Bhavam in CM

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Shivadasan
Posts: 251
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 07:52

Bhavam in CM

Post by Shivadasan »

In the articles below the value of ‘bhavam’ in music as against grammer and gymnastics is being dealt with. It is interesting to note that the veterans still rue the loss of Bhavam in the music of modern youngsters.
Shivadasan

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2011/05/27/stor ... 250100.htm
Article "Music by meter, sans sensitivity " by RANEE KUMAR
“There is no music sans feeling. We believe in experiencing the bhava of the kriti”
Since the term song is itself emotion-centric, it is rather immature to evaluate the import of a lyric. If the singer believes in glossing over these vital elements of the heart and plunges into complexities of contrived music, well, it sounds like sawing dead wood to the ear.”

D. Seshachari adds, “There is a bhavam in sangeetham, in the raga lakshana as we call it which is embedded in the string of swaras. To extricate this emotive quality that runs within the syllables, you need genuine knowledge. The bhavam (feeling ) in sahityam is far more clear as there are words to describe it. Music does not begin and end with alapana, manodharma, neraval, and so on, not to underestimate their significance in the greater scheme of things. Lyric/sahityam strengthens sangeetam. It is a heritage, a treasure trove bestowed upon us by our great vaggeyakaras in the hope that we protect it with care and concern; not destroy it in the name of experimentation with other aspects of music. With the onslaught of other than traditional music taking over our younger generation like an avalanche, let us not lose whatever little ground we still hold by distorting feeling and sahityam and making music unintelligible to the aficionados.”

http://www.hindu.com/fr/2011/05/27/stor ... 360300.htm
Annavarapu Ramaswamy
When it comes to some youngster rendering the kriti as per the notation, all that you can hear is a ruthlessly broken flow of the lyric with no soul whatsoever. There are no questions asked,” he laments. He adds as an after thought, “it is necessary to keep the grammar intact, but not at the cost of feeling and meaning.”

Dhanavendra
Posts: 49
Joined: 18 Nov 2008, 16:16

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by Dhanavendra »

Bhavam in music is as good as breath is to life. Dhyanam is meditating on the breath and bhakti i is meditating on the bhavam. Both are ways to realise existence in its purest state.
Carnatic music is more commerce now-a-days and commerce and bhavam generally do not go hand in hand. It is the Sabha Secretary's duty towards Sabha members to find artists who apart from talent also have bhavam in abundance. But they only depend on sponsors words who have more commercial interest than any other interest. Sponsors weigh only popularity because that makes coffers click. Rasikas and Sabha members are also happy with popularity for prestige sake if not for music. The irony is that not all popular artists are bhavam specialists. I am not saying they don't have bhavam at all. That would be a atrocious statement. However not all renditions are bhavam soaked. Gulab jamun must be immersed in sugar syrup. If a portion is out of it, the taste is not as sweet!
Members should grill their secretaries for December selection. Secretaries don't even perhaps consult members for their opinion and have their whims and fancies. They also complain of pressures from various sources during selection for December season and yet many of the Secretaries are reluctant to step down due to this outside pressure and not be a party to such pressures. They indeed seem to enjoy being where they are. Thus if we are bold enough to look beyond the super popular coterie of young and younger artists and standard sponsors, may be we all will discover some artists whose rendition take us on the path to the Ultimate for which Carnatic Music was really intended.

bala747
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 12:56

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by bala747 »

Bhavam is a lost art, and we can't blame any particular artiste for it. Our tastes have changed to put a greater emphasis on other aspects of music. The hardest element to grasp and the most unique element of our music is being lost, and that is the price we pay for the evolution of music.

vasanthakokilam
Posts: 10958
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Dhanavendra, what is your description on what bhAvam is? Can that be described in, say, 20 or less words or a few sentences at most?

srikant1987
Posts: 2246
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by srikant1987 »

VK,

I recently cleared my blog off with a note and a new post. One of the posts in it was titled "Musicians' musician". Probably the only one which should have probably been left behind. ;) :(

Anyway, that was about how, as we learn an art, we begin to view it differently, more as a critique than as a rasika. I cited one of my friends as an example, who learned a considerable deal about working out graphics on a computer, and has tremendous insights into geometry and optics. He says that he doesn't enjoy some computer games as much as he used to, since he now tries to look for how the graphics in them was brought about etc.

