Rendering of Kritis

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 15 Aug 2006, 09:26

I may inform the viewers that Thyagaraja Kritis together with word-by-word meanings are being blogged by me - a kriti each day - in the following web sites - http://www.sulekha.com/blogs/blogdispla ... aja%20Dasa , http://spaces.msn.com/vgovindan/Persona ... c=blogpart and
http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.com/

The meanings of Kritis in English and Tamil, and Kritis only in Devanagari, Tamil, Telugu, Malayalam, Kannada, Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Oriya and Punjabi scripts are available in MS Word or (Acrobat) PDF file or iLeap versions. These are being e-mailed daily. If anyone is interested to receive the same by e-maill, please contact me at [email protected] specifying the format required – MS Word or Acrobat PDF or iLeap. Fonts for viewing the document in MS Word and iLeap Lite package may be downloaded free from www.cdac.in.

In order to compile the meanings, I have compared four different books (1) Compositions of Tyagaraja by Shri TK Govinda Rao (Ganamandir Publications) (2) The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja by Shri C Ramanujachari (Sri Ramakrishna Math, Chennai Publication) (3) Sadguru Sri Tyagaraja Swami Keerthanaigal (Tamil) by Shri TS Vasudevan and Shri AK Gopalan (AK Gopalan Publishers, Chennai) (4) Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams (Telugu) by Shri KV Srinivasa Iyengar (M Adi & Co publications).

The intention is to gather as much information as possible from all sources and to produce an authentic version of Thyagaraja Kritis along with meanings and make them available to general public and in all languages of India.

In each Kriti which has been blogged or sent by e-mail, I have been indicating the variations found in the above said books and invited comments from one and all.

The compiled versions are to be made available on CD at a nominal cost of Rs. 35/- to cater only for production cost.

Further, the work is not copy-righted and anyone can use the information blogged or sent as e-mail and even re-produce the same without any restriction; there is no need to inform me. However, I would like them not to make any commercial gain out of it.

In my endevour, I have treated the Thyagaraja Kritis purely as a devotional literature. Those who are interested for svara aspects of the Kritis may visit the following website - http://www.ecse.rpi.edu/Homepages/shivk ... gasuga.htm which caters for this requirement.

I sincerely beseech one and all to place your comments so that these could be compiled.
May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all.
V Govindan

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 15 Aug 2006, 13:36

Very good work VGvidan.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 16 Aug 2006, 19:54

excellent! Thanks Govindan.

Arun

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 16 Aug 2006, 21:18

Great Effort. Thanks for sharing!
Ravi

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 16 Aug 2006, 23:34

I am giving hereunder a quote from (the translated version of) Kalki Deepavali issue of 1990 as given in the website –
http://www.carnaticcorner.com/articles/ … lated.htm. This quote is an excerpt from a conversation between Kanchi Paramacharya Chandrasekharendra Saraswati and the great musician Ariyakkudi Ramanuja Iyengar which took place at Devakottai in the year 1961. In the subsequent postings, I shall explain why I am placing this quote here.

"Heard of your receiving the Rashtrapathi award. You would have walked on a red carpet, and been honored in a gathering of eminent persons. But me, I have made you walk on stones and bush and made you sit in a dinghy room.

"Why I called you is, I long have had a desire to listen to 'ShrI SubrahmanyAya namasthE' rendered perfectly. On hearing you are around, the desire has re-surfaced. Perfect rendition means both the music and the lyrics (sangItham and sAhityam). Many people disfigure the words of Sanskrit and Telugu kirtanas to the extent that we wish they never sang.

"The music part (swarAs), the rhythm part and the 'sAhitya chandas' - what is called 'chandam' in Tamil - would be given for most songs.

The proper way to split and combine words would also be given. The musician has to take care to synchronize the music, rhythm and chandas and split and combine the words correctly so as not to spoil the meaning. The compositions of good composers definitely allow this (padham pirichu pAdaradhu) but many musicians simply concentrate on the music and rhythm, and ignore the meaning, sometimes leading to ridiculous meanings! "Even in this song 'ShrI SubrahmanyAya namasthE', we have a line 'guruguhAyAgnAna dwAnta savithrE'. This must be split as 'guruguhAya agnAna dwAnta savithrE' i.e. 'the one who is the sun for the darkness of ignorance'. Some sing it as 'guruguhAyA....... gnana dwAnta savitrE', ' one who is the sun for the darkness of knowledge'! "I do not know if you sing the kriti 'SankarAchAryam' (Sri Subbarama Sastri's Sankarabharanam kriti), but Veena Dhanamma's family, Semmangudi Seenu, MS sing this. There is a line 'paramAdvaita sthApana leelam' - means 'one who so easily, like a game, founded the great Advaita philosophy' - it is to be sung with stress on the 'A' of 'Advaita' (Paramacharya sings this line) to give the intended meaning. If we really cared, we can, even without proper training, sing with proper meaning. Those I mentioned above also sing properly.

But those who do not care, stretch the 'paramAAAA' and then sing 'dwaita sthApana leelam', converting the Advaita Acharya to Dwaita Acharya! (laughs heartily for a long time) "No doubt, in music, there is no Dvaita - Advaita difference. Only music is important. And music makes the mind of the singer into unison with the song - the protagonist of the song. That is why, 'ShrI SubrahmanyAya namasthE' is attached to you - a Vaishnavite - or you are attached to it! I have heard you sing that song. I do not have to say anything about your musical ability; and the sahitya part too you do correctly. Which is why I have called you here.

"In my dharbar there is only stones and bushes. There is no accompaniment, not even sruti. But please do sing that kriti for me, in spite of all these." When Paramacharya stopped his torrent, Ariyakkudi was in tears. He prostrated once again, and said "there is no other prestige for me than to be asked by 'periyavA' to sing, and singing for periyavA. I have no words to express the magnanimity of PeriyavA, considering me as somebody and giving me this chance. PeriyavA's grace has to fill in for the sruti and accompaniment and enable me to sing to the level I am expected to", and readied himself to begin the song.

