Padams and Javalis - R.I.P.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 20 Dec 2011, 23:31

OS Arun sang as part of Margazhi Maha Utsavam. This was telecast today at 6:00 PM. I normally do not care too much about him or his music, but i got a call from a very good friend of mine asking me to watch the same for some 'entertainment'. A serious rasika and a wonderful musician himself I knew there is something serious in his words

WOW - The way he sang the jAvaLi - chElinEnETlu, a kapi jAvali and the majestic bhairavi padam - rAma rAma prANasakhi were amazing

How does one have guts to come on stage and present some composition like this. I think DKJ, Brinda - Mukta would be turning in their graves. OS Arun can sing whatever he wants - bhajans, abhangs, and can even dance on stage, I do not care.... he can even compose what he wants and sing it in classical, light classical, (con)fusion mode etc..... it is his business. He will have a bunch of people who will flock to his program. That is also not my problem.

My problem is that you cannot take a composition that has some much weight and a pathantaram which is timetested and mutilate it like this. If he can sing padams, I think I can sing them better. The sad part is that the hall was full and people applauded him!! So much for the "musical sense" of Chennai rasikas. These are the people who have made careers of people like Aruna Sayeeram, OS Arun etc... SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!

The Question answer session was hilarious... .when asked about rasikas 10 years ago and now - I wanted to answer - the rasikas have not learnt their lesson. They still come and listen to me'.

I am not saying Rama Ravi, Vedavalli, etc are pristine etc..... my rant is that this man does not have the license to kill songs like this. If he cannot handle a genre - he better learn it well from good teachers/stalwarts and come on stage or sing what he knows the best. By not doing so, he is insulting the audience. He cannot take an audience for granted. The first responsibility is respect to the subject and the audience - which was NOT there today!!!

I would like to know - does Jaya TV give the theme of the programme or is it the artiste himself/herself?

Arun

squims · Post by **squims** » 21 Dec 2011, 02:08

I agree with most of what you have said. I like listening to OS Arun if I am in the mood for some light music, but he should not be mis-handling compositions that have a certain weight and structure to them.

These are the people who have made careers of people like Aruna Sayeeram, OS Arun etc... SHAME ON THEM!!!!!!

It is really sad. The artistes are equally to blame. They let the masses dictate their music instead of educating the audience and honing their musical tastes.
And since you've mentioned Aruna Sairam, I'll say that I've heard her sing padams and javalis in pristine Brinda Amma style. I even attended a lecture demonstration of hers exclusively on padams and javalis a few years back which had left me immensely satisfied. I recently attended a concert though, and despite requests for a padam, even with ample time available, she turned a deaf ear and sang all the usual irritants. In her own words, she 'started the party'... Uggggghhhhhhh.
I've just given up on all these artistes now. Let them sing whatever they want, but please let them not brand it carnatic music. It's just a farce.

tyagarajadasa · Post by **tyagarajadasa** » 21 Dec 2011, 02:59

I can't help but comment on this:

One Arun ranting against another

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Dec 2011, 03:23

>sang all the usual irritants.

tyagarajadasa · Post by **tyagarajadasa** » 21 Dec 2011, 04:44

http://www.youtube.com/user/vkailasam#p/u/4/H0GMGHiPlRk

My only response: OMG!

Utterly dismayed! Especially the kApi.

Listen to Rama Ravi here, it may make many of us feel a lot better : http://www.musicindiaonline.com/#/searc ... q=pAyarAni

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 21 Dec 2011, 07:12

It is no body's monopoly to sing and OS Arun has his followers and admirers. So get over it guys.

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 21 Dec 2011, 09:21

VKR, I do not think anyone is questioning his credentials to sing - rather the way he presented time-tested pieces, that's all.

