Hello all,
Has anybody here tried/using synthetic core strings on violin for carnatic music?, Dominant, Evah Pirazzi, Tonica, Zyex etc?
Any idea how would they sound in srutis 1-3. Somewhere I read they dont sound good when tuned lower than western standard tuning. (EADG - 5 / 6 kattai).
Any thoughts, Ideas welcome on this topic.
Violin: Synthetic core strings
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T.T.SRINIVASAN
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 08:51
Mr. raguanu, Hello
As for as my experience is concerned none of the above mentioned strings are useful for srutis 1 -- 3. Best suited is Pirastro chrmcor. we can use only E - string from the above mentioned packets. The greatest disadvantage w.r.t above mentioned strings is fine tuning and also not smooth while playing. one can not use screws for finer adjustments & it should be done with pegs only, which is slghtly tough. Tonica resembles approximately guts strings which was previously used. I have tried all the strings you have mentioned and I was never happy. Best suited for all srutis ie., A to G sharp is pirastro when properly tied. ... T.T.Srinivasan
As for as my experience is concerned none of the above mentioned strings are useful for srutis 1 -- 3. Best suited is Pirastro chrmcor. we can use only E - string from the above mentioned packets. The greatest disadvantage w.r.t above mentioned strings is fine tuning and also not smooth while playing. one can not use screws for finer adjustments & it should be done with pegs only, which is slghtly tough. Tonica resembles approximately guts strings which was previously used. I have tried all the strings you have mentioned and I was never happy. Best suited for all srutis ie., A to G sharp is pirastro when properly tied. ... T.T.Srinivasan
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S.NAGESWARAN
- Posts: 1076
- Joined: 11 Feb 2009, 08:54
raguanuji,
I don’t know much about synthetic core strings and its purpose . If it is sympathetic strings I understand that Sri R.Balaji, Hindustani and Carnatic music violinist player and a lecturer in Hindustani music in Benaras University made a violin with sympathetic strings and plays the violin.
S.NAGESWARAN.
I don’t know much about synthetic core strings and its purpose . If it is sympathetic strings I understand that Sri R.Balaji, Hindustani and Carnatic music violinist player and a lecturer in Hindustani music in Benaras University made a violin with sympathetic strings and plays the violin.
S.NAGESWARAN.
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raguanu
- Posts: 94
- Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 11:48
Thanks for the reply Mr. Srinivasan. Why can't we use the fine tuners? they don't come with ball ends? or any other reason?, please explain.T.T.SRINIVASAN wrote:Mr. raguanu, Hello
The greatest disadvantage w.r.t above mentioned strings is fine tuning and also not smooth while playing. one can not use screws for finer adjustments & it should be done with pegs only, which is slghtly tough.. ...
As you mentioned Chromcor seems to be used quite a lot in concerts. But again, chromcor are steel strings. I read some articles claiming synthetic core strings have more complex and richer tone than steel ones.
Thanks again for your post. Probably you saved me a few thousand rupees
~~~~~~~~~~
Mr. Nageswaran, Sympathetic strings on violin! sounds interesting. But i was asking about the main strings being synthetic instead of steel. Thanks for the info anyway.
~~~~~~~~~
Mr. Kashyap - checkout this site: http://www.furtadosonline.com They are the dealers/distributors for pirastro etc. They have a shop in Bangalore. Chromcor set should cost somewhere around Rs. 1600
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svkashyap
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 15:25
Raguanu, Thanks for the info. http://www.pirastro.com/pdf/flyer/engl.pdf has info about Pirastro's Synthetic strings
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T.T.SRINIVASAN
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 08:51
Mr. raguanu,
synthetic core strings are flexible. As a result sruti will not be perfect for a long time. you should go on tuning violin often in a concert which spoils the mood . One of our top most artists is using those strings. Even though the tonal quality of his violin is very good , you may see him often tuning in between the concert. He never uses fine adjusters for his violin. Fine adjusters will not work on flexible strings. When I asked him about that, his answer was simple that he has got used to it. Another point w.r.t strings you have mentioned is that playing is not smooth with it. Pirastro chromcor is a coiled wounded strings and not a plain steel string.In bangalore it is available in siva musicals, Fraser town and also in malleswaram. It is about Rs 1500/= for one set. Yet another point I would like to mention here is That it is not strings or violin that is important but it is how much we are used to it ie., our practice etc.Kunnakudi sir was using only Indian strings ie., Electrometal and steel. It also depend on the hands which plays the violin. What we consider as a bad violin ,when you give it to some other artist it sounds very well in his hands. I have myself seen in the hands of some of our top artists the sound produced is pleasing and better with the violins what i thought is not good. This is my experience.
