"Sowkhyam" in music - What is it?

smala · Post by **smala** » 11 May 2011, 22:32

Oh, don't sweep away all rap - some of it is pretty nice and interesting.

veeyens3 · Post by **veeyens3** » 11 May 2011, 22:56

In a layman's parlance, "Sowkyyam" is what you feel when you want to linger while your companion is urging you to leave lest you miss the last bus home

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 12 May 2011, 02:07

shruti,
I should have said: she seems to enjoy singing it and I did too, listening to it. Mind you, I didn't say I would like to listen to her singing CM for three hours!

veeyens,
Yes, you are reluctant to get up and go away--even after three hours of music, you want to hear more of it.

bhavarasa · Post by **bhavarasa** » 12 May 2011, 22:50

Sowkhyam: (n) The state in which the mind is while listening to Semmangudi sing "cEtah shri balakRSNam".

Synonyms: Pattammal singing Balagopala
DKJ singing Jambupathe
KVN singing kaligiyuntE
Krishna singing Amba Neelayadakshi

Antonyms: Aruna Sairam singing "mAdu mEkkum kannA"
Kadri playing "tandanA"
Kunnakudi playing "sObillu"

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 12 May 2011, 23:30

Can we call it Sowkhyam if the performer lulls you to sleep

(... and if the other Rasikas don't wake you up by chatting or loud clapping

)

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 13 May 2011, 00:16

cmlover wrote:Can we call it Sowkhyam if the performer lulls you to sleep?

Depends entirely on... what you dream about!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 13 May 2011, 00:55

probably a nilambari

kamalamba · Post by **kamalamba** » 13 May 2011, 03:40

Sowkhyam can also be classified broadly as

1. in which the presentation of the sahityam that the listener understands fully generates the "sowkhyam effect"(Harikatha does it most effectively; also kritis like KaNa vEndAmO without any Ragam, Neraval, Swarams sung by people like DKJ can evoke this response) and
2. in which the presentation of a particular ragam or presentation of a neraval or kalpanaswaram moves the listener. One of the most enjoyable experiences I had in the last week in this category is by TM Krishna, doing Nereval in the line "kanCi kAmAkSi" from O JagadambA (a commercially available tape called Ananda Bhairavi").

Kamalamba

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 May 2011, 04:29

At the minimalist level,

A well tuned tanpura sound is sowkhyam filled - level 1.

Then a voice/instrument that aligns perfectly with the S and P to add more timbre to the overall sound takes it to level 2.

Then add a perfectly in tune Ga (G3) to it. Wow! Level 3

Then the songs. They better take the sowkhyam to level 4 and beyond.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 13 May 2011, 04:39

VK
There are seven levels (corresponding to the 7th heaven) !

vs_manjunath · Post by **vs_manjunath** » 13 May 2011, 05:38

kamalamba wrote: kritis like KaNa vEndAmO without any Ragam, Neraval, Swarams sung by people like DKJ can evoke this response) Kamalamba

Have heard this song sung by KVN- a sheer bliss in deed. U r referring to this sung by DKJ ? being a fan of DKJ- I would like to listen to DKJ's version. Can u pl provide audio link ??

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 13 May 2011, 09:34

bhavarasa wrote:Sowkhyam: (n) The state in which the mind is while listening to Semmangudi sing "cEtah shri balakRSNam".

Synonyms: Pattammal singing Balagopala
DKJ singing Jambupathe
KVN singing kaligiyuntE
Krishna singing Amba Neelayadakshi

Antonyms: Aruna Sairam singing "mAdu mEkkum kannA"
Kadri playing "tandanA"
Kunnakudi playing "sObillu"

I think you are confusing concepts.

While deviating from grammar and tradition is an irritant (a major one for the "faulty rasikas" as Shivadasan puts it

), probably a wider definition is intended.

I'm very sad my "measure" post got dissolved in venkatakailasam's goodbye note and bland food...

