Carnatic Music Idols (2011)- JAYA TV Programme

Rasika911 · Post by **Rasika911** » 18 Feb 2011, 14:05

Knarayana, who are the students you are referring to? I only know the girl who is sowmya's student who sang chittam irangadhedhenaya in sahana in the preliminary round.

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 18 Feb 2011, 16:56

Thanks Sri Kailasam for the uploads

I think Raghavendra was excellent and extremely confident through the tough round. I thought I heard some apaswaram in Brindas Hindolam, but it could be just me.

NSG tends to test the spontaniety of the contestant very well.

suma · Post by **suma** » 18 Feb 2011, 19:48

Yes Raghavendra was excellent. Notice the attention and stress level on the judges face as they maintain the talam for Raghavendra. I think Raghavendra and Vishnu (2nd in my opinion) will be the top seed.

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 18 Feb 2011, 20:43

Vishnu is my favourite so far. Raghavendra is very good too, but Vishnu's music gushes forth with an authoritative confidence the others seem to lack (IMO). It could be his sareeram that makes it sound so... I'm also favouring him and Ganesh Karthik as they seem to have caught others by surprise...(maybe it's my imagination?)

Its funny how the other judges seem to withdraw (with a smirk?) when NSG gets into his interpretations and philosophy...too profound for the young crowd?

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 18 Feb 2011, 20:52

I agree with you pvs
there is no room for philosophizing in a contest about Kundalini etc., which appears more to be a show-off. On the otherhand those being educational for the candidate can be edited out and more of the performances of the candidate could be telecast. The sermonizing (or the ignorance of those aspects) does not contribute to the evaluation of the candidate (at least I hope...)

pavithrac71 · Post by **pavithrac71** » 18 Feb 2011, 22:26

I don think its a good practice to keep commenting about the judges and keep comparing them with NSG sir....Truly he is a great artist, that does not mean that the other judges like Sowmya, Ganesh or Shashikiran are in any way lesser to any other person. If their intention was to ridicule these young musicians, I don think they would be wasting their time on judging these kids. In fact, Sowmya, Shashikiran etc. hardly get time to question the contestants and give their comments. We also need to remember that what is shown for the 30 mins is only an edited version...We are shown only excerpts(comments), so most of us do not know what has gone before and after. With this sort of a scenario, I feel its unfair to pass judgements about such senior musicians.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 18 Feb 2011, 23:13

Pavithra, No one is saying that the other judges are in any way lesser people or that they have some agenda to put these young kids down.

Some of us just wish that they had the same tact, statesmanship, dignity and wisdom in the way they carry themselves as NSG. I think this is a reasonable expectation, at least for old-fashioned people like myself. We expect that senior artistes should be exemplary in their demeanor. This includes treating everyone with "mariyaadai".

A few comments made by the other judges give the impression that they are trying to exhibit their knowledge more than testing that of the participants. These sentiments have existed in these discussions long before NSG even made an appearance on the show! So, it does not have to with the amount of time they spend examining the candidates.

Your point about us not seeing everything that went down is indeed a valid one. That sentiment has been expressed in this thread a number of times earlier also.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 18 Feb 2011, 23:22

I tend to agree with Smt. pavithrac71. we may resist the temptation to comment about the performance of the Judges.

No body is above the inclination to exhibit their knowledge when they knew that hundreds of people are watching the program.

It is all in the tide of things.

venkatakailasam

kamavardhani · Post by **kamavardhani** » 18 Feb 2011, 23:43

In fact I believe the biggest show-off is NSG... too much vala-vala rambling as well as cutting off other judges mid-sentence. He gets good press because of the way he sugar coats his sarcasm (vaazha pazhathula oosi...) One needs to be at the venue to see things in the right perspective. The edited capsules that appear on TV hardly do justice to the sincere efforts of the judges, participants and organizers. Folks here are so eager to jump on a conspiracy bandwagon and make all kinds of baseless allegations! The finals are to be held this Sunday at Chettinad Vidyashram... experience it first-hand, unedited & live!

kartik · Post by **kartik** » 19 Feb 2011, 01:04

Sounded strange to me too,NSG did cut the other judges several times. How come GV didnt ask a single question?(again,could be due to editing).

