Winners and Losers

[jeevanraju]

Just returned from SA after attending the first three days in Cleveland. I was keen to take a look at all possible competitions after reading some earlier posts casting doubt on the process. Over all the competitions were held in honest spirit although certain happenings looked somewhat strange. The concert competitions were well argued by the judges although I don't see how they can allow a 23 year old adult who has been performing in India and US to compete with participants half his age. Is it for the application fee? I doubt. Perhaps there should be a criteria of selection. The same goes for the young violinist who has been hailed a prodigy and has performed extensively and yet participates in a contest meant for much junior artists. I also chanced to be in one of the mridangam competitions (junior category)where the judge was a senior mridangist from India and guess what, his student got the first prize although in many people's opinion he was far inferior to others. I also overheard some parents complaining that this senior vidwan was accosting the kids to change over from their present teachers and learn from him over skype. If this is true, it brings bad name to Cleveland and some attentions must be paid. It is better for the teachers to be away when their students perform.In the present set up it will look like the "losers" are the real "winners". Otherwise the overall impression was good.
Mr Sundaram also mentioned the dramatic increase in the number of contestants, something like 450. This must bring in enormous revenue and address some of their financial concerns.

[cacm]

Just returned from SA after attending the first three days in Cleveland. I was keen to take a look at all possible competitions after reading some earlier posts casting doubt on the process. Over all the competitions were held in honest spirit although certain happenings looked somewhat strange. The concert competitions were well argued by the judges although I don't see how they can allow a 23 year old adult who has been performing in India and US to compete with participants half his age. Is it for the application fee? I doubt. Perhaps there should be a criteria of selection. The same goes for the young violinist who has been hailed a prodigy and has performed extensively and yet participates in a contest meant for much junior artists. I also chanced to be in one of the mridangam competitions (junior category)where the judge was a senior mridangist from India and guess what, his student got the first prize although in many people's opinion he was far inferior to others. I also overheard some parents complaining that this senior vidwan was accosting the kids to change over from their present teachers and learn from him over skype. If this is true, it brings bad name to Cleveland and some attentions must be paid. It is better for the teachers to be away when their students perform.In the present set up it will look like the "losers" are the real "winners". Otherwise the overall impression was good.
Mr Sundaram also mentioned the dramatic increase in the number of contestants, something like 450. This must bring in enormous revenue and address some of their financial concerns.

THANKS FOR YOUR INVALUABLE INPUT.
1)PLEASE BELIEVE ME when I say CAC(CLEVELAND ARADHANA COMMITTEE) does not depend on revenue from the competitions for improving the finances of the festival. EVERY ONE OF THE MEMBERS is thanks to GOD quite well off financially- tho' they are not rich: My annual income of 75,000 dollars for example-& they are TRULY INTERESTED in the future of our art form& culture. I travel 2000miles to get to the festival& spend close to 5000 dollars to go to India EVERY YEAR.
2) CAC members believe that they are not experts. So they depend on the leading vidwans to be experts. I appeal & request any dissatisfied parent who complained to write me at [email protected] I promise to investigate whether the allegations
are true.\
Finally at age 77, I am not in this to either my reputation get tarnished or to make money.My rate for consulting is 1000 dollars/hour after expenses & I am not acceptiong any jobs!
lets be practical& talk about how to make things better in a PRACTICAL FASHION. VKV

[msakella]

Dear brother-member, jeevanraju, In general, everywhere, without any exception, the competitions in our Karnataka-music are being conducted in a monotonous manner bringing out the best of the bad lot only but neither to inculcate the knowledge of music nor to enhance their abilities in music to bring out the best of the good lot. More over, indiscipline intrudes into it in one way or the other degrading the true value and purpose of it along with reputation. Around 2000, for the first time in the history, I was able to conduct ‘Knowledge competitions in Karnataka-music’ at Hyderabad (for only two years due to financial constraints) inviting candidates from all over the State where 12 Govt. Colleges of Music & Dance have been serving the public since last 50 years. But, unfortunately, not even a single candidate from any of these institutions dared to appear for these competitions but only private candidates appeared and won these prizes. Whoever truly interested in inculcating the knowledge of music and in increasing the abilities of the candidates must conduct this kind of competitions only. I shall give the details of these competitions hereunder to be helpful for the interested persons. amsharma

