An article on MDR in today's Express

prashant · Post by **prashant** » 04 Jun 2009, 11:52

vkv43034 wrote:The unfortunate part was he offered to let me record his entire repertoire & I did not have a tape recorder at that trime of my life here!.....vkv

Wow - now that would have been an amazing treasure!!!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jun 2009, 12:31

Rama set the precedence, did't he, by crossing the ocean while coming back from Lanka ( on a pushpaka vimAnam ). Why is it then sinful for SSI to travel overseas to 'conquer' other lands? May be because the plane is made of the wrong material

What is the vedic/agamic/smriti/other sastric source, if any,/ for such beliefs?

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 04 Jun 2009, 16:13

In the olden days crossing the ocean meant several days of voyage by ship. (Except perhaps in the case of Sri Lanka which could have been covered in a day )

This put severe restrictions on people who were strict about their daily ablutions / bathing and associated rules for snana/paana/japam etc and their trikaala sandhya vandanam, their ability to eat freshly made vegetarian food, and so on. So it was not practical to be on a ship for several days.

I agree with VK, once air travel became possible the rules should have been revised

May be a designated vegetarian area on board Air India flights (similar to no-smoking zones) would have allowed the more orthodox folks to travel to far off lands?

cienu · Post by **cienu** » 04 Jun 2009, 16:47

Yes, sridhar_rang is right.

And Lanka (Ceylon) was considered India's backyard and not a foreign nation.
I recollect that R K Venkatarama Shastry , violin vidwan and grandfather of R K Shriram Kumar, accompanied MS to Jaffna by Rameswaram Boat Mail and from Dhanushkodi to Talaimannar by steamer and from there again by rail/ road to Jaffna.
But he excused himself from the tour of Edinburgh (UK) in 1963 (by air) for precisely the reasons Sridhar has stated above. Rapid transition across various time zones was a strict no no !

MaheshS · Post by **MaheshS** » 04 Jun 2009, 17:53

vasanthakokilam wrote:Rama set the precedence, did't he, by crossing the ocean while coming back from Lanka ( on a pushpaka vimAnam ).

But Lord Rama was a Kshatriya and they have different set of rules don't they?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jun 2009, 19:08

There is nothing in the veda regarding crossing the ocean. It is an injunction in the dharma shastra (smriti). When my father was asked to accept a diplomatic position in Burma my grandmother was strictly against but he still went where I grew up in early days (like our Raghu sir). When we returned during the war we were outlawed by the brahmin community and our family had to undergo an elaborate 'praayashitta' to be alllowed back into the fold

Rama did expiate the ocean-crossing by praying to Lord Siva at Rameshvaram!
The restrictions don't apply to vaishyas (who had to travel on business) and shudras.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jun 2009, 20:21

So, what was the reason with Madurai Somu?

Cienu,
Rapid transition across various time zones --yes, even there, they foresaw the zombie state of being jet-lagged, I suppose! The fruits of doing something against the natural ways of doing things--to travel tearing across the globe in such speed in this case to them would have meant--one does not try to do things like the gods!

Then again, in ancient days, when every state in India seemed like a different country, when food cooked in those regions seemed as foreign, pilgrims to kASi and Gaya subsisted on dairy and fruits which were available locally and (like the astronauts!) with dried mix of cereal which they carried with them in a bundle (called sattu mAvu) nutritious granola mix!

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 04 Jun 2009, 20:31

arasi wrote:So, what was the reason with Madurai Somu?

Same as the others! vkv

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jun 2009, 21:12

By the by the restrictions did not apply to Gods! Remember Lord Subramanya went around the world to get the Mango!
Rama was human and not a God (according to vAlmiki) whence the restriction did apply to him!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 04 Jun 2009, 21:14

arasi
The brahmin values had percolated to the nonbrahmins too!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jun 2009, 21:50

Sigh...

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 04 Jun 2009, 21:54

Then again, in ancient days, when every state in India seemed like a different country, when food cooked in those regions seemed as foreign, pilgrims to kASi and Gaya subsisted on dairy and fruits which were available locally and (like the astronauts!) with dried mix of cereal which they carried with them in a bundle (called sattu mAvu) nutritious granola mix!

Even now, I have seen people visiting US from India carrying some form of unperishable food to sustain in their short business visits. One person I know even starved for 3 days- was so happy when we invited and cooked a typical SI food for lunch.

Another scientific reasoning could be- One could contract diseases when visiting foreign land for which you have no immunity etc.. (not that one could not die of diseases in ones own place!)

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 04 Jun 2009, 22:34

Suji Ram wrote:Another scientific reasoning could be- One could contract diseases when visiting foreign land for which you have no immunity etc.. (not that one could not die of diseases in ones own place!)

