Mrudangam playing vs Mrudangam hitting
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Svaapana
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Where/ when does the percussionist stop playing for a song? Along with the main artiste or end with their own thirmanam(s)? In many of the recordings where PMI and PSP have accompanied the likes of SSI, MMI, GNB they stop precisely with the vocalists. Modern persussionists however, prolong the ending a bit. I will appreciate if some one can explain the difference between the two methods and their significance. Thanks in advance.
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srkris
- Site Admin
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Dreamer,
Please use proper language even in disagreement with something. We are not bound to listen to rants, whoever be the ranter, and such posts that do not maintain a minimum level of decorum are liable to be deleted. In more severe cases, members are banned.
You will find that you have some company for you in your thoughts, since we have a large membership, but not in the way you express it.
Please use proper language even in disagreement with something. We are not bound to listen to rants, whoever be the ranter, and such posts that do not maintain a minimum level of decorum are liable to be deleted. In more severe cases, members are banned.
You will find that you have some company for you in your thoughts, since we have a large membership, but not in the way you express it.
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laks1972
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That is the problemMusicfan wrote:.......at times he gives long pauses in between which is difficult to comprehend,.........
The rasikas nowadays think that mrudangist should keep playing always. Listen to stalwarts PMI, UKS, PSP and you will hear many long pauses. I have aheard that in ME also while accompanying MLV. Pauses enhance the beauty of accompaniment. Due to current trend of non-stop playing, unnnecessary fast speed etc etc, such subtle things are forgotten
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Nick H
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Being told something is not the same as understandingMusicfan wrote:On lound sound by some mridangists, I am given to understand that some of them go to the Sabha secretary or the Mikeman and tell them to increase the volume once concert starts and this leads to loud volumes and this is definitely not fine - naturally this gives way to long banging from sound perspective by default.
Even if what you have been told is true, you have failed to grasp the reason.
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dreamer
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What was wrong with my language. Pl be specific. You can go ahead & remove my membership. It hardly matters to me.srkris wrote:Dreamer,
Please use proper language even in disagreement with something. We are not bound to listen to rants, whoever be the ranter, and such posts that do not maintain a minimum level of decorum are liable to be deleted. In more severe cases, members are banned.
You will find that you have some company for you in your thoughts, since we have a large membership, but not in the way you express it.
erode 14 wrote
In korvais there is silence between phrases and it is a traditional practice to lift ghatam in the air and get it back when the next phrase of the korvai occurs. for intance, if 'tha' and dhi are played and they have a pause in the middle, the ghatam will be on air in the rest and the sound which is got while catching it back sounds along with 'dhi'..
Sorry sir. I can't swallow such things. To me it is a cheap stuff in a classical CM concert. It hardly matters to me who all have done it.
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cienu
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I presume srkris alluded to the statement above.dreamer wrote:
Rubbish
Sukanya & the Mridangist (I don’t know the name) did this in Visaka Hari prog at MA. She threw the Gatam in Tani. She could have done (Edited by me)
Sukanya is a very respectable lady and to ask her to do something as ridiculous as above , for throwing the Ghatam in the air during thani (FYI - This is a fine art and Vikku Vinayakram had done this in the UN concert of MSS in 1966), reflects very poorly on yourself.
PS: Subsequent to dreamer's clarification # 58 , I have edited this post of mine suitably
Last edited by cienu on 30 Dec 2009, 22:06, edited 1 time in total.
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cienu
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Sorry Sir, This is just not on. Better learn to express yourself better. In spite of your very provocative posts, Erode had explained his point of view in a very logical way. I think the way you put across your views and tone are extremely important in a public forum.dreamer wrote:
erode 14 wrote
"In korvais there is silence between phrases and it is a traditional practice to lift ghatam in the air and get it back when the next phrase of the korvai occurs. for intance, if 'tha' and dhi are played and they have a pause in the middle, the ghatam will be on air in the rest and the sound which is got while catching it back sounds along with 'dhi'.. "
Sorry sir. I can't swallow such things. To me it is a cheap stuff in a classical CM concert. It hardly matters to me who all have done it.
