TMK @ MA, 21/Dec/2011

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 22 Dec 2011, 21:16

srikant1987 wrote:Please, Nick, don't confuse the M and the N again. You can use "Krishna" if you like for TMK. I'd say

:$ :$ :$

Oh dear. I can understand that you might feel some pain each time I do this. Corrected.

you don't even need to add a Shri or Vid if you don't feel comfortable, since he's much younger than you.

I'm certainly never going to call him "Uncle!" ]

There is only one way to stop my serial criminality in this matter ... stop writing about him!

On the Violin Solo aside, I think it is more a question of opportunity than anything else. Sabhas do not present many violin solo performers, and, when they do, there is a very small number of senior artists that are top of the list to request.

Hemalatha absolutely exudes talent and creativity, as well as having a remarkable ability to make the flavour of her playing match the main artist. I don't think she will refuse solo concert offers: I've seen her play two, maybe three times. Same is true of Padma Shankar.

RKSK also gives solo performances, given the chance --- although I remember him being very modest about doing such a thing, when asked about it less than ten years ago.

There is a season of violin solos, coming up in Jan or Feb, although, this year, it seems to be sadly truncated in comparison to the last couple of years.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 22 Dec 2011, 22:15

On the topic of violinists....

I heard a recording of this concert (yes, you heard that right. I'm sure the TMK police are now after me and my contraband source). I have to say that Dr. Hemalatha's violin accompaniment was exceptionally good. Her varali alapanai was simply beautiful.

I could hear gasps followed by extended murmurs from the audience when TMK began the kalanidhi kriti after Hemalatha's return alapanai!

hamirkalyani123 · Post by **hamirkalyani123** » 22 Dec 2011, 22:39

Wow, and that too at the Headquarters/Mecca of Music...

Would be interesting to read reviews in news papers... Wonder what Subbudu would have written, if he is around still. |(

hammer · Post by **hammer** » 22 Dec 2011, 23:23

Its really pathetic to see that TMK's MA concert is discussed at length for whatever "innovation" he did....which is nothing that can significantly contribute to the growth of music. Last year around this time during the music season a young vocalist made everybody talk about his concert for the brilliant thodi he sang. We all know who it was. He got a standing ovation in the middle of the concert as he finished the Thodi ragam. Many were moved to tears. Im saddened to know that a brilliant artiste like TMK should desperately try such "innovations" to leave a mark. Going by the number of posts I can say that the smart TMK has achieved what he wanted to. Which is to get all your attention!!!!

jagan · Post by **jagan** » 23 Dec 2011, 08:19

How did the Music Academy , the custodian of sampradaya and concert paddhathi,which was given the programme in advance, allow this ?. (it is printed in the Programme Book ). A mere frown from the Academy would have put an end to this tendency to flout the accepted conventions.
Wonder why they failed to do this. Gross Neglect . Reflects badly on the prestigious institution.

shankarabharanam · Post by **shankarabharanam** » 23 Dec 2011, 08:58

TMK has achieved what he wanted.. Seek our attention..

. Why give importance to such artiste who innovates just for the sake of it and does things to grab attention..

sivapriya · Post by **sivapriya** » 23 Dec 2011, 09:37

Carnatic music has a code of convention and many living legends and past masters have amply proved that creative endeavours can be presented within that broad framework.

There are enough and more vivid examples of everlasting , soul stirring music on our hands to prove this point.

CM needs no resurrection, with experimentation at a somewhat " presumed " meta physical level.

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 23 Dec 2011, 09:51

As much as I disliked TMK's concert (and his approach), and as much as I like and admire Abhishek's vidwat, I strongly disagree comparing TMK with ABhishek.....Abhishek is comparitively a very new commer, unlike TMK who has been successful in the field for many years together (despite his crankiness)....Abhishek needs to prove his consistency for many more years to at least warrant comparison with artists like TMK or Sanjay..again I am a big fan of Abhishek....but it is irrelevant to compare Abhishek's overtime last year with TMK's gimmik this year...

sais72 · Post by **sais72** » 23 Dec 2011, 09:55

While we have a right to our opinion on the structure of the concert, it is only fair that we do not cast aspersions on the motives (attention seeking, fear of other artists, mindless experimentation) of the artist and that too with out checking the version of the artist. Look at some of his facebook responses on this topic (http://www.facebook.com/pages/TM-Krishn ... l&filter=1), an excerpt is quoted below, you still have a right to your opinion but do hear the other side.