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 21 Dec 2011, 09:52

arun. I fully endorse your vieews. I also do not listen to both the aruns. But the sad part of it is that they are the crowd pullers and the sabhas, to fill up their kitty promote them. If listners accord the right priority things may change. But I do not foresee any such thing in the near future. Same is my view when I saw the massacre of hindi bhajans by TMK. There was a mad audience for that too. Audience say"I have seen Lord Krishna or Rama before my eyes". Perhaps they do not know what they are saying. They are also telling this to be seen in the TV. But one of your question still remains unanswered. Whether the artists themselves choose the theme or it is suggested by the organisers.

psmani · Post by **psmani** » 21 Dec 2011, 09:56

I have been watching and hearing this murdering of CM by OSA for quite sometime.No words to describe his singing if u watch him in Jaya TV at 8am.They telecast one song and to me it is a sheer mockery of music.Once he sang Natta bhairavi--Sri Valli(PS masterpiece),the lines of Arunsri is abosolutely true--"DKJ ,Brinda and Mukta must be turning in their graves".I cant understand why such a great vidwan Sri Vaithyanathan(DKJs son)is accompanying for such "kolai" songs.Truly he shld not venture out in sabhas.It is ok for a TV prog.He developed a good popularity for singing bhajans,churned out lot of CDs and thought all rasikas will take any chit.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 21 Dec 2011, 10:46

CRama: I got to know that the artiste himself chooses the theme. I would not agree with you on Bhajans by TMK. Simply because bhajans /annamayya kritis/ dasar padams are are tuned by different people differently. When these are tuned by vidwans and vidushis in madhuvantis and karnaranjani - we do not have a problem. But these when tuned in classical carnatic ragas - we squirm. TMK's point was that even bhajans can be sung in our mould - as long as the mood of the song and the bhavam are kept. The raga is chosen so as to match the mood.... shri rAmachandra kripALu was beautiful in nIlAmbari as it was in yaman kalyANi. There was no compromise on the aesthetics. Please note that - i am not saying whatever TMK does is great. I have my own reservations about some aspects of his music... and who does n't.

In case of these - OSA etc.. when a structure is there - time honored, notated by the COMPOSER!!! - you have no right to mutilate it. Tomorrow - it is like calling someone else's kid by different name because you do not like his name/family. OSA can sing another bhairavi padam - if he has the guts let him compose - and let it compete with rama rama praanasakhi and if it is GOOD, definitely, it will stand the test of time.

Aruna is a very very capable musician no doubt. She has reduced her music to satisfy the mundane. probably chakkani rAja mArga was not meant for her.

Most artistes end up accompanying medicore - substandard main people because they are accompanists, they do not have a choice - it is their livelihood. Some of them choose not to accompany and stay as soloists or quit altogether. Compromises as part of profession is unfortunately there in all aspects.... where you know your boss is not as good as you, but you have no choice.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 21 Dec 2011, 10:55

Padams vs. Javali - wow what a distinction!!! what explanation... this audience will lap it up and end up educating 10 other people that padam is this and javali is this!!!

What pathetic voice modulation in chelinenetlu!!! YUCK. And the applause after that it is SICKENING.

Some one after the paras javali asked a question......says listening to him was like SGKaittappa, KBS, MMI etc.. "barring that these did not sing CM".... MMI NOT singing CM but film music... WHAT A PATHETIC AUDIENCE. The audience begets what it deserves... Thank GOD i am not in chennai

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Dec 2011, 11:24

arunsri

Chelinenetlu sounded that way because in addition to OSA's modulations, the way the mridangist played for the song contributed to that. That was evident from stroke 0. It is probably choreographed to be that way, so we will put the "credit" on the team and the leader.