KNOWLEDGE COMPETITIONS IN CLASSICAL KARNATAKA MUSIC

RULES & REGULATIONS

All the participants of these competitions should invariably sing/play along with the ‘Electronic Metronome’. At the time of competitions ‘Electronic Metronome and Electronic Automatic Tambura’ will be provided by the organisers. The candidates residing in the State of Andhra Pradesh and learning Karnataka Music pertaining to Vocal / Veena / Venu / Violin / Gotu / Nadasvaram / Clarionet could participate in these competitions. The competitions of any category will not be held unless there is a minimum number of three applications from the candidates and such details will be informed earlier to the respective candidates returning their entrance fee. Prior intimation in regard to the venue and time of these competitions will be sent to the participants.

SUB-JUNIORS: First prize - Rs.3000/-
Second prize - Rs.2000/-
Third prize - Rs.1000/-
Entrance fee - Rs.100/-

The candidates without exceeding 15 years of age as on the date of the competitions are eligible to participate in these competitions.

1. The candidates should render the Jathi-alankaras in Eka-tala - ‘k-t-t-k’, Rupaka-tala - ‘t-k | k-t-t-k’, Mathya-tala - ‘t-k-d-m | t-k | k-t-t-k’, Dhruva-tala - ‘t-k-d-m | t-k | k-t-t-k | k-t-t-k’, Jhampa-tala - ‘t-k-t-t-k-t-k | t | t ,’ , Ata-tala - ‘t-k , -t , | t , -k-t , | t , | t ,’ and Triputa-tala - ‘t-k-t | k-t | t-k’ which are furnished in the tracks from 139th to 145th of the mp3 CD, AMS-Easy Methods-2007, in the same order, in one Avarta each in the third degree of speed of 4-units of Chaturashra-gathi per Kriya per second i.e., Matra-kala at the first instance and later in another Avarta each at the rate of 3-units per second of Trisra-gathi. (k= ka; t=ta; t=tha; k=ki; d=dhi; m=mi)

2. The candidates, along with the beats of the left hand and Kriyas of the right hand of the Chaturashra-gathi Adi-tala at the rate of 4-units per Kriya per second i.e., Matra-kala, should render the three kinds of Jaati groups of Trisra, Khanda & Mishra and lastly the Khanda group in the end of each Avarta furnished in pages from 23 to 27 of ‘Sangita Svararaga Sudha (English)’ written by Akella Mallikarjuna Sharma.

3. The candidates should furnish a list of three Adi-tala Varnas consisting a minimum of 8
Avarthas in the Purvanga and sing/play consecutively both the Purvanga and Uttaranga of a Varna chosen by lottery among them at the rate of 4-units of Chaturashra, 6-units of Divya-sankeerna and 8-units of Mishra-sankeerna per Kriya.

4, Among the Muktayis furnished in pages 35 & 36 in ‘Sangita Svararaga Sudha’ the
candidates have to chose six Muktayis by lottery and among them three Muktayis chosen by lottery should be rendered in terms of Jatis of Khanda (5), Divya-sankeerna (6), Mishra (7) and Sankeerna (9) and other three of them chosen by lottery in terms of Svara of the same Jathis to any Kriti of the candidate’s choice.

JUNIORS: First prize - Rs.4000/-
Second prize - Rs.3000/-
Third prize - Rs.2000/-
Entrance fee - Rs.100/-

Candidates of the age between 16 and 25 years and the artists of not more than ‘B-grade’ of All India Radio of the same age group can participate in these competitions.

