Carnatic Music Idols (2011)- JAYA TV Programme

hamsadhwani · Post by **hamsadhwani** » 15 Feb 2011, 21:05

mahavishnu wrote:Hamsadhwani, I think Rasika911 meant the episode for the 15th. It is usually up by around 10:30am IST like clockwork.

Oops sorry.... my bad!

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 15 Feb 2011, 21:10

There was some delay in uploading. It is (Up to 15-02-2011) now available in my channel at http://www.youtube.com/user/vkailasam

venkatakailasam

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 15 Feb 2011, 23:43

thank you, Sri Kailasam. It was worth the wait!

SPOILER ALERTS (for those of you who have not watched the clips).

Very interesting episode No.15. A lot has happened in this round. Vishnu qualifying seemed like a no-brainer. He had a very strong performance in the last round. I was surprised that the judges were not unanimous is promoting Ganesh Karthik to the finals. I thought he was quite good; his graha bedam to Surya was very clever. His voicing could use more power, although his brighas seem unambiguous and fluent.

Nandini and Apoorva both sounded just ok. But, given the level of the contest so far, I have my doubts about them qualifying for the next round. I think the instructions to Nandini were not very clear (eduppu, koraippu and kanakku), so she might have been confused. I just learned that Apoorva is Anahita's sister and also a disciple of Ravikiran.

Any Chennaivasis going to the finals on the 20th?

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 16 Feb 2011, 01:06

Thank you Sri Kailasam. I couldn't focus on any work until I watched the uploads.
I was surprised Kalpalathika was sent to the finals. she was nowhere near Vishnu or Ganesh Karthik. her Nattakurinji was good but her singing could be more openthroated...
Also Ganesh Karthik was worth better than 4 out of 6. He caught onto Surya in a second. It's not a common raga either. I havent heard it much except from TVS occasionally.
nothing to say about Vishnu - he stands a very good chance...

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 16 Feb 2011, 01:13

I think like they should take less time showing the deliberations on each. I want to see people singing, and listening to all 6 judges for each contestant drags a little. Many of the judges repeat what they said to the contestants the first time around. Am i the only one?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Feb 2011, 01:44

PVS: I agree. Kalpalathika was not in the same league as the other two. The competition level is indeed quite high. It would be hard to pick the top 6 right now!

mri_fan: Yes, the production quality is still very amateur. There is a certain crispness that is missing in the way the deliberation of the judges is filmed. However, I like the detailed analysis of each contestant. The sets also seem very low-quality, occupying the lion's share of the camera's view, detracting from the perceived quality of the production. Probably the latter is just a budget issue.

BTW, GV mentioned that Vishnu sang a Latangi. Was this edited out before it was aired? It was also weird that the judges jumped to Kalyani in the middle of Kalpalathika's nattakurinji. One can only infer that we are only seeing a part of the performance.

suma · Post by **suma** » 16 Feb 2011, 02:47

I havent seen today's upload, will watch in the evening. So, who are the six finalists that you'll are talking about. From the conversations in this thread looks like Vishnu, Ganesh Karthik, Kalpalathika are in. Who are the other 3?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Feb 2011, 03:26

Suma: not announced yet. There are at least 10 more contestants to go in the semi-finals. The abovementioned three are in already.

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 16 Feb 2011, 04:38

I wish I could see/hear Vishnu's Lathangi. why dont they edit out the compere's vala vala and show more of the contestants? the program can only improve!! I'm wondering if Raghavendra and Maha.Ganesh are going to be in the final. Its going to be a great show when they match up to Vishnu...

smala · Post by **smala** » 16 Feb 2011, 06:10

The bleeding heart that I am, I want both Vishnu and Ganesh-Karthik to win the "idol" pattam, so far.