A game will have to be really superior for a person like him to be brought down to relishing it just like other gamers. People making such games will be a game-maker's game-maker.

People who make such music that even those well-versed in music just get absorbed in it like other listeners, they are musicians' musicians.

That music will have to be technically perfect to suppress the critique within the knowledgeable. And then it needs to have something more. That is bhAvam.

Technical perfection, at least in the context of CM, is more a process of removal than of addition.

Nick H
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by Nick H »

All craftspeople must learn their art and craft with discipline. They must practice technique until it hurts. It doesn't matter whether it is carpentry, cooking, dance or music.

I'm sure some would say that even the mastery of technique is a lifetime task. How many musicians wake up one day and say, "Oh good' I can stop practising now, and just express myself?" However, there is a point where the expert may take liberties with the technique.

Whilst there may be a handful of naturally-gifted (for want of a better word) who seem able to produce fine work without ever having paid much attention to technicalities, mostly (I am still speaking of arts and crafts in general, music being just one) those who go for feeling without a basis of technique just produce some nasty mess.

On the other hand, there are those for whom technique seems to be either the goal, or perhaps it is a limitation. There are genres of music where technique seems to be all, such as some of the more intellectual forms of jazz and modern [western] classical music. it is all the performers and the audience desire. Despite the very high intellectual content of carnatic music, I do not believe that more than a handful of rasikas would be happy of the music ended with that.

vasanthakokilam
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Interesting take Srikant. And you have expressed a fairly complex idea clearly. What you say is true. I would even say that it is a curse to be that game-maker since it robs oneself of some simple pleasures. Those are the necessary losses. And it is no walk in the park for the performer either. To be unmindful of those game-makers in the crowd and do their thing to the best of their ability and creativity of the moment.

On that topic, I have a question. I can not convert a melody to swaras. I have been trying to develop it, with only miniscule success so far. My simple goal is to play some of my favorite old film tunes on the flute and then may be some CM without referring to notes. I am bowled over every time I listen to violinists when they shadow the vocalist. I probably can put in a lot of effort and get a little bit better at that. My question to those of you who can mentally map melody to swaras. Am I messing up my enjoyment of carnatic music? Currently, I go by the overall raga bhava and not by swaras. Will I then be thinking swaras when I listen to alapana and krithis? Or you all can switch off the tendency to map to swaras and enjoy the melody in its entirety?

Nick, when I read your post, I was reminded of the 20,000 hour rule. That is, it is necessary to spend that much time deeply in an area for it to be part of your system. Even then it is only a necessary condition and not a sufficient condition. At least, that is the theory. I still have my doubts about it but to a certain rough approximation there is some truth to it.

Dhanavendra
Posts: 49
Joined: 18 Nov 2008, 16:16

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by Dhanavendra »

Vasanthakokilamji
"AHAMBHAVAM illatha" rendition is a sure way to "BHAVAM kalantha" rendition
Carnatic music is a bridge between Cosmic intelligence and individual intelligence
Bhavam is the vehicle that enables merger. What is the barometer?
Anything which does not attempt to merge with the cosmic intelligence
and melt the individual intelligence back to the Ultimate Cosmic source
is not BHAVAM

In 11 words there is the essence
In another 11 words there is the connectivity to the Ultimate
In further 11 words there is the mode and the need for a test parameter
In the next 11 words, the test parameter is highlighted
In the last 11 words, the purpose of sticking to bhavam is emphasised.
Hope this answers your question.