1. The candidates should render the Jati-alankaras in Eka-tala - ‘k-t-t-k’, Rupaka-tala - ‘t-k | k-t-t-k’, Mathya-tala - ‘t-k-d-m | t-k | k-t-t-k’, Dhruva-tala - ‘t-k-d-m | t-k | k-t-t-k | k-t-t-k’, Jhampa-tala - ‘t-k-t-t-k-t-k | t | t ,’ , Ata-tala-jathi - ‘t-k , -t , | t , -k-t , | t , | t ,’ and Triputa-tala-jathi - ‘t-k-t | k-t | t-k’ which are furnished in the tracks from 146th to 152nd of the mp3 CD, AMS-Easy Methods-2007, in the same order at the rate of 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 8-units per Kriya per second i.e., Matra-kala in one Avarta each.

2. The candidates, along with the beats of the left hand and Kriyas of the right hand of the Chaturashra-gathi Adi-tala at the rate of 8-units per Kriya per second, should render the three kinds of Jaati breaks of Trisra, Khanda & Mishra and lastly the Khanda break in the end of each Avarta furnished in pages from 23 to 27 of ‘Sangita Svararaga Sudha (English)’.

3. The candidates should furnish a list of three Ata-tala Varnas and sing/play the Purvanga of a Varna chosen by lottery among them at the rate of 4-units (Chaturashra), 6-units (Divya-sankeerna), 8-units (Mishra-sankeerna), 12-units (Mishra-deshya-sankeerna) and 16-units (Deshya-shuddha-sankeerna) per Kriya and Uttaranga at the rate of 4-units (Chaturashra), 6-units (Divya-sankeerna) and 8-unirts (Mishra-sankeerna) per Kriya.

4. The candidates should furnish a list consisting of one Sama-graha Krithi in each of the six Talas i.e., Rupaka, Trisra-rupaka, Chapu, Adi (medium-tempo), Adi (Slow-tempo) and Adi (Trisra-gathi) furnished in ‘Sangita Svararaga Sudha’ and sing Svara for three Muktayis chosen by lottery among each of the three kinds of Muktayis of three compositions chosen by lottery.

NOTE:- The decision of the Judges will be final and no correspondence in this connection will be entertained. The winner of the first prize will never be allowed to participate in the same competition again. The candidates abiding by these rules and conditions only can participate in these competitions. The copies of the application (xerox copies of applications are also allowed) could be obtained by sending self-addressed and stamped envelope and duly filled-in applications along with the entrance fee could also be sent to the address given below.


Last date for receiving the applications:

Dates of competitions:

[jeevanraju]

All I am trying to say the entire competition can be streamlined easily leaving little room for complaint. Some aspects that need attention were too obvious to be missed even by outsiders like me. I can imagine the frustration of the participants and parents. I agree the vidwans from Indian who act as judges are much knowledgeable in their trade. But recent opportunities like Skype classes have made a difference in how these vidwans are understandably using the competitions to create some business. I would really look forward to the organizers publishing the results of the survey they have circulated.

[kadaba]

I wanted to first of all say that our family enjoyed our second year of Cleveland Thyagaraja Festival! It was a memorable event in which adults and children both had a lot to take home thanks to a marvelous line-up of vidwans and vidushis! We look forward to next year eagerly!

With regards to the competitions, here are some suggestions on improving the overall experience for the contestants and judges. These are observations I made last year and my experience this year when my child competed in the Mridangam competition:

