"Sowkhyam" in music - What is it?

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 06 May 2011, 08:53

one word that comes to my mind is sowkyam which is an "ow sound"
This is the one which is used in my opinion very loosely .
How is this produced ? Is it the support given by the accompaniments?
Is it linked to kalapramanam and how?
Is this applied for both classical and non classical music ?

venkatakailasam

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 06 May 2011, 20:57

Good observation Vkailasm
I have also wondered about thiis loosely bandied word.
Does it refer to the performer (his internal comfort levels) or that of the Rasikas?
I hope somebody will clarify...

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 06 May 2011, 22:26

Unless the performer is at ease (soukhyam), the listener can not feel the soukhyam

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 May 2011, 01:19

soukyam is a state of mind--both for the one who sings (plays) and for us, the listeners--a relaxed state. It allows us to be receptive to the beauty of the words and music that we hear. Our emotions are elevated and we become part of the experience in a peaceful way, as if we are part of a rAgam or kruti presented to us. We are also moved internally with the the gait of such music.
soukyam means much more than that, I'm sure!

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 08 May 2011, 02:49

arasi wrote:soukyam is a state of mind--both for the one who sings (plays) and for us, the listeners--a relaxed state. It allows us to be receptive to the beauty of the words and music that we hear. Our emotions are elevated and we become part of the experience in a peaceful way, as if we are part of a rAgam or kruti presented to us. We are also moved internally with the the gait of such music.!

Arasi and others - if we want to experience/see soukyam in action, please watch the video clip of Sri. MDR that I have referred to at the MDR thread: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 84#p196884

So much repose, so much soukyam!

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 08 May 2011, 05:00

When an artist is totally absolved in his music and enjoying himself for his own self ( Atmananda), that music also bring joy to other listeners. For ex.Each every song sung by Ramnand Krishnan is a bliss. Every one experiences the bliss. This is achieved due to so many factors bringing out the right emotions and touching our nervous system at the appropriate places!

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 08 May 2011, 05:59

What is bliss to one may not be so to another. Some may feel MDR's Bhavayami has all that one can like to have in listening to their satisfaction.
I for one like to Listen to MSS' rendition of the song- a number of times which I consider is the end of the blissful hearing
Some others prefer listening to Madurai Mani's RTPs as the one.
What an artist feels as his best may not be the one to the listener.
The other day I listened to an artist telling that she seemed to have had a good performance. But , in the review I read "the speed was good but what about the sowkiam?"
One would like to know as to what constitutes the common factor of the usage of the so called terminology Sowkiam ?

venkatakailasam

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 May 2011, 06:44

Manjunath,
I am glad you used the word 'bliss'. I thought of it too but wondered if there are those who may question that because they cannot associate the word with anything else but bhakti.
Another thing you said was that it happens when the artiste is totally absorbed in his music. Very true.

Vkailasam,
I remember your asking about sowkyam somewhere else. That's what made me try to describe that state. What you say is true too. It's not necessary that all of us in the audience respond to soukyam uniformly. Empathy is another way of describing it. Yes, for me, soukyam can come from NSG singing a durbAr or nalina kAnthi, bringing the effect of T's outpourings along with it. This afternoon I was listening to the little girl Sriranjani Dharba singing sAvEri, going to SankarAbharaNam, then tODi, and finishing with niraval in sAvEri in last year's Cleveland contest posted in another thread. Not a senior vidvAn, not singing in a concert, but singing to order by the judges as it were, but there was soukhyam in it for me--which explains your statement about how the experience of soukhyam varies in all of us.

Spring cuckoo,
Good illustration. If only I can understand half of it!

gee · Post by **gee** » 08 May 2011, 09:29

venkatakailasam wrote:one word that comes to my mind is sowkyam which is an "ow sound"
This is the one which is used in my opinion very loosely .
How is this produced ? Is it the support given by the accompaniments?
Is it linked to kalapramanam and how?
Is this applied for both classical and non classical music ?

venkatakailasam

VK, I could be wrong, but I think "soukhyam" refers to smoothness, clarity, and ease. The effect is created by all the artists on stage. For example, the song Intha Soukhya reflects this. There is no gimmicks or anything...it is simply rendered very smoothly (but effectively). Its almost haunting to listen to that song. If the vocalist is singing such, then naturally the accompanists should also play in a smooth manner. When I think soukhyam, this is what I think of.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 08 May 2011, 10:41

gee:
Please listen to he best rendition of the song by MMI:

MMI 005-Intha sowkiya-Kapi-Thayagarajar.mp3

It may have all the ingredients suggested by you.

