TMK @ MA, 21/Dec/2011

[annamalai]

Quite keen to hit the century - push to wide of extra cover -

Interestingly, the next day, on the lecdem of Kutcheri paddathi TRS spoke for 2 minutes - He mentioned "Concert Paddathi is a formula".
He mentioned a few examples - Flute Mali has started concerts with a geetham ? - Sambasiva Enave (Khamas), Srungaralahari (neelambari).
The audience loved it. He also mentioned that TRS himself has started a concert with a Javali !

Dr. Pappu Venugopal Rao - read out the 1929 resolution by Music Academy - 10 points - one of them was interesting - duration of Kalpana swaras should be limited. Can not imagine this in present day context

[Tamizhisai]

Not surprised. I heard from a friend that he sung Varnam after singing a couple of krithis in a concert at IIT. If rasikas ignore him and stop flooding of posts in the net he will fall in line. Hence best course is to ignore him.

[Muthuraman]

HI Rasikas,

Some innovations which yester year stalwarts have done....

1. Kalpana swarams for Varnams .MMI has done excellent kalpana swaras for Viriboni.....!!! Some recordings are still available...!!!. Senior artists sing kalpana swaras for other varnams even now.

2. Kalpana swarams for Pancharathna krithis - Mah.Vishwanatha Iyer had done kalnapa swarams for Nattai & Arabhi krithis.

3.Kalpana Swarams for Swarajathi - SSI has always rendered Bhiravi swarajathi with kalpana swarams. In fact he has mentioned in one of his inverviews that some rasikas were critical of this. Others who have done this are MDR, TNS etc....

4.Rendering of Thanam preceding the Main krithi of a concert with Mridangam accompaniment. In kerala this is a practice even today.
In many concerts outside the Navarathri Mandapam also this is a practice.

[CommonMan]

Annamalai: All I was trying to drive down was that even the absence of a mridangist at MA did not stop DKP from starting the concert on time...but for reasons known and unknown TMK had the guts to start the concert 15 mts later.....sorry if I did not convey this message succintly.....(kandrin kuralai was what DKP started the concert with - tht was what I was trying to pass on, and I still vividly recall how beautifuly that was rendered)

[sankark]

annamalai - varali alapana - started very well, but personally it is not something that I would rate very high or even recall after quite sometime - like a mangalakaisiki (bhargavi bhadram) or muhkari (vadasi yadhi) he sang in Tattvaloka about 4 - 5 years ago. That though is my opinion/preference and I certainly am not talking about varali grammar as I am not qualified/knowledgeable in that area.

[annamalai]

sankark,

Agreed. That is a fair point.

[pvs]

This is interesting. Wonder if someone (note: I'm not mentioning ARI, lest it should spawn another thread of debates) who started the current kutcheri paddhati faced this much opposition. Of course he would have been breaking tradition on a bigger scale! but of course there was no Rasikas.org then!!

[srikant1987]

srikant1987 "This is akin to saying Nike should stop selling sports shoes because what I need is a tambura"
@srikant: Your comparison is rather shallow:
It's like this: Taking a trip about 50 miles to a Nike showroom, and after reaching the place learning from them that they have started to sell only leather shoes......
BTW if 1987 represents the year in which you were born (sorry for being a bit personal), then I'm not surprised at your defense. At your age, you wouldn't have had the opportunity to meet with the "true" vidwans who treated music divinely, and had the utmost respect for rasikas; nor the opportunity to have heard those many soulful concerts......it's hard to explain in words..it is an experience....
It's no wonder that TMK (a few years or at the most a decade older than you are), who more or less has the same exposure as you have, has the arrogance to indulge in such things....

From your post it is quite evident that you don't know about my favourite kind of music. You clearly haven't read my other posts in this thread, let alone in other threads in this forum. You should have tried to find out a little more about me before going so "personal".

I think I have made my point very clearly, CommonMan. The Music Academy doesn't always offer the ARI/MMI/SSI/DKP kind of music anymore, and TMK doesn't sing kucheris of that kind either. This has been the case long enough for rasikas devoted enough to turn up at the Academy at 5 30 am to buy tickets to have realised. If they haven't realised, they're being thick-skulled, whatever their age.

Since the Moderators simply don't seem bothered, what with a "brilliant" review of Aruna Sairam to divert their attention, I decided I could wait no longer and have posted as directly as I can without returning an offensive tone.

[tiruppugazh]

"The Music Academy doesn't always offer the ARI/MMI/SSI/DKP kind of music anymore"

It is unfortunate that the MA never had a chance to offer the Maha/Patnam//Poochi kind of music and had to settle for the above kind for so many years. Unfortunately some "thick skulled" rasikas made ARI/MMI/SSI/DKP what they are today.

Your truly

A 127 year old rasika who thinks Music Academy and Ariyakudi were the reasons for the decline in standards in Carnatic Music.

[srikant1987]

tiruppugazh,
I was addressing CommonMan directly. It would have been polite to let CommonMan respond to it without interrupting.

