Ghatam or Grinder

[ajsriram]

Last time i wrote " I dont know if this is the right forum to write such messages" and there was no answer. I assume that this is the right place. I dont know how many of you have literally felt the meaning for the word "Cacophony". Here is one which is spreading like cancer in the field of divine music.

Ghatam or Grinder : http://it-all-happens.blogspot.com/

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Carnatic Music Turns Me On

[Nick H]

You don't like this (I don't like it either) --- so why waste your time listening to it and writing about it? You might just as well give us a minute of a Who concert, and ask if god created guitars to be smashed by these guys (no, I don't think so, either, although Hendrix, who I'm sure many would regard as having god-given talent did that stuff too).

No, there is no divine ordinance as to what instrument shall be used in what way in what kind of music. None whatsoever. If there was, thunderbolts would be much more regular.

This is kid's stuff. It is for a young audience, and, if it manages to convince them that there is something beyond the horizons of film music, then we rasikas should call that a success.

Let's leave them to enjoy.

[mankuthimma]

Nick
He is talking about spreading like cancer in our divine Music . And has a point to know what we all think of the trend.

You may not feel the pain , but when a Hindu review sports lines like in todays Hindu ,

Wild gesticulations , strident notes, might meets mandolin , flamboyant push of sahitya , several curlicues and arabesques. extravaganza,dramatising the raga image with raw energy, wild gesticulations , Aruna overpowering Shrinivas ,power packed fireworks. with their stormy trajectories of rhythm-centred approaches, her frenzied ‘Vittala Vittala’ refrain drew cheerful applause.

we are indeed going downhill , pretty fast.
Damn It , I hate to have my living quarters within 100 metres of that auditorium , even if I cant hear that music.
it is one the finest auditoriums in Chennai , dishing out trash .Week after Week. Take a look at it . It is an aesthetic delight.That Lady Andal school auditorium.


Where are the likes of S Ramanathan ? Pray .Where are those sensibilities fast disappearing into ?

That is the cry of ajsriram . and I understand it .

[Nick H]

And you act on it... by helping to preserve the music you love, and even by presenting concerts maintaining your standards of purity and brilliance. You know I support this wholeheartedly --- and that support is what us tiny participants on the ground can do: it is a small contribution, but we make it, by our choice of concerts that we attend. I would not have gone to the concert of which you quote the review, but some of those who did might, one day, come to one of your concerts. Even if they don't, then each to their own.

Surely, that same evening, there were audiences watching serious and beautiful carnatic music in other halls not so far away? So how can it be a cancer? Did it diminish those audiences? Has the decade-or-two old "fusion" thing done any real damage to genuine carnatic music?

ajsriram's video is really an example of this sort of thing at its worst. Goodness, even I could dress in fancy silks and shout takadhimitakajuno into a microphone (maybe I missed a career option there! ) --- but what if it catches the interest of even a very few of those youngsters?

There are no thunderbolts. Even I could have wished for one, recently, when hearing a tani in which there was no nadam and plenty of calculations. Music took a backseat (no, it got out of the car and walked away!) to maths...

[mankuthimma]

Average attendance - not counting the hosts , relatives and the mike men - for our concerts has been around Ten . :devil:

Prema Rengarajan's concert started off to an audience of Zero - again not counting the hosts et all. Inviting her was a criminal act on my part .

I can relate all my sob stories here . Why do you think I started collaborating with Brahaddwani = It was only for their committed audience of students !!!!

ajsriram comes from a hoary tradition as does this ghatam player from my part of India .

Nick I wish you were there for Lalgudi concerts at Krishna Gana Sabha in the 80s . Mridangam students of all hues would descend , just in time for the Thani Avarthanams for Guru Karaikudi Mani . Time and again.
The mood would be so electric that I did not realise that I had picked up the habit eating Kumbakonam Betel Leaves .
Something which I kicked two decades later . :tmi:
Arun talks of an analogy of a fast moving train somewhere . I ran for decades to catch it and train myself for good Music . I ate and drank stories of the GasLamp-led processions around temple agraharams , the Search for the elusive Kariakurchi minutes before the start of a hypnotic night , Three open Pandals within 500 square metres featuring three greats simultaneously , The joyous moods at Devakottai Festivals and other places , the canings by parents for having attended late night concerts .
Those are enduring images which tell a different story of a past that has changed quickly . Why blame me If I dont attend concerts . The artist community is not doing its part . Everybody is on some bandwagon that tom toms themselves.
That much I am sure about .
So Let ajsriram have his say . Atleast until market forces corrupt him too. ;(

[Nick H]

Prema Rengarajan's concert started off to an audience of Zero

hey, I was there, surely! She is one of the several artists to whom you have introduced me, and I have seen her a number of times since.

Sure, I wish I'd been here in the 80s, and earlier. I'm old enough to have seen PSP play, had I not been born far away*.

So Let ajsriram have his say

And let me disagree. Maybe there has always been crap. Maybe it is there in every tradition or genre. Maybe not crap, maybe mediocrity? If so, then why are the names that people glorify from the past not in the hundreds, instead of just a few?