My point is this one; What you and me like has to be universally liked by all. normally, it does not happen in all cases.
Because the tastes of individuals as also their likes and dislikes vary.

In this context only I am of the view that Sawkiyam cannot have a specific common factor.

venkatakailasam

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 08 May 2011, 11:25

VKailasam- I just took an example of Ramnad Krishnan. a rasika becomes a fan of an artist because he is at the same frequency as that of the artist. The rasika is getting that "Soukhyam". Definitely one can't define ABSOLUTE SOUKHYAM. It varies from artist to aritst. Each artist in his/her own way brings out that Soukhyam.

I get different levels of Soukkhyam by listening to MSS,MMI, SSI,ARI, GNB, Ramnad etc etc.

So, the Soukhyam is of different kinds which can't be defined and there is no ABSOLUTE SOUKHYAM !!!

gobilalitha · Post by **gobilalitha** » 08 May 2011, 12:19

Can sowkyam refer to visranti?

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 08 May 2011, 12:20

Shri vsm:

This is exactly the point which I am making.
So , when someone says that that there is 100% sowkyam or 0% sowkyam in a particular cocert,
it is only subjective thinking.
Thank you.
PS:
I hope the function went off well. My best wishes.
Some how, your mail address got deleted and I could not get you through mail.

venkatakailasam

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 May 2011, 12:45

This was almost 3 decades back. I was walking by a music teacher's flat. A bunch of students were singing the early lessons together. It sounded so good. At that time, for whatever my mood then, it can definitely be termed sowkyam. Generalizing from this basic idea, I tend to think that a good voice singing a great tune in sruthi is a necessary template for sowkyam. That may not be sufficient conditions and that is an entirely different matter.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 08 May 2011, 13:00

Generalizing from this basic idea, I tend to think that a good voice singing a great tune in sruthi is a necessary template for sowkyam.

How could you altogether forget about the instruments?

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 08 May 2011, 15:09

Perhaps soukyam is something that can be better explained using the 'neti neti' approach, i.e. we can identify examples of where it is missing.

An example of where soukyam is absent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrCH4rsV5J0
She has managed to murder this Thyagaraja composition.

It seems she is the daughter of Trichy Sankaran?

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 08 May 2011, 18:44

Sowkhyam is a term that is an expression that is always mentioned in relation to the experience of the listener.

Sowkhyam is the absence of irritants that the listener encounters during his listening which factor enables him to descend (or ascend ?) into a level of smooth concentration and enjoy the music for a certain period of time.

Since the experience is purely subjective it would depend mainly on the listener’s attitude to music, his knowledge and experience in music. The more knowledgeable the listener the more will be the irritants he encounters. This factor creates a divisions of sowkhyam for knowledgeable listeners, for the not so knowledgeable and the total lay listeners.

Sowkhyam depends primarily on the quality of the voice or the handling of instruments (including the quality of sound systems), the tempo of music, reverential approach to exposition, diction, effective use of samvadi notes, cooperative efforts on the parts of all persons on the stage, and so on.

Sowkhyam is also generated if the musician himself is deeply involved and immersed in the exposition of the raga. Perfection in instrumental handling also brings about a good level of sowkhyam. Mali and Bismillah Khan are examples. There are times when a timely ‘chapu’ on the mridangam or the reach of the upper Sa, a fast briga in between slow movements, and many such factors remain stored in the memory of the listener for many days or evens months to come. It must be due to the sowkhyam the listener enjoyed.

The irritants like loudness, harshness in voice, gimmicks, too much of brigas, too much of involement in “kanakku”, failing to bring the raga swaroopa, and many such factors also exist that do not contribute to sowkhyam.