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dreamer
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I re-read the post and understand that certain portions of it were obviously offensive. It was never my intention for those words to be translated in a literal context. Nor was it an attempt to malign anybody's character personally. But I can see now, that it is a loose comment.I sincerely apologize to Smt Sukanya and the rasikas. The post was merely an opinion on music-with a horrible analogy used to express my displeasure with a certain aspect. Kindly delete the post if possible.
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Rasika911
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Then the problem is with you and not the artistes or the rasikas. I suggest that you do not attend concerts in which such artistes are playing in the future.dreamer wrote:What was wrong with my language. Pl be specific. You can go ahead & remove my membership. It hardly matters to me.srkris wrote:Dreamer,
Please use proper language even in disagreement with something. We are not bound to listen to rants, whoever be the ranter, and such posts that do not maintain a minimum level of decorum are liable to be deleted. In more severe cases, members are banned.
You will find that you have some company for you in your thoughts, since we have a large membership, but not in the way you express it.
erode 14 wrote
In korvais there is silence between phrases and it is a traditional practice to lift ghatam in the air and get it back when the next phrase of the korvai occurs. for intance, if 'tha' and dhi are played and they have a pause in the middle, the ghatam will be on air in the rest and the sound which is got while catching it back sounds along with 'dhi'..
Sorry sir. I can't swallow such things. To me it is a cheap stuff in a classical CM concert. It hardly matters to me who all have done it.
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rajaglan
- Posts: 709
- Joined: 29 Dec 2006, 21:34
dreamer wrote:I re-read the post and understand that certain portions of it were obviously offensive. It was never my intention for those words to be translated in a literal context. Nor was it an attempt to malign anybody's character personally. But I can see now, that it is a loose comment.I sincerely apologize to Smt Sukanya and the rasikas. The post was merely an opinion on music-with a horrible analogy used to express my displeasure with a certain aspect. Kindly delete the post if possible.
Dreamer,
You can edit the post which ever way you like. And those who quoted it also can edit.
Sukanya is a highly respected artist in Blore circle. Especially where the gadam Dept , is domianted by men, she is
an accomplished player. And it is not all uncommon to see that act in concerts.
I agree on your idea of mini-thani on songs that you mentioned.
Last edited by rajaglan on 30 Dec 2009, 21:04, edited 1 time in total.
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kadambam
- Posts: 104
- Joined: 12 Jan 2007, 04:10
An interesting write-up in Hindu.
http://beta.thehindu.com/arts/music/article72804.ece
Arun remarks, "Knowing every sangati in ‘Dharini Telisukonti' will help you to fill in, but to make it evocative, you must know how the raga flows. Sahana is not the same as Suddhasaveri."
http://beta.thehindu.com/arts/music/article72804.ece
Arun remarks, "Knowing every sangati in ‘Dharini Telisukonti' will help you to fill in, but to make it evocative, you must know how the raga flows. Sahana is not the same as Suddhasaveri."
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VISHNURAMPRASAD
- Posts: 149
- Joined: 08 Jul 2005, 11:52
Am tempted to post my view here though there are enough exchanges some healthy and some unhealthy. As a follower of concerts and Mridangam for the past 28 years and one who learnt to play the instrument for more than a decade this is what I have observed :-
Once learnt the techniques of playing Mridangam thoroughly and have had enough practise i feel there would be enough flow of thought for the artiste to exhibit his talent. However in a concert there are lots of factors that induces the artiste to play louder at times (I bet no body can play louder for a long time as it takes lots of energy out to hit that hard continously, imagine the Sivaji Ganesan effect in the film Mridanga Chakravarthy... where he will start bleeding out of his hands and mouth
).
Jokes apart, let me explain my observations on the factors that influence a Mridangam Vidwan in the stage :-
1. Voice range of the Vocalist (Differentiate between a BMK senior and TVS!)
2. Vocalist's style of singing Krithis, Neravals and Swaras (If it is more subtle sangathis like Nedunuri or strong emphasizing sangathis of DKJ, or Pure Sarvalaghu oriented singing style of MMI)
3. The accoustics of the concert place. If the Mridangam artiste has enough feedbacks of his own playing including Gumkhis and subtle Nadais then he would be more comfortable playing. Otherwise he might have to use his strengths at time to emphasize certain phrases to get a feel of it.