Yes, we need some restraint and discipline over and above grammar for saukhyam. The performer should themselves "feel" the music and employ some negative feedback for the effect. Or they should get and use good cues from accompanists and audience.

You have no instrumental synonyms and two instrumental antonyms. Unfair.

And thanks to Vasanthakokilam.

Let me add some... Sri Trivandrum Venkataraman's mundu venuka. Smt Kalyani Ganesan's vENugAnalOluni. RKSK's akShayalinga vibhO. Sri Kalyanakrishna Bhagavatar's kAmbhOji

KS's angArakam AshrayAmi (suruTTi := saukhyam anyway).

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 13 May 2011, 10:16

Hey, what did I do?

btw, I do like your examples/selections. I have a few more instrumental sowkhyakarthas in addition to the ones I had already mentioned earlier in this thread.

What do you mean by 'measure'? 'Measured' as in a certain nidhAnam?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 13 May 2011, 10:40

I find 'soukhyam' in listening to the the mrudangam, where the artiste blends and enhances the music provided by the vocalist or instrumentalist - lifting up the whole concert experience. Many artistes are capable of doing this and just some that come to immediate mind are UKS, TKM, VR, MAE and KVP.

kamalamba · Post by **kamalamba** » 13 May 2011, 11:50

Manjunath, I have a DKJ recording of a Papanasam Sivan Day Concert, held in 70s/80s (not sure). This was one of the tapes handed down from person to person with no other information. I will try to MP3ize it and send you a link.

Following up mohan's post on sowkhyam listening to mridangam,

personally, I find the point in the kriti, especially in anupallavi where the Mridangam (even better if there is a upapakkavAdyam) blends in very softly, generates that "sowkhyam effect"

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 13 May 2011, 17:51

And make it a soothing khanjari for me for an upa pakka vAdyam! As for mrudangam, it was a season of MAE for me (also, I've been listening to his playing for vocalists of all ages at Cleveland!) and yes, while there are other excellent mrudangists, his music matching music is such an agreeable thing to my ears.mrudhu angam!

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 13 May 2011, 19:02

arasi wrote:shruti,
I should have said: she seems to enjoy singing it and I did too, listening to it.

And I can't listen to her 'singing' even for 10 seconds.
I suppose soukhyam is indeed subjective.
Another example: a friend of mine enjoys opera music a lot. She closes her eyes and goes into a blissful state.
While I simply can't stand it.

Cultural background, the kind of music one have been exposed to, etc come into the picture too.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 13 May 2011, 19:31

You are right arasi
a solo by a mridangist (e.g., PMI) can exude extreme sowkhyam though the rest of the concert can be extreme asowkhyam.
For me Mali was the pinnacle of sowkhyam when he was in the right mood!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 14 May 2011, 19:38

sruthi,
Your friend and I've something in common. I like operas too.
You are right. Cultural background and what you're exposed to does come into the picture.

CML.
Yes, 'mODik kiRukkudaDi talaiyai' moments of Mali. Listening to Subbudu was sukham...

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 16 May 2011, 01:19

See the discussion on Rajesh veena here: http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... 74#p197774

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 16 May 2011, 01:33

Sruthi,
All I can say after listening to it is: aDa asoukhyamE! (Gosh! This is the very opposite of soukhyam). Bombardment is what it is ;(

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 16 May 2011, 20:23

Similar to soukhyam, another aspect is that of 'Sokam' (sadness) in music. You do hear that aplenty in various renditions.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 16 May 2011, 20:55

Punarvasu neatly explained the derivation of the word sowkhyam as
sukha + yat = sowkhya sukhasya bhAvaH
Perhaps another useful word to be coined is
shOha + yat = shOhya shOhasya bhAvaH
( the state of being in grief or dejection)
Perhaps many performances do indeed induce 'shOhyam'.
Though performers may not relish it the currency of this neologism can add to our
vocabulary in CM

Shivadasan · Post by **Shivadasan** » 17 May 2011, 07:08

Listened to Rajesh Vaidya's Chrukesi.
It is Tamil if it is "Shukku Molagu Tippili".
But when it become "Shukkumo Laguti Pili" can it be Tamil ?
It is an insult to our Shastras and our Carnatic rasikas to identify a concoction of notes as a Carnatic classical raga.
They say the artist was enjoyinng his performance.
What he was enjoying was not the raga but perhaps his feeling "What a genius I am !".