All said and done, there are some musical greats who generate a level of sowkhyam every time they perform that transcends all limits and applies to every listener irrespective of his knowledge or attitude. To point out an extreme example, it is said that a muslim jatkawala refused to accept ‘savari’ because he was so deeply involved in listening to “Ragupati Raghave Rajaram” that was being rendered by Vishnu Digambar Palushkar.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 08 May 2011, 19:13

Good explanation to bring out niceties of sowkiyam.

Some time back I witnessed the morsing artist Rajasekar and I was so much enthralled by his exposition of the art of playing the instrument.
As usual, with the intention that others who had not witnessed can also watch , posted it in one of the threads here
which evoked no response.
Perhaps the 150% sowkiyam which I could experience may not have been felt by others?? ;(

venkatakailasam

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 May 2011, 19:22

sruthi,
My experience of the clip:
It was strange at first to hear gAnamUrthE from a stage whcih occupied performers who are not CM artistes. Then, I closed my eyes and listened to the rest of the song. I then put myself in Vasantakokilam's place when he says he experienced soukhyam as he was taking a walk and the music lesson wafting from a window stopped him. He remembers it as a soukhyam moment. This clip had all the ingredients he speaks about: a good voice, singing a great tune in Sruthi,singing calmly and correctly. There are no agitations and gyrations that you may find in a performance of young people on stage--no noise.
She sings the song without changing or bending the notes of the original song. I don't know her or her music but I can tell she's Tiruchy Sankaran's daughter. She does look like him!
As Venkatakailasam says, soukhyam means different things to different folks!

Shivadasan,
Great post

Lack of irritants--how true!
Musicians being deeply involved and immersed in their music--yes.
Or a surprise moment in which a Bismillah, Mali or their likes bring to us and we take the experience home with us.
Perfection is another factor too.
Sometimes, all the irritants like a terrible sound system, distracting audience and delays are overlooked by performers and they immerse themselves in their music and we forget the irritants too. Is it also their commitment to what's at hand?
A lay rasikA I surely am, and I'm happy about it. Otherwise, the soukhyam factor for me will diminish

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 May 2011, 19:28

Venkatakailasm,
Yes, Rajashekhar's playing makes me happy too. But, is it soukhyam for me? It's more fun, an excitement. How can I compare it with that moment a Mali, Bismillah or NSG (I simply cite these names because the posts so far have mentioned them) bring which has tranquility stamped on it (at least, for me)? Yet, the results are the same. They all make me happy.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 08 May 2011, 20:20

Smt. arasi:

There is this difference -if I may say so-.

I have cultivated the habit of not comparing one with the other.
My view is that every artist has an individuality -Their way of expounding, their experience,
their tutelage, the pani which they adopt for themselves and so many things that differentiates one from the other including the mood with which they enter the stage.

As a rasika, my duty is to enjoy the good music which they produce irrespective of their person.

I was just now listening to Smt.Aruna's rendition of venkata kavi. This was something different.

I have listened to them by Shri. M Santhanam,
Smt Sudha Ragunathan and also Madurai Shri TNS.

Everyone had brought out their uniqueness in their renditions.

Just enjoy every one of them.

After all I am not a reviewer.

venkatakailasam

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 08 May 2011, 21:10

srikant1987 wrote:"Generalizing from this basic idea, I tend to think that a good voice singing a great tune in sruthi is a necessary template for sowkyam"
How could you altogether forget about the instruments?

Did not forget it, but covering every base makes the statement long and takes the focus away from the main point.

The same parallel exists for instruments as well. Two things to refer to from the many thousands: Kalpagam mAmi's veena alapana comes across as always sowkyam filled. On the simpler side of things, "shrI gaNanAtham bhaja rE - IshamanOharI" sounds with a lot of sowkyam when competently played on the violin. I think we discussed a version by TNK in the forum a while back.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 08 May 2011, 21:21

VKailasam,
Exactly! Comparing one musician with another is futile.
As rasikAs, what a pleasant duty it's for us to experience all the music which is out there for us to enjoy! We can choose to listen to music which brings us soukhyam.
All morning I've been listening to music. My every day feast is more special today because it's Mothers Day!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 08 May 2011, 23:10

I remember, a few years ago, watching the final of the BBC Young Musician of The Year competition. I had thoroughly enjoyed every competitor, up to that point in the program. They were virtuoso performances (of course: they may be young, but they must play a full concerto for this), enjoyable performances, wonderful performances, especially as they were given by musicians in their early teens.