May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 18 Aug 2006, 18:20

The purpose of my writing, is to highlight the errors committed in the rendition of kritis of Saint Thyagaraja. Please mark the words of Kanchi Paramacharya - Perfect rendition means both the music and the lyrics (sangItham and sAhityam). Many people disfigure the words of Sanskrit and Telugu kirtanas to the extent that we wish they never sang.. This comment was made in the year 1961. More than 45 years have passed since then. We should ask ourselves whether Paramacharya's word had any effect on the musicians.
I would first present an example of this. Take the kriti - cakkani rAja mArgamu - Raga kharaharapriya. The kRti is as under -

P cakkani rAja mArgamul(u)NDaga
sandula dUran(E)la O manasA

P O My Mind (manasA)! When there are (uNDaga) fine (chakkani) royal (rAja) paths (mArgamulu) (mArgamuluNDaga), why (Ela) enter (dUra) (dUranEla) bylanes (sandula)?

A cikkani pAlu mIgaDa(y)uNDaga
chI(y)anu gaGgA sAgaram(E)lE (cakkani)

A When there are (uNDaga) condensed (cikkani) milk (pAlu) and cream (mIgaDa) (mIgaDayuNDaga), why (Ela) this destestable (chIyanu) (literally saying) toddy (gaGgA sAgaramu) (sAgaramElE)? O My Mind! When there are fine royal paths, why enter bylanes?

C kaNTiki sundara taramagu rUpamE
mukkaNTi nOTa celagE nAmamE
tyAgarAjiNTanE nelakonn(A)di daivamE(y)iTu-
(v)aNTi zrI sAkEta rAmuni bhakti(y)anE (cakkani)

C A form (rUpamE) of classic (taramagu) beauty (sundara) which is a feast to the eyes (kaNTiki), a name (nAmamE) which shines (celagE) in the mouth (nOTa) of Lord ziva - the three-eyed (mukkaNTi), and as the First (Adi) Lord (daivamE) firmly established (nelakonna) (nelakonnAdi) in the very house (iNTanE) of this tyAgarAja (tyAgarAju) (tyAgarAjiNTanE);
O My Mind! when there is the fine royal path called (anE) devotion (bhakti) (bhaktiyanE) to Lord zrI rAma (rAmuni) of ayOdhyA (sAkEta) having the above (iTu) (literally these) attributes (aNTi) (daivamEyiTuvaNTi), why enter bylanes?

I have heard this kRti sung by Maharajapuram Santhanam. While singing the charana portion -tyAgarAjiNTanE nelakonna - he repeats four times -jiNTanE. The words are -tyAgarAju iNTanE - the house of tyAgaraja. All that is needed is to drop the consonant j and repeat iNTanE without affecting the metre and sahitya.

Today there is a post in 'Languages' about another tyAgarAja kRti 'graha balamEmi' wherein the kRti is being sung in such a manner totally twisting the meaning.

To amplify, if some one sings the Subrahmanya Bharati kriti 'cinnaJjiriu kiLiyE' as 'naJjiru kiliyE', how the listener would feel? (naJju means poison)
In my school days, our Tamil pandit used to make jokes with the students with the phrase 'sukku miLagu tippili' as 'sukkumi Laguti ppili'. That situation continues to prevail even today.

May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

subram · Post by **subram** » 18 Aug 2006, 18:37

Tamilians need to learn Telugu before attempting to sing Saint Thyagarajar's krithis otherwise distortions will continue. I hope the new generation will understand the need.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 18 Aug 2006, 18:42

Well, a musician must learn the language of the composition he/she sings in - not just tamilians needing to learn telugu. Also, knowing a language is no gaurantee that the words are split correctly...
Ravi

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 18 Aug 2006, 20:39

Ravi,
You are right. With our old languages being rich with varied meanings for a single word, just knowing the language is not enough (we come across it often while translating songs). This shouldn't scare anyone away from learning compositions in languages other than their own (think of John Higgins, Japenese bharatanatyam dancers and so on).
Just as a student expends time in learning swaras and sangatis, he/she should also be interested in trying to understand the lyrics--pronounciation too, so that he/she can FEEL the intent and fervor of the lyrics. It works the same way as with sAhitya and laya. Too much emphasis on tAla takes away the bhAva of the song, and getting carried away with the meaning (as in my case!) means sacrificing the tALa.
A study of languages is not what is essential, but to CARE to know the meaning of any given composition one learns, and to as far as possible pronounce the words correctly makes the student a better one; earns a performer more appreciation. Thank goodness, we have books available now, atleast in the case of tyAgarAja to help us! vgvindan is adding to the value of it. We need books in other languages too.
I have said it before. Music colleges should give sAhitya its place in their syllubi
and expect students to understand the meaning of the chosen compositions. The same with other teachers. The younger the student, the better it is to develop in them an awareness for the sAhitya. Otherwise, instrumental music alone will do for us, our not needing any words for the appreciation of music. Are we all for it?
:rolleyes:

Music · Post by **Music** » 18 Aug 2006, 21:30

Thanks for the meanings, Vgvindan. People like me cannot relish a song fully without understanding the meaning. By rendering/listening to any song without understanding the meaning, we only get to enjoy a small part of what the songs have to offer. Might as well listen to the song in akaram! And analyses like yours help a lot.
Tyagaraja's songs in particular bring out the essence of our ancient scriptures & thus make the latter more understandable and readily available.

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 18 Aug 2006, 22:29

vgvindan,
great work!!

TRS in a lecdem last December said:"if it takes one month to learn a song, spending one more day is enough to understand its meaning... but everybody is in a hurry... to sing on stage!!!"

gsn · Post by **gsn** » 19 Aug 2006, 00:08

TRS still gives lecdems? Wow, the things we miss out on account of not being in India at the right time : ) I absolutely love his "Pallavi Without Tears" concept, haha.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 19 Aug 2006, 10:59

dArini telusukoNTi - Raga zuddha sAvEri - Thyagaraja Kriti

In the previous post, I discussed about rendering of the kriti 'cakkani rAja mArga'. In this post, I shall discuss about the subject kriti.

The pallavi of the kriti is -

dArini telusukoNTi tripura sundari ninnE zaraNaNTi

Maharajapuram Santanam has rendered this kriti by starting the pallavi as 'dArini telusukoNTi tripura sun' and repeats it 10 times as 'dArini telusukoNTi tripura sun-dArini' before rendering the pallavi with 'tripura sundari' correctly.