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 17 May 2011, 07:32

Shivadasan,
Suk kumi Lagu tippili --however disjointed they sound, make a healthy medicinal compound for ailments--with ArOgyam in them--but this is A!rOgam

So, what we hear is shOhyam ;(
I didn't venture beyond that chArukESi...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 17 May 2011, 07:44

It was PulikEsi (as it occurs in Kalki's Sivagamiyin Sabhatam)

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 17 May 2011, 09:51

I think everyone's being very cruel to Rajesh Vaidya. Maybe saukhyam is just not his goal with music

I find his control over the veena very impressive, going by youtubes. That said, I've never attended his concerts, and don't plan to do so in the near future either.

bhavarasa · Post by **bhavarasa** » 19 May 2011, 21:28

@Srikant - No, I really am not biased against instrumentalists, though I can see why one might think so, given that 2 out of 3 examples were that of instrumentalists.

Generally speaking, I think the Sowkhyam element was missing in many leading vocalists pre-independence. Maybe it was because they had to sing with a full-throated voice to make up for lack of mics OR it was just the norm those days. Chembai, Alathoor Bros were all good but Sowkhyam was not necessarily their goal, I guess.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 Jun 2011, 21:26

Here is an example of music sans sowkhyam of any kind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGdfwlNNjbk

Apologies to those who have seen this already for making you watch it again.

But, what were they even thinking?

veeyens3 · Post by **veeyens3** » 09 Jun 2011, 21:51

What is the classification for S.Balachander's veena playing? It is not only asowkhyam but belligernt too

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 09 Jun 2011, 22:14

Sri Veeyens: I would rate S Balachander very highly on the sowkhyam scale. See this piece for example, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRYdQZo_L8A

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jun 2011, 01:02

Mahavishnu,
Can't agree with you more. We heard BMK sing at Cleveland this May and how beautiful he sounded! This is atrocious

Thanks for SB's snatches of yamunA kalyaNi. Made my day...

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 Jun 2011, 02:42

mahavishnu wrote:But, what were they even thinking?

Exactly the words that I have been looking for to describe many of these attempts. How can reputable musicians even give this the time of day. Why don't they just say, "excuse me, but that would be a very silly thing to do?"

To be honest, if the first part had been a fusion performance with an black American artist, it might have worked. I actually like the idea --- but not this fake pretend-Caribbean thing.

As to BMK's subsequent contribution, it was no better and no worse than any of these English-note etc etc etc light- melody space fillers --- as long as one put any expectation of classical music out of one's mind.

If BML wanted to sing a nursery rhyme ...I guess I'd probably enjoy it more than anyone else singing a nursery rhyme.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 10 Jun 2011, 04:26

Nick,
Your "Excuse me, but that would be a very silly thing to do?" said it all

And you made me think a minute. If you isolate BMK's singing from this ruckus and listen to it, it isn't bad. He was attired the best too. Yes, even a nursery rhyme from him is bound to please. I like to listen to his 'train stops routine', after all!
Ah! And we do know your

for the English Note item. To this day, no one that I know has brought the same spirit to it as MMI.
Seriously, such fusion attempts do not help in popularizing CM.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 10 Jun 2011, 08:39

veeyens wrote:(on SB) It is not only asowkhyam but belligernt too

Well, I don't particularly like SB, but if we closely watch, "belligerence" is something we can also associate with <gasp> TRV, KS & TNK -- also TVS, SSI, MS. In a way, an instrument (or our voice) stands between us and our music, and we should make it a bridge rather than a road block -- sometimes by waging a war over it.