*If I had been born in India, I'd probably now be devoted to Western rock music, or, god forbid, to the mass of mediocre film music. Maybe things worked out .

[mankuthimma]

Maybe there has always been crap. Maybe it is there in every tradition or genre. Maybe not crap, maybe mediocrity? If so, then why are the names that people glorify from the past not in the hundreds, instead of just a few?

There was never any crap in CM . We are not talking of every tradition or genre here . Let us not muddy the logic by bringing in mediocrity . The post was against crap . And should stay that way .

Who said that the names from the past are not in hundreds , instead of just a few ? That may be your view of that world.
If you are willing to take an inventory with samples . I am willing to put clips without names , that will tickle 90 % of the brains here , in their hurry to put a name to that face.
And I can give you more than a hundred .
If that cant get you angry , so be it.

Much As I like Nick and his Morsing , I am afraid that I have to conclude that this fusion stuff in CM is a poor attempt by the drum masters to create a niche segment for themselves . 99 % of the crap can be traced to them.
Man , Dont they "feel' Music? I was at a Musical bash yesterday where the Mridangam and khanjira vidwans played with a double sided violin ( L Sankar style) for a select audience comprising mostly of musicians . I Cannot believe how this young generation of musicians could stand that hammering of the poor leather. Not one was angry enough to go up and ask them for some "soukhyam"

Curse that first occasion when the "neither here nor there" Pot was flung into air , and caught with alacrity.
That empty pot, which can only take in Gas . I have never been able to understand its place in the scheme of things.

[mankuthimma]

And I remember having a spat with Sangeeth Rasik when he got angry with an artist on similar lines .
Which , in hindsight , shows my ignorance at that point of time . ;(
I have evolved well enough to understand him today.

In a very sensitive chapter in the Rise and Fall of the Third Reich by William Shirer , Goebbels tells a dissenting father :
I am working with my propaganda work on the youngest of the young . I have taken care of the future . I dont care what you are dissenting about .You all will be history soon.
The failure of a generation to get angry for the right reasons led to what we have known but not experienced.
But you were pretty close to those bombs, I guess.

Musically speaking , I felt my case was let down, yesterday , when TVG walked out with an excuse .After just 5 minutes.
Rather than hear those drum beats . Lambodara Lakumikara , Viriboni , Sobillu Sapthaswara , Thelisi Rama and many more gems went under the hammer . The only mercy was that Nada Thanmunisam was not chosen to be demystified on the double violin.

My apologies to Sasikiran for being an ungrateful guest , yesterday. I can do whatever it takes , to make up for that .
But allow me to stay angry.

[mankuthimma]

palliative care for ajsriram
http://www.mediafire.com/?j9l4b852uz4nukg

[Nick H]

Well, 'thimma, our only real difference is that I think that the world has room for different performances for different people.

I am afraid that I have to conclude that this fusion stuff in CM is a poor attempt by the drum masters to create a niche segment for themselves . 99 % of the crap can be traced to them.

You are probably right there. Enter the drum kit. Enter also young relatives of big-name musical-families who don't, themselves, actually have any skill other than thumping a drum kit. Don't think these performances don't cause me pain too!

[ajsriram]

@Nick : I don't want to keep quiet and the reason being, I really dont want the next generation kids to think that, this is what music is all about. To be even more specific, I am personally worried about my kids (Blood related or non-Blood related). I dont want them to listen to these kind of music and never want them to think this is way "thaka Jimi Thaka Janu" is used for.

I am happy that i am living at time where there are few "traditional" artists who are performing on stage with out any cheap tricks. If the "current trend"/"changing tradition" continues, the kids can listen only to "Thaara", "Thappata" and nothing else.

Thank god, I got the best "grand father" and a Guru(s), who made me listen to concerts and making sure that they are good concerts. Still i am relishing with old memories about the concerts of Great maestros in "18(Pathinettu) Gramam" and the full night concert of Thiruveezhimizhalai brothers. Yes these thing still happen in one or two remote villages and sometimes in chennai too and it gets unnoticed to "so called" Elite crowd.

@Mankuthimma : I am sure i will not get corrupted

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Carnatic Music Turns Me On

[Nick H]

ajsriram: yes, I understand, and appreciate what you mean. But don't those same children (even including your own) watch movies? If they can watch movies without coming to believe that that is what music is all about, then is it not just possible that may know that there is more to carnatic music than what is illustrated in your clip? (which doesn't actual merit the label CM, of course).

Proper talavadya kutcheries might even help to rear a generation that does not walk out of the tani!

[arasi]

Thimma,
Valid points but this is all too much fire and brimstone, in the dimming eyes of my age! Sorry, even Harimau at times comes across as someone who does 'aDakki vAsippadu' (playing it a notch down)
Ah, the frenzy of young ones! And a few of those 'not needed' adjectives you throw in to make your point! If the supplier of choice music, the benefactor speaks this way, surely, the situation can sound even more hopeless to the young and this is not going to encourage those who have the inclination towards listening to CM and even learning it!