In Telugu, there are two words 'dari' meaning 'limit', 'bound' etc and 'dAri' meaning 'path', 'way' etc. The Saint has used the word 'dAri' in the kriti. The word is not ony restricted to pallavi but to be connected to the ending words of Anupallavi and all the caraNas. Anupallavi ending word 'mOkSa' with 'dArini' of pallavi, caraNa 1 ending word 'OllalAducuNDu' with 'dArini' of pallavi, caraNa 2 ending word 'nityAnandulaina' with 'dArini' of pallavi, and caraNa 3 ending word 'mukti mArgamanukona' with 'dArini' of pallavi. Obviously, the word 'dArini' cannot be substituted for 'darini'.

Even here, the rendering could have been repeated as 'dArini telusukoNTi' only and not by joining 'tripura sun' - a part of the word 'tripurasundari'. How can we break the word 'tripura sundari' as 'tripura sun'? This is what the sage of Kanchi brought out in his conversation with Ariyakkudi Ramanuja Iyengar as quoted in my previous post.

Further, it pains me to note that in order to keep up with what the musicians have improvised to faclitate rendering kritis, the books have adapted them also. According to the Book of TSV/AKG, it is 'darini telusukoNTi' and not 'dArini telusukoNTi'. The same word 'dari' is given as an alternative word in the book of TKG.
The kritis of Saint Thyagaraja need not have met this kind of fate within a span of 100 years and that too from our musicologists who eulogise the saint at every occasion. If our ancestors had been so casual in preserving our heritage, our country would not have been left with any literature worth its name.

Who is going to bell the cat?

I hope the musicians will take note of these aberrations and correct them.

May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

Books Referred -
CR - The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja by Shri C Ramanujachariar
ATK - Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams by Shri KV Srinivas Iyengar (Telugu)
TKG - Compositions of Tyagaraja by Shri TK Govinda Rao
TSV/AKG - Sadguru Shri Thyagaraja Swamy Keerthanaigal (Tamil) by Shri TS Vasudevan and Shri AK Gopalan

PS : This kriti is being posted as a blog tomorrow and being e-mailed. If anyone is interested, he/she may contact me at [email protected]

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 19 Aug 2006, 14:01

subram wrote:Tamilians need to learn Telugu before attempting to sing Saint Thyagarajar's krithis otherwise distortions will continue. I hope the new generation will understand the need.

I agree with this observation. I think even before venturing into singing, whoever it may be, the singer must first understand the meaning word by word and then alone start singing. Here is an example of how this song is murdered:

1. Madhi Sekaran Magane, Madha Varana Mukhane ..
This is rendered as "Madhava...... RaNa Mukhane".... (Mukham with ulcers)

Yet another:

2. Manasuloni Marmamulu
Rendered as "Manasulonimar Mamulu....

A poet once remarked most disparagingly how musicians murder the language (this is not unparliamentary, therefore moderators may allow it to appreciate the point):

Engo Manam Veesudae...
Rendered as: En komanam Veesudae...

My knowledge of Sanskrit is absolutely zero. I once heard a Vidwan telling me that the way the Bhavayaami song is being rendered, somewhere in the song, it gives the meaning "Rama, after killing Vaali, removed his moustache.." (Even in Sanskrit I am told that the word Meesam means Meesai in Tamil). Sanskrit scholars may throw some light on this to check the veracity of the statement.

Kaumaaram

kiransurya · Post by **kiransurya** » 19 Aug 2006, 16:37

kaumaaram wrote:
subram wrote:Tamilians need to learn Telugu before attempting to sing Saint Thyagarajar's krithis otherwise distortions will continue. I hope the new generation will understand the need.
I agree with this observation. I think even before venturing into singing, whoever it may be, the singer must first understand the meaning word by word and then alone start singing. Kaumaaram

We dont need to learn the language. We can atleast learn how to pronounce each and every word of the song and must know its meaning. That helps a lot.

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 20 Aug 2006, 08:51

Great work vgvindan

Not only the correct pronounciation but the correct bhava also matters, especially for Satguru's kritis which are incident based. The following is a coomment by a veteran after hearing cakkani rAja .- "Intha pattu raja pathayila ther pora mathiri irukkanum. Ana Madras roadle auto pora madiri padara"

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 20 Aug 2006, 20:19

I have deleted all pointless arguments here. No one can say who should learn what. This 'holier than thou' stand has never served any useful purpose anywhere.

Vgvindan, please continue your enlightening posts.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Aug 2006, 20:26

i would like to revert back to the topic at hand (btw, vgvindan/srkris - it is confusing as to why very similar topics appear under "General Discussion" as well as Vaggeyakaras. I always have to look in two places).

Regarding the suddhasaveri krithi, i would like some more light shed on this. First of all I would like to confess that I dont know telugu and I dont know this krithi as in how it is rendered, so please view these as just questions from an inquisitive mind:
1. while the presented arguments for dArini is good based on linkage to anupallavi and caranam, what do the words darini and dArini mean given the meaning for dari and dAri (this should make it obvious that i dont know telugu). I presume it is implied that such a linkage is not possible if darini is used - but it helps me if is spelt out in more detail.
2. The TSP book mentions darini and anupallavi is also maruni so that poetic rules are intact (i would like to stress that in endaro i mentioned the same, and dvi-aksharaprasa if i am not mistaken is not to be trifled with and cannot be compromised that easily). With another book I have where it is dArini, it is mAruni. So what are the meanings of the words maruni and mAruni? Are they interchangeable?
3. I also see in this website: http://www.malayalavedhi.com/wbboard/pr ... fab&page=1 that a manuscript in possession of a family that was related to Tyagaraja supposedly mentions darini vs dArini.
4. I dont know how the krithi is rendered, but from what I would make out, in Adi 1-kalai, "Ti" in koNTi, will fall on the start second cycle of tala, and "pu" in tripura will fall on the first dhrutam. Given this how can you do "the rendering could have been repeated as 'dArini telusukoNTi' only"? It seems to be that musically it just wont flow? Now of course this may imply it was meant to be which in turn leads to uncomfortable point that all the nice sangatis known in this krithi were not originally there? But if I am wrong, can you please elucidate on this?