1.Competition levels and categories be defined based on years of training received instead of age alone. Teachers of contestants must sign their students competition registration forms attesting to the number of years of training claimed.
2.Ensure that judges who have students in any category either do not judge that category at all or at the very least, for their student an alternate judge is provided. This will provide for a fair judging platform and not discourage children who put in not only tremendous effort but who do not win despite performing equally or better than those declared winners.
3.Judges must provide written feedback on each contestants evaluation sheet that is shared with each contestant after the results are announced. Many of us take our children to Cleveland not to win but to get critical and precious feedback from vidwans and vidushis. Evaluation sheets must be shared with contestants.
4.Rules for each category must be clearly posted in more detail than presently done. Opportunity to review the rules before finalizing them must be given to teachers who are sending their students for the competition. This will ensure uniform interpretation of the rules. Teachers must be asked to review and sign to indicate that they have read the rules and understand it on behalf of their students. The coordinator of a competition must read out the rules at the start of the competition.
5.Winners in a category must move on to the next higher level next year even if they are under age. This will not only provide opportunity and encouragement to others but will also demand continuous improvement of the winners thus benefiting everyone in the long run.
6.Mridangam players depend on visible and audible talam especially in sub-junior and junior category. Judges MUST keep talam fairly and consistently for all contestants whether or not they are their students or not. If the judges are not able to do so due to jet-lag etc., then a neutral person, well-versed in Indian percussion must be arranged for keeping talam.
7.What a contestant performs in the competition must be public content and therefore, anyone should be able to video tape all contestants for the purposes of learning and self evaluation as long as they do not share others’ content on a public site. The registration form should contain this clause.
8.Children take Cleveland competition seriously, their commitment must be respected by making sure no one distracts the judges during a performance. Competition coordinators especially must refrain from engaging in a conversation with the judges during a participant's performance.
9.While it is good to allow some flexibility to accommodate those that have conflicts with multiple events, if a contestant does not show up for more than 3 or 5 call-outs of his/her name, then the coordinator must put that person at the end of the list and move on. This will not only expedite the process, it will also avoid frustration among those that wait patiently for their turn from start to finish!
10. (Last but not the least) Judges often get a very short break for lunch and/or tea/coffee. It is humanly impossible to judge efficiently for long hours especially considering that many judges are senior citizens and often jet lagged. Meaningful breaks must be provided to the judges.

[vasanthakokilam]

Kadaba: Those are very good suggestions for any competition. Makes sense.

Item #7, 'not to share in public sites' may be hard to enforce even with the clauses in the forms. I guess they took the alternate route. I heard over the webcast the request by organizers to videotape only their children's performance and not others. Hope that was followed for the most part. There will at least be some peer pressure if someone violates it. Once the competition is over and everyone goes back, it will be hard to have control over the recordings in the hands of children.

A better option would be for each parent to give permission for others to record their child's performance. Those parents who want to videotape another child for learning purposes can explicitly get permission from the other parent..This way the organizers can get out of this business of controlling and communicating the info. All they have to say is, record only your child's performance unless you have gotten permission from the other parents.

[Lakshman]

I hope VKV takes notice of these suggestions.

[ShrutiLaya]

A better option would be for each parent to give permission for others to record their child's performance. Those parents who want to videotape another child for learning purposes can explicitly get permission from the other parent..This way the organizers can get out of this business of controlling and communicating the info. All they have to say is, record only your child's performance unless you have gotten permission from the other parents.

An even better option would be, IMHO, for the organizers to broadcast the full competition a la "Carnatic Idol", and even post the performances on the Cleveland Aradhana website (or youtube, if space/bandwidth is an issue). This may end, for ever, the allegations of favoritism. As a matter of fact, the mere fact that these performances will be publicly available means the judges will be judged, so everyone will be on their best behavior. Of course, there were allegations of favoritism even for the Carnatic Idol program, so these won't go away. But now, everyone can judge for themselves if there was any merit to these accusations, instead of the "He Said - She Said" situation now. The competition itself would gain in stature from this!

- Sreenadh

[vasanthakokilam]

Yes, that will definitely be better.

[cacm]

I have been reading the posts& suggestions about the competitions. It is NOT OBVIOUS how to implement many of them but IF WE CAN FIND ENOUGH VOLUNTEERS ETC we can try to implement them. VKV

[mathe-kamas]

I am writing this now, for I do nothing right after an event, since it is more likely to be filled with anger, than facts. Given that it is fully one month since Cleveland Aradhana now, I believe it is time for me to write about this.