veeyens3 · Post by **veeyens3** » 19 Feb 2011, 03:45

Irrespective of who is declared winner on finals, all the competetors are winner as expressed in an earlier posting. Remember Baron Courbertin, who revived modern Olympics. He said that not winning but taking part that counts If we watch the performances of all the candidates, we see definite improvement on their performance, confidence body language etc from their earlier efforts. This is a positive gain for CM Too much emphasis need not be laid on the judges, They are also normal mortals like others and are variable. If they solve the Sudoku puzzle on that day's morning paper at the first attempt they may be on cloud nine and view everything with a benign eye. On the other hand,if they have a spat with their spouse/children/parent etc, they may have a negative bias on every thing they do on that day. On final balance sheet, CM is a winner

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 19 Feb 2011, 04:57

I don't think anybody has been wrongfully kicked out of the competition yet due to judging. Only some who the judges see more 'potential' in (than we do) have been boosted to next levels. (its a different argument if the competition is for 'potential' or 'kinetic' music) unfair as it may sound, its going to add to the spectacle of the finals. otherwise the judges have been admirable, coming up with novel ways of bringing out talents. If only they could rein in their quirks and sarcasm (especially the more visible, open comments)...

knarayana · Post by **knarayana** » 19 Feb 2011, 05:09

shyama-priya wrote:[...
At the same time I am not interested in declaring the judges including NSG as above board either, when at least, two of the leading contestants are students of the brother of a judge, another student of NSG, and another student of Sowmya and also when there is a noticeable variance in the toughness of questions. If I do, then I will only be making this as a fora to blow the trumpet on their behalf...]

Which contestants, please?

Just google on contestant names. Spend some time to review about few pages of each search result, you will find out whose student are they. Especially, student of NSG you will find that out right away.

smala · Post by **smala** » 19 Feb 2011, 05:14

knarayana, I know only the first names as said in the program - not enough to "search" with. You seem to know more, so why not mention their names since you have already brought it out?

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 19 Feb 2011, 07:31

S-P: Here is an approximate list. No wonder these kids are so good. Many of them have unbelievably good tutelage. All of this is public and not privileged information.

Brinda Manickavasagam - disciple of NSG
Subhashree (the one who sang Chittam Irangada) - disciple of Sowmya
Aishwarya Shankar - disciple of Suguna Varadachari
Anahita & sister Apoorva - disciples of Chitravina Ravikiran
Raghav Krishna - disciple of PSN and son of VV Ravi
Raghavendra - disciple of Sanjay Subrahmanyan & PSN (more recently), son of Srimushnam Raja Rao
Nandini - based in Trivandrum & disciple of Parassala Ponnammal, also Bombay Jayashree (winner of last year's Ragaratnam Yuva)
Ganesh Viswanathan - son & disciple of Maharajapuram Srinivasan (initial training from Sri Santhanam)
Sahana - From California, but trained with PSN (I think). She won the Cleveland competitions last year.
Krithika Natarajan - disciple of Lalgudi Jayaraman (and others)

Unknowns: People I have not encountered before

KS Vishnu Dev: based in Trissur
Ganesh-Kartik: no clue about his lineage; but he is really good.
The Aussie kid: not sure, perhaps Mohan can help.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Feb 2011, 08:12

My prediction is Vishnu will win the contest since he has the voice and poise unless he is intentionally tripped by the judges (which is unlikely).
Raghavendra is strong on kaNakku but that alone is not sufficient; we don't know his strength in handling ragas.
Anahita is easily distracted and will be nervous (more due to her age..)
Ganesh requires more experience though he is strong on conventionals.
Others are just runner up..
Unfortunate Nandini will not make it...

smala · Post by **smala** » 19 Feb 2011, 08:14

Thanks Mahavishnu - I am impressed that with no "known" guru or tutelage both Vishnu (no Tamil) and Ganesh Karthik are outstanding - really proud - hope they are rewarded in this show and decades to come.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 19 Feb 2011, 08:23

mahavishnu wrote: The Aussie kid: not sure, perhaps Mohan can help.

That is Krishna Ramarathinam, who has lived in Australia most of his life. He is a disciple of MS Ramanathan in Sydney and more recently V. Subramaniam (disciple of Semmangudi) in Chennai via Skype. He is a grandson of the late Sattur Subramanian. I didn't see Krishna in the 2nd round yet - perhaps it is not televised yet.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 19 Feb 2011, 08:47

thanks, Mohan. That is pretty much Carnatic royalty.
S-P: It would be ironic, if the person that wins is a relative outsider with no palpable connections to the spheres of influence.