4. The Sound System : I have observed many times the difference between a knowledgeable Sound man who sits and adjusts the volumes of each mike accordingly (there are very few falling in this category where the artiste never have to worry about the feedbacks) and there are Sound men who are just "Sound" men doing their electrical bit and just turn the volume to the whims of the singer/voilinist/percussionist, the audience or the sabha organiser
5. The enthusiasm and feed backs of the singer before, during and after the concert: If the vocalist wants heavier beats (may be due to feed back issue also or just wants a weighty solkattu to be used to add gait to his singing), the percussionists understand and play accordingly.
6. No or zero feedback from the audience during or after the concert on such issues: As a faithful rasika, we all just observe what happens in the concert and then come out with our own conclusions about the artistes playing. I would suggest we have an open mind to interact with the artiste (whereever possible) atleast after the concert and give his feedback if he feels it is sensible to do so!
IMHO the intension of all the artistes (or atleast 99% of them is to give their best to the success of the concert, after all this is one profession where the artiste carry out their job with utmost care to the satisfaction of the main artiste thereby giving a wholesome effect. I feel it is unnecessary to blame a particular artiste by concluding that he/she plays just to create "NOISE".
With respect to Ghatam Throws, it was just a part of the enthusiasm of the artistes while playing thani avarthanam which had brought only applauses so far. I have never seen any absurd reaction from the main artistes nor the audiences so far. Ofcourse there was no overdoing by any artistes so far as i have been observing.
At this juncture i would like to salute all the carnatic musicians and rasikas and wish them a great year ahead! Let there be pure enjoyment (first and foremost) and healthy criticisms contributing to the growth of talents through this great assembly of rasikas!
Namasthe.
Once learnt the techniques of playing Mridangam thoroughly and have had enough practise i feel there would be enough flow of thought for the artiste to exhibit his talent. However in a concert there are lots of factors that induces the artiste to play louder at times (I bet no body can play louder for a long time as it takes lots of energy out to hit that hard continously, imagine the Sivaji Ganesan effect in the film Mridanga Chakravarthy... where he will start bleeding out of his hands and mouth
).Jokes apart, let me explain my observations on the factors that influence a Mridangam Vidwan in the stage :-
1. Voice range of the Vocalist (Differentiate between a BMK senior and TVS!)
2. Vocalist's style of singing Krithis, Neravals and Swaras (If it is more subtle sangathis like Nedunuri or strong emphasizing sangathis of DKJ, or Pure Sarvalaghu oriented singing style of MMI)
3. The accoustics of the concert place. If the Mridangam artiste has enough feedbacks of his own playing including Gumkhis and subtle Nadais then he would be more comfortable playing. Otherwise he might have to use his strengths at time to emphasize certain phrases to get a feel of it.
4. The Sound System : I have observed many times the difference between a knowledgeable Sound man who sits and adjusts the volumes of each mike accordingly (there are very few falling in this category where the artiste never have to worry about the feedbacks) and there are Sound men who are just "Sound" men doing their electrical bit and just turn the volume to the whims of the singer/voilinist/percussionist, the audience or the sabha organiser
5. The enthusiasm and feed backs of the singer before, during and after the concert: If the vocalist wants heavier beats (may be due to feed back issue also or just wants a weighty solkattu to be used to add gait to his singing), the percussionists understand and play accordingly.
6. No or zero feedback from the audience during or after the concert on such issues: As a faithful rasika, we all just observe what happens in the concert and then come out with our own conclusions about the artistes playing. I would suggest we have an open mind to interact with the artiste (whereever possible) atleast after the concert and give his feedback if he feels it is sensible to do so!