As I noted my hunch earlier, these youngsters are stellar and it would be terrible to discourage them with "wins" and "losses" or affect their aspiring confidence in anyway - I sincerely hope Jaya TV shakes off this "idol" imitation of the Western prototype and injects an Indianness, similar to Kerala's Ragaratna - in this case, The Ragaratnams. Anybody here with influence over or connections with JayaTV ? - please communicate with them !

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Feb 2011, 06:24

PVS: I think they should sell the outtakes and the edited stuff. I would pay top dollar for it! And throw in the bloopers as a bonus in the blu-ray release. The proceeds from the sales can go to paying a proper anchor for next year's search.
S-P: I agree that there should be multiple winners.

In the end, what will make a difference is how much concert experience the contestants have already had (or their gurus have exposed them to). Most of the questions seem to be geared towards thinking on the spot and solving these situated problems.

suma · Post by **suma** » 16 Feb 2011, 06:25

Just saw the episode and I think Nandini was very good. Ofcourse, Vishnu gets the 1st place so far based on the semi finals telecasted so far, but right after him it would be Nandini. The questions she faced were not easy and finally in the end she did what they wanted. I think Raghavendra, Vishnu and Nandini are top brass so far although we have not heard Raghavendra in the semi final round.

smala · Post by **smala** » 16 Feb 2011, 06:36

Does anyone know who the gurus are for Vishnu and Ganesh-Karthik ?

binmux · Post by **binmux** » 16 Feb 2011, 06:43

As much talented as they are, Ganesh, Kumaresh and Sowmya need to learn how to be humble and avoid sarcastic comments, from NSG.
NSG is so inclusive and kind even when he suggests something.

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 16 Feb 2011, 07:39

@ binmux. very true. I think the 'honour' should be bestowed to the other two judges too, especially Shashikiran. The sarcasm is too scathing sometimes.
NSG is very polite and of exemplary behaviour. Isn't that what carnatic music is purported to transform the practitioners into?

Sundara Rajan · Post by **Sundara Rajan** » 16 Feb 2011, 08:16

Kuamaresh and Ganesh should stop meddling when the candidate is responding to questions from senior artist Santhanagopalan and confuse the candidate. I guess they just try to show off ! Jaya TV should get more mature judges as Santhanogopalan instead of the "half-baked" ones.

knarayana · Post by **knarayana** » 16 Feb 2011, 10:01

mahavishnu wrote:PVS: I think they should sell the outtakes and the edited stuff. I would pay top dollar for it! And throw in the bloopers as a bonus in the blu-ray release. The proceeds from the sales can go to paying a proper anchor for next year's search.
S-P: I agree that there should be multiple winners.

In the end, what will make a difference is how much concert experience the contestants have already had (or their gurus have exposed them to). Most of the questions seem to be geared towards thinking on the spot and solving these situated problems.

Mahavishnu,

Concur with your view on the previous post that Nandhini's was a okay performance today - her performance in the previous round was excellent, so I had a high expectation this time, it was a disappointment in that sense. However, as you reflected, I too think this whole program is being edited to a great extent before telecast, so we would never know how a contestant performed in the whole time he/she was on the stage. Looking at this editing stuff and also that the telecast time is so disproportionately distributed among the contestants, I couldn't help but wonder sometimes if the whole thing is geared toward/is setup for the success of a particular contestant or a small group of "pre-picked" contestants at the end, not others.

appu · Post by **appu** » 16 Feb 2011, 12:16

binmux wrote:As much talented as they are, Ganesh, Kumaresh and Sowmya need to learn how to be humble and avoid sarcastic comments, from NSG.
NSG is so inclusive and kind even when he suggests something.

Yes completely agree with your sentiments. It felt that Sowmya took an instant hatred to the young lady. No reason to ask if Sarasa was her neighbour. Kunaresh and Ganesh exhibited tunnel vision. instead of elevating the artists caliber, they were trying to show off. A lot to learn from the dignified NSG.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 16 Feb 2011, 13:00

16-02-2011- now available in my channel at
http://www.youtube.com/user/vkailasam

venkatakailasam

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 16 Feb 2011, 16:46

Some of the judges' comments and instructions remind me of the Vidwat examination held here in Karnataka. Especially Sri Santhanagopalan's interactions. They remind me of the revered (late)Vid. Sri R R Keshavamurthy of Bnagalore, a senior violinist. He used to do exactly this during the exam and un-nerve many candidates.

