Most Commonly sung Ragams of Meenakshi Pancharatnam

[Sundar Krishnan]

27/10/11

I would like to know the most commonly sung Ragams of Meenakshi Pancharatnam, that is often sung as a Ragamalika, for eg, the Ragamalika sung by MS ?, Nityashri etc.
Link to Nityashri's rendition :
http://www.charsur.com/charsur/index.ph ... cts_id=669

http://www.hindudevotionalblog.com/2008 ... atchi.html gives the lyrics of the 5 Stanzas of this Shlokam.

PS : While searching in this site for "Minakshi Pancharatnam", I came across TNS Kutcheri's review, where, he has sung the stanzas of this Shlokam in Viruttams.

TIA

...

[Ranganayaki]

Are you asking what ragams MS and Nityashree have set their versions to? I am not sure if I understand your question right, and I'm wondering why no one has answered you yet.

Just heard Nityashree's version, and it seems to be in the following 5 ragams (please do correct me if I am mistaken): Bouli, Saranga, Sahana, Chakravakam, Bilahari.

I haven't heard the MS version yet. Thank you for bringing it up, it sounds like a very beautiful sloka. I hadn't heard it before.

[Sundar Krishnan]

3/11/11

Ranganayaki,

Thanks for giving the Ragams in Nityashree's rendition.
I would like to recheck on the 1st Ragam - is it Bowli or BhupaLam ?

For me, the most pleasant stanza to hear in Nityashree's rendition, is the Sahana Stanza No 3. Next best is Bilahari.
Personal opinions / tastes vary.

************

My answer to yr 1st query still is the same query :
"I would like to know the most commonly sung Ragams of Meenakshi Pancharatnam".

So, as examples, I cited MS and Nityashree's renditions.
Yes, I wanted to know the Ragams, and their sequence, as sung by MS and Nityashree.
And, there by, know the most commonly sung Ragams of this Shlokam.

BTW, the UTb link to MS's rendition is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQ2-qYNrFng
Meenakshi pancharatnam by M S (3:43 m)

She was perhaps quite old at the time of this recording.

************

Yr 2nd query and related aspects :

You might have noticed that I have deliberately put this query under Gen Discs, and not under Sahita & ... etc.
The reason is that I already have the Lyrics, and that I only wanted the most commonly sung Ragams of this Shlokam.

The reason I brought up TNS's Kutcheri, is that the Review states that he has sung the stanzas of this Shlokam in Viruttams.

"mahavishnu" writes in Post # 2 in http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16537 :
>> "... Each viruttam was from the "Meenakshi Pancharatnam" from Adi Shankara, starting with "Udyath bhanu sahasra koti sadrusam", with each passage ending in "Meenakshmi pranathosmi santhathamaham, karunya vara nithim. ..."

Therefore, I initially wondered if he too chose the very same Ragams for the chosen Viruttam, when he sang the main Song of that Ragam.
But, now when I compare with yr List of 5 Ragams, I can only find Bilahari from the List given by "kuntalavarali" in Post #1 of "rasikas...16537":
"2. Eka dantham – Bilahari – Adi – MD"
(and / but this is not by SS. See below.)

This raises the foll query :

Since the above TNS Kutcheri at Toronto was a thematic concert on Shyama Sastri’s Meenakshi NavaRatnaMalika, I tried counting for the 9 Songs by SS in the list given in Post #1, but I could account only for 8 by SS. Have I missed any song ??
{And in that 8 too, "mahavishnu states in Post #3 : "the kalyani kriti "rAve parvatarAjakumari" as part of the 9, is not determined historically or accepted universally."}

So, which is the 9th in this SS's Nava Ratna Malika ?

Is there a strict "Paddhati" sequence in which these 9 Songs are to be sung ?
{I am trying to compare with the strict sequence of MD's KamalAmbA NavAvarNa Kritis, or his 8 Vibhakti Kritis etc.}

************

PS : In the Review of TNS's other Kutcheri in Philadelphia : http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16659, mahesh3 writes in Post #3 : "the shlokham from Minakshi Pancharatnam in PurviKalyaNi was "nAnA yOgi munIndra" ...".
This is the last 5th Stanza, which Nityashree has sung in Bilahari.

So, there seems to be no strict Stanza <-> Ragam correlation for this Shlokam after all ??
Would like to know more on any positive / constructive info / discussions on this.

TIA

...