BTW, can we come back to the substance of the concert from those experts who were present there or heard a recording. How good was the Varali alapana?

thank you for your very honest and open post. All i have to say on this is I sang the music that i believe in with the greatest of humility and respect... and i shall continue to do so... i am very clear in my head about the SANCTITY of carnatic music, be it Varali, a padam, ragamalika , huseni...this is to me paramount... and I have NEVER treated music in a casual manner... its a very serious and deep part of me...This is not just a frivolous experiment or innovation... It is after a lot of thought and i dont believe in innovations... i love what Trichy shankaran sir told me recently that there are no innovations, they are all discoveries as they were already there but we found it now.. ( there is a similar old quote attributed to michelangelo ) those who want to treat my actions as just stunts/attention seeking/insecurity etc etc will continue to do so and i am quite used it...

I am not here to convert anyone...
as its very difficult for me to be clear on a facebook post if i dont make sense then i apologise for it...i open to a discussion on these subjects anytime....

also to clarify that i am not calling what i do an innovation or discovery... the statement on discovery was only a response to the idea of innovation ... T. M. Krishna

anandasangeetham · Post by **anandasangeetham** » 23 Dec 2011, 10:00

very poor justification

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 23 Dec 2011, 10:08

sais72, thank you for your constructive post and TMK's response on FB.

TMK's response on FB seems quite measured, even sincere and does not have any of the perceived arrogance that some of his other shenanigans seem to indicate.

I found the varali alapani to be excellent, with TMK's voice spanning three octaves with an extensive exploration of the lower stayi. I also thought that Dr. Hemalatha's return on the alapanai was remarkable. I suppose this is what led to the disappointment, since people were expecting him to sing Seshachala Nayakam or eti Janmam...

priyashekar · Post by **priyashekar** » 23 Dec 2011, 10:15

One of my freind pacified me saying"TMK dint know how to do Kalavati alaapanai so he did Varali (lol)
so dont ask MA to refund your money "!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 23 Dec 2011, 10:29

What was the pallavi line?

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 23 Dec 2011, 10:43

Can you please tell who is the Bhajji of Carnatic music, so that we can ask them to meet each other

Haha... From the stories I have heard, Bhajji equivalent of Carnatic music Sri Ramanathapuram Murugabhoopathy who is known for his volatile temper and a few "slapgates" in his career.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 23 Dec 2011, 10:49

What was the pallavi line?

thEdinEN kidaikkavillai vArthagaL, avaL azhaginai varnikka...

very secular. composed by Arun Prakash, I am told.

squims · Post by **squims** » 23 Dec 2011, 11:19

Am I going to be crucified if I say I like the pallavi line?

grsastrigal · Post by **grsastrigal** » 23 Dec 2011, 11:52

TMK has made one person happy by singing this pallavi, (may be in the entire concert) ........
... His wife sitting the VIP row.......

arunk · Post by **arunk** » 23 Dec 2011, 12:16

I know I will get crucified for this but I am glad TMK is doing these "unexpected" things and wish he would continue to do more. It makes rasikas.org a heck of a lot more entertaining to me :devil: - This is as entertaining as listening to a couple of old players rant with frothed mouths about their old team"s usual pathetic performance leading to yet another loss on a local Chicago sports radio station.

Arun

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 23 Dec 2011, 12:46

I fail to understand this "secular" lyrcis' importance in carnatic music. Anyway, all keerthanais have been written on gods and goddesses. Or is there a secular agenda behind singing merely an alapanai?

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 23 Dec 2011, 13:00

Our music gives enough scope of singing almost all raga alapana... Take a viruttam - you can sing a line in that raga once (for less than 20 sec) and do an alapana for next 30 mins, no one will complain.... R for an RTP can be for 40 mins and T and P can together be for 10 mins. Artistes have doen all these in the past. These things are typically "spur" of the moment manodharma driven. not preplanned.... In this case, the stand alone alapana was a pre-planned exercise.

Where is creativity, innovation in this? I do not think TMK needs to "draw" attention anymore at the stage of his career he is in. One is unable to understand the real "intent" behind this effort. For lack of any convincing answers - it may be safe to assume that it is done just for the sake of being a non-conformist.

