Earners and Spenders in Carnatic Music

[kssr]

Who contribute most financially to Carnatic Music?

1. Is it the rasika- by buying tickets to concerts, buying CDs, making donations during free programmes?
2. Students of music who go to great lengths to learn from good gurus spending a lot of money, choosing the best pakka vadhyams, whatever be the cost, right from arengetram, travel from abroad, and self promotion?
3. Govt corporate sponsors, banks, psu - as a matter of policy, not necessarily interested in CM.
4. Private shops, corporates, businesses (saree, jewellery, etc) who spend a fortune as we can see.
5. Others

Who benefit most financially from Carnatic Music?

1. The artist who make a good buck during their peak years?
2. The sabhas? Has anyone come across sabha executives buzzing around in air planes for fixing concerts or whatever other purpose with the sabha money?
3. The private corporate sponsors? In the "money bags" string earlier on there was a big feeling that these entities twist CM for their benefit and make the quality suffer. Highly disputable argument. In many cases I wonder if they do get additional revenue by their generosity to CM.
4. Musical instruments manufacturer?
5. Industries that make equipment for CM- electronic veena, tambura, etc., ? Seldom can they be seen contributing anything financially to the sector which is their bread and butter.
6. Recording companies- manufacturer of CDs, etc.,? Retailers selling these?
7. Hall owners by renting out their halls to CM sabhas who do not have a place to conduct their programmes?

I am sure that it will be very interesting to study the economics of CM. The pie chart of where the buck comes from and where it goes .What is the total value of this CM industry? Just some food for thought. There are many competent CAs among the rasikas who may like to analyse and give us all a deeper understanding!

[hariniraghavan]

Its very difficult to analyse because the price of the ticket, the remuneration to artists, rent for the hall, the capacity of the hall, and other s are not uniform for all organisations. Even the sponsors contribute more to some sabhas depending on the popularity of the sabha and capacity of hall while they may not contribute as much to other sabhas. There are minor details where there is no uniform pattern of both earning and spending. However in my opinion the most benefit would be for the artist while the least benefit is for the organisers.
Harini.

[rshankar]

Umayalapuram Sri Swaminatha Iyer's take:

master the text, master melody, master laya and be a man of pure conduct and noble ideals, not a trader in music.”

[arasi]

kssr,
I appreciate your analysis of the economic side of the CM scene and as you say, this has been discussed in other threads too, directly or indirectly.
How much of it is in a rasikA's territoty? All those who are involved in a concert whom you bring to focus are those who are behind the scene as it were. Yes, without them, many of the concerts will not take place! The dedication and hard work of a sabha and the generosity of the sponsors are vital. However, when it comes to a rasikA, he/she is there merely to listen to some good/preferred music. Yes, there will be politics, misuse and power games here and there in organizations. Neither the musicians nor the listeners gain anything by diving into the ills that ail CM sabhAs. No, I don't say ignore them but to be preoccupied with them takes away our musical experience a few notches down. If I am a devotee who loves to go to my local temple morning and night, it is evident that I am interested only in the darSan of the deity therein. While I may observe and point out to the temple officials things which can be improved, how much of a fight would I put up with them on the running of the temple? It's the same with CM. I won't go overboard about dwelling on the negative points. Pointing them out and asking them to improve conditions is all that I would do. This is a personal view of course, but I'm afraid there are many others like me.
Not as if we have been indifferent to needed improvements in sabhas. Nick is proud that our demanding better toilets in sabhas in a thread here has worked! Yes, let's not be insensitive to things which need improving. Let's spell them out, but we can do very little when it comes to the running of sabhAs.

Ravi,
A tall order, but how nice it is to be reminded of what is ideal occasionally! To live up to it may be impossible but we need little inspiring memos every now and then

[kssr]

arasi:
I am not complaining about anything or anybody here. Just initiating a discussion to objectively understand one important aspect- the financial - of the CM scene. This discussion is not to take away the imprtance of the music itself or the fundamental role of the rasika to be a listener of music. It is an academic exercise. May be when the understanding is better people will come up with solutions for betterment of all parties by re allocating the resources without hurting anybody.
The CM field today is and has always been a very civilised group. There is also a reasonable free market system in operation. There is nothing to grumble and no one to blame at all. But when there are Managers who predict things like "The value of health care system or communication sector will grow from today's X Dollars to 7X dollars in 4 years", there can be managers who can make rough estimates of today's value of today's CM market/ business segment. I am trying to get responses from such managers.

[smala]

Now a new way to open those doors, get truly global and make more money - artists against free recordings can have a better chance, in fact if CM artists jumped on to this bandwagon, they'd do pretty well, I think.....160 mil users....

In the news today.....

*******


Apple has launched its first ever music-centric social networking site Ping that connects all its iTunes users and even allows them to interact with the artists. Ping connects iTunes’s 160 million plus users through iPhone and iPod touch, and it allows them to follow their friends and their
related stories

* Apple (iPhone) keeps stethoscopes at bay
* Apple unveils new iPod Nano Touch

favourite artists, reports Mashable.com. Apple has even launched a new version of iTunes called iTunes 10 which has been developed keeping Ping in mind.

ApplePing allows its users to interact with different artists as well. Artists want to get their music out to the masses, but they also want to make money....