synthetic core strings are flexible. As a result sruti will not be perfect for a long time. you should go on tuning violin often in a concert which spoils the mood . One of our top most artists is using those strings. Even though the tonal quality of his violin is very good , you may see him often tuning in between the concert. He never uses fine adjusters for his violin. Fine adjusters will not work on flexible strings. When I asked him about that, his answer was simple that he has got used to it. Another point w.r.t strings you have mentioned is that playing is not smooth with it. Pirastro chromcor is a coiled wounded strings and not a plain steel string.In bangalore it is available in siva musicals, Fraser town and also in malleswaram. It is about Rs 1500/= for one set. Yet another point I would like to mention here is That it is not strings or violin that is important but it is how much we are used to it ie., our practice etc.Kunnakudi sir was using only Indian strings ie., Electrometal and steel. It also depend on the hands which plays the violin. What we consider as a bad violin ,when you give it to some other artist it sounds very well in his hands. I have myself seen in the hands of some of our top artists the sound produced is pleasing and better with the violins what i thought is not good. This is my experience.
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srikant1987
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
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T.T.SRINIVASAN
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 08:51
MrSrikant 1987,
I am not able to get you. The local Indian violin with indian strings and box is nearly Rs 4000/=. No shop is selling the new violin for a little more than Rs 1500!atleast in Bangalore. But as for as Pirastro chromcor set of 4 strings, it is definitely not less than Rs 1500/=. These strings are imported from Germany and other places. I have my self purchased one set of Pirastro chromcor for 24 us dollars in the year 1987 at USA that too when it was on sales. Now it is 40 $ or even more if I am correct.
I am not able to get you. The local Indian violin with indian strings and box is nearly Rs 4000/=. No shop is selling the new violin for a little more than Rs 1500!atleast in Bangalore. But as for as Pirastro chromcor set of 4 strings, it is definitely not less than Rs 1500/=. These strings are imported from Germany and other places. I have my self purchased one set of Pirastro chromcor for 24 us dollars in the year 1987 at USA that too when it was on sales. Now it is 40 $ or even more if I am correct.
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raguanu
- Posts: 94
- Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 11:48
Mr. Srinivasan,
I totally agree with you when you say it's the musician (and his/her practice) who is more important than the violin or strings.
About Kunnakkudi, perhaps Electrometal strings served well for his purpose. His tone was sharp, clear and focused. The rich, thick tone of synthetics seems irresistible, but from what you say it seems it's not much suitable for our way of music.
Just one little thing is still fussy... you mentioned synth strings are not smooth. Do you mean the bow resistance or the feel under the playing fingers?
@Srikant: you can get a very basic violin for Rs. 2000 (not less than that). Decent student violins cost Rs. 5000 - Rs. 30,000 . Indian strings set Rs. 50 or so. These imported strings are more expensive. Chromcor set was Rs. 1550 last year. now it could be a few hundreds more. Most of these items are more expensive here than what we see online ($ prices)
I totally agree with you when you say it's the musician (and his/her practice) who is more important than the violin or strings.
About Kunnakkudi, perhaps Electrometal strings served well for his purpose. His tone was sharp, clear and focused. The rich, thick tone of synthetics seems irresistible, but from what you say it seems it's not much suitable for our way of music.
Just one little thing is still fussy... you mentioned synth strings are not smooth. Do you mean the bow resistance or the feel under the playing fingers?
