SN3S-SPDS

I am not sure if srmgmp would sanction rgm since srm explicitly occurs. I mean srm is allowed even if you have straight srgm - i would take an explicit mention of srm to mean r-m without g in between. But may be i am wrong or it is ambigous at best. I am also interested as to whether srmgmp would affect m-p as in allow room for an ambiguos interpration that it provide must be vakra because mgmp.

I admit that I have not thought about these much particularly in the context of rakthi ragas and general consider aro/avaro as very gross approximations (i.e. not worth breaking ones head about). But it is still interesting to do so!

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jul 2005, 03:11

While not contradicting you, let me summarize what prof SRJ states in 'Ragalakshna' (part 1). He mentions that the ancient name was yerukulakamboji which was derived from kamboji through the sanchaara ' srm- srmgmpds' (*which perhaps forms the basis for the vakra definition*). he also states that it is difficult to determine the aro-avaro as well as janaka raaga for this raga, nor is it necessary. He also refers to the 'mrudu' madhyamam referred to in the CRC newsletter.(This clearly supports your claim that the raga cannot be defined by its aro-avaro)

he mentions regional variations in thsi raga since it is very ancient. In Tamil it was called ' paN chevvazhi'. he suggests that this raga should be sung following tradition (*hence no innovations*) Accordingly it is unsuitable for kalapana swarams.

Note my comments are inside asterisks (*).

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Jul 2005, 03:27

arunk
SRMGMP may allow SRMP but would not permit a straight SRGM at all. There are some ground rules(although there are exceptions

)
A simple qualifier of "vakra rAga" cannot and does not permit all possible phrases. As you have said GMP is no rare occurrence and is seen in all compositions aplenty. SRM occurs commonly as well.
In summation this rAga cannot be satisfactorily defined by a scale.
SN3PDS prayOga is seen in a number of compositions- old and new. IMO there is no need to stir up a controversy here. It is a rare prayOga and is best left that way. For that matter it is rare in kAmbOdhi as well. Singing it repeatedly will mar the kAmbOdhi and leaving out entirely will not spoil it.

Anyway, some opine that Ther 2nd ShaDja in SSPDS slipped marginally down to level of N3 when singing/playing(more likely to be singing) giving rise to SN3PDS.
yerukula, is the name of a tribe(boatsmen) in Andhra. They are supposed to sing it when rowing the boats.(ODanu jaripE of tyAgarja should have been in YK and not sAranga :cheesy: )
Hence the name which later got polished to yadukula.

PDSP_ and SRGS_ are also nice prayOgas. These may be well known but am mentioning it as this discussion has come up.

On a final note. R, may not be a dominant note but I think it has a particlar quality thatadds beauty to the rAga. It is rendered with amild kampana.This is seen in the descent MGR~~~ not in ascent.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jul 2005, 21:46

> SRMGMP may allow SRMP but would not permit a straight
> SRGM at all.
Thats ok for YK right? But I think it will not allow srg which is obviously part of YK. So how about SRGRMGMP... (or SRGSRMGMP) (:-). Would this mean SRG ok, SRM ok, GMP ok, but RGM not ok which is what we want? Or would it allow too much (or not allow enough)

I dont know why I am bothering with this

But the interest now comes from a a computer science background (language grammar)

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jul 2005, 22:25

Arun
The answer is:
"I said so"

Don't read too much into these injunctions which are made up by some (?)ancients!
Music is for enjoyment! And rules are made to be broken (for enjoyment

). The Music rules are not bullet-proof like OOPS!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Jul 2005, 23:55

cmlover,

Agreed of course! I am not looking to define aro/avaro as the deinitive thing here - as i admitted the futility of such at the beginning itself. My other motive is to better understand aro/avaro with vakra prayogas built into them (with the same futility applicable there as well!).

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 21 Jul 2005, 01:39

agreed!

inconsequential · Post by **inconsequential** » 04 Feb 2006, 09:27

just saw the thread - yadukulakambohi.
couldn't help thinking of srI mdr. wouldn't it be incomplete, w/o him?

http://s37.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2I90 ... WE8ICOA9X6

regards

nnramya · Post by **nnramya** » 15 Feb 2006, 19:34

Can someone please re-post the MDR piece? Missed it!