Natakurinji · Post by **Natakurinji** » 19 Feb 2011, 09:16

Agree with Kamavardhani... When Sowmya asked Nadhini (?) to sing the Thaanam pattern of Thodi varnam without the samam eduppu, either what Nadhini sang was edited or NSG snubbed that question (?)
To me it appears, that Sowmya, Ganesh and Kumaresh insist more on the swara suddham and laya gyanam of the contestants while NSG tries to bring out the creativity of the contestants. For an art form like CM, all the three aspects are required.

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 19 Feb 2011, 10:04

Good point Natakurinji. I wonder if that's their mandate as judges, already agreed upon? (I mean the division of labour)

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 19 Feb 2011, 14:36

cmlover wrote:I agree with you pvs
there is no room for philosophizing in a contest about Kundalini etc., which appears more to be a show-off. On the otherhand those being educational for the candidate can be edited out and more of the performances of the candidate could be telecast. The sermonizing (or the ignorance of those aspects) does not contribute to the evaluation of the candidate (at least I hope...)

Totally disagree with both the substance and style of your comment. Highlighting finer aspects in compositions by a senior knowledgeable vidwan in an easy going manner is very much welcome notwithstanding the bitter opposition from half-baked self-appointed armchair "scholars".

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 19 Feb 2011, 19:07

Its funny how the other judges seem to withdraw (with a smirk?) when NSG gets into his interpretations and philosophy...too profound for the young crowd?[/quote]
Yes , you are right. Whenever NSG opens his mouth[ for passing comments] they look at each other showing deaf ears which is not an healthy practice. Next time, organizers can utilize the services of Sarath who is camping in chennai, an expert in CM and also cine/light music,as one of the judges so that all can enjoy fun at the contestants' expense. In general a big show off by all the judges.

Thanjavooran 19 02 2011

suma · Post by **suma** » 19 Feb 2011, 20:10

sureshvv wrote: Highlighting finer aspects in compositions by a senior knowledgeable vidwan in an easy going manner is very much welcome.

I agree, the song Sree Subramanyaya has lyrics that deal with muladhara chakra and so the composition has notes that go from Sa to Pa. NSG wanted to point the mind of the composer in asking the question and I think that was brilliant.

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 19 Feb 2011, 21:06

In the Part II-Semi -18-02-2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm2jDhz0bT8 NSG asks the contestant to clarify if it is kanTiki sundaradaramagu or kanTiki sundarataramagu (in chakkani raajamaargamu charanam). To me, both sound awkward, and infact, Karnatik.com simply says kanTiki sundaramagu which is clean. Which is correct?

Also who is this contestant? He sounds really good and is quick to catch on. I wish they put the names on the screen when they show the contestant, it would help a lot!

- Sreenadh

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 19 Feb 2011, 21:11

shruti-laya,
Please refer - http://thyagaraja-vaibhavam.blogspot.co ... -raga.html

'sundara-taramagu' is the correct version.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 19 Feb 2011, 21:42

Actually in sanskrit
sundaradara would mean 'beauty destroying/tearing' which is atrocious in this context. It is nice that NSG picked up this error in singing and correctedd it for the benefit of all musicians! I think I heard Ragahavendra singing sundara -daramigu initially (pardon my weak hearing) and was ambiguous when questioned by NSG and subsequently corrected himself... He and others should watchout for questions on sahitya in the final which may be important in their final rankings...

suma · Post by **suma** » 19 Feb 2011, 21:52

ShrutiLaya wrote:Also who is this contestant? He sounds really good and is quick to catch on. - Sreenadh

He is Raghavendra, son of Srimushnam Raja Rao

ShrutiLaya · Post by **ShrutiLaya** » 19 Feb 2011, 22:16

Thanks, gentlemen ..

@vgovindan if I may ask, what is the source for this lyric ? I have no doubt you're correct, NSG is very knowledgeable and I just listened to Nedanuri garu rendering it this way too.

@ cmlover as I understand the process, the contestants submit a list of krithis, so it should not be hard to study up at least on those particular sahityams. NSG has done well by serving notice that he is going to watch the sahitya shuddhi too. Personally, I think sahityam is very important, and not just for rankings ..

@suma thanks, sir. Then he is actually Telugu??

