VISION & MISSION-2011-2012

[munirao2001]

I have realized fully the keen desire of all the rasikas of CM, including my fellow members in this forum on the need of CM reaching out to larger population of rasikas and attain mass appeal. With the strength of various important stake holders-Rasikas, Musicians, Musicologists, Research scholoars, teachers, students, critics, Media representatives, sponsors/donors-both individual, corporate and institutional representative members/their close associates, we should achieve success. Please participate in this vital and noble cause, freely and without any inhibitions and prejudice, but with Pride.
It is time for positive, concrete and active actions by the rasikas to translate the idealization in achieving the goal of CM for the masses in India and global.
Can we seriously and sincerely discuss and arrive at VISION, MISSION, GOALS and ACTION PLAN -April,2011 to March-2012 ?
After this is done by 15th April,2011, form voluntary group(s) in all the centers by 30th April,2011 and commence the action plan from 1st, May,2011, with quarterly reviews and corrective actions.

[raghukumar]

Commendable idea, but difficult to implement

As the founder of MyCarnatic (www.mycarnatic.org), I am constantly thinking of NEW ways to help PROPAGATE Carnatic Music. We must move out of the current shell that Carnatic Music exists in- one largely composed of Tamil Brahmins- and move towards a lot bigger shell that includes people from all backgrounds and ethnicities.

I believe one way to accomplish this is through education- not education in sense where the student learns how to sing/perform an instrument, but educating the student into appreciating Carnatic Music. Let's face it- learning how to identity a ragam is not easy! Having the patience to sit through a concert isn't easy either! In fact, for a complete newcomer- if they are able to sit through a Thodi, kudos to them (because to a layman, I strongly believe a heavy ragam like Thodi is more difficult to appreciate than a "soft" ragam like Behag)

So let's figure out ways to help spread the word on CM- that would be single greatest thing our generation could do

[srikant1987]

Let's face it- learning how to identity a ragam is not easy!

But it is not necessary either! Nick will elaborate hopefully!

In fact, for a complete newcomer- if they are able to sit through a Thodi, kudos to them (because to a layman, I strongly believe a heavy ragam like Thodi is more difficult to appreciate than a "soft" ragam like Behag

Even Bilahari tells me he finds tODis hard to sit through.

What about "sitting through" a bEgaDa or suruTTi -- do you think that is hard too? The problem with tODi is not "heaviness" it's R1 (and D1) -- and several other things about its nature.
---

I think what is needed is anti-education, meaning removal of any bias held against CM.

And then, an easy-to-digest but honest representation of CM should be given: instrumental music, may be with a greater proportion of happy ragas. Preferring (for a new induct) bilahari over sAvEri among heavyweights, and behAg over haMsAnandi among lightweights and gaurI manOhari over siMhEndra madhyamam among middleweights.

[vasanthakokilam]

>I think what is needed is anti-education, meaning removal of any bias held against CM.

sabAsh, sabAsh!! Nice thought, Srikant!

Such deprogramming process has to be undergone by current CM rasika base also since they are the ones who give off the vibe that pollute the new comers. If we develop the attitude of enjoying the music for the sake of music without having to bring in technicalities, that will help widen the circle. It may be hard for us to relate to, but that is how majority of listeners relate to music. Sowkyam and dyanmics is all the focus should be. Sowkyam is exhibited when you nod the head in appreciation or go 'aha..' and dynamics is exhibited when you want to move/sway the body to the music, so to speak. This mind-body effect is all there is to it, if we want to keep it simple and uncomplicated.

The fact that those two are produced by melody and rhythm with its umpteen possibilities is the 'manufacturer side issues' and not the 'consumer side issues'. CM, for whatever historical reasons, has a huge component of leakage of the manufacturer side concerns to the consumer side. The analogy I like to keep in mind is: While cooking food in a microwave, we do not concern our selves with the wavelengths of the microwave, we are only concerned with the right 'padam' of the heated food.

[Nick H]

That is a nice analogy!

Let's face it- learning how to identity a ragam is not easy!

But it is not necessary either! Nick will elaborate hopefully!