That MMI thing is funny and sad at the same time but I do not think that questioner intended to include MMI in that list given the other names she brought in. Especially given her preface that she is not familiar with the carnatic scene. Not sure who she confused MMI with

Anyway, she was basically saying he does not sing like a carnatic concert singer but more like the yesteryear carnatic style film singers. If that is her true feeling, so be it and it is not too far from reality either. His response was one of the stock variety, but he did not give any indications, however faint, of taking offense to it. I interpreted that as implicit acknowledgement/agreement and that is OSA stamp, as he put it.

ganeshkant · Post by **ganeshkant** » 21 Dec 2011, 11:30

arunsri wrote:and can even dance on stage

Actually he used to sing for dance earlier and a much sought after artist in his own words.He is a man of many hats apart from this.
1.He is an accomplished dancer of many styles like B/N,kuchupidi,manipuri and kathak.
2.a black belt in karate
3.an accomplished chef (continental)

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 21 Dec 2011, 11:48

Anyway, she was basically saying he does not sing like a carnatic concert singer but more like the yesteryear carnatic style film singers. If that is her true feeling, so be it and it is not too far from reality either.

It is. Very far from reality, I mean.

I feel immeasurable rage when anyone talks about MMI like this. Et tu, VK!

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 21 Dec 2011, 11:50

srikant, my 'not far from reality' reference is not about MMI, you know that!!

Leave out the MMI reference, I think that is a slip of the tongue on the questioner's part, don't hang her for that. When something is so far from reality, we have to give the benefit of the doubt that it was a blooper. It is not worth getting enraged over. It is easy to commit such mistakes under nervousness when you are asking questions in front of that many people in a concert that is being recorded for TV.

But what is interesting to me is the crux of her point. She likes it for that reason and classical carnatic people like most of us here do not like it pretty much for the same reason.

squims · Post by **squims** » 21 Dec 2011, 12:53

Listen to Rama Ravi here, it may make many of us feel a lot better : http://www.musicindiaonline.com/#/searc ... q=pAyarAni

Thanks for that! I loved the rendition.

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 21 Dec 2011, 14:13

In case of these - OSA etc.. when a structure is there - time honored, notated by the COMPOSER!!! - you have no right to mutilate it.

Were Kshetragna padhams NOTATED by the composer?

priyaram78 · Post by **priyaram78** » 21 Dec 2011, 14:15

I was totally disappointed

after listening to O.S.Arun's concert yesterday on television. So many other upcoming musicians could have been given a chance instead of him. Wish Jaya tv gives a chance to many other deserving musicians, who are serious about their music.

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 21 Dec 2011, 14:58

I remember my elder brother narrating this incident to me:
Semmangudi mama sang "Ninnujootsi", the punnagavarali padham, in a concert and the next day, on a different context, went to Viswanatha Iyer's house. The moment SSI entered the house, it seems V Iyer asked "enne daa Padam laam paada aaramichitiyaame? andhe alavukku gnaanamum, saadhaga theramaiyum vandhuduthaa?" This was when Semmangudi mama was well into his 40's.
A vidwan with tremendous gnaanam and practice such as SSI, was criticized for earnestly attempting to sing a padam.......I do not need to say anything more.......very sad and disturbing......

Jyeshtha · Post by **Jyeshtha** » 21 Dec 2011, 16:20

I admire your persistence-- I switched the channel halfway thru Chelinenetlu!!

narayan · Post by **narayan** » 21 Dec 2011, 16:24

Since T Brinda and MMI are mentioned in this thread, I must point out that at least two songs, Cetah Sri Balakrsnam and Sri Matrubhootam are sung by these two sangeeta kalanidhis in very substantially different styles and versions. I personally accept both of them, as they are convincing in their own way.

Coming to this topic, I may not particularly find OSA's rendering my cup of tea (I am a coffee drinker), but I feel the criticism is too harsh in this thread. The songs seem to be rendered not too differently from what I recall, but the stylization makes all the difference. I wouldn't go out of my way to listen to this, but that's really about it. I don't think it harms anything.