For all the seriousness with which the contestants go to Cleveland Aradhana, the judges do little to match that. I have heard of at least one case now, where there the judge did not score the contestants but insisted A, B, C get the prize. When the second judge asked for the scores, he was merely told that the first judge was senior in age/experience and hence knows better. BTW, I heard this from the second judge!

Secondly, in a kriti competition, the participants were told that there would be a common shruti-box used for all participants, just to save time. This was totally disregarded. One of the participants had an ipad with itampura in it. The judges hated that, asked her how come she did not get a "regular" shruti box along. After this, she might have as well got-off the stage. One of the judges went "paravailla po, padittu pottum" (meaning, let her sing anyway and get done with it), like "let me take a break, anyway she doesn't have the right shruti-box". While the girl sang her song and words correctly, she was told that she had the words incorrect all through out! This was simply untrue (parents had recordings + teacher could vouch that he/she had not taught that way/had never heard her sing that way). The same judges asked another girl to redo her pallavi line so that she could start the charanam on the beat (she had missed the beat on which to start the charanam) - the girl won first place.

Moreover, the mamis assembled at the competition behave as though from 50 yrs ago. As teens/tweens, it is more difficult to make the kids wear pavadais and daavanis, than hear them sing Carnatic music. The contest has no rules for dress code to follow. Yet, you will hear passer-by mamis comment every now and then as to how some girl is not dressed correctly. This rule almost never applies to participants of the opposite gender !

So, here are my suggestions for the committee:
1. Please have rules for what type of shruti box is allowed/not allowed.
2. Dress code might be helpful as well. If Pavadai-chattai/davani is the only allowed dress, please state that.
3. Scores/comments must be made public. This will not only make the judges take their job more seriously, but the participant will know what/why she was placed where she was.
4. If possible, there should be a single recording of all participation done by CAC, that could be used in case the judges want to go back and review or if there is any dispute.

Yes, judges decisions are final, but not unquestionable!

[mohan]

Secondly, in a kriti competition, the participants were told that there would be a common shruti-box used for all participants, just to save time. This was totally disregarded. One of the participants had an ipad with itampura in it. The judges hated that, asked her how come she did not get a "regular" shruti box along. After this, she might have as well got-off the stage. One of the judges went "paravailla po, padittu pottum" (meaning, let her sing anyway and get done with it), like "let me take a break, anyway she doesn't have the right shruti-box".

Some of the leading musicians use itanpura on stage so I am very surprised why this was not permitted. In fact, I think the sound quality from is better than some of the older model electronic tamburas. Perhaps the volume from the ipad was not loud enough?

[mathe-kamas]

That is correct. the volume was a bit low. However, it was very audible to most people in the audience. One of the judges though had her ears covered with ear-muffs, since Cleveland turned out to be colder than cold for this poor lady who I believe was traveling to Cleveland for the first time.

My only point is that they are allowed to object to anything (shruti-box, dress code, whatever) they want, but it should be stated as a rule up front, not thrown as a surprise.

[jeevanraju]

This thread has opened up some important topics for discussion. It is debatable if these issues be sent privately to the organizers. Since “open covenants openly arrived at” is a universal motto, it is not a bad idea to bring ideas and suggestions to the open so that they can be dissected by the public with the hope that some useful solutions will crystallize. In that light here are some thoughts. I am suggesting these based on my Management Professor’s advise “ You can always criticize ideas but not persons”

General observation

(1) It applies to all the organizations of all types and that is just saying “we are all volunteers and are doing a voluntary job” doesn’t give one the right to do a sloppy job. Either do it as well as possible or don’t do it.

(2) I gather from several quarters (audience, musicians, volunteers) that Cleveland Aradhana while it has a purported committee still is run by one person who makes all the major decisions as to who should get the awards, who should be invited etc. This is of no concern to people like me who don’t expect anything from the Aradhana, but it matters to musicians from India as well as NA. It will be nice to make the process a bit more clear and transparent.