@Srikant: you can get a very basic violin for Rs. 2000 (not less than that). Decent student violins cost Rs. 5000 - Rs. 30,000 . Indian strings set Rs. 50 or so. These imported strings are more expensive. Chromcor set was Rs. 1550 last year. now it could be a few hundreds more. Most of these items are more expensive here than what we see online ($ prices)
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T.T.SRINIVASAN
- Posts: 34
- Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 08:51
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ganesh_mourthy
- Posts: 1380
- Joined: 02 Sep 2007, 23:08
A few years ago , when I went to check the Indian made violin , I am sorry to say it really was bad. Has the quality improved over these years for the Indian made violins I think the accent is nowadays more on chinese violin affordable and good for even 4000 Rs. Do you get a decent Indian violin for the same price as and good as a chinese violin of the same cost?
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srikant1987
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
@ ganesh_mourthy
I hear Indian violins are very inconsistent. The best violins tend to be Indian ones, as also the worst. Chinese violins are always good to a certain minimum standard, but none of them matches that Indian violin chosen carefully by a lucky hand.
I hear Indian violins are very inconsistent. The best violins tend to be Indian ones, as also the worst. Chinese violins are always good to a certain minimum standard, but none of them matches that Indian violin chosen carefully by a lucky hand.
Last edited by srikant1987 on 02 Apr 2009, 23:41, edited 1 time in total.
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sridhar
- Posts: 69
- Joined: 08 Jan 2007, 01:47
can someone reccommend a good violin for purchase in USA ? I tried a couple of violins from Shar musical store that were in the $600 price range. The sound quality wasn't appealing to me (not much better than an indian violin we bought for Rs 2000 though the build quality was very good). I am looking for sound similar to those that visiting artists carry. My price limit is around $500. Thanks.
Last edited by sridhar on 03 Apr 2009, 02:44, edited 1 time in total.
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ganesh_mourthy
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vnbharadwaj
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 30 Mar 2009, 00:16
While we are discussing about imported violins and strings, my mind goes back to 30s and 40s when young boys and girls used to play in "Kottangachi" (coconut shell) violins with a single steel string in the suburban electric trains and render popular film songs and earn the approbations of the commuters and few annas (then current) We have come a very long way
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raguanu
- Posts: 94
- Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 11:48
Re: Violin: Synthetic core strings
I've been playing around with the choice of strings for a while. I'll share my experience here; hope it'll be helpful.
Pirastro Chromcor E
My violin, Shimro, came with a quite decent set of strings. After several months of playing, I replaced the E string with a Pirastro Chromcor E. This was available loose, so I didn't have to buy the full set. The feel under the fingers is good. The tone is amazing! Very vibrant, rich and warm; not piercing metallic thin sound. I enjoy the resonance and tone while playing Taara stayi sa, ga and pa.
Stays in tune. Very durable (I've been playing on this string since Aug 30, 2008). Overall, a worthy and necessary upgrade.
Piranito Set/D,G
My mandra strings have become very old. I'm a bit disappointed about the tone, volume, and playability in the low register. I replaced the D and G strings with Pirastro's student grade strings Piranito. Initially they sounded a bit metallic, but LOUD!, later the tone softened a bit. They are much brighter than my previous strings (came with the violin), soft under the fingers. Tone is not rich and brilliant, but rather loud and clear. Ideal students strings. (D'Addario Prelude strings are the most popular student strings. Should try next time).
Searching for the 'A' string
Last year(?), the windings of my A string started coming off. I used Karuna string for a short while before starting to explore other options. Sorry, I didn't use the karuna string long enough to know how it sounds on my violin.
I found some Pyramid strings in Chennai. Used the A string for a few months. The string was thin, felt good under the fingers, the tone was a bit edgy, and very interesting. It matched good with Pirastro's Pa string. However, it was a bit quieter (and a lot thinner) compared to the Piranitos in mandram.
The Dominant A
It's been well over an year since we discussed the possibility of using Synthetic core strings for a carnatic violin here, and decided that it's not a great choice. Yet, I couldn't shake off the enthusiasm completely. Dominant A string was available in a local shop. I decided to give it a shot.