If you got through after facing him, you really earned the Vidwat certification!
The candidates are unbelievably talented.
Good luck to all of them in their future careers, whether they are selected as 'idols' or not!

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 16 Feb 2011, 16:56

!- from the last eight stage the telecast should show the name and the telephone number of the contestant as long as they perform for the benefit of outstation Sabhas and music organization.
2-- Instead of each judge announcing his verdict, It would be better if each one of them writes in a piece of paper IN or OUT and the compere can collect them all read the overall result as for example 4 ins and 2 outs etc.. JUdicial anonimity avoids animosity and embarrassmentI.. Of course there is no bar to express their overall impression the plus points and the minus points.The only thing they do not say is the outcome.
3-It will be worthwhile to consider whether at the last 2 stage when the difference is hairline the winner is decided by Lucky draw Everyone will agree that Dame luck has no small influence in music field also
4-At the last four stage, one being selected, the other three can be given a direct entry into the semifinal stage of next year's competition. This is done in sports tournaments.This will also help them from getting dejected .
5- In the event of equal votes, the benefit of doubt should go to the contestant instead of keeping him in suspense account. this situation can be avoided if the number of judges is odd in number.

suma · Post by **suma** » 16 Feb 2011, 19:15

They put Nandini in wait list..not good. I think she sang better than Kalpalathika. Apoorva is out. Aishwarya is also good. She is in.

Enna_Solven · Post by **Enna_Solven** » 16 Feb 2011, 19:57

My salutations to Santhanagopalan sir.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Feb 2011, 21:14

This is only an entertaing show. It is not going to decide who is going to be a successful CM artiste. Nor are the present panel of judges the arbiters of deciding who is in and who is out in CM. The sabhas should not make up their minds on the basis of what they see in this show. The questioning tests a small fraction of the knowledge base of the students some of whom are quite nervous justifiably due to their age and the manner of questioning, some of which are intimidating.

The students should know ahead of time the categories where they are going to be examined instead of their providing a random list of ragas and kritis based on which the questions are asked. The judges should ask questions uniformly and objectively basedd on the categories and cumulate the scores. Finally they should submit their individual scores which finally cumulated will decide the top six to be selected.

Even seasoned senior performers have weakness in kaNakku. In fact 'sarvalagu' SSI has confessed his weakness in that area time and again. Again questions on Sahitya can trip off contestants who know only the overall meaning and not the pada artha; nor do they know to break the words appropriately when they are unfamiliar with the language. It is unfair to trip them off on these areas though the CM education need to emphasize their importance in the curriculum.

I fondly hope that this program does not shatter the hopes of promising youngsters seeking a career in CM. Nor should they get disappointed not getting the dangled 'Trip to USA'. If only about twenty NA sabhas are willing to host any of these bright youngsters I am willing to buy a return ticket for him/her and even host that person during that period

In fact Pothys can afford to do it for all the present participants...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 16 Feb 2011, 21:59

I thought asking for a bahudari chAyal via sruthibedham in a SrIranjani alapana was a bit way too much but then maybe the judge expected someone to win this to do that?

Arun

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 16 Feb 2011, 22:23

Arun, Good point. That seemed like an entirely whimsical question. I am not sure what that was even supposed to test. It might have been a better question if he had asked what ragam it would be if you sang these swarams in this manner (like Surya from Shanmukhapriya).

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 16 Feb 2011, 22:51

Yes - but I guess the point was to test strong handle of sruthi and swarasthanams - but I wonder really how many people can handle that question without any warning. This seemed a bit too exhibitionist to me.

