Etymology for "sankIrna"

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 22 Aug 2006, 02:52

Does someone know of an etymology for the word "sankIrna" as in sankirna gati...? What is its meaning? Also for khanda and misra. When a distinct word pancha is available, why khanda? Similarly for sapta vs misra and nava vs sankIrna.

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 22 Aug 2006, 04:08

One of the meanings (most common one , AFAIK) of sankIrNa is complex, complicated etc.

I have no idea why the names have been handed over like this over the generations. However, originally there
was no 7 tALa * 5 jAti system. Each of the suLAdi sapta tALa had only a fixed jAti ( eg: dhruva tALa meant
chaturashra dhruva, and tripuTa meant trishra tripuTa).

I think extending the 5 jAtis to 7 tALas is post Purandara dAsa development.

-Ramakriya

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Aug 2006, 20:11

ramakriya wrote:However, originally there was no 7 tALa * 5 jAti system. Each of the suLAdi sapta tALa had only a fixed jAti ( eg: dhruva tALa meant
chaturashra dhruva, and tripuTa meant trishra tripuTa).

I think extending the 5 jAtis to 7 tALas is post Purandara dAsa development.

-Ramakriya

The 5 jAtis to the 7 tALas was a contribution of purandaradAsa only and not a development after his time. He systematized the tALas and clasiified the 7*5 jAtis. Of course the 5 in which he set alankAras came to be the default ones for each type as they are the ones taught and sung most often.

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Aug 2006, 20:15

My thoughts on the names. tryaSra (triSra/ tiSra) and caturaSra need no explanation. khaNDa because it is tryaSra and half of caturaSra(khaNDa) joined. miSra because it is a conjoining (miSra) of tryaSra and caturaSra. And sankIrNa because it is a complex mix of khaNDa( which itself is a combination) and caturaSra.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 22 Aug 2006, 20:38

drs,

so the word khanDa implies/hints-at "joining"? And the word miSra implies/hints-at "conjoining"? Can you please clarify? maybe with examples of usage of these words in other contexts with their meanings (if appplicable)

Thanks
Arun

drshrikaanth · Post by **drshrikaanth** » 22 Aug 2006, 20:54

arunk wrote:drs,

so the word khanDa implies/hints-at "joining"? And the word miSra implies/hints-at "conjoining"? Can you please clarify? maybe with examples of usage of these words in other contexts with their meanings (if appplicable)

Thanks
Arun

Apologies if my words were ambiguous/nebulous.
I had no intentions of implying different meanings for "joining" and "conjoining". khaNDa does not mean nor does it hint at "joining". khaNDa means a piece or fragment/part of the whole. miSra means mixture. It does not beg for an example as that is simply what it means.

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 22 Aug 2006, 21:42

no apologies necessary drs. I had no clue as to what those words meant and so i was trying to figure out your reasoning.

> khaNDa means a piece or fragment/part of the whole. miSra means mixture
this answers my question. Thanks!

Arun

ramakriya · Post by **ramakriya** » 22 Aug 2006, 21:53

drshrikaanth wrote:
ramakriya wrote:However, originally there was no 7 tALa * 5 jAti system. Each of the suLAdi sapta tALa had only a fixed jAti ( eg: dhruva tALa meant
chaturashra dhruva, and tripuTa meant trishra tripuTa).

I think extending the 5 jAtis to 7 tALas is post Purandara dAsa development.

-Ramakriya
The 5 jAtis to the 7 tALas was a contribution of purandaradAsa only and not a development after his time. He systematized the tALas and clasiified the 7*5 jAtis. Of course the 5 in which he set alankAras came to be the default ones for each type as they are the ones taught and sung most often.

I remember reading something to this effect in an article by Prof R Satyanarayana - Will try to get hold of that. There is always a chance that my memory is failing

-Ramakriya

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 23 Aug 2006, 01:45

As far as my current understanding goes these are the literal meanings:

khaNDa - fragmented/broken (DRS interprets this as a 3 + half of 4, so broken

)
misra - blended/combined/mixed
saMkIrNa - mingled/put together/spread out

It would be interesting to know why these names are used instead of the numbers which they represent, and why only for these three is this kind of name used, the other two having their normal names tisra and chatusra? Okay so misra makes sense... it is a combination of tisra and chatusra. How to link the other two?

vasya10 · Post by **vasya10** » 06 Feb 2007, 05:23

isnt it a coincidence that by katayapadi scheme, khaNDa is 5 (kha =2 + Da=3 implies 2+3=5)... ? So does miSra -- ma = 5 + ra = 2 (5+2) = 7 ?

but of course, it doesnt work for sankirNa (which would be 7+1+[0 or 9], depending on the scheme).

Christian Kenit Ram · Post by **Christian Kenit Ram** » 19 Jul 2018, 23:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq7ev5V_9xE

Sashikira gives a different twist to Khanda , while still maintaining the meaning of fragmentation .

Christian Kenit Ram · Post by **Christian Kenit Ram** » 20 Jul 2018, 15:51

Cross-posting from :

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=15980&start=150#p198080

" Strictly speaking, there are only two basic jatis - chaturashra (4) and tishra (3). ....

Mishra (mixture of the two fundamentals) = 4+3.
Khanda (split) = 4+3+3 / 2
Sankeerna (integration) = 4+5 "

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Etymology for "sankIrna"

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