Did you want me to do neraval, as well as swara, in my elaboration?

You're right. Not necessary. Of course, I wish I could, and one day, perhaps...

Frankly, most of my western friends just do not take to Indian music, H or C. Those that do, however, are sometimes complete novices. Those with musical backgrounds of their own, even without being able to identify raga, even notice nuisances in the music that I have not seen.

EDIT: Srikant spotted this... the word, of course, should be nuances. The nuisances are usually in the audience

Even Bilahari tells me he finds tODis hard to sit through.

Funnily enough... on two or three occasions that I have really enjoyed a piece and enquired the raga, the answer has been, "todi"!

Those westerners who do already like Indian classical music, but have not spent time going further, probably only know Hindustani music. If you can sit through an alap that slowly winds up over 45 minutes, or even an hour, and a concert consists of maybe three pieces, then CM seems, at first, to be like HM for people with attention deficit syndrome . Of course, one gets over that, although I still sometimes long for an hour-long RTP!

[VK RAMAN]

IMHO, each member among the rasikas take on oneself that -

They shall learn and learn to render atleast 12 CM kritis in a year with sruti box only . Listen atleast 365 hours of music a year. Volunteer and sing in temples/art associations irrespective of whether you have knowlegeable audience or not. Learn to sing in other languages such as hindi. Create your own website and upload your songs for public to listen.

Involve in Local CM groups and volunteer ones time to improve and enrich CM related activities

Setting up vision and mission is one thing and practice is another thing.

[Ranganayaki]

I believe today's composers should FEEL fearless and make any beautiful idea "singable". CM needs to be pried out of the vise-like grip of religiosity and spirituality. It may still be a spiritual experience - born of the free will of the singer and/or the listener.

[Pratyaksham Bala]

The 'vision-mission-goal-plan-review' will work only within an area of operation where one has absolute control over all the activities and decision making.

The carnatic music field is so vast with a wide variety of players - musicians, composers, students & teachers, sabhas, and rasikas, each one with their own convictions. And no one group - including rasikas - is a homogenous group.

One way out is to start small. Start with a particular place - say, your city - and try propagating CM. Even in your own place, you may not have control over all the participants. But you may have greater access to talk to them and try to influence them.

Firstly, you have to start with a survey of the potential rasikas in your city, to find out why they don't like CM now! Their expectations should receive the highest preference, for they are the consumers who can bring in the desired change. They may want 'sowkyam and dyanmics' as vasanthakokilam mentioned. Or they would like to have more songs in the language known to them. As Ranganayaki says, they may prefer songs on a variety of subjects.

Based on the above findings, arrange a series of programmes presenting what the rasikas need. For this, you have to exercise your control over the selection of songs by the musicians! And you have to wield your influence on the sabhas. To sustain the momentum, you may have to enlist the support of donors month after month ...

If you achieve something positive within a period of two years, then you can share your success story with others.

[vasanthakokilam]

>you have to start with a survey of the potential rasikas in your city,

Good idea PB. I had suggested a similar thing in a different thread. As a student assistant to professors I have done grunt work for them... Along those lines, the many hundreds of disciples of musicians can conduct this survey in a scientific manner. Randomize and pick around 1200 households in a town or city area. Knock on the door and conduct the Q&A in the old fashioned way. At the end of the Q&A, they can reveal who they are if asked ( which can do double duty as marketing without spoiling the quality of the survey results )

I am sure some people will criticize this as the most degraded form of 'singing to the gallery'. The interpretation of the survey results and any 'adjustments' the musician makes to their concert comes later, if at all. At least we will have the data and we can all see if our pet hypotheses have any validity. If the randomizing process is good, the data should be applicable to a wide cross section of society.

[srikant1987]

Frankly, most of my western friends just do not take to Indian music, H or C. Those that do, however, are sometimes complete novices. Those with musical backgrounds of their own, even without being able to identify raga, even notice nuisances in the music that I have not seen.

That is so honest!

But sparser / restrained music will have fewer (or no) nuisances, won't it?