I forgot to answer one more question. Thats the reason why the EDIT
Why 11? EKADASI is the key to transformation in one's life i.e from mundane existence to divine existence
Rudram is the paste which binds us in body, mind and intellect and causes "rodhana" i.e 'dhuka'
Ekadasi Rudram is to go beyond body, mind & intellect. In music, Bhavam is beyond this ordinary realm of body,mind & intellect. Bhavam cannot be intellectualised like the techniques and other written representation of the abstract.

srikant1987
Posts: 2246
Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by srikant1987 »

I would even say that it is a curse to be that game-maker since it robs oneself of some simple pleasures. Those are the necessary losses. And it is no walk in the park for the performer either.
VK, actually I made this blog post I think about two years ago, and it actually included a note cautioning people learning something about this -- at that time I felt that with caution, we could probably retain our ability to enjoy as well as learn. Now, however, I think you are absolutely right! And that is especially because of the need to "strip away" the inessential (the cheap?) in the quest for technical perfection. To disapprove of the inessential is natural when you put in effort to learn that it is inessential, and to remove it away from yourself.

Nick, I don't mean the "technical" as "technique"+al. Maybe I should have said grammatical? That will also give a crude "writing" analogy... CM grammar is subtler and lines dividing the correct and the incorrect are thinner. Or maybe it's just that we all are more familiar with language anyway. ;)
My simple goal is to play some of my favorite old film tunes on the flute and then may be some CM without referring to notes. ... Am I messing up my enjoyment of carnatic music?
VK, alas I was already able to by and large play music by listening before I had the "musician's musician" idea, so can't help. However, my enojoyment of music has become a lot narrower since the post (like I said, I couldn't help it), so I tend to view it just a first step -- and hazard answering you with a "no, you aren't". The plus point is, it has also become keener!

Shivadasan
Posts: 251
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 07:52

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by Shivadasan »

Vasanthakokilam wrote “Will I then be thinking swaras when I listen to alapana and krithis? Or you all can switch off the tendency to map to swaras and enjoy the melody in its entirety?”

I have been fortunate in moving very closely with families training their children in music from childhood. As we know, all of them start with Saralivarisai. I was surprised to find that, particularly those learning instruments, did not attach any importance to the sahitya. They would even identify the kriti by its opening phrase of swaras rather than the words !

I suppose that once you are introduced to swaras you can never get out of it. The case of first impression. Whatever you listen, you would try to find out the swaras behind it. If you learn a little of grammer it becomes even worse. You try to find fault with the musician for not falling in line with grammer.

Bhava comes out in full measure in the alapana portions and in some places in the kriti. I am not sure whether bhava comes out that much in swaraprastara. I suppose that for enjoying swaraprastara in its full measure, knowledge of both swara and layam would be required

In my case I fell in for bhava ever since I was introduced to CM. I was led to believe that music was the way to God. And so bhava became very important to me. When I tried to convey the importance of bhavam to some of the musically well versed children of those families they did not show much interest. Speed and clarity were more important to them. Even though they did not realize the importance of bhavam, their performances were praised by public as full of bhavam. I also noticed that when they attended concerts they were very excited about the vidwat part of the music and while listening the portions of music that was drenched in bhava they felt only that it was ‘nice’ . They could not enjoy the music as much as I did.

There is one more angle to it, psychologically speaking. Perception of swaras are through thought forms and while you enjoy bhavam you are bereft of thoughts, rather self absorbed.

ganeshkant
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Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 11:59

Re: Bhavam in CM

Post by ganeshkant »

We have a lot of foolish notions like if you go deep into music technically you can't have bhavam.I think it is a farce.What about the singing of BMK,KVN,etc.

I used to have a lot of arguments with my elder brother on this many a times.In our ashram Our Swamiji used to tell me to sing with bhavam and he also tells me this doesn't mean the basic raga lakshanam can be distorted or taken for granted.Because there are a few devotees who sing this way - closing their eyes with chocked voices and tears in eyes and lose their attention on ragam & talam;shall we call it Bhavam? On those occasions our Swamiji uesd to look at me meaningfully nevertheless he asks any devotee to stop singing.He will listen to all.

I sing with more bhavam when I sing just for myself and when no one is around me.Means when you sing for others even a single person in front of you will have a toll on your bhavam. There are musicians who have transcended this and they are the gifted ones for e.g TMK.Many a times he forgets himself while singing and I have heard this has happened to KVN many a times.i.e going deep in to self absorbtion and the music will melt you.

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