Thank you

Ramya.

sriram · Post by **sriram** » 30 Sep 2006, 05:50

Can some one post the lyrics and meaning of Sri Parthasarathy.
Thanks
Sriram

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 30 Sep 2006, 06:03

pArthasAratini. rAgA: yadukulakAmbhOji. Adi tALA. Composer: Subbarama Dikshitar

P: pArthasArathini sEvimpani shrI pArthasArathini sEvimpaniya pArthasArathIyELA
A: pArthivAvaLi vidAraNa nipuNu krpArthivara prasAda karaNa caraNu shrI
C: karigAva dikkari moraliDagama karidrunci brOcina karivElpugadA narudAra
morala narudAra vinidanarutAlmi brOcu mannAru sAmigadA shraNamanna
kAkAshara dhIru gAci sharadhi garva hara dAsharathi gadA parama bhaktulakiha
parama himalosagi paramada maNacina paramAtmuDu gadA
(madhyamakAl sAhitya)
gurukuca bhArayagu rukmiNi manasu guruterugu maruni guruvugadA shiva
guru guha budha kavi gurunuta shubhbhA guru phalada mUla guruvugadA shrI
(sholkaTTu svaram)
tA tayya taka takajham taka jhaNu taka jham tAri tadhimita kiTa tat8haNata tadhInu
tajhamta takataka digi tadhrimi takiNa takiTa jhamtakumta tadhInnam tadingiNatOm

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 30 Sep 2006, 07:13

My favorite in yadukula kAmbhOji beides yArenRu rAgavanai (aruNAchalak kavi) is MD's thyAgarAjam bhajarE--a gem in bringing out the beauty of the rAgA...

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 12 Jan 2007, 11:41

Hello All!!! Please could someone post a male rendition of kaamaakshi swarajathi of syama saastri in yadukula kambodhi??? I am unable to get one of my own?? Thanks

srinidhi · Post by **srinidhi** » 12 Jan 2007, 16:03

thathwamasi,

A commercially available album entitled "Swarajati" has TMK singing all the 3 swarajatis of SS.

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 12 Jan 2007, 16:56

arasi wrote:My favorite in yadukula kAmbhOji beides yArenRu rAgavanai (aruNAchalak kavi) is MD's thyAgarAjam bhajarE--a gem in bringing out the beauty of the rAgA...

Beautiful choice. Merely reading the words of this krithi itself is such a divine pleasure...

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 13 Jan 2007, 00:51

<Srinidhi> Thanks so much..I shall look out for it..However, i am looking for a rendition for old artists...a KVN or a Semmangudi or TMT types. Thanks

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 19 Apr 2008, 14:39

Here's a rendition of the swarajati by MS:
http://sangeethamshare.org/tvg/UPLOADS- ... 0.9-MB.mp3

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 19 Apr 2008, 15:53

thathwamasi wrote:Hello All!!! Please could someone post a male rendition of kaamaakshi swarajathi of syama saastri in yadukula kambodhi??? I am unable to get one of my own?? Thanks

There's a vocal rendition by DB Ashwin here. A recording glitch has resulted in some skipping/truncation.

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 19 Apr 2008, 16:50

I think I heard one by Sri SSI and Smt MSS-probably 'www.udhbhava.com'-You may try.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 30 Apr 2008, 22:43

This is nothing to do with Yadukula kambhoji directly, but some rant on one of my favourite compositions in this raaga:

http://neelanjana.wordpress.com/2008/04/29/

-Ramakriya

ignoramus · Post by **ignoramus** » 22 Nov 2009, 18:42

resurrecting an old thread, i thought this clip might be interesting. http://rapidshare.de/files/48720719/01- ... e.mp3.html
apologies if the thread is wrongly chosen. Moderators may pl move it to the correct one.

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 03 May 2010, 00:08

drshrikaanth wrote:
SN3PDS prayOga is seen in a number of compositions- old and new. IMO there is no need to stir up a controversy here. It is a rare prayOga and is best left that way. For that matter it is rare in kAmbOdhi as well. Singing it repeatedly will mar the kAmbOdhi and leaving out entirely will not spoil it.

Further to this point, I heard in a lec-dem (forgot the presenter's name) that while Sn3pdS is available in sparing amount for both K and YK, it is more prevalent in practice of YK to use only the lower scale version ie in manthra sthayi whereas both sthayi versions are available for K.

Just a microscopic point, that's all. I was struck by it because it is a rare case where the sthayi actually matters in CM.