Point #4 I am not sure I am on the right track, but just in case I am, then i think it seems very important. While I certainly understand the lyric felicity aspect being discussed, I just want to point out that one cannot compromise the musicality in trinity krithis also - there must be a right balance.

Thanks
Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Aug 2006, 20:56

vgvindan wrote:Even here, the rendering could have been repeated as 'dArini telusukoNTi' only and not by joining 'tripura sun' - a part of the word 'tripurasundari'. How can we break the word 'tripura sundari' as 'tripura sun'?

Govindan. Using puns for effect in literature or music is well known and well appreciated. Is there a need to split hairs here between dArini and sundarini? I can see tyAgarAja punning on dari and dAri. In music, there is some lenience in stretching of sAhitya. Now one can sing "darini" in such a manner as to hear it both as dari and dAri (without opening the mouth too much). "dArini telusukoNTi", "mOkSha dArini" are all very well. But I can certainly see him wanting the word to be combine with tirpura sun-- to bring the effect of sundari. I first heard the kRti rendered by Bombay sisters in seshadripuram Rama navami concert in Bangalore about 12-13 years ago. And I tell you, the effect was electrifying when sundari appeared

. The use of maruni/mAruni janakuDaina in anupallavi is also supportive of this. In telugu, as you will know. both mAru & maru(maruganna srI rAmacandra in "mAKElarA", ravicandrike, marubAri and countless other examples) mean manmatha/Cupid. ANd that word blends with kumAruni. So I say, tyAgarAJa deliberately punned on the words here.

Arunk, This answers your question too about maruni/mAruni. SO T has not tampered with the prosody rules here. He never did.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Aug 2006, 21:11

drs - thanks. But just to clarify. I was not implying Tyagaraja tampered with rules, in fact the opposite - I was saying that one has to always account for them in such arguments. Maybe it didnt come out clearly.

Also - am i even close to being right that if you cannot dove-tail back after "sun", musically the krithi would be very different (from how we hear it now) in a significant manner. Wouldnt the current sangatis in pallavi be harder to execute or be not as grand?

Thanks
Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 20 Aug 2006, 21:15

arunk wrote:drs - thanks. But just to clarify. I was not implying Tyagaraja tampered with rules, in fact the opposite - I was saying that one has to always account for them in such arguments. Maybe it didnt come out clearly.

Of course you did not imply he had tampered with rules. I had no doubts about it. I remeber our discussion earlier about prosody in music when you raised this point about T. Maybe on Board or here. I only drove that home for the benefit of everyone.

Also - am i even close to being right that if you cannot dove-tail back after "sun", musically the krithi would be very different (from how we hear it now) in a significant manner. Wouldnt the current sangatis in pallavi be harder to execute or be not as grand?

Exactly. ALl the sangatis would have to have to be thown out of the window unless of course one chooses to sing both lines together for about 10 times(* 2 if each sangati is repeated twice)

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 20 Aug 2006, 21:39

rajumds wrote:Great work vgvindan

Not only the correct pronounciation but the correct bhava also matters, especially for Satguru's kritis which are incident based. The following is a coomment by a veteran after hearing cakkani rAja .- "Intha pattu raja pathayila ther pora mathiri irukkanum. Ana Madras roadle auto pora madiri padara"

I want to understand properly what 'bhavam' actually means. It seems to be used in multiple different ways..
Paraphrasing Arasi, 'the performer should FEEL the intent and fervor of the lyrics', that makes sense to me as an internal driver to put 'something' into the music. How does that exhibit itself in the performance? Is 'emoting' over the lyrics an essential part of 'bhava'?
Or it is one of those case where 'it is hard to explain, but I will know it if I hear it'?

Also, since ragams themselves have their inherent emotional base, there seems to be considerable leeway in how the listeners interpret the output from the performer.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 20 Aug 2006, 21:53

arunk, with respect to your doubt on the need for two threads for similar topics, vgvindan has explained that here http://rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=967-Thyagaraja-krit ... yrics.html

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Aug 2006, 22:04

OK...In my mind, this is how I see a musician's development very simplistically (just like the satges in a dancer's development): I have tried to give examples that make the case for me. Like VK says, the rAgam per se sets the mood and expectation, which the rendering of the lyrics then may or may not live upto.
Disclaimer: these are just my opinions...I am not a scholar, just a mere listener, and a kAnsEn at that!

Step one: A mere vocal exercise.

Step two: A mental exercise - understanding the lyrics correctly, pronouncing, splitting them appropriately, etc.

Step three: An emotional exercise - understanding the emotion being conveyed by the composer. It is in this stage that a perfect union between an artist and a performer will allow the musician to convey to the listeners what he/she is feeling. An example: when Smt. MSS renders kalkI's mAlai pozhudinilE, when she gets to 'nAlu puram nOkki, nADi nAn, yAr ingu vandadenrEn?' - nAlu puram - I get the idea that she is indeed looking around her (without her moving her head or even opening her eyes), and when she sings nADi, I get to experience the collective hesitation felt by generations of young girls in India when confronted with a strange man (who is unabashedly staring at them to boot!)

Step four: A spiritual exercise - using the composer's words and music as a means of the singer's personal prayer. Same thing - in the mIrA bhajan, when Smt MSS sings 'AvO prItam sundar nirupam' I actually feel her intense entreaty to krishNa to appear before her.

The last 2 steps for me involve people who can sing/play with bhAvam. Just like abhinaya in dance is not emotion, but rather, the communication of emotion, so too is performing with bhavam, the ability to convey the bhAvam.

Ravi

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Aug 2006, 22:08

vk,

I interpret bhAvA as such: The words with their meanings has a mood, and so singing with bhAva would ensure that mood must come through in a way perceptible to most listeners. Now one can presume that the composer would have composed the meTTu in such a way that the mood is inherently there. True but there is room for interpretation (mostly in gamakas) which if correctly used can enhance that mood (good), or if not incorrectly interpreted/executed can loose it (bad).

To give an example from my own experience, when i was learning brOva bhAramA, my teacher told me that i was taking one of the sangati's in the pallavi "too strong" and that the mood of words "is it a burden to protect me?" was spoilt even though i was singing the in sruthi and also "in rAga" (i actually was focused too hard to get it right as that sangati was a bear (:-)). My gamakas were off. I knew exactly what my teacher meant, as the words particularly through bahudAri, should come through with reverence, deference, with a hint of pleading all of which are just my interpretation - but which i do sense when i hear professionals render it (although not sure i am using the right words). But you dont do the gamaka right and it doesnt come though and what would seem like a tiny diffference seems to make a big difference in bhAvA. Hence to me, bhAvA seems like subtle and highy refined thing.