[CommonMan]

To become thick-skulled after a certain age is a natural process; can't do much about it. So is being eternally optimistic of hopeful artists (who can potentially produce "reasonably" quality music) to behave humbly onstage.
I am not unrealistic to expect an artist of TMK's caliber to produce the quality of music that ARI/MMI/SSI/DKP did....I am sure TMK himself would agree to this - well! he better does (again a thick-skulled expectation)...despite knowing this, if people (including me) are willing (and thick-skulled enough) to turn up at such a prestigious institution to listen to him, then they deserve some kind of respect.....no artist is greater than the art....
Jambavans of music have respected and adhered to the concert etiquette at MA ever since it's inception....so, in such a revered institution, the pranks that TMK plays on and off the dias comes across very offensively.....there is something called "sabha mariyaadhai", and what he did was "sabha avamariyadhai".......
no one can disregard the institution's share (however little it may be) of attracting crowd to a concert.....pls don't misread my last line and ask a follow-up question such as "would you feel any better had he done the same in a different sabha?"

[srikant1987]

Thank you for not again boiling back at me.

I wanted to get out of this thread as soon as possible, and now I think is a good time to do that.

[vasanthakokilam]

Since the Moderators simply don't seem bothered, what with a "brilliant" review of Aruna Sairam to divert their attention, I decided I could wait no longer and have posted as directly as I can without returning an offensive tone.

Srikant, you handled it the proper way which is how it should be. Thanks.

[pattamaa]

I am not surprised at all! For someone who can sing bhairavi swarajathi starting from last charanam in concert platform (yes, i am mentioning about amba kamakshi of shyama sastri, one of music trinity), for someone who claim to be in music 24x7, for someone who can say that maylapore mama, mami's won't even know if he can sign jack and jill rhyme with some godess name embedded as pallavi, i am not surprised at all. 2012 is just 7 days away, and we are in kali yuga, we should know what to expect. After all nostradamus will prove again that his predictions are true.

[sridrect]

please, your choice of adjectives/superlatives in other threads, I am not sure it would be possible for you to consider an objective perspective on this issue.

Annamalai: Regarding my choice of adjectives / superlatives in other threads (you could have openly said SANJAY threads !!!), it is just an expression of the joy / happiness / bliss that I experienced in attending a particular kutcheri. If you did not feel the same; either you did not attend the Kutcheri OR you did not have the same experience; both are fair !!!

In this case, I used the word blunder and there are enuf posts here on this thread that have shredded the artiste and the blunder to a much more large extent. If blunder is a superlative / adjective for you; so be it.

Please do not make conclusions for me as to whether I will have an objective perspective on this issue, just bcoz me being a fan of someone else!

[raghavt]

Some people may call this innovation, you know they are too 'open minded' As in they are opened to everything. I will suggest a new innovation, let the concert start with a Thani. What's wrong in it? Its yet another so called 'innovation' Not sure why some people go for such innovations for the heck of it. Maybe they think they have mastered everything and there is nothing left out.

Instead of spending time on such silly thoughts if they could concentrate on the quality of stuff that they present... it will be much much better. People will be there always to receive good quality stuff... be it music or anything else.

"Let noble thoughts come to all from all sides" ~ Rigveda

[Nick H]

The only thing worse than changing things just for the sake of it is not changing things just for the sake of it.

Any change that works will be talked of as part of the hallowed and untouchable "tradition." ...within a year or two. The rest are discarded.

[ajsriram]

@Raghavt : Nothing wrong in starting a concert with a thani. I would love it.

On the other hand, the thani should be brilliant and filled with Beauty, Maths & not with gimmicks and finally showcasing the mridangam as a grove playing rhythm instrument.

-
Carnatic Music Turns Me On

[tiruvarur]

I think it is time to spare this guy! After all, it is just one concert.

[gs]

A 127 year old rasika who thinks Music Academy and Ariyakudi were the reasons for the decline in standards in Carnatic Music.

His statement sounds pretty reasonable to me

[raghavt]

@Raghavt : Nothing wrong in starting a concert with a thani. I would love it.

On the other hand, the thani should be brilliant and filled with Beauty, Maths & not with gimmicks and finally showcasing the mridangam as a grove playing rhythm instrument.

-
Carnatic Music Turns Me On

Super... as a student of the Mridangam, I wouldn't mind a tani every two songs ... To answer your other part, how the tani should be brilliant... well, its purely a subjective thought process and out of scope of this thread.

[squims]

Let me add my name to the list of people that would have no problem with a concert starting with a thani.

[Nick H]

Nadaswaram concerts start every song with a thani!

[uday_shankar]

Maths

"Maths" or "Arithmetic" ? Most mathematicians I know have absolutely no interest or taste in "kanakku". They think "Maths" means things like differential equations, abstract algebra, non-euclidian geometry, etc...