Nick,
As you say, there are more musicians who sing and play classical music all around town. It's like saying: 'all' sari shops are money-making mega merchants mafia, the end of our rich heritage of weaving industry. We all know that's not true. We also know that they have not taken over the entire populace and have left no room for the smaller and modest shops to survive. Khadi, after a lull in sales over the years (stil, not extinct), is back in the scene--youngsters favoring it too now--please don't bring in politics here by saying, the fat politicians are regular customers! The past fifteen years, I'm in touch with the live CM scene and find that there are more musicians than in the good old days who perform and cater to different tastes in classical CM. Of course, as with everything else, globalization has touched the music scene too). Fusion music bereft of quality and other worthless experiments are reflections of our times-money making being one of the motives. But all is not lost!

Thimma,
There's nothing new about concerts (born out of your genuine efforts) being poorly attended. Even in far off places, and with CM minded folks supposed to be thirsting for good music, it is common--why just Chennai and BengaLUru? It has more to do with the inertia in getting oneself out of the house, in most cases. The best of rasikAs at times have other responsibilities at that hour to attend to, for sure.
After all, numbers aren't everything. Your efforts count. So do the efforts and encouragement of others. We are not going to bring about a revolution and change everything overnight.
As I mentioned before, there are more young artistes now and more little ones learning CM now than ever before, and the quality of their music we hear is encouraging.
When I was a little girl, in one of the neighborhoods where we lived, a neighbor got so worked up when a new movie theatre was built close by. I still remember his rantings and ravings (scary, to a youngster) that we were ruined and that the children were bound to be victims of the immorality and lewdness which the movie house represented!

[mankuthimma]

Arasi
I can only say I am disappointed at your reply .
Me , just a supplier of Choice Music . So that sums up , is it ??
Pity , you did not see more than that . For so many years. Not that I care much about that interpretation.
A bigger pity that I get the true testimonials,mostly through mail and in Person .
And your comment that I was a notch up even on harimau was unnecessary . From the points of view of both - harimau and myself .
And dont just fall into the trap that harimau is just another prankster .He is a far more serious and committed rasika than all of you guys can imagine.
And I may be knowing something that you dont know . That too for quite some time

You contradict yourself many times in your reply .Especially this thread was a direct one .You and I know that CM is vastly more complicated in terms of aesthetics and a hundred other things to see just from Nick's simple eyes .

I like to be remembered as a true gentleman , ( much like Audrey Hepburn clutching at her bosom and saying - I am a laidy . Laidy I am , to Prof Higgins ) with an aching heart for things disappearing fast .
If you can hold on to those views with your lineage , I am happy for you .
I am happy that I cant boast of any such thing ,.Except the secrets in my DNA .

The past fifteen years, I'm in touch with the live CM scene and find that there are more musicians than in the good old days who perform and cater to different tastes in classical CM

I find your statement amazing . It is not a toggle( Yes/No) mode of decision and I have always held the position that things are different between generations and have , very often lauded the good things of todays generation .
And talk of sarees . Wonder if you have visited the people who weave .In small huts , dotted around the kancheepuram district . If you know who makes all the money , you will never wear a Kanchee Saree again .

As far as poor attendance to our concerts is concerned - I was not asking for explanations . Was just making a point.
That there are very few fellow- believers .For things that I want to raise my hand for .
You need not respond to my post .For I will not dwell on this again.

[Nick H]

Right. That's another thread I'm giving up on.

What do I have to choose between these days? quarrelling on the one hand, and doom and gloom on the other.

[Sreeni Rajarao]

Mankuthimma (Sir!),
I can only say that I feel your pain, as I read this thread and the other one under Music and Fesitvals where the words are straight out of your heart (related to some performers objecting to recording the concerts that you have organized)
Please take it easy.

Sreeni Rajarao

[arasi]

Thimma,
I was speaking as a good friend of yours (that's what I consider myself to be). A good friend doesn't give you testimonials--we take our mothers and brothers for granted, friends too, sometimes. Among all your service to CM, your benevolence and dedication in sharing is a special quality which hardly anyone shares here. If I say that Lakshman is the great giver of lyrics, it does not mean that I don't recognize him for his other sterling qualities as a rasikA. Supposing I got the impression from what you said of my lineage that that's all I'm in your eyes, that wouldn't be fair. You think of me as a friend who is not exclusively that! You know your intense love for CM is something anyone would admire.It is the 'way' in which you spoke of it just now. If such idealistic doers like you sound pessimistic, I felt this could be disouraging for the new aspirants in CM. That's all. Well, I will say this: please note that we cannot forget that you are a valuable component of rasikAhood in today's CM scene. However you express your ideas, I wouldn't mind it from now on on, because a friend is a friend, and you are one.

[Nick H]

Well, perhaps with less right than Arasi has to call myself friend, I feel the same.

I feel sad when even someone who is doing good work for the future expresses sounds so pessimistic.