[mohan]

Sundar - for slokams sung in virutam format, the raga/s chosen is at the musician's disgression. If there are several verses to the sloka then she probably would choose a different raga for each verse then follow it up with a krithi in the same raga as the last raga she used.

[CRama]

Slokams or viruthams are sung by musicians in ragams of their discretion- not digression - in the ragams what they consider apt for the occasion or the song to follow. Same virutham will be sung by same musician differently in different concerts.
Reg TNS, I attended two prgrammes on this theme, and he announced that only eight songs have been recovered as yet (including Kalyani piece). So we are not aware abaout the nineth song. He has sung each slokam as per the raga of the song what was to follow. If I remember correct, in one programme he sang the last sloka in all the ragams that preceded to it. There is no fixed order in which these songs are to be sung.
TRS also sings some slokams of Meenakshi Pancharathnam in different ragams in each concert. Reg MS rendition, I will hear that and post.

[Sundar Krishnan]

3/11/11

Mohan and CRama,

Thanks for yr comments.

I agree with yr foll pts on the general idea of Viruttams etc :
- Shlokams or Viruttams are sung by musicians in ragams of their discretion. ...
- ... then follow it up with a Kriti in the same Ragam as the last Ragam ...

The above general guidelines for Viruttams are OK when a Stanza of a Shlokam (including this Meenakshi Pancharatnam Shlokam) precedes a main Song.
Fine.

But, (atleast) when this Shlokam is sung as a single separate piece - as for eg, Nityashree has sung in "charsur...669",
I would like to know if the Ragams are sort of "fixed" for each Stanza.
ie, do we have (by an informal general consensus), a form of generally-followed Stanza <-> Ragam correspondence for this Shlokam ?

****************

In Post #3, I had requested for :
"I would like to recheck on the 1st Ragam - is it Bowli or BhupaLam ?"

****************

CRama and Ranganayaki,

I also await the Ragams' list in MS's rendition.

Thanks in Advance (TIA).

****************

Ranganayaki,

Since you mentioned : "... it sounds like a very beautiful sloka."
I would like to draw yr attention to another query of mine :
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17711
- pl also read my comment in Post #2 :
"Since the request is NOT for Lyrics here, I have combined the 3 Shiva Stotram requests here."

In essence, there, I would like to know the :
Author, Ragam & Taalam of the 3 Shiva Stotrams.

TIA

...

[Ranganayaki]

In Post #3, I had requested for :
"I would like to recheck on the 1st Ragam - is it Bowli or BhupaLam ?"

Bouli it is, and not Bhupalam.. Bouli has a ni and a higher ga, which is how it is different from Bhupalam. And she seems to be singing that.

[mohan]

I would like to know if the Ragams are sort of "fixed" for each Stanza.
ie, do we have (by an informal general consensus), a form of generally-followed
...

no - there is no consenus, musicians can choose whatever they want

[Ranganayaki]

I am familiar with the Shiva Panchakshara stotram, which has been sung differently by different artists, but the most famous version must be MS Subbulakshmi's and she sings it as a ragamalika with two ragams. The first three stanzas are in Kalyani and the last two are in Shivaranjani.

I agree that the choice of ragas for viruttam or sloka singing is usually arbitrary. In the Shiva Panchakshara Stotram, the choice of the second raga is probably not that arbitrary, obviously "Shivaranjani" is an apt choice for a Shiva stotra.. but in reality the name Shivaranjani itself (to me) is an arbitrary name for the raga (its notes and delineation) which has no real connection with Shiva.

[mahavishnu]

Sundar Krishnan: In response to your query.

At the Toronto concert, TNS sang the slokams in the intended raga of the kritis, in lieu of a traditional alapanai. He sang Ekadantam that day to start the proceedings because of its reference to "hAlAsya kSEtra vEgavatI taTa vihAram" to keep with the theme of Madurai.

As others have mentioned, I don't think there are set ragams for singing the Meenakshi pancharatnam.

In response to your other query. To the best of my knowledge, the following seven are part of SS's meenakshi navaratnamalika.

Minalochana Brova (Dhanyasi),
Sarojadala Netri (Sankarabharanam),
Devi Minanetri (Sankarabharanam),
Devi Nee Padasarasamule (Khamboji),
Marivere Gati (Ananda Bhairavi),
Mayamma (Ahiri) and
Nannubrovu Lalita (Lalita).