I think subtle goals and nuances can anyway not be furthered by harsh words whether in singing songs or in criticism of them.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 21 Dec 2011, 16:50

I just switched the TV off after the first five minutes. Cldn't bear his explaining the meaning between singing the pallavi and anupallavi of the Javali, among other clownish expressions/movements of his. Good that somebody brought this up. Padams and Javalis in OS Arun's hands = poomalai in korangu's hands.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 21 Dec 2011, 16:59

I fully agree with Sri Narayan. Kritis are slaughtered routinely, so why should we suddenly get so excited when a padam or jAvaLi is slaughtered? And in fact, I wouldn't even say OSA "slaughtered" the kApi jAvaLi as much as kritis are generally done. And NO, I don't mean MMI slaughtered cEtaH shrI at all. But I've seen the Sanjay slaughter "tiruvaDi caraNam" on one occassion, and he was frivolous with enta rAni of harikAmbhOji in a recent concert too. He is hardly alone in this, just one example I immediately recollect (I've learned to avoid these "examples" over time, though

).

tiruppugazh · Post by **tiruppugazh** » 21 Dec 2011, 17:19

As far as I am concerned, every time I hear a rendition that I don't approve of it is considered "slaughter" by ME. I don't care whether the culprit was Brinda or or GNB or Ariyakudi, or T.M.Krishna or Mali or Ravikiran or Balamuralikrishna or Nityashree or Sanjay or Abhishek or Amritha Murali or or or etc etc etc

Sivaramakrishnan · Post by **Sivaramakrishnan** » 21 Dec 2011, 18:56

I too am a votary of padam-s and javali-s and (wherever possible) make it a point to request the artist (in advance) to render a padam /javali. Many have readily obliged. Unless 'kutcheri artists' realize that there is a following/demand for it, many wont care. And such compositions end up in special shows which are running short of themes.

In a typical concert how many rasikas ask for a javali or padam? A couple of years back, I witnessed a concert of a duo sisters who ,during the tukkada session asked the audience what they want next: padam or abhang ? the audience roared in one voice : "abhang"!!
I don't dislike abhang or bhajan, but am peeved at the utter disregard for traditional items. Artists may sing both instead of leaving the choice to the listeners. Ultimately a given audience is not familiar with the Padam-javali genre and tend to welcome it in any manner when presented in events. We ourselves are to be blamed to a certain extent.

And it is not the Music Academy or such institutions which are hosting showbiz events in the media.

We have to make a conscious attempt to reverse the trend instead of raising cudgels against artists (any body for that matter) who welcome publicity. Once an artist reasoned that the contents padams/javalis are soaked in sringara rasa that may not go well always. It is a silly excuse.

squims · Post by **squims** » 21 Dec 2011, 19:07

Once an artist reasoned that the contents padams/javalis are soaked in sringara rasa that may not go well always. It is a silly excuse.

It sure is. The audience rarely knows the meaning/context of ANY piece, not just padams or javalis.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 21 Dec 2011, 20:17

rshanker - Here is a group of people blaming the audience who are enjoying whatever way Arun sings. Time tested pieces are definitely to be broken by some one and let us not put anyone as authority other than the author of the lyrics if he/she has set a particular style IMHO.

sivakami · Post by **sivakami** » 21 Dec 2011, 22:55

While reading this post, few incidents that we witnessed here at Hyd/sec kutcheris came to my mind. First was a kutcheri (CUT-CHERI!) rendered by OSA early this year (16th Feb), here. Some of my friends specifically came for this program and stayed till the end (who, if at all came for other concerts, used to leave half-way otherwise) in order to listen to his bhajans sung during the second half with tabla accompaniment. The event was his usual style (as stated above!). Secondly, we could not help comparing his bhajans with that of the wonderful presentations of OS Sundar who had come the previous fortnight (Feb 5th) to perform divyanamam and other bhajans in a “Radha Kalyana Mahotsavam”. Third event was during the kucheri of OSThyagarajan garu recently here for Kalasagaram on 29th Nov.(I have posted the details in an earlier thread..). When OST was rendering beautifully the kriti “Varalakshmi neeye vandharulvaaye” in salaga bhairavi, with the correct pauses between the phrases, my mind drifted to OSA’s style for a minute and shuddered. At the end OST also sang a javali in khamas which we enjoyed immensely. Although it may not be relevant to this thread, I could not help, but comparing the contrasting styles coming from the same family/school. Another time recently we were reminded about him, while listening to Nadamuni Gayathri Bharat last week here at Secunderabad (I am yet to post the report of this concert). It made us wonder whether she was under the tutelage of OSA; when she sang “Vinayaka ninnu vina brochutaku” it sounded as “vinna yakka niinuvi na…, vinna yak kka, vinna yak kka…so on”. The remaining kritis were also rendered in a similar sorta fashion.