- Sreenadh

vgovindan · Post by **vgovindan** » 19 Feb 2011, 22:36

shruti laya,
I have consulted the following books -
(1) Compositions of Tyagaraja - Sri TK Govinda Rao.
(2) Spiritual Heritage of Tyagaraja - SrI C Ramanujachari (Introductory thesis - Dr V Raghavan)
(3) Sad-guru Sri Tyagaraja Swami KeertanaigaL (Tamil) - Sri TS Vasudevan/Sri AK Gopalan
(4) Adi Tyagaraja Kirtanams (Telugu) - Sri KV Srinivasa Iyengar.

suma · Post by **suma** » 19 Feb 2011, 22:56

ShrutiLaya wrote:@suma thanks, sir. ??

- Sreenadh

Sreenadh... thanks, ma'am/madam/lady

not Sir

Is shrimushnam raja rao telugu?

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 19 Feb 2011, 23:10

He's ancestrally from Karnataka, but was born in Tamil Nadu. He speaks Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, (english), and others I'm sure.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 20 Feb 2011, 00:54

Srimushnam is a village near Chidambaram/Cuddalore/Vriddachalam. The story behind the village can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srimushnam
Raja Rao's family are "Madhwa" brahmins that came and settled in Srimushnam over the last few centuries. As mri_fan says, they speak a number of South Indian languages. The primary musical influence for Srimushnam-ites is Bhajana Sampradayam music. Raja Rao upon moving to Madras had exposure to Papanasam Sivan, Seethalapathy Balu etc.
Raghavendra is a Madras kid though. His mother, an accomplished singer, is Iyengar and daughter of the famous tamil writer Chandilyan. I can only imagine that his tamil must be very good, given his lineage. Raghavendra is presently doing an advanced business degree (MBAish) in Bombay.

knarayana · Post by **knarayana** » 20 Feb 2011, 03:27

shyama-priya wrote:knarayana, I know only the first names as said in the program - not enough to "search" with. You seem to know more, so why not mention their names since you have already brought it out?

I was just about to post, but just saw Mahavishnu's posting with all the information, in fact more than what I originally had. Thanks Mahavishnu.

Student of NSG(Brinda Manickavasam) was also one of the three co-singers - another was NSG's daughter - of Sowmya in her Margazhi Mahotsavam 2010 concert which was telecast on Jaya TV(I viewed this concert in youtube recently, wanted to post that link here, but I don't find it anymore - looks like has been removed since).

Now you connect the dots and do the math

Thinking of the whole thing, I also realise that it's a business at the end of the day i.e the event management company which does this program doesn't do it for charity. Businesses like certain outcome(s), and they go with players(judges in this context) who align and help facilitate/attain that outcome.

hamsadhwani · Post by **hamsadhwani** » 20 Feb 2011, 04:02

I think like last year, all the contestants would ultimately be given some recognition, if not for their talents, certainly for their tutelage, parentage, lineage!

For example, Sriranjani was awadrd the prize for "best concert list", if I remember right and many felt that the line of questioning was quite simple for her compared to others. However, I do think that all these kids are immensely talented and as someone pointed out, are already winners in their own right.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 20 Feb 2011, 05:31

Knarayana: On a similar vein, here is Sowmya from last year's Margazhi special on Nandanar Charitram with Bharat Sundar and Raghav Krishna http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u1ulTuVSp4
And here is Raghav Krishna and Raghavendra singing together with Raja Rao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuK-pEMwx9k
And if I had a penny for the number of times I have heard NSG, VV Ravi and Raja Rao in concert together, I would be a very wealthy man now.

What can one say, the Chennai music scene has fewer degrees of separation than Kevin Bacon's hollywood! But I see no problems with it. Nobleness enkindleth nobleness.

All said, I am glad to witness such talented young singers in the making. As a person wiser than I said, in the end WE (the rasikas) are all winners.The future of Carnatic music is reasonably secure. I hope all these participants continue in grow in talent and gnanam well after idol season is over.

I wish all of them the very best for the finale that thousands of people will be watching on sunday! I kindly request people attending the event to not post any spoilers

hamsadhwani · Post by **hamsadhwani** » 20 Feb 2011, 05:40

mahavishnu wrote: I wish all of them the very best for the finale that thousands of people will be watching on sunday! I kindly request people attending the event to not post any spoilers

Thank you, Mahavishnu!! I wish they telecast whole event, even if they reserve it for later, like they telecast light music programs on special days as "sirappu nigazhchigal".

knarayana · Post by **knarayana** » 20 Feb 2011, 05:58

mahavishnu wrote:Knarayana: On a similar vein, here is Sowmya from last year's Margazhi special on Nandanar Charitram with Bharat Sundar and Raghav Krishna http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u1ulTuVSp4
And here is Raghav Krishna and Raghavendra singing together with Raja Rao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuK-pEMwx9k
And if I had a penny for the number of times I have heard NSG, VV Ravi and Raja Rao in concert together, I would be a very wealthy man now.