PS: I have such a long way to go to get to bhAvA and such perhaps - first i need to get singing without sruthi lapses right (;-).

Arun

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 20 Aug 2006, 22:09

Chembai, forgive the digression, but:
Communication of emotion through facial expression is now being used by security officials in all airports to screen for potential terrorists: See the WSJ of Thursday, August 17th for details: It is a front page article with pictures to illustrate!

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 20 Aug 2006, 22:14

srkris - thanks. I do remember reading that. I guess I was confused a bit then, and now I still confused which is why i addressed it to you and vgvindan.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Aug 2006, 22:25

VK,
Yes, 'it is hard to explain but I will know it when I hear it' is valid. Then we explore it too, not when we are wrapped up in bhAva while listening, but later--as we are doing now. As you say, 'the listeners' interpretations' and also their impressions (responses) are part of bhAva. The back and forth responses between the artist and the audience is another aspect. In a way, the progression of a concert and its success lies in the bhAva that the presenter possesses, the way he/she is inspired by the composition and rAga AND the way the audience receive it...

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Aug 2006, 22:58

Ravi and arunk,

Interesting posts. Ravi, MSS is perfect as an example. I can hear now her 'nAlu puram nOkki' and it conveys the mood instantly! This is exactly what I mean when I say teachers can help tremendously in guiding their pupils. arunk says how he got it from his teacher in emoting 'brOva bhAramA?'. As the bhAvA side is taught more and more, besides comments like 'this little fellar is a pro when it comes to identifying rAgAs, is a wizard in tALa, grasps everything in no time at all' will include something like--'she is great in understanding the lyric, she is so good in pronounciation' and so on. Incidentally, why is it that folks rave about great abhinaya in dance of even a child and of adult artists when they do not seem to be particular about bhAva in music?

rajumds · Post by **rajumds** » 21 Aug 2006, 10:27

Another example of bhava is listening to Akilandeshwari in Dwijavanti by MS & SSI. When you listen to SSI you get the beauty of the raga and sahitya & power of SSI's singing. When you listen to MS your are in the sannidhi of Akilandeshwari & nothing else comes to your mind.

I am not sure I have conveyed correctly what i have in mind.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 21 Aug 2006, 11:02

Some one has raised a query as to what 'bhAva' is. It is not something that could be defined by words. It is an experience. Take for example purandara dAsa kRti 'kELano hari tALanO'. I have heard many people sing it, but there is one Mr Sarma whose rendering brings Saint purandara dAsa himself before our mind's eyes. I do not know who this person is; neither any CD nor tapes seem to be available - his songs are heard rarely. His rendering of any kRti is superb - the words seem to merge - in Tamil called 'izhaidal'.
Jesu Das sings 'naga mOmu gana lEni' in a gambhIra bhAva whereas what is required is 'kAruNya bhAva'. But he sings malayalam devotional songs with bhAva. Obviously understanding of the language and the mood of the kRtis does play a great role in bringing out the bhAva.
The rules of grammer applies to music also. This is what zrI tyAgaraja calls 'prAsa', 'anuprAsa', 'yati', 'visrama'. Without knowing where to make intonation, the communication is ineffective; it is like bland diet.
I request viewers to listen to hari kathA kAlakSepam of (Late) Brahma Shri TS Balakrishna Sastrigal singing Thyagaraja Kritis in 'Thyagaraja Ramayana' to know what bhAva is. I request viewers to listen to Swami Haridas singing 'viDamu sEyavE' - thyagaraja Kriti. I understand that singing bhajan is not same music concert. Yet, if one cannot get that kind of experience when kritis like 'mOkSamu galadA' are sung, then the very purpose is defeated. I request viewers to listen to Hari Om Saran singing 'yeh garv bharA mastak mErA'.

coolkarni · Post by **coolkarni** » 21 Aug 2006, 11:02

rajumds

MS MS MS.........
We all understand.

A good friend of mine Dr Ramanthan from Coimbatore is a Cancer specialist.
Says there are days he goes to bed with such a sense of failure -thinking that he will not be able to start the next day in that career.
But it is only Ms's music that puts him on his feet the next day morning

From the humblest to the mightiest ....
We all understand.....

kaumaaram · Post by **kaumaaram** » 21 Aug 2006, 12:45

The question now boils down to the way the krithis could be prounounced. The meaning should not get distorted; and as DRS points out, there appears to be some freedom for the musicians to extropolate a vowel to sound like a consonant; but nonetheless, the original meaning should be preserved.

Re: Learning: It is a supervening impossibility to learn all the languages. If a person knows 5 languages, he may not be an expert in all the five. Thus familiarity is different from knowledge. To the extent possible, we must understand the meanings and then render the song.

Kaumaaram

Vocalist · Post by **Vocalist** » 21 Aug 2006, 16:26

vgvindan, I just noticed the example of Yesudas? It's rare that any one composition is going to be sung in the way it is intended (or supposed) to be sung. No? I'm sure Yesudas knew the meaning of that krithi - it's requested often, like Alai Paayudhe (kAnadA - OVK), Harivaraasanam (madyamAvathi) etc.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 06 Sep 2006, 20:31

To day I shall bring out the manner in which one of the famous kRtismanavinAlakiJca - rAga naLinakAnti is rendered. The whole kRti is given below together with meanings -

P manavin(A)lakiJca rAdaTE
marmam(e)lla delpedanE manasA

A ghanuDaina zrI rAma candruni
karuN(A)ntaraGgamu delisina nA (manavi)

C karma kANDa mat(A)kRSTulai bhava
gahana cArulai gAsi jendaga
gani mAnav(A)vatAruDai
kanipiJcinADE naData tyAgarAju (manavi)

Gist
O My Mind! Won't You listen to my appeal? I know the secret of the grace zrI rAma candra; I shall reveal them.
Looking at people suffering as wanderers in the forest of Worldly existence by being drawn towards the set of beliefs as contained in the portion of ritulistic actions of vEdas, the Lord embodied as a human being and exemplified the right conduct.