srinivasrgvn · Post by **srinivasrgvn** » 23 Dec 2011, 14:36

This concert was a total disappointment. I pity the poor elders, coming in the wee hours of dawn, to purchase tickets!
The concert had so many bad things including:
* Extremely poor management of time.
* TMK's utter disregard to the concert format(which is known and debated almost everyday!)
* The pallavi would have been very different and refreshing, but it was not, because of the unnecessarily high volume of shringAra rasa(a.k.a padam) that was already starting to annoy people. People were restless and expected a good RTP. To add fuel to the fire was the tamil jhAvali that followed the RTP!
* The RTP, on the whole was very appalling, because he finished everything(R,T,P,Swaras) in a very short duration. The raga, husEni, is such a beautiful raga but he wasted it by his poor time management.
* Chaturdasha ragamalika was handled well, with a different perspective, and beautiful swarakalpanas. But it was way too long, it was
8 PM when he finished it.
* The highlight of the concert - the varAli rAga alapana! Oh my god, we were all telling each other: "Next year, he will sing just a thAnam, and in the next, a pallavi, and in the next just swaras and in the next, just a thaniavarthanam!" So people, better watch out for
"The Journey of the Varali - Part 2"(Releasing in sabhas in Dec 2012) LOL!!

badari · Post by **badari** » 23 Dec 2011, 15:28

and Icing on the cake...next day TMK was spotted in the lec dem by Dr RKS and panel on KUTCHERI PADDATHI

shyamala3091 · Post by **shyamala3091** » 23 Dec 2011, 16:56

Musicians innovations should be confined to tradition, Since he is in the peak of his glory he has taken the concert platform for granted. Rasikas mostly get carried away only by the name and fame of the artists , they do not attend concerts for the original musical content of any musician. TMK can do whatever he wants because he has tremendous support from his mad rasikas and esteemed organisations like The Music Academy . Will any ordinary, sincere upcoming or sub senior musician struggling to come up in the field dare to attempt cheap techniques like this? TMK is purposely using all these kinds of tactics to get extra prominence. This is nothing but sheer arrogance. Many youngsters perform with great sincerity ethics and dedication but its disheartening to see empty chairs in most of the afternoon concerts. When will the rasikas attend concerts for the sake of music sake instead of attending for artists sake

rsrini080463 · Post by **rsrini080463** » 23 Dec 2011, 17:41

Feel good for not attending the concert

Rasika911 · Post by **Rasika911** » 23 Dec 2011, 18:35

Ha ha ha the pallavi line made me smile

I can see people that won't share the same sentiment though...

I'm interested to see the reaction on this site when TM Krishna gets the Sangeetha Kalanidhi award from the acadmey. :p
It's only a matter of time i suppose. 15 years?

venkatpv · Post by **venkatpv** » 23 Dec 2011, 19:37

Ah, so what was previously a number in the single digits is now in the 100s and 1000s. I mean the number of people who unexpectedly got a Kalanidhi.

and to do it at the Academy! wow!! brilliant!!!

hammer · Post by **hammer** » 23 Dec 2011, 21:12

If TMK did this after a lot of thought and if he claims that it is not a frivolous experiment, then is it ok for the Violinist to also pick a different ragam for his or her reply?

How about a few kalpana swarams in Varali for Chinna naadenaa? Wow! why does it prick so much to follow even some of the 'Padhathi' passed on to us by our past masters?

prahlad.raj1 · Post by **prahlad.raj1** » 23 Dec 2011, 22:27

He gave an excellent concert last year in MA. Lets not forget

pvs · Post by **pvs** » 23 Dec 2011, 23:13

With all due respect to everyone's opinions, I wonder what is more sacred, the individual ragas, compositions, etc and their identities or the garland that is the concert format? Remember when every mami used to wear the same kind of kaasumalai, addigai, vanki and 4 vadam chain? Then came the time when all kinds of almost weird jewellery took the scene. Now there seems to be a trend towards the addigai, vanki, etc. The theme is gold and gems (ragas and talas, maybe?). The physical definition of the jewellery is largely immaterial. As long as the gold is 22-24 karat, no point in complaining!! TMK expands the boundary sometimes by his experiments. This is not new boundary but reclaimed space took over by the sea of 'tradition' in the recent past! I am with TMK totally. Too much tradition induces claustrophobia.

Disclaimer - I am not a fan of TMK, but his music and any good music!!
I recently heard that he (or someone else?) sang ritigowlai tanam (no alapanai) and followed with a kriti (in the same ragam)! Did anybody complain then?

On the lighter side: Giving good Sangeetham in the varali and following with Kalanidhi (Chinna nadena)...Is that a cryptic message for Sangeetha Kalanidhi?

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Dec 2011, 23:16

>On the lighter side: Giving good Sangeetham in the varali and following with Kalanidhi (Chinna nadena)...
>Is that a cryptic message for Sangeetha Kalanidhi?

He.he..

Given all this raucous and demands to drive TMK away from the Music Academy, we will see if he even gets to sing there next year

sridrect · Post by **sridrect** » 23 Dec 2011, 23:31

pvs wrote:With all due respect to everyone's opinions, I wonder what is more sacred, the individual ragas, compositions, etc and their identities or the garland that is the concert format?