We all like to play beat-the-judges in competitions, and I was fairly confident in my selection, and didn't think that my number one was likely to beaten. I relaxed, in a combination of musical pleasure and intellectual self satisfaction.

Then a young violinist touched her bow to the strings, and I instantly moved to the edge of my seat. I stayed there, not in pleasure, not even in joy, but in rapture until the end of her performance. Sowkayam?

maduraimini · Post by **maduraimini** » 09 May 2011, 00:45

I am with Arasi. When I first listened to the clip, it sounded different- like light music, or blend of modern fusion- Then I enjoyed the way she sang, without any fancy sangathees or trying hard to sing the popular sangathee for that sang- simple- the way she felt it. It was genuine and I liked it. When something is different from what we are used to ,it is human tendency to knock it down. But if you enjoy it, it is sowkhyam for you. To each his own.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 May 2011, 01:21

maduraimini,
With what you've said, you don't seem to be the kind of person who knocks down what one isn't familiar with!
Before seeing the gAnamUrthE clip, I was wondering what to expect. She just sang without any gimmicks--it was simple, as you say. The tabla too went along with her flow of singing.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 09 May 2011, 03:43

If I were to define soukhyam (and yes, I would add the 'h'), I would follow the lead of the WHO (when that august body defined heath, they described it as a state that was characterized not merely by the absence of disease, but by the presence of physical, mental and spiritual well-being)....along those lines, soukhyam for me is not merely the absence of irritants and jarring notes, but the creation and appreciation of tranquility through the flow of music. It is different from being taken to giddy heights (for one has to come down from those heights), I think it is also different from rapture...it is a feeling of contentment, an inner peace that makes one go for hours on end with a smile in the heart

kamalamba · Post by **kamalamba** » 09 May 2011, 06:16

Interesting thread. Does vilamba kalam singing enhance the feeling of "sowkhyam"? Or can one can establish the feel of sowkhyam even in dhurita kalam? Some of MMIs kalpana swarams have sowkhyam despite madhyama / dhurita kala. I would like to know other rasikas' views on this.
Kamalamba

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 May 2011, 06:41

Ravi,
Very well said.

Kamalamba,
It's always nice to see your posts!
Yes, now that you say it, vilamba kAlam singing helps the musician in his bringing soukhyam. On the other hand, some may make it sound dull or blah, dependent on whether they internalize bhAvam or not. And yes, it is possible to achieve soukyam with faster singing, but unless you are rooted in classicism, you can't achieve it, in my view. Float and flutter it will, and will not make the grade for soukhyam. The ideal there is MMI, as you point out.

Ranganayaki · Post by **Ranganayaki** » 09 May 2011, 10:00

I enjoyed Shivadasan's posting about sowkhyam. His "definition" / explanation includes the absence of "irritants" as well as the presence of pleasing elements, while highlighting the completely subjective nature of the responses (of irritation / enjoyment).

Arasi, about Suba Sankaran's Ganamurthe, I would hate to knock down artistic productions that don't appeal to me, so do forgive me if it seems like I'm doing that here. I don't think she sang without gimmicks - you would not call the traditional way of singing it a gimmick, would you? I think in fact she sang without gummucks, that's all

. It did not appeal to me, and I don't think she was trying anything particularly new or groundbreaking. That she was having fun introducing her audience to a nice piece she adapted for them is all. I wouldn't strike it down, she has a right to do whatever she wants for her listeners' enjoyment. It is not for me, though.

May be I detected a couple of apaswarams.. Please correct me if I am mistaken. But she does have a strong voice, a good voice.