Now regarding the competitions

(1) I have read that in all competitions and auditions for orchestra jobs, western classical musicians sit behind a curtain and the judges identify them only by a number. They can always confer with the contestant across the curtain. Until recently western orchestra was man’s territory especially with instruments like Tuba. There are stories where judges selected an auditioning contestant and were stunned when the curtain went up and they saw a lady seated! Of course they were selected and went on to enrich the orchestra for many many years.

Does this all mean this is the model for competition in KM? Perhaps not. But in regards to Cleveland, some facts are undeniable.

(2) The number of contestants are increasing every year and it is likely that the trend will continue.

(3) The number of contestants and their parents make up a very large fraction of the audience spectators which will again continue to be so. This explains why there is a huge exodus from the scene after the prizes are announced on Sunday afternoon.

(4) Handling the vocal section is perhaps the toughest challenge in view of the sheer number.

(5) A useful first step will be to have an elimination round. Participants may be asked to send digital versions of their skills to a panel of judges within NA. There are enough musicians in every category in NA to make up such a panel. The panel need not even meet in this electronic age but can individually rank order the contestants they evaluate and submit it to a main individual. This panel should maintain confidentiality and at the same time the confidentiality of the participants should also be maintained towards the panel members.

(6) In cases where there is ambiguity or borderline scores, those submissions can be viewed by a small team in India.

(7) The elimination process should narrow down the list to a size that can be comfortably handled in Cleveland following some of the suggestions made above i.e. teachers do not judge their own students etc.

(8) Now is another tricky part. If the list of those who are eliminated in the elimination round is announced, I am sure very few of them will show up in Cleveland. The solution of announcing the finalists in Cleveland a day before the competition is somewhat unfair in view of the cost involved for participants and family to travel and stay. At the same time announcing it a month before will clearly show how many are coming to Cleveland just to take part in the competition and not for the whole experience.

(9) I personally feel there is no need to give lavish cash prizes to the concert winners. All the Indians who come there are rich enough to make a trip to India. The Aradhana can of course help them find good slots in sabhas whenever these artists visit India. The money is best spent on improving the competition by making it more professional. One suggestion is to make the process of judging attractive and responsible by compensating the judges. For Indian judges cash is the best option but for NA based judges, if they are concert level performers, they should be accommodated in respectable slots during the Aradhana. This will ensure multiple performances by accompanists do not happen as is the case now.

[viswanathmysore]

Secondly, in a kriti competition, the participants were told that there would be a common shruti-box used for all participants, just to save time.

Yes. They could have only one veena , one flute , one violin on stage - would save more time . If all were asked to sing in the same pitch , could save on other instruments too.

And then give the prize to the kid who would not accept ANY of these rules .

[harimau]

The losers are those who are putting up suggestions on this forum! :devil:

[jeevanraju]

[quote][/quote]The losers are those who are putting up suggestions on this forum!

At 70 I am not interested in any competitions nor am I capable of participating in one. But I feel I can still get a prize if I take classes from a Chennai based teacher who also is a judge!
Jokes apart, what applies to Cleveland also applies to other organizations in NA. But Cleveland is often a prototype and hence used as an example.
The problem arises when volunteerisim is combined with professionalism. Let the whole thing be on a voluntary basis. The organizers as they are be volunteers, let the participants be volunteers. There will be no complaint. But when volunteers involve professional musicians and also get into professional activities like contests and competitions, problems crop up. Musicians are unhappy with the treatment they receive, participants are unhappy with the process and so on.
Since the competitions are the biggest attractions in Cleveland, they should devote half of the event for that and half for performances. That gives enough time to organize events at least semi professionally.

[Nick H]

At 70 I am not interested in any competitions

At 40, I won a prize in a music competition! Category: Over-18, beginners.

Actually, there were three of us in the category, and we all exceeded 18 by one or two decades.