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Feb 2011, 22:52

Arun
could you explain how Bahudari can be obtained from Sriranjani through shrutibhEdam...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 16 Feb 2011, 22:57

Code: Select all

M1 D2 N2 S R2 G2 M1   (sriranjani starting from ma )
S  G3 M1 P D2 N2 S      (bahudari)

but on descent bahudari you omit D2 (S N2 P) - I think some say S N D N P - anyway no S N D P.

Basically (like what the judge Ganesh said), you fix the ma sthanam as your new sa, completely forget you are/were in sriranjani, and think only of bahudAri and "just do it"

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 Feb 2011, 23:34

WOW
That is at the Ph.D level ! (to figure out in a trice..)
Requires remarkable shruti control..
(Has TNS done it in any concert? If so reference please...)

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 17 Feb 2011, 00:37

Regarding the graha bedham: It is a bit on the heavy side for this competition, but I am not sure if this was a deal breaker for the candidate. we should remember that the whole show is heavily chopped before telecast and there is no rhyme or reason to what we get to see. NSG as a judge likes to throw random questions just to put the candidates out of the comfort zone (in a well meaning sense) to demonstrate their skills. Maybe this is one of that kind... We can only conjecture until we know the whole process

@ cmlover: there's little TNS has not done on the concert stage. I will check if there are any particular performances. If you come across it earlier please let me know...
Tanjai Kalyanaraman is another likely artiste to check for this graha bedham, coming from the well spring of the technique. but his concert recordings are much more sparse and of poorer quality...

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 17 Feb 2011, 01:01

cmlover wrote:WOW
That is at the Ph.D level ! (to figure out in a trice..)
Requires remarkable shruti control..
(Has TNS done it in any concert? If so reference please...)

Actually it is more of a psychological thing than technical. The judge told the contestant (after a SrIranjani alapana), if you start with ma, it becomes bahudari - can you show it in your alapana? . So even if you simply take it as gospel - what is expected is to bend your (carnatic influenced) mind to shift the sa to ma, and then simply (!) sing bahudAri - without worrying oh, the dha in sriranjani is ga here etc. etc. You are to forget sriranjani temporarily and shift to bahudAri. That is what the judge advises the contestant - i.e. how to approach it.

But I do not know how normal is is to expect folks at this level can shift tonic and hence raga "on-demand" without prior-preparation.

Arun

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Feb 2011, 01:17

Arun
actually I checked Karnatic.com and found that there is a raga
S G3 M1 P D2 N2 S' /S' N2 D2 P M1 G3 S called Karnatka Khamas!
Shifting the tonic should not be too difficult for these students who are used to singing madhyama shruti all along. But she must not be knowing this particular type of shruti bhedam in whcih Ganesh as an instrumentalist is versatile. She could have sung bahudari straight but the shruti will clash and Ganesh would have faulted her! In all fairness he could have asked the violinist to give her a lead and she would have caught on! NSG would have done it that way..

mysoremurthy · Post by **mysoremurthy** » 17 Feb 2011, 05:16

All the contestants are unbelievably talented and have 'potential' ( which seems to be the main criteria for selection). Hope they keep at their wonderful music with spirit and energy even without an 'idol'. A round of applause for all of them!!!
Judging was okay but contradictory at some places. For one contestant, it was mentioned that they have to consider only the performance at that round and for another contestant the same judge mentioned that a neraval sung in earlier rounds was stuck in her mind. That was contradictory in my opinion. I do not understand Tamil very well but 'judging' by demeanor of judges during performances, NSG seemed to be very professional. A very enjoyable show

thanaroopi · Post by **thanaroopi** » 17 Feb 2011, 06:58

cmlover wrote:This is only an entertaing show. It is not going to decide who is going to be a successful CM artiste. Nor are the present panel of judges the arbiters of deciding who is in and who is out in CM. The sabhas should not make up their minds on the basis of what they see in this show. The questioning tests a small fraction of the knowledge base of the students some of whom are quite nervous justifiably due to their age and the manner of questioning, some of which are intimidating.