Some claim Rave parvatarajakumari (Kalyani) is part of the nine. Assuming that it is, I am not aware of what the ninth composition is and if it has been identified as such by historians.

[rshankar]

Does anyone know who tuned the version of the mInAkshi pancaratnam sung by Smt. Sivananda Vijayalakshmi? Was it by any chance, her guru, Sri MMI? It was the first version (it used to be broadcast on AIR Madras) I heard, and probably my favorite one as well.

[Ranganayaki]

For the MS version, my first thought was it reminded me of her Durga Pancharatnam. Just stayed with the swarams, I wavered there with some doubt on the daivatam, but settled on the shudda daivatam, and I didn't think there was a gandharam either, which made it Karnataka Suddha Saveri, which is the ragam her Durga Pancharatnam is tuned to (I believe).. since I returned to my original feeling, I am going for it. I'm sticking my head out there, please correct me if I am wrong. She then moves on to Kaanada.

I was also initially thrown off because when I tried to listen to the durga pancharatnam to compare, it didn't sound similar at all, but I quickly realized that she has performed a Shruti bhedam in the Meenakshi Pancharatnam from her normal Shruti. I am really sorry if all this is wrong, but please feel free to correct me. Karnataka Suddha Saveri is not a very familiar raga to me.

[Sundar Krishnan]

3/11/11

Some hours back, I prepared an initial version of a Draft Reply to Ranganayaki's Post #9 (08:19 Hrs), but got busy with some other stuff (including KBC !) ; however, when I came back now to make the final reply to her, I saw that others have added some more useful info, including one more from Ranganayaki (Post #12) too.

My thanks to all, but first, a few pts from my Draft to Ranganayaki - on Shiva Stotrams :

************

1) Thanks Ranganayaki, for yr explanation of Shiva Ranjani Ragam for Shiva Stotrams (Yr Post # 9).

2) The other apt and more popular Ragam for songs on Shiva, is probably Revati - a la "BhO ShambhO, Shiva ShambhO, SvayambhO" - do you agree ?
- this song is composed by DS, and sung very well by Maharajapuram Santanam ; Lyrics in : http://www.karnatik.com/c2437.shtml

************

3) Could you pl send me the Video and / or Audio Link of MS's rendition of Shiva Panchakshara Stotram. TIA.

4) You have mentioned the Ragams of Shiva Panchakshara Stotram, as sung by MS. Thanks.
However, as requested in
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17711, I would also like to have the name of the Composer and the Taalam (if applicable) of this Shlokam.

5) In "...17711", I had requested similar info ie, Author, Ragam & Taalam of 2 other Shiva Stotrams also.

************

6) I think you will agree that it will be more apprpriate if we continue the discussions wrt the 3 Shiva Stotrams from now on, in the other Thread : "...17711".

However, discussions wrt Meenakshi Pancharatnam can continue in this Thread itself.

TIA

...

[Sundar Krishnan]

3/11/11

Continuing ... now wrt Meenakshi Pancharatnam (MP in short) Shlokam, the topic of This Thread :

A) Thanks Mahavishnu for the Songs' details of "SS's Meenakshi NavaRatnaMalika" (Post #10).

B) rshankar, I would like to have the Video / Audio link of the version rendered by Smt Shivananda Vijayalakshmi and MMI.
If it is not an already existing link, could you pl upload it in sendspace, and send me the link address ? TIA.

C) Ranganayaki, The stuff that you mention in Post # 12 :
- "... some doubt on the Dhaivatam, but settled on the Shuddha Dhaivatam, and I didn't think there was a Gandharam either, which made it Karnataka Suddha Saveri, ..."
and
- "realized that she has performed a Shruti Bhedam in the Meenakshi Pancharatnam from her normal Shruti"
all this goes a bit tangential to me ! (it only reflects my lack of that much expertise !).

So, finally, pl confirm if you feel that MS's rendition of MP Shlokam is in a single ? Ragam : Karnataka Shuddha Saveri ??
Would like to know the Ar / Av and Parent Ragam details pl. TIA.

What I have is :
Shuddha SAvEri |from 29 - SB| S R2 M1 P D2 S | S D2 P M1 R2 S
It's (almost) eqvt in MD's School is DevaKriya ? - pl confirm :
shrI vaTuka nAtha shiva saHnjAta dayAkara - dEvakriya / mishra cApu ?
But, in MD's School, DevaKriya is derived from 28 - HK.