The objective is to create a good garland using impeccable flowers ! A garland has a sanctity and that sanctity comes from the past GREATS who have nurtured this over generations.

May be he believes in Uthirippookkal ! If he ever gets to sing again at MA, he may well ask all the rasikas to put their favourite song in a box and pick and choose around 10 to sing in a random order (like a lottery). That could also be called innovation. And even then you could argue that the garland is not the objective but the individual alapana, krithis are.

The point is he made a blunder; need to accept and move on and NOT justify the same.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 23 Dec 2011, 23:38

>The point is he made a blunder

I do not think it is a blunder by definition, since blunder means "to make a mistake through stupidity, ignorance, or carelessness". As TMK himself wrote in facebook, it was all intentional.

So all we can say so far is 'He made a thoughtful move and it was not appreciated by a cross section of the rasikas'.

Now, irrespective of whether one liked this particular move or not ( I would have found that to be very jarring as well because it is so unexpected ), one should be magnanimous enough to give him credit for 'thinking differently'. Thinking differently and acting on it is risky and it has consequences and if we dump on people for thinking differently, this art form will be stagnant. If we, as a community, want to encourage 'thinking differently', then we need to separate our reactions to what was produced and the thinking and intention behind what was attemped.

Are we mature enough to distinguish the two and even if we bash the former because it did not sit with us well while at the same time appreciating the latter?

TMK on his part should communicate to the rasika base the thinking behind all this ( instead of just saying it is deliberate ) and how he plans to use the rasika feedback to evaluate his future thinking on these matters.

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 24 Dec 2011, 06:52

vk - "I would have found that to be very jarring as well because it is so unexpected"

I believe that is the crux of the matter, if we rasikas of this generation/today have already been conditioned to accept that, then this is a total irrelevance. So, the question should be - when has any new way of doing things been accepted except over time and becomes the new norm. It all goes to "it is not tradition, not done by past masters, so why should someone do it now" when the question should have been "how did tradition first come into place unless some one chose to do it for first time (and then it succeeded or failed)".

One nitpick though - he didn't give a moment of silence or a pause between the end of violin's varali and chinna nadena. He could have simply given some brief interlude there.

ramnam · Post by **ramnam** » 24 Dec 2011, 07:59

What is the fun in howling now after the event.when his `arrogamce` is well known?He is `hot-headed` and eccentric.Had TT Vasu were at the helm of affairs at the Academy,he would have given marching orders to TMK for starting the prog 15 mts late and would have asked the violinist to play `solo`..Murali is too soft.What prompted him to stop the violinist while she was playing?The only way to `pay him in his coin` is to boycott his concerts and allow him to sing `mouna` raga to the empty Hall.Is it not `time` to reach him a lesson.I was amused to read about his behaviour at Fremont,California ,naturally he knows which side of the `bread` is buttered ,he cannot fill his coffers offending rasikas abroad.

lovecarnatic · Post by **lovecarnatic** » 24 Dec 2011, 08:18

i likes @ tirupugazh comment.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 24 Dec 2011, 08:28

Don't many vainikas present ragamaliga tAnams or alapanais before commencing a kriti? Would that have been more acceptable to rasikas?

lovecarnatic · Post by **lovecarnatic** » 24 Dec 2011, 08:41

guys lower your tone... The artiste might initiate a press conference talking about his justifications for rendering just the ragam.(but who cares ?)

One piece of advice to TmK rasikas. Please take the classic example from Gandhi. Mizaru, covering his eyes, who sees no evil; Kikazaru, covering his ears, who hears no evil; and Iwazaru, covering his mouth, who speaks no evil.

I was wondering why tmk did not start the concert with tani by giving due respect to the accompanists ?:p

thanjavooran · Post by **thanjavooran** » 24 Dec 2011, 08:47

I fully agree with ramnam. All should boycott his concerts. He has no regards for either Senior Vidwans or Rasikas. Better MA calls for a new cutchery format for concerts in the experts committee meeting this year itself. What the Time/ Ringmaster Pappu Rao garu was doing? Is he afraid of this Artist? Rao garu's indecent comments at the end of Prof TNK's Lec Dem still hurts my mind.

