carnatic tabla

[cookmex]

What is your opinion on playing carnatic style phrases on tabla. ¿Could this bring more fans to tani avartanams?

[thanjavooran]

Cookmex avl,
Excellent clipping. I agree with you. Definitely such progrms will attract more rasikas . But one important item is to be taken care. Either the exits are totally closed or rasikas are shackled with seat belts during thani. BTW who are all purcussion Artistes?
Thanjavooran 04 09 2011

[cookmex]

8)

Percussion artists are:

mridangam: Satish Kumar
kanjira: Amrit
tabla: Karthikeyan

[Nick H]

I tend to associate tabla in carnatic music with those arrangements where they take a veena, a violin, a flute and a vocalist, and usually the percussion for this carnatic-Lite will be tabla. That does not appeal to me at all.

It's probably unfair of me to allow that to prejudice me against tabla in carnatic music generally, but I am afraid that I have done. The sound is just not right. For me, of course: others will feel differently.

As for increasing those with an ear for the thani, in the first place, I wonder what they have against mridangam, and in the second, I am afraid that the problem is with any kind of percussion solo. Cookmex, does your musical experience stretch to rock concerts? If so, then ... how quickly does the bar fill up when the guitarists put down their instruments and the drummer gets into his stride?

[mri_fan]

I think there is definitely room for it. In the 90's, LGJ and GJR toured with Ramabhadran and Zakhir Hussain, and from the recordings I have of that, the concerts sound fantastic. Admittedly, Zakhir Hussain is the best tabla player ever...so it would figure...I think as long as the tabla player has been trained in carnatic music it's acceptable...on his upcoming tour, Kadri is touring with B. Harikumar, Kanyakumari, and a tabla player.

There are also several mridangam players who can play tabla as well (Anoor Ananthakrishna (Shivu), Anantha R. Krishna come to mind.

Here's an interested video clip with Anantha Krishna on tabla for Abhisek Raghuram.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywBgl4N5UPw

[cookmex]

edit

[vasanthakokilam]

mri_fan: Thanks for that link. That is so illustrative of the topic at hand. Abhishek's singing is awesome and so are the accompanists.

I think the sadinchane illustrates both aspects of where the tabla works and where it may not work that well. ( This is not about the two two percussion artists, both players are highly competent. )

( one general note: Listen to that youtube link with a headphone and not through the laptop speakers )

In general, mridangam playing for the vocals and tabla playing for violin works. That provides the necessary variations in timbre to keep things interesting and dynamic.

When Tabla first enters at samayAniki tagu mATal(A)DenE with the vocals, the transition from Mridangam to Tabla did not go too well with me. But after that, they alternated using the (vocal-Mridangam), (Violin-tabla) combination and that worked wonderfully. Tabla has that naturally sound which is immediately attractive to any listener and it is usually captivating. And Anantha Krishna's change in speed towards the end of each passage was excellent.

One place where the match up was better in favor of vocal-Mridangam is the Charanam 'harE rAma candra raghu kul(E)Sa' ( starting at around 8:32 ). Abhishek really projects his voice ( and singing prowess ) there in a dynamic fashion and the mridangam matched quite well with a lot of bass sounds. What I call as match is in terms of playing for the inherent laya of that passage and also matching Abhishek's dynamism. Exactly the same thing is played by violin but not with that much gusto and tabla accompaniment for that sounded just fine. But if the same tabla patterns were played for the Abhishek's singing the match-up would not have been that good. But I do not know how differently Anantha Krishna could have played had he played for that specific vocal passage on the tabla.

The next one, Mukhari/Narayana Theerthar, was fine with both Tabla and Mridangam. May be Tabla has an edge there given the laya of that song. In fact, when Mridangam entered after the tabla, the mridangist seemed to first play the tabla-like patterns. The next one DeepaLi/Meera worked very well with Tabla.

[Nick H]

Ahhh, Cookmex... jugalbandi and Abhishek Raguram... I like neither!!!!