...

[Ranganayaki]

1) Thanks Ranganayaki, for yr explanation of Shiva Ranjani Ragam for Shiva Stotrams (Yr Post # 9).

You are welcome, but I may have to reconsider: I decided on these two ragas years and years ago, and never revisited the question, and just gave you those two ragas. But I thought about it today, and I am wondering if I have to change my answer for raga 1 to Yamuna Kalyani, rather than Kalyani. The song is rather limited in scope, but I feel now that Yamuna Kalyani would be a better answer. So I would say that the Shiva Panchakshara Stotram by MSS is sung in Yamuna Kalyani and Shivaranjani.

The link you ask for, to this sloka, can be found here among many other slokas:
http://www.musicindiaonline.com/#/album ... shmi_MS_1/


To answer your other questions:

The composer is none other than Sri Adi Shankaracharya, with all depth in his simplicity of poetry.

The taala: Khanda Chaapu.

M.S. Subbulakshmi's Meenakshi Pancharatnam is not in a single raga; as I said, it is a two-raga ragamalika with (seemingly) Karnataka Shudda Saveri and definitely Kaanada.

Karnataka Shudda Saveri:
=====S R1 M1 P D1 S,
=====S D1 P M1 R1 S

It is not the same as Shudda Saveri which could be derived from 29 (SB) (or even 28 - HK - as you said)

With all its variable swarams being of the "shudda" kind, by the first possible mela rule, Karnataka Shudda Saveri would be a janya of 01, kanakangi, though other ragas like Mayamalava gowla can also be considered its janaka ragas.

[rshankar]

Sorry if this is a reiteration of what is well oown...the Siva pancAksharam is a wonderful composition where the first letters of the 5 verses read na ma Si vA ya (hence the name, Siva pancAkshara stOtram).
Ranganayaki, IIRC, Cienu, in one of his posts indicated that Smt. MSS' version changed a bit, based on Sri TS' perception of how it should sound...and Sri KV obliged with the yk, sr version. Smt. Gowri Ramanarayan in her tribute, 'The shy girl from Madurai', describes how this version has caught on and is sung far and wide; she describes how everyone, one evening in Kedarnath, sang the pancAksharam in the way Smt. MSS sang it.
mInAkshi pancaratnam by Smt. Sivananda Vijayalakshmi is tough to find. PB may be the person to ask for a link. I do not have it.

[Sundar Krishnan]

4/11/11

Ranganayaki,

I request you to pl see my reply wrt Shiva Panchakshara Stotram, the 3rd Shiva Shlokam, in the 3 Shiva Stotrams' request of mine, in : Post # 5 of ...17711.

****************

Now wrt Meenakshi Pancharatnam in THIS Thread, thanks for the Ar / Av of Karnataka Shuddha Saveri.

I had missed to pay focus on the 2nd Ragam Kaanada that you had mentioned in yr Post # 12. The reason may be that yr analysis of Kr Sh Svri was too complex for me, that I missed to focus on this 2nd Ragam, even though I remember to have read through it.

Thanks also for the Composer's name (= Shri Adi Shankaracharya) and Taalam (= Kh Chpu).

...

[CRama]

Reg The Meenakshi Pancharathnam of MSS, I have a submission. First of all, I do not know about Dhaivatham etc. But to me it is different from Durga Pancharathanm which is definitely K.Sudha saveri. To me, the MP starting raga sounds like Malahari. I may be wrong also.

[Ranganayaki]

CRama, I discarded the KSS ragam, thought about it a bit, and returned to it without intending to, so I am sticking to it till someone with conviction explains to me that I am wrong. Not too proud to be corrected, but Malahari has a pretty high Ga, and I didn't hear that, Rama.

[Ranganayaki]

Ranganayaki, IIRC, Cienu, in one of his posts indicated that Smt. MSS' version changed a bit, based on Sri TS' perception of how it should sound...and Sri KV obliged with the yk, sr version.

So many acronyms in your msg, Ravi, not sure I follow it all.. Who is KV? So how did MSS' version change? To Yamuna Kalyani? From which ragam? Kalyani?

[Sundar Krishnan]

4/11/11

rshankar,

Request you to pl refer my query in Post # 8 of "...17711".

I also do not understand many of the acronyms in yr Msg.

Since yr acronyms were in connection with the Shiva Panchaksharam Shlokam, I request you to pl reply in that Thread.

...