IMHO the intension of all the artistes (or atleast 99% of them
is to give their best to the success of the concert, after all this is one profession where the artiste carry out their job with utmost care to the satisfaction of the main artiste thereby giving a wholesome effect. I feel it is unnecessary to blame a particular artiste by concluding that he/she plays just to create "NOISE".With respect to Ghatam Throws, it was just a part of the enthusiasm of the artistes while playing thani avarthanam which had brought only applauses so far. I have never seen any absurd reaction from the main artistes nor the audiences so far. Ofcourse there was no overdoing by any artistes so far as i have been observing.
At this juncture i would like to salute all the carnatic musicians and rasikas and wish them a great year ahead! Let there be pure enjoyment (first and foremost) and healthy criticisms contributing to the growth of talents through this great assembly of rasikas!
Namasthe.
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srikant1987
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mridhangam
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Sivaramakrishnan
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See an ideal Mridangam vidwan in Trichur C Narendran. Did anybody hear him accomapanying Sreevalsan Menon at Academy on 26 Dec? I was again lucky to listen him play for Jairaj-Jaisree Veena Chamber concert @ their Manadaveli residence on 02 Jan.
He has played for almost all Vidwans - but not a showman!
And Sri Cheluvaraj (Bangalore) who played for Parassala Ponnammal at MA morning session also impressed many.
And going back to the (so called) golden era of carnaticmusic, You would notice that separate mike was not given for the drum - still we got the the best.
He has played for almost all Vidwans - but not a showman!
And Sri Cheluvaraj (Bangalore) who played for Parassala Ponnammal at MA morning session also impressed many.
And going back to the (so called) golden era of carnaticmusic, You would notice that separate mike was not given for the drum - still we got the the best.
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devan_l
- Posts: 51
- Joined: 14 Mar 2008, 14:16
Re: Mrudangam playing vs Mrudangam hitting
Dear friends,
After perusing through all of the earlier posts in this thread, I felt that as a young mridangist, I would share my thoughts too. Having listened to many concerts thus far, both archived recordings and live concerts, it is quite obvious to note that the style of mridangam playing has evolved from the time of stalwarts such as Palghat Mani Iyer and Pazhani Subramania Pillai.
One must understand that change is inevitable and growth on the other hand is intentional. The style of mridangam playing has changed due to many aspects many of them owing to developments in the actual drum itself and audience appeal. Mridangists of the more recent generations have had to develop their own unique styles to increase their impact, sustainability and capacity to serve a wider audience. This however does not sway away from the fact that it is the mridangam artists responsibility to draw the line between what is aesthetically pleasing/embellishes the main artist, and that which disturbs the collective sound of the concert.
A fine example of such a mridangist, is Mannargudi Easwaran mama. It is not often that one finds an artist who is versatile enough to adjust his style/power according to the concert. Easwaran Mama plays for the music and not for himself, and has many a time heightened the concert with his remarkable ability to cradle ones journey through a concert. His unique playing style is embellished by the virtues that stem from temperament, poise and fine musical awareness. He is able to adjust his tone and sound according to the main artists volume through his crisp fingering techniques and though he is a mathematical wizard, he believes that one should not overpower the main artist, but instead encourage them to explore different swara patterns without confusing them with your own! Easwaran Mama is always aware of the fact that the mridangists opportunity to show their technical and creative prowess is in the tani avartanam. Many a time though, he goes the extra mile as to base his entire tani avartanam around the swara patterns/korvai sung by the main artist. This is an example of spontaneous brilliance.
There are many other mridangists who share a similiar view to the style in which they play for different artists. I believe that one of the talents of an artist is his or her ability or versatility to adapt ones style according to the situation.
However, I am quite certain that the reason many of today's artists "bash" or "bang" is to be "heard", considering there is so much of competition in the percussion fraternity today. One has to "stand out" so to speak.
Just a thought I wanted to share!
Best,
Devan
After perusing through all of the earlier posts in this thread, I felt that as a young mridangist, I would share my thoughts too. Having listened to many concerts thus far, both archived recordings and live concerts, it is quite obvious to note that the style of mridangam playing has evolved from the time of stalwarts such as Palghat Mani Iyer and Pazhani Subramania Pillai.