I fondly hope that this program does not shatter the hopes of promising youngsters seeking a career in CM. Nor should they get disappointed not getting the dangled 'Trip to USA'. If only about twenty NA sabhas are willing to host any of these bright youngsters I am willing to buy a return ticket for him/her and even host that person during that period
In fact Pothys can afford to do it for all the present participants...

Amen to this! I only hope that both the audience and the performers see it this way. Winning or losing this competition is not at all the end of the line. In fact, each person whose performance has been telecasted has already "won" quite a bit of visibility. Not to sound sappy or cliche, but in a way, they've all won something already.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 17 Feb 2011, 09:53

just saw episode 14A. thanks again, Sri Kailasam.

Was delighted to see the very talented Raghav Krishna (son of VV Ravi) in this round. The swarams starting in samam for Natamaduvar thillai were indeed tricky! Probably Kumaresh's best (and only really relevant) question till this point.

Did anyone see this contestant in the prelims or did I miss something?

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 17 Feb 2011, 10:11

17-02-2011- now available in my channel at
http://www.youtube.com/user/vkailasam

venkatakailasam

chalanata · Post by **chalanata** » 17 Feb 2011, 20:29

knarayana wrote:Concur with your view on the previous post that Nandhini's was a okay performance today - her performance in the previous round was excellent, so I had a high expectation this time, it was a disappointment in that sense. However, as you reflected, I too think this whole program is being edited to a great extent before telecast, so we would never know how a contestant performed in the whole time he/she was on the stage. Looking at this editing stuff and also that the telecast time is so disproportionately distributed among the contestants, I couldn't help but wonder sometimes if the whole thing is geared toward/is setup for the success of a particular contestant or a small group of "pre-picked" contestants at the end, not others.

Excellent observation! I'm also getting the same feeling after watching today's episode (17.2.2011).

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 Feb 2011, 21:18

I certainly do not subscribe to any views that this contest is 'rigged'

The judges are above board though some may be lacking in maturity but their knowledge of CM is unquestionable. CM of course is highly subjective and there is honest disagreement among different practitioners. During thesis defence we have seen examiners differing violently between each other which often works to the advantage of the candidate. In this case it is evident at times that NSG is not fully in tune with Ganesh or Kumaresh and though he is not explicit does give the benefit of the doubt to the candidate (for example his play on the word 'Notes' ) which of course does not help. Perhaps a joint deliberation among the judges will be more fair than a simple count of INs and OUTs. At any rate the entertainment value of this program is high though it is by no means an objective evaluation of the CM potentials of the participants...

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 17 Feb 2011, 22:30

CML, your analysis is spot on. The entertainment value is high in hearing the deliberations. The truth is that we are not witness to all that transpired.However, there are many ways to make the testing more objective; for e.g. in the present system, one participant may get a tough layam question and another might get a difficult one on grahabedam.

I also find your thesis defense analogy intriguing. The jury tries to reach unanimous consensus, but only if that is not possible, chooses to vote for a simple majority. However, this could also mean that the more vociferous in the jury could dominate the proceedings. No system is perfect. However, any test that does not spot or separate real talent needs to be re-examined!

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Feb 2011, 01:32

Yes Ramesh
The rules differ considerably across the Universities and even within departments.
When I was at UC Berkely the thesis of a brilliant student was rejected by the committee, which subsequently got published in a prestigious Journal and hailed as a significant contribution. The committee put to shame, reconvened and graduated him with flying colours!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 18 Feb 2011, 02:57

Now, I am looking forward to seeing the performances of Raghavendra and Maharajapuram Ganesh.
Do we know what the broadcast schedule for the finals will be? Surely, they can't televise the whole thing in one session (I hope they do though)!