In another instance, in a kutcheri by Smt. AS, while singing her popular number & the chit-request of rasikas, “Maadu meikkum kanne ..”, it looked like as if she needed to refer to some book/paper for the lines “ kaaichina paalum tharen, kalkandu....”. In that subdued lighting on the stage as well as in the hall of that 5-star deluxe-hotel, it was a bit difficult to see properly. Therefore, those lines when sung sounded as “kachina paalum tharen, kalkandu…..”. One octogenarian mama kept saying form behind, ”indha madhiri kachi pona paal ellam kuduthaal, kannan Odi poyuduvaan..”. Similar such distorted diction(s) were noticed in many places by rasikas in that concert. IMHO, perhaps some of us, rasikas have to learn and evolve atleast now and ignore everything, and learn to applaud for everything along with the crowd, as it is customary. I am asking myself is it possible?

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 22 Dec 2011, 00:19

narayan - variations in pathantaram versus freelancing is what I am referring to.

I am perfectly OK with a "different pathantaram" funda. It is perfectly logical to have a different version of the same song, as our music has come down orally. In fact, we have accepted even change in ragas for many songs... so that is not an issue, It is the "trivialising" aspect of his music which I hated. OSA freelanced thru the javali and padam... he must remember that he is not an MDR to carry it off. there was no pathantaram remotely. It was just recitation in kapi and bhairavi. There was NO music. The kalapramanm was not consistent.

More importantly, There was no sincerity in the approach. It was utter contempt for the audience, the disregard for the composition that irritated me to the core. Why is such an artiste a HIT - why are sabhas and TV promoting him, For every OSA, there are 100 other better, more sincere, more committed artistes, who probably do not care about these aspects. May be a sabha like Nada Inbam came up exactly for this reason.

OSA needs to learn that when you are a performer - you NEED TO RESPECT THE AUDIENCE and the composition - period, or you should be super brilliant like Mali etc to have your vidwat overshadow your short comings. When in OSA's case - no such thing exists.. he should simply stop singing carnatic music, or improve upon his shortcomings, or turn to other professions for which he has training (Kathak, karate and cuisine).... but seeing the attitude in his singing, I am sure - it will be the same whatever he decides to do..... Every thing needs commitment. even a simple meal cooked by a person needs commitment and dedication - else it will be a flop).

I hope he is not having students learning 'Carnatic Music' under him.

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 22 Dec 2011, 03:34

"Why is such an artiste a HIT - why are sabhas and TV promoting him" ponder and come up with your own answer such as Sabhas, TV and audience are stupid ignorant - right?

hamsadhwani · Post by **hamsadhwani** » 22 Dec 2011, 04:18

arunsri wrote: OSA needs to learn that when you are a performer - you NEED TO RESPECT THE AUDIENCE

Isn't he doing just that? You yourself said that the audience seems to love what he offers.

ramamantra · Post by **ramamantra** » 22 Dec 2011, 09:03

[quote="hamsadhwani'] Isn't he doing just that? You yourself said that the audience seems to love what he offers.