Interesting idea, although I wonder what the disease(s) is/are that can be contracted onlly by eating alien foods, but not from drinking the water, breathing the air, and touching things in alien lands!!

I think most of the reason why people starve in these days is probably 'food neophobia' - essentially, the fear of and inability to eat foods one is not used to!

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 04 Jun 2009, 23:11

Oh Ravi, my statement about contracting disease was not connected to the food (in the previous paragraph)
Was just reasoning why crossing sea, land etc could have been considered dangerous!

cacm · Post by **cacm** » 05 Jun 2009, 00:10

Suji Ram wrote:
Then again, in ancient days, when every state in India seemed like a different country, when food cooked in those regions seemed as foreign, pilgrims to kASi and Gaya subsisted on dairy and fruits which were available locally and (like the astronauts!) with dried mix of cereal which they carried with them in a bundle (called sattu mAvu) nutritious granola mix!
Even now, I have seen people visiting US from India carrying some form of unperishable food to sustain in their short business visits. One person I know even starved for 3 days- was so happy when we invited and cooked a typical SI food for lunch.
Another scientific reasoning could be- One could contract diseases when visiting foreign land for which you have no immunity etc.. (not that one could not die of diseases in ones own place!)

Dear Suji ram,
Treat this as a semi serious attempt at being somewhat funny-questionable-: You have shattered the confidence of a 75 year old man who has been banking on the belief that there can be nothing in terms of germs or illnesses that an Indian has not developed anti-bodies or immunity to! vkv

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 05 Jun 2009, 00:13

...include prejudices too

Suji Ram · Post by **Suji Ram** » 05 Jun 2009, 00:34

In my childhood I dreaded going from Hyd to Madras, for I caught different illnesses in each of the visit. While I must be immune to all of it now, immunity from that "fear factor" is something that I have not gotten yet.

PS: I love chennai

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Jun 2009, 00:57

Suji, with those last words, you destroyed the construction of yet another mountain

Nice!

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 05 Jun 2009, 01:15

You also have the reverse case, i.e. NRIs who get so worried about making that India trip, so take all sorts of inoculations before going home. Boston brahmins, perhaps?

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 05 Jun 2009, 01:21

R-T, you are an old hand at 'mountain-able' molehills, huh?

Suji - sorry for misunderstanding your meaning! I guess it happened while I was contemplating my choices for lunch!

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 05 Jun 2009, 03:24

Here's an interesting site that throws some light on the 'seven seas' taboo:
http://historicalleys.blogspot.com/2009 ... taboo.html

The first thing to note here is the belief in Hindu mythology that the Ocean is a resting place for gods and they shall never be disturbed. So one may not venture out into the oceans and incur their wrath and thus face fierce demons & monsters. Both Manu Smriti and the Baudhayana Dharma Sutra specifically dissuaded Brahmins from sea travels, and the penalties and penances if one did so were very severe.
and
A Brahmin explained the taboo as follows - This because one cannot perform his daily ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“pujasÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢, the three time ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã‹Å“sandyavandansÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ because the sun and moon was "in the wrong place at the wrong time".

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 05 Jun 2009, 06:51

Suji, razing the M-swhich were made out of M-s and making room for more M-s which will grow into M-s

R_T,
You do bring hillocks of information and music too, I must admit!

ragam-talam · Post by **ragam-talam** » 06 Jun 2009, 14:23

Thank you, Arasi. I do my bit here. Can't match great vaggeyakaras and poets like yourself, of course!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Jun 2009, 07:02

That 'great' brings to mind a mountain when describing molehills...!

sangeethamquest · Post by **sangeethamquest** » 07 Jun 2009, 08:44

Very nice article by Anil.

I think the greatest compliment that MDR could have received is KVN offering to give up his SK title to MDR if he was alive.

Also showed how great these musicians were (Both MDR and KVN......KVN for offering to give up ........about MDR ......I don't think you can use a language to describe his music you just have to feel it ........but I think Anil did an excellent job).

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 07 Jun 2009, 09:29

KVN also used to sing MDR's sAgara sayana vibhO a lot.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Nov 2010, 20:57

[quote="cmlover"]

Rama did expiate the ocean-crossing by praying to Lord Siva at Rameshvaram!

quote]

Not quite!

Rama committed the sin of brahmahathi for having killed Ravana, a brahmin by virtue of his father being a rishi.

Rama washed off that sin by praying to Lord Siva at Rameswaram.

Deekshithar in his kriti "Ramanatham Bhajeham" refers to this by describing Siva as "hatyadi papaharam".

rasikas.org

An article on MDR in today's Express

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