Word-by-word Meaning

P O My Mind (manasA)! Won't You (rAdaTE) listen (AlakiJca) to my appeal (manavini) (manavinAlakiJca)? I shall reveal (delpedanE) all (ella) the secrets (marmamu) (marmamella).

A O My Mind! Won't You listen to my (nA) appeal who -
knows (delisina) the secret (antaraGgamu) (literally essential nature) of the grace (karuNa) (karuNAntaraGgamu) of the great (ghanuDaina) zrI rAma candra (candruni)?
I shall reveal all the secrets.

C Looking at (gani) people suffering (gAsi jendaga) by becoming wanderers (cArulai) in the forest (gahana) of Worldly existence (bhava) because of
being drawn (AkRSTulai) towards the set of beliefs (mata) (matAKRSTulai) as contained in the portion (kANDa) of ritulistic actions (karma) of vEdas,
the Lord having embodied (avatAruDai) as a human being (mAnava) (mAnavAvatAruDai) exemplified (kanipiJcinADE) the right conduct (naData); therefore,
O My Mind! Won't You listen to the appeal of this tyAgarAja (tyAgarAju)? I shall reveal all the secrets.

There are three errors in rendering by musicians -
(1) In the pallavi, it is rendered as manavyAlakiJca. The actual telugu word is 'manavi'; when you join it with another word it becomes 'manavini' like in tamizh 'vENDukOL' 'vENDukOLai'. Therefore, the correct usage is manavini AlakiJca manavinAlakiJca.
(2) In the anupallavi instead of the word delisina it is rendered as delpina. This word delpina is a corruption. The correct word in the context is 'delisina'.
(3) In the caraNa some body renders as mata kRSTulai and others as matA kRSTulai; as may be seen from the kRti, the correct words are mata+AkRSTulai. Either it should be rendered as a single word matAkRSTulai without space or as mata and AkRSTulai.
In this regard, I invite the attention of the viewers to the wordings of the sage of kAJci as brought out in the first article.
The saving grace is that, in the caraNa the words 'mAnava avatAruDai' is correctly split and sung by one of the musicians.
I would request the viewers to ponder.

May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

Books referenced are -
CR - The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja by Shri C Ramanujachariar
ATK - Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams by Shri KV Srinivas Iyengar (Telugu)
TKG - Compositions of Tyagaraja by Shri TK Govinda Rao
TSV/AKG - Sadguru Shri Thyagaraja Swamy Keerthanaigal (Tamil) by Shri TS Vasudevan and Shri AK Gopalan

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 07 Sep 2006, 20:42

Today I shall discuss about the rendering of the famous kRti ADa mODi galadA - rAga cArukEzi. I am giving hereunder the complete kRti and the meanings -

P ADa mODi galadA rAm(a)yya mATa(lADa)

A tODu nIDa nIvE(y)anucunu bhakti
gUDina pAdamu baTTina nAtO mATa(lADa)

C caduvul(a)nni delisi zaMkar(A)MzuDai
sadayuD(A)zuga saMbhavuDu mrokka
kadalu tammuni balka jEsitivi gAkanu
tyAgarAju(y)ADina mATa(lADa)

Gist
O Merciful Lord rAmayya! Is it justified to be capricious in talking to me? I have held Your Feet with devotion considering You alone to be my constant companion. I am aware that when erudite AJjanEya - born of Wind God as an aspect of Lord ziva, saluted You (and enquired about You), You asked lakSmaNa to convey the details to him. Yet, is it justified to be capricious in talking to me even when I speak to You?

Word-by-word Meaning

P O Lord (ayya) rAma (rAmayya)! Is it justified (galadA) to be capricious (mODi) in talking (mATalu Ada) (mATalADa) to me?

A O Lord rAma! Is it justified to be capricious in talking (mATalADa) to me (nAtO) who -
considering You alone (nIvE) to be (anucunu) (nIvEyanucunu) my constant companion (tODu nIDa) (like a shadow),
has held (baTTina) Your Feet (pAdamu) together with (gUDina) devotion (bhakti)?

C O Merciful Lord (sadayuDa)! When AJjanEya - born (saMbhavuDu) of Wind God (Azuga) (literally quick moving) (sadayuDAzuga) as an aspect (aMzuDai) of Lord ziva (zaMkara) (zaMkarAMzuDai) and also being erudite (caduvulu anni delisi) (literally one who has mastered all) (caduvulanni), saluted (mrokka) You (and enquired about You),
You asked (jEsitivi) (literally do) lakSmaNa - your younger brother (tammuni) to convey (balka) the details (kadalu) (literally stories) to him;
however (gAkanu), is it justified to be capricious in talking (mATalADa) to this tyAgarAja (tyAgarAju) even if he talks (ADina) (tyAgarAjuyADina) to You?

The word in question is galadA in the pallavi. galadA - this is how it is given in the books of CR and ATK. However, in the books of TKG and TSV/AKG, this is given as galadE. It is being rendered as 'galadE' by many musicians.
The whole kRti is addressed to the Lord ie in second person. Please see the anupallavi words -tOdu nIDa nIvEyanucunu, considering You to be my constant companion and the caraNa words tammuni balka jEsitivi - You asked Your younger brother to convey details. Therefore, the pallavi word mODi galadA is a direct pleading with the Lord - is it justified?
The word galadE is not in second person that itself is a pointer that it is in error. There is a possibility that this word could be galaDE meaning Lord zrI rAma is annoyed or angry - again this is in third person. Therefore, in my humble opinion, rendering the pallavi as 'galadE' is not correct.
It is also worth mentioning that in the book of TKG, an alternative to the caraNa words - tyAgarAju ADina mATa - is given as 'tyAgarAjEpATi mATa' . The wording 'tyAgrAjEpATi mATa' is a very corrupted form of telugu and this seems to be an innovation.
I request the views to ponder
May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

Books referenced are -
CR - The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja by Shri C Ramanujachariar
ATK - Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams by Shri KV Srinivas Iyengar (Telugu)
TKG - Compositions of Tyagaraja by Shri TK Govinda Rao
TSV/AKG - Sadguru Shri Thyagaraja Swamy Keerthanaigal (Tamil) by Shri TS Vasudevan and Shri AK Gopalan