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Apple-sin ... 95155.aspx

[arasi]

kssr,
I see what you mean.
It will certainly be a good thing if convenors get together to find ways of staging concerts more effectively. Agreeing upon certain points, they can then bring in the sponsors to put before them the consensus of their findings on how to effectively use the funds in presenting high quality CM.

[Nick H]

Who contribute most financially to Carnatic Music?
Who benefit most financially from Carnatic Music?

I don't care --- as long as there continue to be concerts to attend and enjoy.

Whilst that view may seem 100% selfish, it is not entirely, because I could say, "for us to enjoy."

Stepping back just a little, it would be nice if the whole thing was fair to all involved. It would be nice, just as two instances, if the sponsors feel that their sponsorship is worthwhile, and if all the artists are fairly paid...

[ragam-talam]

I don't care

Well, kssr did make it quite clear that he was trying to make an assessment of financial matters related to CM, and this may not be of much interest to some people.
kssr - perhaps we should try and find out how they go about assessing similar details in the western classical or rock music world. I suspect they do a sampling of representative values and use statistical techniques to scale the numbers up.

[Nick H]

As is often the case, I think Arasi put the matter both more delicately and more completely than I did!

[kssr]

kssr - perhaps we should try and find out how they go about assessing similar details in the western classical or rock music world. I suspect they do a sampling of representative values and use statistical techniques to scale the numbers up.

Every activity's total financial implication must be assessable, even if it is not a purely commercial or business one. It also includes charity. I am pretty sure Bill Gates has a fair idea of the money involment for his trust activity to produce a particualr result- say universal immunisation or fight against AIDS. My point was, if a specialist in such matters, can evaluate the role of each participant in the CM scene, with regard to spending and earning, we will have a better understanding of how the system is being sustained. Knowledge on the subject will help everyone to reorder priorities and distribution to make the best use of the available resources.

[ragam-talam]

Here's an approach that could get us started...
Given Chennai forms the bulk of CM activity (about 30-40%?):
1. Start listing all Chennai sabhas first.
2. Find out the concerts being held throughout the year in these sabhas. Sites such as ram's blog http://ramsabode.wordpress.com/concerts-in-chennai/ could provide us with this detail.
3. Estimate the costs incurred for each concert. You would need to get an average value for this; alternatively, come up with an ABC classification of the sabhas in terms of costs, and use different average values for each group.
4. Determine the total costs for the year based on the above.

Next would be to find out how much revenue is generated from these concerts. One could possibly get this value by determining which of the concerts in step 2 above are ticketed, and average ticket price (again, within ABC groupings). Ram's blog indicates ticketed vs free against each concert.

Re: sponsorships - list out the top 20 or 30 sponsors. Not sure how you can figure out how much they contribute though!

Others can chime in...

[kssr]

Re: sponsorships - list out the top 20 or 30 sponsors. Not sure how you can figure out how much they contribute though!
Many sabhas have published rates for display of banners, advt. in souvenirs , different levels of sponsorships and so on. Also, I am sure members can access balance sheets of major sabhas.Others can chime in...

Yeah. It is a good way to start. There may have to be entirely different method of evaluation in the case of the US (Canada, U.K.)segment.

[vasanthakokilam]

Every activity's total financial implication must be assessable, even if it is not a purely commercial or business one. It also includes charity. I am pretty sure Bill Gates has a fair idea of the money involment for his trust activity to produce a particualr result- say universal immunisation or fight against AIDS. My point was, if a specialist in such matters, can evaluate the role of each participant in the CM scene, with regard to spending and earning, we will have a better understanding of how the system is being sustained. Knowledge on the subject will help everyone to reorder priorities and distribution to make the best use of the available resources.

Good thinking. I know a little bit about how the western orchestras are managed and sustained. It is a combination of ticket sales, fund-raising, endowments and some governmental support. The role of the "arts administrator" who is the manager of the organization is multifold: Work out the arts program and the details ( the obvious one ), make sure everything he can do to increase ticket sales and establishing contact with the community at large, including identifying patrons and rich arts appreciating people.

This last part is an art form in itself and growing musical organizations spend a lot of effort on that. The effort here includes encouragement of charitable giving for the arts and create and sustain that 'giving' culture. The Arts Administrator needs to project the quality of the organization and show that the organization is multi-generational. That is what attract endowments, the fly by night ones may get some sponsorships and donations but not endowments which truly sustain arts organizations.

Without that, the equation that kssr is talking about will not balance. Whether it is in terms of commercial sponsorship or private donations, endowments, or whatever, that extra infusion of resources is needed for classical arts. In many countries governments play the role of supporting arts which is a bad idea. The American innovation in this space is the private charity for the arts. This does not mean organizations do not take government support. If they take it, it is only a minor part. This way, changing political climate does not affect these organizations that much. Of course, it is not easy to sustain something like this with private charity and endowments, that is why there are now MBA programs in Arts Administration in major universities. Musicians who have good administration skills would benefit from such degree programs and become arts administrators/managers.

John F. Kennedy Center for the performing arts in Washington D.C. conducts training sessions in Arts Administration since they firmly believe proper Arts Administration is needed for the preservation and sustenance of classical arts. They are also interesting in the arts community around the world, not just the U.S. They do take in people from other countries for these Arts Administration training programs. So, if someone from a Chennai Sabha wants to learn about all this, they can approach the center and see if they will take them in for that training program.