Thanjavooran 24 12 2011

lovecarnatic · Post by **lovecarnatic** » 24 Dec 2011, 08:50

I can relate all this to one song - "Lady Gaga's composition - Born this way"

devan · Post by **devan** » 24 Dec 2011, 09:45

the entire academy is afraid of him.the moment he gave the songlist,they could have asked him what is this.the expert comitee which consist of eminent people are afraid of him.he is the alagiri(mk son)of cm.he can do anything and getaway,because of the blessing of who matters.

shyamala3091 · Post by **shyamala3091** » 24 Dec 2011, 09:46

In his next concert TMK is going belch cough sneeze "aha what a great musician he is belching and coughing and sneezing with sruthi we bought the tickets at 5am to listen to his sruthi sudhamana eppam thummal" this will be the listerners reaction

Rasikas have become mad
somebody in this thread has put it rightly "just shows that if an artist is popular today, indulged in such eccentricities, especially in front of the audience" ......
popularity comes only through the support and encouragement from the rasikas and organisations. Rasikas should boycott attending such concerts.

tiruvarur · Post by **tiruvarur** » 24 Dec 2011, 10:18

You must be seriously kidding yourselves if you think that the Academy is going to cut him out of their list next year just because of this concert. While this concert must have been an eye-opener for Krishna to think twice before trying out eccentric experiments on his adoring fans under the garb of "traditional innovation", his career is far from over. Till the dumb jackasses at Hindu and Academy exist, Krishna will too. At this point, one isn't even sure who is sucking up to whom!

Ragjay · Post by **Ragjay** » 24 Dec 2011, 10:43

Why would the MA ban him when he gets crowds and increases their gate collection? All artists or at least most give their list of songs to enable them to print their souvenir.They do not whet any list and it is a preposterous suggestion.I thank TMK for providing entertainment in this thread.the views expressed make interesting reading

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 24 Dec 2011, 11:23

@pvs: "TMK expands the boundary sometimes by his experiments. This is not new boundary but reclaimed space took over by the sea of 'tradition' in the recent past!"

let him expand all the boundaries, create new ones, set existing ones in fire etc., in a morning session at MA entitled "experimenting with new concert formats", and throw all different/new/great/rubbish ideas, and not in an evening slot, for which people pay bucks, unmindful of physical ailments, weather, Madras traffic, and so on....There are lot more deserving aspiring artists, who can maintain current pandhathi .....
Starting late by 15mts...I dono how many of the rasikas here witnessed (or know of) the following incident:
In one of DKP's MA concert (in the 60's), the mridangist was 15 mts late, but the concert started on time with kanjira accompaniment (still remember the "kandrin kuralai" that she started off with - the hall was filled with the rishabham)....TMK no way is a greater vidwan than DKP to "experiment" such MA concert etiquettes....

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 24 Dec 2011, 11:37

and not in an evening slot, for which people pay bucks, unmindful of physical ailments, weather, Madras traffic, and so on....

This is akin to saying Nike should stop selling sports shoes because what I need is a tambura.

sudarsam · Post by **sudarsam** » 24 Dec 2011, 11:43

I am an avid listener to music in general and with a great interest in the carnatic musc. I have been reading this post on TM's performance @ MA; his innovations; the changes he makes to formats etc. Can some one clarify what is the format in carnatic music, who established this format and was there no carnatic music before this format being established. Or is it, we have been used to listening to music in one such format and would not want to change.

squims · Post by **squims** » 24 Dec 2011, 12:23

^ Humans in general cannot accept changes from the norm very easily, be it any aspect of life. It takes time to get adjusted to anything. That's all I am taking away from this discussion.

lovecarnatic · Post by **lovecarnatic** » 24 Dec 2011, 12:26

I would be happy if tmk reads this n shouts like T.R Rajendran in his website.

Thanks for being wholesome entertainer Mr. Tmk. U fill this place with sarcasm. I am enjoying it.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 24 Dec 2011, 12:35

srikant1987 wrote: This is akin to saying Nike should stop selling sports shoes because what I need is a tambura.

But... when you go to the musical instrument shop, do you expect to have shoes thrown at you?

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 24 Dec 2011, 13:03

srikant1987 "This is akin to saying Nike should stop selling sports shoes because what I need is a tambura"
@srikant: Your comparison is rather shallow:
It's like this: Taking a trip about 50 miles to a Nike showroom, and after reaching the place learning from them that they have started to sell only leather shoes......
BTW if 1987 represents the year in which you were born (sorry for being a bit personal), then I'm not surprised at your defense. At your age, you wouldn't have had the opportunity to meet with the "true" vidwans who treated music divinely, and had the utmost respect for rasikas; nor the opportunity to have heard those many soulful concerts......it's hard to explain in words..it is an experience....
It's no wonder that TMK (a few years or at the most a decade older than you are), who more or less has the same exposure as you have, has the arrogance to indulge in such things....