[vasanthakokilam]

nuisances or nuances?

[srikant1987]

VK,

I meant nuisances. I think Nick did too (seeing as he's talking of friends not taking to H/C music).

[bilahari]

I thought Nick meant nuances?

[manavan]

educating the student into appreciating Carnatic Music. Let's face it- learning how to identity a ragam is not easy! Having the patience to sit through a concert isn't easy either! In fact, for a complete newcomer- if they are able to sit through a Thodi, kudos to them (because to a layman, I strongly believe a heavy ragam like Thodi is more difficult to appreciate than a "soft" ragam like Behag)

The tone of this thread is really kind of bizarre to me. Why would anyone who didn't particularly enjoy listening want to be "educated into appreciating"? Does anyone really want kudos for attending a concert? Whatever happened to pleasure and enthusiasm?

Reading rasikas.org sometimes makes me feel lucky that I started listening to Carnatic music by happenstance and far removed from its social context, via mp3s. I became interested in teh technical aspects partially because it seemed like everybody else knew them except me, but in my sheer ignorance I didn't have any trouble listening to Todi or not recognizing ragams.

From my observation of myself and people I've put on, faster passages of swaras are more immediately appealing than slow elaborations and people with beautiful voices like BMK or KJY are more appealing than Ariyakudi or Sanjay but that's about it. It would be interesting to hear about successful "ice-breaker" renditions, I find everyone loves MLV singing Sri Jalandhara.

[vasanthakokilam]

Reading rasikas.org sometimes makes me feel lucky that I started listening to Carnatic music by happenstance and far removed from its social context, via mp3s. I became interested in teh technical aspects partially because it seemed like everybody else knew them except me, but in my sheer ignorance I didn't have any trouble listening to Todi or not recognizing ragams.

Social context or not, your path to CM and technical aspects is a well-trodden one. The general vibe of this thread is not that dissimilar to your views. We are even postulating that over-emphasis on the technical aspects is a possible hindrance to what you correctly state as 'pleasure and enthusiasm'. Of course, in our proselytizing zeal, we can not help think about how to make people appreciate what we all love so much.

Manthra is doing a great job along the lines of what Raghukumar is thinking about. We will have to see what effect their efforts have.

>It would be interesting to hear about successful "ice-breaker" renditions

Excellent idea!

[munirao2001]

Thanks to all the eight fellow rasika members for their posts/inputs. I am appealing to all the fellow members to actively and seriously participate and post/give inputs.
I am summarizing, below the ideas/suggestions of Raghukumar,Srikant1987, Vasanthakokilam, Nick.H.,VKRaman, Ranganayaki, Prathyaksham Bala and Manavan:

1) To attract and include people/rasikas from all back grounds & ethnicity, through CM appreciation programmes
2) Removal of bias held against CM, easy to understand and appreciate contents, ragas/melodies delivering joyous feelings and more instrumental music programmes.
3) CM contents with Sowkhyam and Dynamics, with simplicity(easy to understand) and uncomplicated(easy to appreciate) for mind-body effects.
4) To know and understand 'nuisance' factors, acting as barriers of listening experience of CM.
5) Self action and actions for the enhancement of participation.
6) Compositions in CM, totally free from religiosity and spirituality.
7) To meet the challenge of heterogeneity and bring in homogeneity. Survey on dislikes of rasikas not inclined /hate to listen to CM/potential rasikas. Rasikas choice CM programmes.
8) Faster pace compositions in CM, Voice culture and 'ice-breaker' renditions by CM musicians.

I am confident with rush of many more invaluable insights/inputs/ideas/suggestions from fellow rasikas members, we will have better perception and arrive at better informed action plans and achieve results and success, in the near future. The task is enormous, no doubt, but eminently achievable.

[manavan]

Social context or not, your path to CM and technical aspects is a well-trodden one. The general vibe of this thread is not that dissimilar to your views. We are even postulating that over-emphasis on the technical aspects is a possible hindrance to what you correctly state as 'pleasure and enthusiasm'. Of course, in our proselytizing zeal, we can not help think about how to make people appreciate what we all love so much.