That is not strictly true. Jugalbandi has huge scope, and can be magnificent when it is truly a conversation. Usually it is not. What happens is that a Hindustani musician sings some HM, with some support from a carnatic musician, and then a carnatic musician sings some CM with support from the hindustani musician. At best, it is taking turns, and at worst, it is domination of one by the other.

One notable exception in my experience of the past few years is Shashank's collaboration with a sitar player whose name escapes me. They truly play together and produce magnificent music. I think has been good stuff involving BMK too. Perhaps it is a pre-requisite that the carnatic musician should be of a stature/character that cannot be bullied. It is also probably counts for a great deal that the musicians actually want to work together, rather than being combined by an organiser's desire to have two big names on their poster!

In fact, one aspect of where jugalbandi often fails for me is that the tabla and mridangam tend to stick to their own "side." In a true jugalbandi, the percussionists are as involved as the other artists, and each should mix their involvement with the CM, the HM and with each other.

Tabla has that naturally sound which is immediately attractive to any listener and it is usually captivating.

s/Tabla/mridangam/

... a technical joke. It means substitute mridangam for tabla in the line

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick, you 'sed' it, so be it!

I definitely agree with you on the substitution. But Tabla even when played in an ordinary fashion seems to be attractive to the mass audience without too much initiation. I do not know what technical reasons contribute to that. I have seen this in a couple of occasions. One such occasion is a laya-concert by kids for a predominantly non-cm audience involving mridangam, tabla, konnakkol and western drums. The audience thought the tabla kid did extremely well (along with the western drums kid). I can see why they perceived it that way. That has nothing to do with any sophistication or technical correctness or complexity. The tabla sound was clear and sharp even while playing the basic lessons.

[Nick H]

(No point in trying to vi with you on the technical jokes, I see . I can get awkward, though, but, as you might have noticed, I don't do perls of wisdom! , sh! )

You and cookmex are right about tabla having some sort of general appeal

[vasanthakokilam]

Nice ( you know your priority ). All those tools very near and dear to my heart, they are the Sarali Varisai of my professional career. Our references are known to a vanishing breed even in the geek circles.

Invariably the discussion on tabla and mridangam gets us in to Jugalbandhi. Here is one that showed up in Youtube as a related clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgYVN5L3DJU&NR=1 ( Lalgudi and Amjadh Ali Khan, Simhendramadhyamam ). As Nick said, the percussionists stick to their own kind and not mix which is the norm but it would have been interesting had they mixed.

[Nick H]

Interesting. Stuff like that certainly has spectacle appeal!

(VK, good to know you are a Unix bod. I should have known. It's something about the sense of humour )

[sr_iyer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgYVN5L3DJU&NR=1 ( Lalgudi and Amjadh Ali Khan, Simhendramadhyamam ). As Nick said, the percussionists stick to their own kind and not mix which is the norm but it would have been interesting had they mixed.

It can be seen that such an 'exchange', involving both combinations, is performed between 21:07 and 24:02

[duff777]

I tend to associate tabla in carnatic music with those arrangements where they take a veena, a violin, a flute and a vocalist, and usually the percussion for this carnatic-Lite will be tabla. That does not appeal to me at all.

Sir, you don't like the tradition.

Thus when the Academy was inaugurated on August 18, 1928, Naina Pillai who gave the first performance under its auspices, had to make do with one violinist - Madras Balakrishna Iyer and one mridangam artist - Ayilur Akhileswara Iyer. It must have been a rather strange concert for Naina, for he was a man used to a full bench of nine accompanists for his performances.

[Nick H]

That is not tradition: it is history. That's the difference between something ongoing and something that one happened, or used to happen.

I wonder what the instruments would have been? I wonder what the sound would have been. Not, perhaps, the populist, tinkling "carnatic-lite" to which I referred and which I am sure you have heard. That is what I don't like. It is not an inevitable result of the number of instruments, or of the inclusion of tabla, as the accompaniment to many dance performances might witness. It is, however, a regular formula.

[smala]

Was anyone able to play youtube link in post # 1 ?

Comes up empty - says "video is private" !

[duff777]

No, smala.
Uploader has blocked it.