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 18 Feb 2011, 03:42

Aishwarya had one of the toughest set of questions, swaram for ragas in quick succession requires a lot of manodharma, think she did a commendable job. Though I wouldnt yet conclude that the contest is rigged,(to borrow CML's usage) it is evident that there are two sets of contestants, one who are students/have been students of the judges and have known them, and the other who are contesting all by their merit. Aishwarya, Ganesh-Karthik, Nandini perhaps belong to the latter category, (though I cannot be sure)

suma · Post by **suma** » 18 Feb 2011, 06:35

Aishwarya was good, I agree. Raghav Krishna's voice was good, but the spot on manodharmam was not that strong. He is the son of VV Ravi and Student of PSN. I am sure one day he will make it big, but for now, he is just ok. Anahita was ok.

Thanks a lot for loading the videos for us.

Rasika911 · Post by **Rasika911** » 18 Feb 2011, 07:19

For me I didn;t really like ganesh's arabhi in round one. So far it seems to be anahitha vs rahavendra.

Also, I wish Jaya TV stopped editing it so much. Wish we could see more of what actually happens.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 18 Feb 2011, 09:50

18-02-2011- now available in my channel at
http://www.youtube.com/user/vkailasam

venkatakailasam

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 18 Feb 2011, 10:15

Thanks Sri Kailasam.

Just saw the wonderful episode 15. I thought Raghavendra was simply brilliant! His neraval in kharaharapriya was classic. The promptness with which he thinks and delivers is quite amazing. He is still very much my top seed.
Brinda Manickavasagam and Krithika did just fine, though there was a lot of hesitation in both their performances.

My top 3 now: Raghavendra, Vishnu and Anahita. Ganesh-Karthik and Maharajapuram Ganesh after that. Perhaps, Nandini following those if she gets past the wait list. So, if the finals are on the 20th, we won't get to see the last semis till Monday. My guess is that they will release the finals in 4-5 installments.

knarayana · Post by **knarayana** » 18 Feb 2011, 12:10

[quote="kartik"]Aishwarya had one of the toughest set of questions, swaram for ragas in quick succession requires a lot of manodharma, think she did a commendable job. Though I wouldnt yet conclude that the contest is rigged,(to borrow CML's usage) it is evident that there are two sets of contestants, one who are students/have been students of the judges and have known them, and the other who are contesting all by their merit. Aishwarya, Ganesh-Karthik, Nandini perhaps belong to the latter category, (though I cannot be sure)[/qu

knarayana · Post by **knarayana** » 18 Feb 2011, 12:11

kartik wrote:Aishwarya had one of the toughest set of questions, swaram for ragas in quick succession requires a lot of manodharma, think she did a commendable job. Though I wouldnt yet conclude that the contest is rigged,(to borrow CML's usage) it is evident that there are two sets of contestants, one who are students/have been students of the judges and have known them, and the other who are contesting all by their merit. Aishwarya, Ganesh-Karthik, Nandini perhaps belong to the latter category, (though I cannot be sure)

I observed that pattern as well. Aishwarya(handled it well though), Sahana(handled Giripai in the third kattai well I thought, but her nervousness did her in eventually), Nandhini and Ganesh-Karthik got the toughest set of questions in that order, in my view. I think the favorites contestants all have done well so far, but am not sure if the line of questioning of them was as tough. Just MHO.

I won't explicitly call it out as "rigged". At the same time I am not interested in declaring the judges including NSG as above board either, when at least, two of the leading contestants are students of the brother of a judge, another student of NSG, and another student of Sowmya and also when there is a noticeable variance in the toughness of questions. If I do, then I will only be making this as a fora to blow the trumpet on their behalf.

smala · Post by **smala** » 18 Feb 2011, 13:52

[...
At the same time I am not interested in declaring the judges including NSG as above board either, when at least, two of the leading contestants are students of the brother of a judge, another student of NSG, and another student of Sowmya and also when there is a noticeable variance in the toughness of questions. If I do, then I will only be making this as a fora to blow the trumpet on their behalf...]

Which contestants, please?