:-/ My point was that enthusiasm about pleasure is more appealing to me than proselytizing zeal, educating, de-educating and all the rest of it. I'm much less hindered by technical discussion than creepiness of tone. Anyway, I will find the exit now, clearly this discussion of how to appeal to novices would be better off without input from this novice.

[munirao2001]

manavan
'credits & discredits' is not on focus. Every idea and input is valuable in this endeavor. Please participate, with open and free mind. Thanks.

[vasanthakokilam]

Manavan, what happened here? Creepiness of tone? What tone and whose tone? I thought you made some good points. There are many dimensions to this and what you stated is one of them. Patience is required to sort out these kinds of things. The starting position itself need not be 'these idiots do not know anything', that may be the concluding position

Stick around if you can.

[Nick H]

I am in two minds too. I'm not sure that CM needs to be marketed; I am sure that it doesn't need to be changed. In fact it already covers a wide spectrum of serious/populist, with several flavours available at many points in that spectrum.

I am sure that it needs to made more visible, on a world-wide basis.

Perhaps there are barriers that need to be removed --- but, probably many of us who charged right in and sat down were never aware of those barriers in the first place!

[VK RAMAN]

I am sure that it needs to made more visible, on a world-wide basis. - I endorse this point.

[vasanthakokilam]

We are all saying the same thing. Marketing and making it visible is all the same.. distinction without much of a difference. What Manthra does is about music appreciation and everything is right about that and we should encourage that kind of activities. Manavan's points about focusing on the pure enjoyment of music and what songs have turned on novices to fans, are spot on. Unfortunately he has walked off prematurely from this thread..

Above all, from the artists, sabhas and administrative side, resisting change for the sake of resisting change is as counter productive as changing for the sake of changing.

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Muni Rao and other Rasikas: This is a thread near and dear to my heart-Count me in for my inputs --and if they are not forthcoming you are free to "harass" me thro my personal e-mail account!!!
1. I believe that despite the growth of interest in CM and lots of young well-educated men and women taking seriously to the profession,given the potential universe amongst ourselves in India and abroad, we--rasikas,institutions,private patrons ought to do more to "proselytize"!!.
2. I have no illusions that without our intervention,CM will go to the "dogs" Yet we as rasikas can do more to enlarge the body of connoisseurs. A couple of decades ago, there was a misplaced notion that prevailed--briefly summarised,it ran thus" the democratisation of music has produced a lot of ignoramuses--the Law of the Raspberry Jam is operating i.e.- the more it is spread the thinner it becomes. I wrote an article in the Shanmukha Magazine in Bombay in 1974 "The Rise of the Culture Consumer and the Fall of taste in Carnatic Music"--essentially trying to debunk the notion held by "Elitists" that CM can be appreciated only by the "elite" and that attempts to "popularise" CM would only end in debasing puritan standards. That article was a response to my own frustration -- when I was young and attended concerts -- at a few "elitists" trying to decry the "current-at- that -time" standards and lauding how in the Twenties and Thirties CM was at its zenith etc etc. My generation who grew up in the forties and fifties --especially boys-- were not actively encouraged( I was lucky because I was born into a music-adoring family) and as a result it was confined to some old blow-hards and young girls and women taking seriously to music with the rest of us in the sidelines. Fewer institutions,economic condiions and a host of other factors were responsible for the 'stagnation" in the listening population. TODAY,none of the above factors--elitism economic condition,institutions-are prevalent and despite the growth in population the percentage interested in CM-- I dare say-- is much less than it was when I was growing up. With the multiple channels available for dissemination of music today we should have more listeners.
We cannot rely on the Institutions because they are more "focussed" on providing platforms to young artistes and do not believe that their job is to "extend" the listening Market although it would be in their long-term interests to do so.

That brings to the forefront--our role as Rasikas to "swell" the ranks. naive as it may sound if each one of us take it upon ourselves to "mentor" a "shy-and-reluctant" but willing friend or relative who has hitherto been feeling intimidated to a concert--

More to be continued---

[raghukumar]

What about "sitting through" a bEgaDa or suruTTi -- do you think that is hard too? The problem with tODi is not "heaviness" it's R1 (and D1) -- and several other things about its nature.
---

I think what is needed is anti-education, meaning removal of any bias held against CM.

