Mridangam and the Nobel Prize

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 05 Oct 2011, 00:03

I saw this while reading about the announcement of Nobel prizes in physics for 2011.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44765718/ns ... e-science/

mri_fan · Post by **mri_fan** » 05 Oct 2011, 02:02

Could you explain what you mean? I read the article, and have no idea how it's related to mridangam.

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 05 Oct 2011, 02:16

Mod: Thanks for deleting the first post. The link mentioned there has no relevance to the post. The one I have posted now should be fine. I was fascinated to see a mridangam kept behind the Nobel Laureate!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 05 Oct 2011, 04:30

I wish some one could throw some more light on this Nobel Laureate and his connection with Mrindangam

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Oct 2011, 05:18

My naive attempt at asking google with 'Saul Perlmutter mridangam' or 'Saul Perlmutter rhythm' did not yield any connections

Now, let us see if we can use the Uday-Cienu techniques to figure this out.

So far, I have this.

"as he poses with his daughter's telescope at his home in Berkeley, Calif...after hearing he had won".. So it is in his house and it was there today... The photo was taken by Paul Sakuma of AP. I tried finding his email id but not successful so far. My guess at his email id did not work. The author of the article is from Stockholm so he was not there at the house. Search is on..

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 05 Oct 2011, 06:57

"Saul Perlmutter, winner of the Nobel Prize for physics, poses with his daughter's telescope 'at his home' in Berkeley, Calif., Tuesday, Oct. 4, 2011 after hearing he had won" -I believe the use of the word 'at his home' is contrary to your assumption.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 05 Oct 2011, 07:22

If the entire universe is speeding up, then what is a little "OTTam" by mridangam artistes?

And yes, there is a mridangam behind Perlmutter!

That would be second Nobel laureate in physics with some connection to the instrument (the first being CV Raman)!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 05 Oct 2011, 08:32

>If the entire universe is speeding up, then what is a little "OTTam" by mridangam artistes?

Now I have the perfect excuse. It is not me, it is the universe! Thanks Prof. Perlmutter

His email box is probably flooded now, but I have sent him a note congratulating him and asking him about the Mridangam. I will update if I get a response.

smala · Post by **smala** » 05 Oct 2011, 21:21

sureshrtuticorin · Post by **sureshrtuticorin** » 06 Oct 2011, 10:01

My search yielded this:
https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~rkirshner/ ... mutter.pdf
The search continues.....

sureshrtuticorin · Post by **sureshrtuticorin** » 06 Oct 2011, 10:32

He teaches Physics and music:
http://www.studio360.org/blogs/studio-3 ... out-music/
http://lsdiscovery.berkeley.edu/detail_ ... entity=330

The search continues....

fduddy · Post by **fduddy** » 06 Oct 2011, 13:34

Saul Perlmutter was in India on vacation in 1989 and travelled widely. When in TN he happened to attend some classical concerts with his family and was fascinated by the sound of the instrument. He picked up one from a shop in Mylapore and lugged it to his country which is in the bac drop of the photo in the link.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 06 Oct 2011, 14:37

There is a deeper connection indeed . Thank you Rkrishnamurthy
read on
Ever the innovator, Perlmutter also worked with the College of Letters & Science to rejuvenate the undergraduate course “The Physics of Music.” The successful class, taught by Perlmutter, attracted several hundred students.

http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2011/10/ ... llent-day/

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 09 Oct 2011, 08:35

RKrishnamurthy wrote:I was fascinated to see a mridangam kept behind the Nobel Laureate!

Except I don't think it's a mridangam at all

. It's probably a khol or one of those "lesser" drums from folk music.

Here's the evidence:

A mridangam is symmetric (i.e., the left and right side have close to identical diameters) and has about 16 anchor points for the leather straps. The instrument in the picture has a much more "dense" array of leather straps than any mridangam I've seen. Also, it seems that the portion that's resting on the floor has a somewhat larger diameter than the top. This all fits in a drum like a khol, which has evenly spaced leather strap anchor points on the side with the larger diameter but they all get bunched up and crowded at the other end.

There's also an exposed portion of the drum where the straps have been separated, which exposes a well-finished reddish surface which is rare in a mridangam but common in a clay based khol.

v-k, my advise, google "khol" and you shall be rewarded

.

Moral of the story:
The world is not Carnatic-centric

.

smala · Post by **smala** » 09 Oct 2011, 11:04

Re. post #14 -

I had made a post #9 saying the drum in the pic was that of a "mridanga" or Khol used in Iskcon temples and found more commonly in N.East India.

Since no one cared for the post I subsequently deleted it. Thanks for affirming the point I made earlier but now that someone with authority has vetted it perhaps it will be taken seriously.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Oct 2011, 14:49

Since no one cared for the post I subsequently deleted it.

???

I saw your post, thought, "that's probably right: I didn't think it was a carnatic mridangam either." The only reason I didn't post was I have no knowledge of the hari krishna instrument. Don't think we don't "take you seriously" just because of a lack of specific answer. All posts on a thread are part of a conversation.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 09 Oct 2011, 21:34

Mala,
I saw your post too and thought, yes, it looks different from a mrudangam. Since I don't know much about Indian drums and their sructure (add to it the arrival of new-fangled mrudangams), I kept quiet.

Uday,
Thanks. vaSishTar vAyAl...