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 12 Sep 2006, 11:01

rAma nannu brOva-harikAmbhOji

I am giving hereunder the subject kRti in full along with meanings -

P rAma nannu brOva rAv(E)makO lOk(A)bhi(rAma)

A cImalO brahmalO ziva kEzav(A)dulalO
prEma mIra melagucuNDE birudu vahiJcina sItA(rAma)

C meppulakai kanna tAvun(a)ppu baDaga virra vIgi
tappu panulu lEka(y)uNDE tyAgarAja vinuta sItA(rAma)

Gist
O Lord rAma! O Delighter of the World! O Lord sItA rAma praised by this tyAgarAja!
You carry the appellation of moving about, lovingly, in the ants as also in the Trinity - brahmA, ziva and viSNu - and others!
I am not (monetarily) indebted to anyone for the sake of fame; I am not conceited; I am not involving in wrong doings. Therefore, why You are not coming to protect me?

Word-by-word Meaning

P O Lord rAma! For what reason (EmakO) You are not coming (rAvu) (rAvEmakO) to protect (brOva) me? O Delighter (abhirAma) of the World (lOka) (lOkAbhi)!

A O Lord sItA rAma who carries (vahiJcina) the appellation (birudu) of moving about (melagucuNDE) with much (mIra) love (prEma)
in the ants (cImalO) as also in the Trinity - brahmA (brahmalO), ziva and viSNu (kEzava) - and others (AdulalO) (kEzavAdulalO)!
for what reason You are not coming to protect me? O Delighter of the World!

C O Lord sItA rAma praised (vinuta) by this tyAgarAja who remains (uNDE)-
without becoming indebted (appu baDaga) to any and everyone (kanna tAvuna) (literally everywhere) (tAvunappu) for the sake of fame (meppulakai) and
without (lEka) (lEkayuNDE) involving in any wrong (tappu) doings (panulu) being conceited (virra vIgi)!
for what reason You are not coming to protect me? O Delighter of the World!

Two points I have observed in rendering of the Kriti - The first is the pallavi -The words rAma nannu brOva rAvEmakO is rendered repeatedly as rAma nannu brOvarA and then vEmakO is added later. The thrust of the pallavi is O Lord rAma! Why are not coming to protect me. However, from the rendering, the listener is made to understand that zrI tyAgarAja is asking the Lord O Lord rAma! Please protect me. Even at the end, the kRti is ended as rAma nannu brOvarA. How far musicians can liberty with the sahitya?
The second point is about the word virra vIgi which is rendered as vIra vIgi; the word virra is different from vIra.

I request viewers to ponder.

May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

Books referenced are -
CR - The Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja by Shri C Ramanujachariar
ATK - Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams by Shri KV Srinivas Iyengar (Telugu)
TKG - Compositions of Tyagaraja by Shri TK Govinda Rao
TSV/AKG - Sadguru Shri Thyagaraja Swamy Keerthanaigal (Tamil) by Shri TS Vasudevan and Shri AK Gopalan

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 12 Sep 2006, 22:13

V govindan,
Thank you for posting the proper way the kriti "rAma nannu brOva" should be rendered.
Do we have any recording of artist(s) who has rendered this way (BMK, Nedunuri..)?

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 13 Sep 2006, 00:24

I have heard eminent musicians rendering the kriti only the wrong way. The implication of your query is clear - that no artist is rendering in the manner it should be; therefore, that - the wrong way - should be the correct way of rendering. Pardon me, if I got you wrongly.
I am reminded of a joke. During Britishers' time, there was a bridge in Triplicane (may be it is there now also) called 'Hamilton Bridge'. The locals could not pronounce the English word properly. So over a period the name got morphed as 'Ambatta Varaavadi'. So people forgot all about 'Hamilton Bridge'. Somebody thought 'ambattan' was very vulgar and converted it into English as 'Barber's Bridge'. So when India became Independent, the name known to the people was 'Barber's Bridge'.
I hope You got the connection.
V Govindan

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 13 Sep 2006, 20:58

vgvindan wrote:rAma nannu brOva-harikAmbhOji

Two points I have observed in rendering of the Kriti -
The first is the pallavi - The words rAma nannu brOva rAvEmakO is rendered repeatedly as rAma nannu brOvarA and then vEmakO is added later. The thrust of the pallavi is O Lord rAma! Why are not coming to protect me. However, from the rendering, the listener is made to understand that zrI tyAgarAja is asking the Lord O Lord rAma! Please protect me. Even at the end, the kRti is ended as rAma nannu brOvarA. How far musicians can liberty with the sahitya?
The second point is about the word virra vIgi which is rendered as vIra vIgi; the word virra is different from vIra.

I request viewers to ponder.

May Saint Thyagaraja Bless us all
V Govindan

Dear Shri Govindan

Thanks for pointing this out. I disovered to my chagrin that I have been singing it incorrectly all these years! But you are right. The lyrics do not make sense otherwise but I have been lazy. Two counterpoints (though you are entirely correct): first, perhaps by endless repetition of the wrong way, the current mode of singing the kriti makes it quite hard to stop at "brOva" when ending the pallavi. I can only wonder at how Tyagaraja himself must have sung it. Second, I have never seen or heard the charanam word "virra vIgi" that you point out.

In this context, if memory serves someone recently posted an MDR rendering of this kriti. How does he handle these two points?

Thanks again
thenpaanan

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 13 Sep 2006, 21:22

vgovindan,

thanks for your posts - very informative. But i do have a (possibly silly) counter-point. I can believe that this is another case where the musicians may have taken liberties to expand their renditions. However i am not sure it spoils the spirit of the krithi. Let us say i am in trouble, desparate and helpless in a real-world situation and i see someone who could help me and i plead to that someone, "please help me! please help me! I am really in trouble, you have helped so many other people - why dont you come and help me?". Are the first 2 "please help me"s really that much at odds with the last sentence?