Some force needs to be exerted over the vocal chords or the instrument to get the required azhuttham and impact.

Radhika-Rajnarayan · Post by **Radhika-Rajnarayan** » 10 Jun 2011, 10:03

Srikant1987,
I too, when I was a teenager and in my early 20's, used to dislike Balachander for his harsh plucking ( having been used to Emani's style). Later, with maturity, I realised that the 'belligerence' conveys a particular mood, and the soft and meditative playing, another mood. And I learnt to appreciate all the moods of the various artistes. MDR's deep enjoyment of a simple Darbar varnam, MMI's playful enjoyment of the 'Note', MSS's bhakti in every one of her kriti renderings, Emani's multifarious moods within an item, MSG's taut excitement, Lalgudi's exploratory appreciation of every phrase, -- I could go on and on.
Isn't this what all art is about? And if the artist is able to convey his/her mood to the audience / viewer, it shows the success of that piece of art.
Don't you agree?
Soukhyam is one of the moods that CM can convey. It is not the only one.
For example, the nadaswaram Mallari is by no means soukhyam-generating music. It is vibrant, energetic and I would say, depicts veera rasa. Nata ragam itself is like that. Gambheeranata too.
And so on.
Each person looks for a particular mood-genration in CM - I look for soukhyam after all the stress of the day. Someone else may look for another mood -and CM is wide enough and deep enough to accommodate all of them!

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 10 Jun 2011, 11:38

My first ever listening to CM was in 1977 when we were in Vickramasingapuram.A neighbor of ours had a beautiful collection of stalwarts of those times;but I took a liking for only BMK since that only appealed to me at that age (11-12 yrs,I was)whereas my father listened to MMI,SSI,Muisri,etc.But one day my father asked me to listen to MMI and when he started singing svarams for kamalAmba in kalyani I suddenly started liking him for the pronunciation of ni as li a very strange reason you all may think.

And as I advanced in age,I started knowing that good music need not be glossy and even a hoarse voice can give me sowkhyam if your search is for pristine music and not vanity.I used to rush to hear TMT,BRI,etc in the 80's for the same reason.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 11 Jun 2011, 02:19

Radhika,
You say it all so well. No surprise there

Yes, can sowkhyam be called sukham--in the sense, music pleases us in its various moods--even the robust (billigerent?) mood? I agree with you and Ganeshkant that we grow with our music appreciation, give in to those changes as we hear more music from more artistes. Just as some musicians are rooted in their traditional ways and yet add their own ways of expression, we listeners have our own brand of preferences in listening to music which we are willing to bend. We keep our minds open for anything which is innovative which does not violate our own sense of appreciation. I don't know how many others will agree on this!

sruthi · Post by **sruthi** » 11 Jun 2011, 02:29

This is soukhyam at its best: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pWh8uA9wyA

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 11 Jun 2011, 03:01

mahavishnu wrote:Here is an example of music sans sowkhyam of any kind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGdfwlNNjbk

Apologies to those who have seen this already for making you watch it again.

But, what were they even thinking?

I may be putting myself in the extreme minority here by asserting that I actually enjoyed the piece. Nothing wrong with the sowkhyam here. There was no dissonance, the voices (including the rap and konnakkOl) were well modulated, there was even an attempt at harmony at the end, what's not to like! I could talk more about this but I will desist.

Full disclosure: I have learned mridangam from Shri THS in a previous life but I can say honestly that my thoughts would have been the same regardless.

-Thenpaanan

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 11 Jun 2011, 03:19

sruthi wrote:Similar to soukhyam, another aspect is that of 'Sokam' (sadness) in music. You do hear that aplenty in various renditions.

Right on! Especially when it is unintentional.