-Then Paanan

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 02 Sep 2010, 20:48

thenpaanan wrote:Further to this point, I heard in a lec-dem (forgot the presenter's name) that while Sn3pdS is available in sparing amount for both K and YK, it is more prevalent in practice of YK to use only the lower scale version ie in manthra sthayi whereas both sthayi versions are available for K.
Just a microscopic point, that's all. I was struck by it because it is a rare case where the sthayi actually matters in CM.

Another instance where sthayi matters is PNNS in rItigauLa which is mostly in the lower scale.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 04 Sep 2010, 02:28

vainika wrote:Another instance where sthayi matters is PNNS in rItigauLa which is mostly in the lower scale.

In this case, I think it is a question of having the ability (for a vocalist) to hit the lower M (M1 that too!)... rather than a "rItI" for rItIgauLa. no? :^)

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 04 Sep 2010, 05:50

Lower ma should definitely be part of the range. For example, ragas like abhOgi use it (comes in varnam itself).

Arun

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 07 Sep 2010, 20:40

venkatpv wrote:In this case, I think it is a question of having the ability (for a vocalist) to hit the lower M (M1 that too!)... rather than a "rItI" for rItIgauLa. no? :^)

VenkatPV,

In my understanding the rIti is not about M1N2N2S being disallowed in the mandra octave but about PN2N2S' usage being disallowed/discouraged in the madhya octave. I'd like to hear others weigh in on this point...

Incidentally, TMK makes this point for both RG and NRG in his 2008 MM'utsavam concert, clip at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-_gDV_hUd0

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 08 Sep 2010, 09:01

The aTa tALa varNa in rItigauLa has no instance of NPNNS inthe madhya sthayi. The Cittaswara of janani ninnuvinA begins with an emphatic NPNNS in the mandra sthayi. A quick sampling of several popular krithis [dvaitamu sukhama, CEra rAvadEmirA, baDalika dhIra, rAga ratna mAlikaCE, nannu viDaci, tattvam ariya taramA] also does not reveal any NPNNS in the madhya sthayi. I agree with vainika that this usage is strongly discouraged.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 08 Sep 2010, 17:10

obviously, MNNS is always allowed... but why is PNNS allowed only in the mandra octave? my conjecture is that singing mandra M might be difficult (for some), and hence the "rule"... or is it a rule for aesthetic purposes?

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 09 Sep 2010, 01:01

There is a TMK "short lecdem note" somewhere on Youtube where he explains a bit about nArirItigowLa and he says for it no pnns in madya, but only in mandra (and I think no mnns in mandra), and says that rule is the same for rItigowLa as well. So I suspect this rule for nArirItigowLa may be found in SSP - and further corroborates the historical connection between the two

Arun

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 09 Sep 2010, 01:07

yes confirmed in SSP (guruguhap.org) that npnns is only in mandra stayi for nArirItigowLa - but doesnt explicitly rule out (nd)mnns in madya stayi. The tanam of venkatamakhi seems to have n n d m p s (mandra stayi) as well as n n n d m n n s.

Arun

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 09 Sep 2010, 01:42

rItigaula digression moved to http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 24#p173224

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 19 Dec 2016, 09:11

the inspiration
http://www.mediafire.com/file/8l5ke6581 ... hAstri.mp3
the inspired
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3gupd1k5f ... hAstri.mp3

courtesies a fellow forumite.Long disappeared in these parts

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 20 Dec 2016, 19:51

Respected Varsh-ji,
Thank you. Downloaded both the versions for study of nuances with the help of friends.

RSR · Post by **RSR** » 20 Dec 2016, 19:52

Respected Varsh-ji,
Thank you. Downloaded both the versions for study of nuances with the help of friends.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 23 Dec 2016, 07:33

http://www.mediafire.com/file/75lg5a28e ... _sivan.mp3
http://www.mediafire.com/file/vhqc5s6q9 ... nathan.mp3

yk sprightly vignettes

vainika · Post by **vainika** » 01 Feb 2021, 20:05

Just happened to listen to this wonderful lec-dem on Yadukula Kambhoji by Amrita Murali and L Ramakrishnan from the 2019 Music Academy series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvNMJ68aFhs&t=1s

shankarank · Post by **shankarank** » 18 Dec 2021, 14:45

Does the BhAshAnga of kAkali NiSadha has this approach? Direct attack?

https://soundcloud.com/shank-krishna/ykamboji-reply

This is from Dr Hemalatha's reply in Vid. Sumithra Vasudev's concert - Charsur Arts Foundation - Dec 20221 - ongoing premieres.

rasikas.org

yadukulakambhoji

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