I view the sangatis of "rAma nannu brovavA" similar to these. To me the gist of the krithi seems that Tyagaraja asking/pleading Rama to protect him - and this is in line with that. You are of course adopting a much stricter and literal interpretation. But IMVHO, carnatic music lyrics is not prose to be read out, or is unlike English poetry reading with minimalistic to zero personal interpretation. I draw this comparison only to indicate such kind of 'extrapolation' of the gist/mood portrayed by the lyrics can and probably should be allowed if used effectively with music. Of course this isnt a license for uninhibited, unfettered interpretation. I also know and can understand people who scorn at any "extraneous" interpretation beyond what they believe the composer already laid out.

Arun

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 13 Sep 2006, 22:01

thenpaanan wrote:I have never seen or heard the charanam word "virra vIgi" that you point out. thenpaanan

I request you to refer to the caraNa of the Kriti given in my post. The word virra vIgi is given in all the books.
I do not have a recording of the Kriti rendered by MDR.
V Govindan

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 14 Sep 2006, 01:12

Sri Govindan

I beg your pardon. I looked up TSParthasarathy and confirmed that you are absolutely right. It is indeed "virra vIgi" in that book as well.

My apologies,
thenpaanan

meena · Post by **meena** » 14 Sep 2006, 12:35

thenpaanan wrote:

In this context, if memory serves someone recently posted an MDR rendering of this kriti. How does he handle these two points?

can u pl. direct me to the link or the thread.
acc. to my records, sree mdr has not rendered rAma nannu brOva in harikAmbhOji, u could have mistaken for nannu brOva in abhOgi .

hsuvarna · Post by **hsuvarna** » 15 Sep 2006, 00:57

MSS sings ----rama nannu brovara vemako...
viRra Vigi is absolutely right as pointed by sri Govindan.

But I have never heard the word "vemako" or "ravemako" which gives the meaning
"why you are not coming". Perhaps the olden days telugu.

Also, I would prefer to interpret
this song from the point of vedukolu (request) rather than ninda (accusing). If I have not done any wrongs being an arrogant, please protect me. Not the other way, by taking the If out.

hariKambhoji seems to have kirtanas having both ninda and vedukolu. karnatik.com seems has beautiful way of finding all harikambhoji's, lyrics etc. Great site.

cani tODi tEvE - T
dinamaNi vamsha - T
enduku nirdaya evarunnaaruraa - T
enta raani - T
harikaambhOdi paaDi - SNB
kamala pada - AC
karaanguLina - HB
laali laaliyani - T
murugaa tirumaal - TS
neeyE gati en taayE - KI
nEnendu vEtukuduraa - also karnaaTaka behaag - T
oka maaTa - T
paripaalayamaam - RS
raama naamoraalincaraa - WVB
raama nannu brOvaraa - T
raaraa phaNishayana - T
saakEta nagara naatha - MSR
shree vishvEshwara - HB
unDedi raamuDu
unDenRu uRudi - PS
vallagaadaanaka (also shankaraabharaNam) - T
vinataa suta vaahanuDai - T

Btw, If any one wants to see MS singing it in tiruvayyuru tyagaraja festival, please see
the google vedio link

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4502&hl=en

I picked it from sangitapriya.org. The vediographer tool it from close. We can see MSS from close singing it.

hsuvarna · Post by **hsuvarna** » 15 Sep 2006, 01:03

Also the most common word in tyagaraja swamy's kirtanas "broche" "brova" does not convey the exact meaning using the english word 'protect'. this english word is not enough.
I have not looked in any dictionaries or translation books. But from the use of this word in many books, films, harikathaas, my personal understanding is that it has the flavours of show-mercy,
protect-from-Bad-people, cure-my-ailment, solve-my-personal-problem-involving-(money/marriage/children) and more. May be 'take care of me' is closer than 'protect'.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 15 Sep 2006, 09:57

hsuvarna wrote:But I have never heard the word "vemako" or "ravemako" which gives the meaning
"why you are not coming". Perhaps the olden days telugu.

I request you to refer to my post giving word-by-word Meaning; vEmakO is not a word - it is rAvu+EmakO = rAvEmakO. Though the word EmakO is not found in that form in the Telugu Dictionary, it generally translates to why; EmakO - why : rAvu - wouldn't You come.

V Govindan

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 15 Sep 2006, 10:23

hsuvarna wrote:Also the most common word in tyagaraja swamy's kirtanas "broche" "brova" does not convey the exact meaning using the english word 'protect'. this english word is not enough.

You are very right. This word is the colloquival form of Telugu word prOcu to mean nourish, support, maintain, protect, save etc.
This is not the single instance of word being transformed. Telugu has the advantage (or disadvantage?) of softening of hard consonants into soft - k as g; c as j; t as d; and p as b : this is so in order to enable smooth flow of language.
Such transformation is permissible only when a word beginning with a hard consonant is precdeded by a word ending with a soft consonant. But the actual usage as found in the present versions of Thyagaraja Kritis are innumerous without regard even for change in their meanings.
For example, the word koDugu - meaning son occurring in the Pancha Ratna kriti duDuku gala, if changed to goDugu - will mean umbrella. The vice versa is also true - the word goDugu - meaning umbrella appears in the Bhairavi kriti -upacAramulu cEkonavayya - if this is rendered as koDugu - meaning son, it will be very absurd.
This is one of the most important reasons that I undertook the task of word-by-word Meanings of the Kritis so that we could put a stop to any further regression. I can only pray to Saint Thyagaraja that my ambition would be fulfilled.
V Govindan

hsuvarna · Post by **hsuvarna** » 16 Sep 2006, 04:08

=================
This is not the single instance of word being transformed. Telugu has the advantage (or disadvantage?) of softening of hard consonants into soft - k as g; c as j; t as d; and p as b : this is so in order to enable smooth flow of language.
====================
very right. kanugontini, ..nigama shirordhamu galgina...(sogasuga..) (it is actually kanukkontini k->g)

telugu has k,c,t,ta,pa (parushamulu sharp-sound) --> g,j,d,da, ba(saralamulu- smooth sound)

Usually the nouns are spared. AFAIK, koduGu is not there. But I am not fully sure. Telugu has changed a lot from last 50 years it self.

I hail all your efforts to bring the right lyrics/words. I was singing 'rama nnanu brovara prematho lokabhirama" all these days though.

vgvindan · Post by **vgvindan** » 16 Sep 2006, 12:42

hsuvarna wrote:AFAIK, koduGu is not there.

You are right. The correct word is koDuku.
Thanks
V Govindan