[/quote][/quote][/quote]

We are also audience, aren't we? We dont love what he offers. It irritates a sensible audience when he offers it the way he offers (ie read clownish). Add to it, his negligence of keeping to basics like talam, song structure or sequence, etc, his singing is so shallow. It will be good if he positions himself as a 'Bhajana party' and a relief to sane audience.

carnatricks · Post by **carnatricks** » 22 Dec 2011, 09:45

i dont think there is anything wrong in him singing bhajans. but doing that in a concert labeled as 'carnatic' is where i would say the problem is. also if a musician like him decided to take up a kapi javali during a concert, i feel there should be justice done to that. each have their own identity and feel and that should be maintained is what i feel. and the other point someone has rasied regarding patanthara, it is fine if the sangatis were different (normally like in a different patanthatra) but not if the aesthetic of the ragam and its structure and feel in itself has been changed to suit the audience. correct? and he himself in the youtube video link posted by someone here says that he feels like his time is lost teaching when people change the patantharams and get influenced by other sources. quite an irony. and on a seperate note, love the heading for the post provided by arunsri.

there are however musicians who still perform padams and javalis in all its grandeur. rama ravi presented a wonderful gowlipanthu padam at the academy, sowmya presented rama rama prana sakhi at brahma gana sabha and vaniponthu, and tmk took up the eternal kambojhi padam balavinave as main for his academy concert this year and did great justice to it. lets hope there are more youngsters who take up padams and javalis and present them in concerts.

priyashekar · Post by **priyashekar** » 22 Dec 2011, 12:48

I just did the best thing .Switched of the tv when he started masacaring from the word go ! I could not bear to hear or see OSA!

fduddy · Post by **fduddy** » 22 Dec 2011, 14:16

Has OS Arun any where claimed himself to be classical musician. He is a pure semi classical musician and a bhajan singer and the audience segment that he caters to is far different.
Murdering the lyrics of a time tested kriti - There is nothing you and I can do about. It is something that the artist should make efforts in learning the kriti, its meaning, emotions in which it was made etc which will give a wholesome effect. Sadly, neither the artist take enough care not are the audiences for this prog are concerned. For them it is just music rendered in some fashion that is attarctive enough.
ArunSri - Though your points are valid enough, not much can you do unless the audience expectation changes. Here there is a huge gap. And these artists get away with it and they continue enjoy a huge fan following.
Instead of attending a concert taking the pains of standing in long queues, putting up with the chincken gunea infected mosquitos bites (specially in this venue !!), huffing and puffing after listening to the music that is not to your liking, why not have a selective music artists in your list and attend those and be contended !!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 22 Dec 2011, 22:35

why not have a selective music artists in your list and attend those and be contended - good conclusion.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 23 Dec 2011, 12:25

that is not to your liking, why not have a selective music artists in your list and attend those and be contended !!

- Yes of course, I do not even remotely think of attending these people - even if paid!

Since it was on Margazhi maha utsavam and was on TV just after I came back from work... and having heard/read about far more deserving artistes languishing, I was forced to post about it.

Keeping quiet seeing a crime - is also a crime. I think what happened that day was a crime. Just as you will not want your child to be abused by a third person - just because compositions do not have a voice - we can do what we want is not acceptable... so I spoke out. I also know my speaking does not affect 99.99% of the audience or the artiste... but it is good to put your thoughts sometime and take out your frustrations. I am sure artistes read this forum, and if someone is sensitive, he/she will know that what he is doing is not much appreciated.

Neeraja veni · Post by **Neeraja veni** » 23 Dec 2011, 23:52

I was quite upset that someone has uploaded the kapi javali- bhaayarani . Because in a moment of masochistic impulse, i actually clicked on the link and listened. Unpardonable. It is such a beautiful javali which i have heard the Hyderabad brothers sing often.

Arunsri wrote even he could sing better. I actually feel like singing too... But a movie song...

``Kola veri, kola veri...''

ankitam · Post by **ankitam** » 29 Dec 2011, 21:04

sivakami wrote:Another time recently we were reminded about him, while listening to Nadamuni Gayathri Bharat last week here at Secunderabad (I am yet to post the report of this concert). It made us wonder whether she was under the tutelage of OSA; when she sang “Vinayaka ninnu vina brochutaku” it sounded as “vinna yakka niinuvi na…, vinna yak kka, vinna yak kka…so on”. The remaining kritis were also rendered in a similar sorta fashion.

She is a student of Vidwan Late Sri.Vairamangalam Lakshminarayanan..