And then, an easy-to-digest but honest representation of CM should be given: instrumental music, may be with a greater proportion of happy ragas. Preferring (for a new induct) bilahari over sAvEri among heavyweights, and behAg over haMsAnandi among lightweights and gaurI manOhari over siMhEndra madhyamam among middleweights.

I agree, the R1/D1 plays into that as well...but why is it that a Sindhu Bhairavi is generally easier to "listen through" than a Thodi? So no, it ALSO has to do with the ragams. Of course the ragams and compositions go hand in hand- compositions in Sindhu Bhairavi are generally more melodious to an untrained ear than a Thodi, and there are many reasons for this (which we don't need to go into detail since it deviates from the topic of conversation)

bottom line: attempt to prioritize the songs/ragams/instruments that maximize the "appealing" factor to the untrained ear, while NOT compromising on the music itself. For example, a violin/veena/flute concert with the following song list with the main piece in Kalyani, RTP in Mohanam, 90 minutes in length, with time spent to EXPLAIN to the audience members what the heck is going on is a lot more appealing than a male vocalist, 3 hour concert with submain Pantuvarali, Main in Thodi, RTP in some obscure ragam, with no participation with the audience.

The tone of this thread is really kind of bizarre to me. Why would anyone who didn't particularly enjoy listening want to be "educated into appreciating"? Does anyone really want kudos for attending a concert? Whatever happened to pleasure and enthusiasm?

Reading rasikas.org sometimes makes me feel lucky that I started listening to Carnatic music by happenstance and far removed from its social context, via mp3s. I became interested in teh technical aspects partially because it seemed like everybody else knew them except me, but in my sheer ignorance I didn't have any trouble listening to Todi or not recognizing ragams.

From my observation of myself and people I've put on, faster passages of swaras are more immediately appealing than slow elaborations and people with beautiful voices like BMK or KJY are more appealing than Ariyakudi or Sanjay but that's about it. It would be interesting to hear about successful "ice-breaker" renditions, I find everyone loves MLV singing Sri Jalandhara.

IMO, most people that are acquainted to CM don't do it on their own, but are initiated into it by family/friends/etc. IMO, it's just not EASY to listen to a CM song, say "aha, that sounds fantastic! I want to learn a lot about this and see what's going on here". But, if one listens enough, over time they probably will learn to appreciate it and want to listen to it.

Is there anything wrong with that notion? I don't think so: as long as one does end up learning to appreciate CM in a organic fashion.

Thanks to all the eight fellow rasika members for their posts/inputs. I am appealing to all the fellow members to actively and seriously participate and post/give inputs.
I am summarizing, below the ideas/suggestions of Raghukumar,Srikant1987, Vasanthakokilam, Nick.H.,VKRaman, Ranganayaki, Prathyaksham Bala and Manavan:

1) To attract and include people/rasikas from all back grounds & ethnicity, through CM appreciation programmes
2) Removal of bias held against CM, easy to understand and appreciate contents, ragas/melodies delivering joyous feelings and more instrumental music programmes.
3) CM contents with Sowkhyam and Dynamics, with simplicity(easy to understand) and uncomplicated(easy to appreciate) for mind-body effects.
4) To know and understand 'nuisance' factors, acting as barriers of listening experience of CM.
5) Self action and actions for the enhancement of participation.
6) Compositions in CM, totally free from religiosity and spirituality.
7) To meet the challenge of heterogeneity and bring in homogeneity. Survey on dislikes of rasikas not inclined /hate to listen to CM/potential rasikas. Rasikas choice CM programmes.
8) Faster pace compositions in CM, Voice culture and 'ice-breaker' renditions by CM musicians.

I am confident with rush of many more invaluable insights/inputs/ideas/suggestions from fellow rasikas members, we will have better perception and arrive at better informed action plans and achieve results and success, in the near future. The task is enormous, no doubt, but eminently achievable.