Folks,
Those who are disappointed with its not being a mrudangam, take heart. Perhaps last year's Nobel laureate 'does' have a mrudangam at home and plays it too! Ram would know, perhaps

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 09 Oct 2011, 23:38

and, smala, just in case my post sounds a little curt, it wasn't meant to --- I mean quite the opposite: to assure you that your posts are valued, even if not explicitly replied to.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 10 Oct 2011, 06:56

smala
Had I seen your deleted post and observed that people were "ignoring" it by continuing the discussion on the presumption that it's a south Indian mridangam, I would have certainly responded. Of course, there's no guarantee that I'm right but I think I'm open to being corrected whenever I'm talking nonsense

.

I only saw this thread (and website!) yesterday after a long break so I missed your post.

Anyways, some clarifications:

1) The Hare Krishnas in north America use something called a "Balram mridanga" which is similar to the Khol of N.E. India, except there are no leather straps. Also, the membranes on the sides are probably made of some synthetic material as opposed to animal hide used in south Indian Mridangams.

2) The drum in the picture is a variation of the standard khol/mrindanga in the sense that it is a little more gracefully shaped than the ungainly "double cone" type of construction of the standard khol/mridanga.

I suspect that it was made by some talented India-yoga-hare krishna type of hippie in the bay area, which is chockful of them. In fact, the future of Indian musical instrument making may lie in their hands, given that all musical insturment makers in India, especially south India have practically disappeared. Hare Krishna !

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 10 Oct 2011, 08:17

>The world is not Carnatic-centric

.

True.. Let us get India centric then

My search with khol did not produce anything either. I saw another news article about this nobel prize by the Berkeley News center. It gave the impression that the authors were in the house on that day. One of authors is the manager of communications for the Physics department. I have emailed him. Leaving no stone unturned on this important research topic!

Uday, you did not disappoint with that type of analysis.

Few more forensic things just for fun. The instrument is a bit out of place, isn't it? It is not put away in a corner, it is in the middle of the room. It is almost as if it was used the previous day and kept there.

He was posing with the telescope which is his 8 year old daughter's telescope. There is a chance that it is his daughter's which is unusual as well.

The carpet seems more like an outdoor carpet which implies that this room is a porch type of thing which also matches the place where one will keep a telescope. But what is a khol/mridanga doing in a porch? Does it make too much noise when playing, it has been pushed out to the porch? Does that give a clue as to what it is?

Or, that is a hardwood floor with a nice floor rug. ( on second look, that is what it looks like ). Then we are talking an inside room. Then the above line of thinking is out. But it is a room with not much furniture. Why would that be? May be that is a bhajan room where a few hare rama hare krishna folks assembled the previous evening for a singing session. Hmmm.....

More questions than answers and therein lies the fun.

fduddy, is that your theory or you actually know that to be true?

smala · Post by **smala** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:03

Balram mridangas are fiberglass drums, no strings at all. Yes, these are used in kirtans in Iskcon and are popular.

The other, the multi- stringed clay drum, more traditional looking one (producing softer sounds compared to the more booming sound of fiberglass) as in the pic earlier in the thread - is the (khol)mridanga that is also used in Iskcon temples.

Will post pics of both tomorrow from the temple here.

smala · Post by **smala** » 10 Oct 2011, 10:18

Balaram, fiberglass mridanga
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IyZ07wW ... re=related

a 7-year old ? playing the fiberglass Balaram mridanga.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGAe6E_7 ... re=related

the same fiberglass Balaram mridanga, with amplifiers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmmzNuNG ... re=related

The khol-mridanga, traditional many-stringed clay drum, N.E. type with a nice short lesson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpqIMeeb ... re=related

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 10 Oct 2011, 15:51

smala wrote:the multi- stringed clay drum

I would recommend the use of the term "strap" or "leather strap" rather than "string" when describing drums. For example, the vina is a "multi-stringed" instrument but drums have many "straps" for adjusting the tension of the vibrating membranes. I think it is important to describe things as precisely as you can.

fduddy · Post by **fduddy** » 10 Oct 2011, 17:38

vasanthakokilam wrote: ....
fduddy, is that your theory or you actually know that to be true?

Absolutely true

kidding !!

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 Oct 2011, 18:43

uday_shankar wrote:...but drums have many "straps" for adjusting the tension of the vibrating membranes. I think it is important to describe things as precisely as you can.

then our mridangam (and similarly made drums) has but one strap <smug smiley>

IIRC, it is looped around 16 times --- but it's been a while since I last counted

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 10 Oct 2011, 19:09

Nick H wrote:then our mridangam (and similarly made drums) has but one strap

Touche ! In fact, that's an important aspect of the mridangam...you just have to pull at one end of the strap to adjust all the loops to the same tension. The only downside is that since it loops on both sides, the membranes on both sides get affected.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 10 Oct 2011, 23:52

you just have to pull at one end of the strap to adjust all the loops to the same tension.

In practice, friction ensures that it doesn't actually work like that. It's actually quite hard to make the tension even all around.

The only downside is that since it loops on both sides, the membranes on both sides get affected.

True. Various people have used systems that decouple the two, but the tradition is still to couple them.

rasikas.org

Mridangam and the Nobel Prize

Mridangam and the Nobel Prize

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Re: Mridangam and the Nobel Prize