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 09 May 2011, 11:28

Musical experiences are essentially mind centric. When the music arrests the wavering of the thoughts, attention is riveted on the music, the listener is at ease, and the pleasure is derived for a span of time, the feelings are termed as 'Sowkhyam'. Feelings of Bliss and Peace ( strikingly beautiful -OH!moments)are different experiences and they are higher levels over the feelings of Sowkhyam. While the Sowkhyam is identified with Manas/Heart(gently touching - Aha! moments), the other two are identified with Chitta/Mind.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 09 May 2011, 12:03

I think measure leads to saukhyam. In speed. In loudness and force and emphasis. In every gamakam and every kArvai.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 09 May 2011, 19:53

This happens to be the best thread showing as to how a thread has to be developed

bringing out the various view points of the learned member friends

without any irritation to any one.

With the full sowkiyam in mind forgetting the unpleasantness ,I take leave from being an active member as I feel that this is the time I should quit.

SAI will bless everybody.

Thank you all.

venkatakailasam

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 May 2011, 20:43

Plenty of sowkyam ... but no kaaram!

Suits me!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 May 2011, 21:23

At the cost of digressing from the theme of the thread. Sri Kailasam: Why leave now? Especially in these peaceful, sowkhyam times. I hope you will change your mind.

Nick, I thought you were quite the curry king. You were relishing the relatively kaaram sambhar at the rasikas meet in December.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 May 2011, 02:08

VKailasam,
With all the soukhyam that we experience, why do you say you want to take leave? You are an asset to have around...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 May 2011, 02:43

Mahavishnu, no... I do not like "food that hurts" and eat only the milder dishes.

Sometimes, music can hurt too.

venkatakailasam, on the subject of quitting, from this thread (which is what I thought you meant) or the forum (which I hope you didn't mean), I can only say, please don't.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 10 May 2011, 02:55

Nick, I wish I had the more balanced, sAtvic taste buds. I eat very un-sowkhyam food, which began with overcompensating for the lack of perceived flavour with chilli peppers when I first left the Indian subcontinent. These days I can't eat even rasam without pickles on the side, although I am trying to change.

Spices in moderation enhance the food, but in excess rob the food of its native natural flavours and become "irritants". Good, balanced food enhances well-being all around. This is very similar to sowkhyam in music.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 May 2011, 03:04

Ah, can't escape food and flavor, can we?
soukhyam then is hitam too (hita, idam, comforting), isn't it so?

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 10 May 2011, 07:57

Dear Venkatakailasam,
You are one of the members whose very sensible posts I look forward to.
If you leave I would be missing you.

Shivadasan

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 10 May 2011, 09:57

Mahavishnu, no... I do not like "food that hurts" and eat only the milder dishes.

Reminds me of a "Sarcasm101" (a "class" on Sarcasm) video, in which the teacher has assigned his students to sarcastically describe food in England. One of the answers is, "Boiling everything is a super-smart way to cook things!"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 May 2011, 19:52

Srikant,
It used to be that way. However, you can now get plenty of spicy and not just boiled food in England nowadays which surprises even Nick who goes there once in a while. Surprises me anyway, every time I'm there!

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 10 May 2011, 21:50

Are the words 'sukham' and 'soukhyam' related (i.e. do they have same root)?

PUNARVASU · Post by **PUNARVASU** » 10 May 2011, 22:23

sruthi wrote:Are the words 'sukham' and 'soukhyam' related (i.e. do they have same root)?

I suppose so; ''sukhasya bhAvam soukhyam'.

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 11 May 2011, 08:26

I was surprised to find that some of you enjoyed the autorickshaw version of Ganamurthe. I couldn't stand it.

Perhaps this proves the point made by a few here that soukhyam (like beauty) may be in the ear of the listener. Or at least a major aspect of it.

For instance, I cannot stand Yesudas' rendering of most Carnatic kritis, while some of my friends love his singing.

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 11 May 2011, 11:47

IMHO sowkhyam should not be misinterpreted for passiveness.

Some time back I had opined about an artist’s singing as lifeless.After a year I had posted a review of a concert of the same artist where I had praised them.But the Hindu reviewer had written their performance as a passive and lifeless one.So what do I understand?You require some sort of mental tuning yourself to understand what is sowkhyam and to experience it.

Even in our day to day life when people talk to each other they refer only material possession as sowkhyam.The conversation goes like this.