Well put! There is nothing in a "CM Appreciation program"- I am willing to bet that if a complete newbie knew what the heck a raga was, or at least the concept of it, he/she keeps an OPEN mind while listening to the song. It's very, very much like this TED video, one of my FAV videos of all time

http://www.ted.com/talks/benjamin_zande ... ssion.html

Is there something inherently "wrong" with that video

We are all saying the same thing. Marketing and making it visible is all the same.. distinction without much of a difference. What Manthra does is about music appreciation and everything is right about that and we should encourage that kind of activities. Manavan's points about focusing on the pure enjoyment of music and what songs have turned on novices to fans, are spot on. Unfortunately he has walked off prematurely from this thread..

Above all, from the artists, sabhas and administrative side, resisting change for the sake of resisting change is as counter productive as changing for the sake of changing.

Change is good! If there is a legitimate need for it

[srikant1987]

In fact it already covers a wide spectrum of serious/populist, with several flavours available at many points in that spectrum.

I am sure that it needs to made more visible, on a world-wide basis.

It should ALSO be made well-known that the spectrum is so wide! Or people may listen to one artist and give up on CM itself.

[rajeshnat]

I wrote an article in the Shanmukha Magazine in Bombay in 1974 "The Rise of the Culture Consumer and the Fall of taste in Carnatic Music"--essentially trying to debunk the notion held by "Elitists" that CM can be appreciated only by the "elite" and that attempts to "popularise" CM would only end in debasing puritan standards. That article was a response to my own frustration -- when I was young and attended concerts -- at a few "elitists" trying to decry the "current-at- that -time" standards and lauding how in the Twenties and Thirties CM was at its zenith etc etc.

MKR Sir
By any chance do you have the article , if you have the hardcopy can you scan it sir.

[munirao2001]

Ramasubramanian.M.K

despite the growth in population the percentage interested in CM-- I dare say-- is much less than it was when I was growing up.

Chennai December Music festival season rasikas may doubt about the veracity of this statement. But, it is factual. During the Q&A session in Maestro Shri Vijay Shiva's Margazhi Utsavam of Jaya TV-concert, a question was put on the current increased rasika population and the growth. Maestro beautifully and rightly pointed out the facts about the Chennai rasikas numbers not showing proportionate growth taking in to consideration the number of Sabhas/seating capacity during 50's-60's and the current numbers of Sabhas/seating capacities and the population numbers in the 50's-60's and the present. Fact presented was indeed, a negative growth!
This was the trigger for me to contemplate, educate my self and learn and join the like minded rasiksas of CM to bring the change and enjoy the results of real growth in CM rasikas, Classical Music for the masses and the resultant benefits for all the stake holders.

[munirao2001]

Nick.H.[quote][/quote]]" I'm not sure that CM needs to be marketed; I am sure that it doesn't need to be changed. In fact it already covers a wide spectrum of serious/populist, with several flavors available at many points in that spectrum."
Any performance in Public and for the public, is Selling for a consideration-physical(e.g.money) or psychological(e.g.ego). For successful sales campaign(s), marketing is required. Cutcheri CM is no exception! Indeed, crux of the problem is, despite the wealth of a wide spectrum of serious/populist and rich with several flavors, CM is not connecting with larger population of rasikas and CM has not become the music for the masses. The popularity of Indian Film music with masses, using liberally the classical music, with constant innovation, presenting light classical music, clearly points out the scope for opportunity and the need for changes. With research, knowledge, focus, innovation, preparation, presentation, offering specific and targeted music and its experiences, to different category/class of rasikas, CM will be music for the masses, ensuring its continuity and longevity, with robust health.

[munirao2001]

Dear fellow Rasika members of Chennai
I shall be in Chennai from 9th April to 16th April. If we can meet and have a personal discussions on this important task, it may help in hastening the process. My contact details is:
S.Madhva Muni Rao
17/4, 28th Cross street, Besentnagar, Chennai-600090
(Near Anna School). Tel:044-24914125. Cell:+91-9845336203.