First Impression
The string looked very plain, not shiny
, compared to steel-core strings. It was a lot more thicker, that one might think it's the 3rd string rather than the 2nd. I had to widen the mouth of the fine tuner a bit to accommodate this string. It was a bit too flexible, so to lock it in the tuning peg, while winding, I had to struggle a bit.
Viola! the stringing is done! Let's see how it sounds. It sounded HORRIBLE! and the peg loosened every now and then. I had to fasten it very very tightly. For the first few days, my violin sounded as if i'm scratching some tin over a cardboard box. It was a nightmare. I was really scared to play the violin at all. Anyways It was loosing sruti very frequently (stretching string. not loose pegs).
After 3 days or so, the tone started evolving. It took almost a week, then the string became very stable and produced a beautiful tone. There's BIG BIG difference between this Dominant and all the previous 'A' strings. It's wide, resonant, complex... and there's a little metallic edge too. I'll try to make some recordings and share it here.
I totally love the dominant string. However there are a few things I should mention -
Ananth
Pirastro Chromcor E
My violin, Shimro, came with a quite decent set of strings. After several months of playing, I replaced the E string with a Pirastro Chromcor E. This was available loose, so I didn't have to buy the full set. The feel under the fingers is good. The tone is amazing! Very vibrant, rich and warm; not piercing metallic thin sound. I enjoy the resonance and tone while playing Taara stayi sa, ga and pa.
Stays in tune. Very durable (I've been playing on this string since Aug 30, 2008). Overall, a worthy and necessary upgrade.
Piranito Set/D,G
My mandra strings have become very old. I'm a bit disappointed about the tone, volume, and playability in the low register. I replaced the D and G strings with Pirastro's student grade strings Piranito. Initially they sounded a bit metallic, but LOUD!, later the tone softened a bit. They are much brighter than my previous strings (came with the violin), soft under the fingers. Tone is not rich and brilliant, but rather loud and clear. Ideal students strings. (D'Addario Prelude strings are the most popular student strings. Should try next time).
Searching for the 'A' string
Last year(?), the windings of my A string started coming off. I used Karuna string for a short while before starting to explore other options. Sorry, I didn't use the karuna string long enough to know how it sounds on my violin.
I found some Pyramid strings in Chennai. Used the A string for a few months. The string was thin, felt good under the fingers, the tone was a bit edgy, and very interesting. It matched good with Pirastro's Pa string. However, it was a bit quieter (and a lot thinner) compared to the Piranitos in mandram.
The Dominant A
It's been well over an year since we discussed the possibility of using Synthetic core strings for a carnatic violin here, and decided that it's not a great choice. Yet, I couldn't shake off the enthusiasm completely. Dominant A string was available in a local shop. I decided to give it a shot.
First Impression
The string looked very plain, not shiny
, compared to steel-core strings. It was a lot more thicker, that one might think it's the 3rd string rather than the 2nd. I had to widen the mouth of the fine tuner a bit to accommodate this string. It was a bit too flexible, so to lock it in the tuning peg, while winding, I had to struggle a bit. Viola! the stringing is done! Let's see how it sounds. It sounded HORRIBLE! and the peg loosened every now and then. I had to fasten it very very tightly. For the first few days, my violin sounded as if i'm scratching some tin over a cardboard box. It was a nightmare. I was really scared to play the violin at all. Anyways It was loosing sruti very frequently (stretching string. not loose pegs).
After 3 days or so, the tone started evolving. It took almost a week, then the string became very stable and produced a beautiful tone. There's BIG BIG difference between this Dominant and all the previous 'A' strings. It's wide, resonant, complex... and there's a little metallic edge too. I'll try to make some recordings and share it here.
I totally love the dominant string. However there are a few things I should mention -
- Thick. Looks glaringly thick amongst the other strings on violin. Looks well on Low and High srutis, however.
- Thick. I needed to widen my fine tuner.
- Nasty. Comes with Aluminum coating. Fingers become Black after playing. Use oil, and your fingers will become more black.
- VERY expensive. Available as a Set, and loose string 'A' available.
- Works ok with the Fine tuner. I was afraid I couldn't use the fine tuner to make minor adjustments. That wasn't the case.