One must understand that change is inevitable and growth on the other hand is intentional. The style of mridangam playing has changed due to many aspects many of them owing to developments in the actual drum itself and audience appeal. Mridangists of the more recent generations have had to develop their own unique styles to increase their impact, sustainability and capacity to serve a wider audience. This however does not sway away from the fact that it is the mridangam artists responsibility to draw the line between what is aesthetically pleasing/embellishes the main artist, and that which disturbs the collective sound of the concert.
A fine example of such a mridangist, is Mannargudi Easwaran mama. It is not often that one finds an artist who is versatile enough to adjust his style/power according to the concert. Easwaran Mama plays for the music and not for himself, and has many a time heightened the concert with his remarkable ability to cradle ones journey through a concert. His unique playing style is embellished by the virtues that stem from temperament, poise and fine musical awareness. He is able to adjust his tone and sound according to the main artists volume through his crisp fingering techniques and though he is a mathematical wizard, he believes that one should not overpower the main artist, but instead encourage them to explore different swara patterns without confusing them with your own! Easwaran Mama is always aware of the fact that the mridangists opportunity to show their technical and creative prowess is in the tani avartanam. Many a time though, he goes the extra mile as to base his entire tani avartanam around the swara patterns/korvai sung by the main artist. This is an example of spontaneous brilliance.
There are many other mridangists who share a similiar view to the style in which they play for different artists. I believe that one of the talents of an artist is his or her ability or versatility to adapt ones style according to the situation.
However, I am quite certain that the reason many of today's artists "bash" or "bang" is to be "heard", considering there is so much of competition in the percussion fraternity today. One has to "stand out" so to speak.
Just a thought I wanted to share!
Best,
Devan
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krishna32
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 28 Apr 2011, 17:49
Re: Mrudangam playing vs Mrudangam hitting
Hi all
People who don't know the art of playing Mridangam please dont use the Word 'Hitting' the Mridangam and that too saying Sri Tiruvarur Bhakthavalsalam is hitting the Mridangam.
Could the guy who said this about the great maestro play or atleast try to reproduce any of the Theermanams or Korvais in real !!!!!!!!
Somebody has to stop this.
Regards
Krishna
People who don't know the art of playing Mridangam please dont use the Word 'Hitting' the Mridangam and that too saying Sri Tiruvarur Bhakthavalsalam is hitting the Mridangam.
Could the guy who said this about the great maestro play or atleast try to reproduce any of the Theermanams or Korvais in real !!!!!!!!
Somebody has to stop this.
Regards
Krishna
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Nick H
- Posts: 9472
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
Re: Mrudangam playing vs Mrudangam hitting
It did stop.
Now there is every chance that you will have started it again
Now there is every chance that you will have started it again
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thathwamasi
- Posts: 274
- Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:15
Re: Mrudangam playing vs Mrudangam hitting
As Nick said, this had stopped and I have no intention of starting this again. But I just find the above comment unfair - How can one expect the guy who commented on Shri. Bhaktavatsalam's playing, to play like Bhaktavatsalam? As a rasika, he has the right to have an opinion and express it as well. Yesterday I shouted my lungs out abusing Sachin when he got out, after playing extremely watchfully. Does that mean that I need to first score 99 centuries before I can criticise him? I think the same applies here.krishna32 wrote:Hi all
People who don't know the art of playing Mridangam please dont use the Word 'Hitting' the Mridangam and that too saying Sri Tiruvarur Bhakthavalsalam is hitting the Mridangam.
Could the guy who said this about the great maestro play or atleast try to reproduce any of the Theermanams or Korvais in real !!!!!!!!
Somebody has to stop this.
Regards
Krishna
Whilst I am not saying anything about anybody's playing (I have been following this thread for long and I enjoyed it. But I have not shared any of my views cos I am a huge Palghat Mani Iyer fan and my views can be very biased.), I just feel that people can criticise a musician (even though they cannot play as well as the musician) as far as it is not unparliamentary.
Thanks
T