“Enna,Paiyan sowkhyama irukkAnA?(how is your son?)

“oh…bEshA irkkAn.Sondha veedu,car vAngittAn.piLlak kozhandha porandhirukku.mAsam 2 laksham chambalam..”
(doing well.owns house/car.got a son and draws salary of 2 lakhs)

But on close introspection we shall find that this is not the real sowkhyam since we don’t know the exact mental state of the man in discussion.

Coming back to music there are concerts where there is pleasure and there are concerts where there is bliss and there are concerts which are an admixture of both and may be I shall call that sowkhyam.

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 11 May 2011, 14:17

Sruthi wrote
“I was surprised to find that some of you enjoyed the autorickshaw version of Ganamurthe. I couldn't stand it. Perhaps this proves the point made by a few here that soukhyam (like beauty) may be in the ear of the listener. Or at least a major aspect of it.”

It appears that members had examined Ganamurthe against the comment “She has managed to murder this Thyagaraja composition.” And not whether there was sowkhyam.

This artist is not the one to be blamed for rendering Trinity compositions in an uninspiring manner. If she is to be blamed there would be literally hundreds of others who would have to equally blamed for rendering the compositions without any regards to the attitude with which the composer had composed them.

Who does not do it now a days ? As per the standards that exist at present her performance was acceptable. She added something more. She was enjoying every moment of her singing. This is a rare feature.

When a person has a set of excellent standards on music it is difficult to find a singer who matches them. Any rendition falling short of the standard would be an irritant to that person and therefore he would not be able to experience sowkhyam. Many high class rasikas are in this dilemma.

Yes, the fault is with the listener !

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 May 2011, 19:03

Shivadasan,
You said--"She was enjoying every moment of her singing." That's it!
When it reverberates in you, then it's a good musical experience. You are right. 'murdering the kruti' was the trigger to make us lend an even more sympathetic ear to her singing. She's not pretending to be a CM singer nor are we assuming that. I did have a look at a few of her other clips. Another of them had to do with CM, her father accompanying her on the mrudangam, and there, he steals the show!

Ganeshkant,
How true! In every day life, soukhyam questions often lead to such answers which have to do with mundane things. In music, call it bhakti, Sraddha or love. Unless the musician has it (for his/her art), it cannot translate into soukhyam for the listener. Unless the listener reciprocates it, it does not get enhanced. There are minor factors which come in the way like the mood (or circumstances) or the nature of that particular day both for the performer and the listener which may interfere with the anubhavam. Not opening up to new experiences is another factor.
A says, Z is excellent. You have to listen to her!
B does not care much for that school of music.
Listens anyway, but is not impressed (because of the school?).
C walks into the hall, not having a clue about her but likes her music.
Was it because she was good/not so good that we responded to her one way or the other?
In the end, does it matter, so long as we experience soukhyam at least in some of the music we hear?!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 11 May 2011, 20:32

Shivadasan: You make very good points.

Arasi, excellent set up with that A, B and C. That sets the basis for philosophy of the aesthetics.

This actually can be traced to something more fundamental. When we see something Red and Square, we naturally
expect everyone to agree with that since that is based on 'Cognition'. Can we apply it to the 'judgement of the beautiful',
so to say? We all instinctively do and get surprised when we find out that what works for 'Red and Sqaure' does not work for the 'beautiful'.

What is the difference?

The expression of a feeling with low cognitive content is highly subjective. The expression of feeling based on the re-cognition of an objective property of the external thing is highly objective.

"The judgement and experience of the beautiful" ( our subject matter here ) is a result of the interplay of both aspects. But the 'non-cognitive subjective' part predominates. That is quite understandable. So we would not get the same level of confirmation and concurrence from others like we get for the 'Red and Square'.

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 11 May 2011, 22:28

arasi wrote:You said--"She was enjoying every moment of her singing." That's it!

Arasi, I hope you are not implying that if the singer enjoys their own singing, that translates to soukhyam for the listener! By this standard, a lot of noise (e.g. rap music where the singer is having a great time) should also lead to soukhyam!
Surely that's not the case (I hope so!).