Ananth
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srikant1987
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
Re: Violin: Synthetic core strings
Hi ragunau,
I'm presently using the ordinary Karuna set -- I think they're called the "electrometal" or something like that. With one difference -- I use the "28" variety instead of A, because I found the A a little taxing on my fingers at the shruti of F at which I normally play.
A new 28 string too is kind of taxing, but if you persevere it for a few times, either the string gives in or the finger gets strengthened or both, and it becomes easier.
I'm now wondering if I should try something like that for the D string too -- I've always found it even harder than the A, but because we use it less often, I found it OK ... but now, I would like a better alternative, if one's there.
I find playing mantra sthayi on the G very comfortable (until the normal sa), but we can't go to the ri of madnya sthayi from there (that easily, even if we can! yeah, MSG probably can play the ati tara sa there
) so the D is vital after all, in many important musical constructs!
I'm presently using the ordinary Karuna set -- I think they're called the "electrometal" or something like that. With one difference -- I use the "28" variety instead of A, because I found the A a little taxing on my fingers at the shruti of F at which I normally play.
A new 28 string too is kind of taxing, but if you persevere it for a few times, either the string gives in or the finger gets strengthened or both, and it becomes easier.
I'm now wondering if I should try something like that for the D string too -- I've always found it even harder than the A, but because we use it less often, I found it OK ... but now, I would like a better alternative, if one's there.
I find playing mantra sthayi on the G very comfortable (until the normal sa), but we can't go to the ri of madnya sthayi from there (that easily, even if we can! yeah, MSG probably can play the ati tara sa there
) so the D is vital after all, in many important musical constructs!-
raguanu
- Posts: 94
- Joined: 12 Oct 2008, 11:48
Re: Violin: Synthetic core strings
Karuna strings are great value for money. It's only natural to think all other strings are unproportionally overpriced. Still, it's worth trying out various strings to find what suits our needs best.
I tried the Dominant A string in srutis from 3 - 6, all in between. At F and G the string was sounding brilliant and was quite easy on fingers. As for strings 3 & 4 (Mandram), Piranito strings were perfectly fine for me upto sruti 5. (Yes, playing ri', ga', ma' was smooth even on low pa string)
I noticed most of the imported (even Chinese) strings are much thinner compared to Karuna's standard set. A set of strings from GBA or Granada etc. should be available for under Rs. 300. Give it a shot, you might like it. If you can shell out a little over 1000 bucks, for the whole set, you can't go wrong with a D'Addario prelude or Pirastro Piranito, especially for sruti 4.
Cheers,
Ananth
I tried the Dominant A string in srutis from 3 - 6, all in between. At F and G the string was sounding brilliant and was quite easy on fingers. As for strings 3 & 4 (Mandram), Piranito strings were perfectly fine for me upto sruti 5. (Yes, playing ri', ga', ma' was smooth even on low pa string)
I noticed most of the imported (even Chinese) strings are much thinner compared to Karuna's standard set. A set of strings from GBA or Granada etc. should be available for under Rs. 300. Give it a shot, you might like it. If you can shell out a little over 1000 bucks, for the whole set, you can't go wrong with a D'Addario prelude or Pirastro Piranito, especially for sruti 4.
Cheers,
Ananth
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srikant1987
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
Re: Violin: Synthetic core strings
I recently got a Karuna "Superior" Electrometal set and have changed from the older "28" of Karuna's inferior set to the A string in this set. I took to it instantly! I also got a Pirastro Chromcor E ... I plan to try it after changing my bridge, I feel my present bridge is too tall, and it's bent under the tension. 
I am now blaming my difficulty with ni/sa on A/28 string and ri-pa on D string squarely on the "low" fingerboard and tall bridge.
Let's see!
set to the A string in this set. I took to it instantly! I also got a Pirastro Chromcor E ... I plan to try it after changing my bridge, I feel my present bridge is too tall, and it's bent under the tension. I am now blaming my difficulty with ni/sa on A/28 string and ri-pa on D string squarely on the "low" fingerboard and tall bridge.
Let's see!