What can one say, the Chennai music scene has fewer degrees of separation than Kevin Bacon's hollywood! But I see no problems with it. Nobleness enkidleth nobleness.

All said, I am glad to witness such talented young singers in the making. As a person wiser than I said, in the end WE (the rasikas) are all winners.The future of Carnatic music is reasonably secure. I hope all these participants continue in grow in talent and gnanam well after idol season is over.

I wish all of them the very best for the finale that thousands of people will be watching on sunday! I kindly request people attending the event to not post any spoilers

Actually I have a slightly different take on nobleness and also additionally fairness. I hold the view that the former doesn't and shouldn't override the later. However, I understand it's hard to make it happen here the way it is setup and organized.

I have no question or doubt about the talent each of the contestants possesses, in fact I am looking forward to attend the finals myself. However, I do plan to post my views, that sometimes may not align with the general reverential and appreciative tone I sense in many posts in this thread, I intend to do nonetheless

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 20 Feb 2011, 06:34

KNarayana: you have every right to post your views. Just don't give away the suspense

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Feb 2011, 06:57

Knowing now that Brinda was the disciple of NSG, I notice he did not excuse himself from questioning her as conflict of interest..
Is she among the finalist?

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 20 Feb 2011, 07:13

What about Shri VishnuDev ?
I understand his tutelage include Shri NSG and PSN and recently he had a concert at Mumbai.

venkatakailasam

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 20 Feb 2011, 07:22

Looking thru the posts on this topic, it is clear that there is a great wealth of talent among the posters.

We have Carnatic music judges who see less than what the on-scene judges see and come to quick conclusions about the contestants.

We have interior decorators who question the lack of aesthetics in the set being used by Jaya-TV.

But above all, one unique characteristic stands out.

By reading these posts, one must conclude that paranoia runs rampant among the viewers of the show and/or posters.

Please realize most of these paranoid tendencies, attendant delusions about the fairness of the competition, your own superiority in judging/set designing, etc., stem from mere chemical imbalances in the brain.

A visit to a competent psychiatrist would get you a prescription for the right medication that will get you on the path to recovery.

Start on it right away! You have nothing to lose but your paranoia! ]

|(

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Feb 2011, 08:00

Harimau
This ia a positive/constructive delusion good/therapeutic for our folks!
You should join too, unless they ask the contestants to sing an abhang to show their CM versatility which means a rude awakening

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 20 Feb 2011, 08:32

Harimau is only the doctor and is not likely to have these paranoid tendencies.

Why to join others who have these paranoid tendencies??

venkatakailasam

Enna_Solven · Post by **Enna_Solven** » 20 Feb 2011, 09:32

harimau wrote: We have interior decorators who question the lack of aesthetics in the set being used by Jaya-TV.
A visit to a competent psychiatrist would get you a prescription for the right medication that will get you on the path to recovery.(

I saw the two sets and perceived the Kerala program's set to be superior. It was a subjective view. Don't indulge in personal attacks. It is sick. Stick to your attacks on Aruna Sairam, your own chemically imbalanced superiority in judging/hating her is well known ]

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 20 Feb 2011, 10:53

So every one in this thread is judgemental and opinionated, according to harimau....to the exclusion of harimau himself ! Funny, I did not notice it!

smala · Post by **smala** » 20 Feb 2011, 10:59

...We have interior decorators who question the lack of aesthetics in the set being used by Jaya-TV....

Thus spake harimau. One who said something rude about Jaya TV in another thread but, here, seems to imply all is well jumping to the defense of the channel even if it is just "aesthetics". A Devil's Advocate.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 20 Feb 2011, 11:41

harimau,

I really fail to see what upsets you in this thread. Of course, I too find it becoming increasingly boring, like the show itself: the fun's wearing out. Very fast.

You need not connect rigged's accusations on Clevaland and Jaya TV to the much more sensible demands that they should give same kind of chairs to all judges.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 20 Feb 2011, 18:43

cmlover wrote:Knowing now that Brinda was the disciple of NSG, I notice he did not excuse himself from questioning her as conflict of interest..
Is she among the finalist?

I don't think Brinda manicavachakam is NSG's student, AFAIK, her guru is suguna varadachari

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Feb 2011, 19:44

...and now the winner of Carnatic Idol 2011 is...
It is not a contest..it is a career.