[Nick H]

Arithmetic is a branch of maths ... maths is an easier single syllable! 1+1=2 is still "maths!"

[raghavt]

Maths in this context is simple arithmetic coupled with permutations and combinations. In Hindi there is an idiom - "gAgar mein sAgar bharna" while exactly translates into filling the whole sea in a vessel or pitcher... hope everyone can correlate... again, lets not deviate from the main thread... and I am all in for starting the concert with a tani... preferably a tani after every 2 songs...

[Nick H]

lets not deviate from the main thread.

At this point in its life, I think it would be a very good idea!

[uday_shankar]

Your wish is granted Nick. This is not over...

permutations and combinations

Sorry ! / (Sorry - r) ! This is also not true. Laya pedagogy does not involve the derivation the formula for nCr and nPr.

[raghavt]

By permutations and combinations I was trying to give a broader picture.... now lets not bring the formula aspect

BTW did you know a senior Mridangam Vidwan from Kerala has created a formula to compose korvais in any given tAla. And that formula does involve n!/(n-r)! also n!/r!(n-r)! (I graduated in maths before switching over to computer software, so you know no dearth of formulas.... ) And this formula composition was done in late 70s if I'm not wrong and this was certified the PMI. Let me not name that vidwan, again - deviation from the main thread..... So let TMK sing ..... @ that lemme make a full stop.

[srikant1987]

Uday,

I guess the kaNakku musicians often solve equations of the form
6a + 5b + 7c = d, for some known d, looking for integral solutions.

I think there's some nCr–nPr way to know how many solutions such integral solutions are available.

[lovecarnatic]

I had a chance to grab Kutcheri buzz daily new sheet....

Loved Mr. Gopal Ratnam's comment on "Expert T.M Krishna"

[KNV]

130 posts & I read all of them. TMK has achieved what he wanted.

[Nick H]

My teacher has evolved a formula for korvais of any given length. A senior artist said it could not be done, so he demonstrated. I've since come to know, from Curtis, his student, that Trichy Sankaran has given such a formula too. I suspect that many mridangists have such things in their armoury ... but some do not all reveal the tricks-of-the-trade that they know, not even to their students.

[KNV]

Let me share my experience of this artist. The 1st time I heard him was some 15 years back at Kalakshetra for a show conducted by Gowri Ramnaryan. He sang a brief alapana of Harikambhoji followed by Vandadum Solai. Wow what a manly voice,ideal for carnatic music I told my wife. After that I heard him at Nada Inbam where he sang the Dikshitar Kriti in Nayaki "Ranganayakam" which is still ringing in my ears. But I noticed he had some bad habits like bringing out a sound which is normally associated with Nadaswaram Vidwans when they fall short of breath. Also his excessive appreciation of co artists with Besh & sabhash was annoying to serious listeners.I had written about this in one of the web sites. I find he has come down on these habits. Meanwhile I was regularly reading the Hindu Reviews of his concerts & Gowri Ramnarayan in particular raves about his music. Gowri was his English teacher in School & she knows him since his childhood. I attended one of his Academy Concerts a few years back when he was accompanied by Karaikudi Mani. In that concert he sang the Kambhoji piece " mari mari Ninne " the song popularised by Alathur Brothers. I remember he sang the Anu pallavi line nearly 25 times. I thought Hindu would crticise the concert but Gowri wrote a raving review for the selection of this unsung piece. I also found the power of his voice had come down. Meanwhile I found him featured regularly in Hindu & the Editor was treating him like a Film Star. In one of the interviews (like the one conducted with matinée idols) he had mentioned single malt whiskey as his favorite drink! Last year my wife attended a couple of concerts & suggested that I should attend his Academy Concert on 1st Jan 11. So I did. I was disappointed with the selections for a morning concert & almost every 2nd item being rendered at snails pace. I also found his voice had thinned down & he was not comfortable singing in higher ranges. He was using mm, ri etc & not akaram.I walked out half way through the concert. The ultimate happened about 4 months back

[carnatricks]

i cannot comment on your experiences but i have listened to his mari mari ninne on cd. the song seems to be endless. i also got hold of a alathur rendition later. the reason why you probably heard the same line again and again is because the song has close to 35 sangatis with variations everywhere throughout the song. probably the most in any song. and i did go to a couple of his concerts this season and he seemed to be able to sing the athi thaara sthaayi sa and even ri in saveri quite effortlessly and upto the pa below the 'below sa'. so not sure about your point regarding the range either. your post ends with a mystery statemnt 'the ultimate happened about 4 months back'. is there a part 2 to your post?

[KNV]

There is part 2. I was feeling sleepy. I will narrate tonight. I have also heard Alathur rendition. He has not sung more than 4 to 5 sangatis. It is there in net. He is not as comfortable as he was in singing in higher ranges.Some things I can share in person not in a social group as these are hearsay only.

[arasi]

Call me a wet blanket, but hasn't enough been said about the vidvAn, at least in this thread?

All right, I admit that this is a highly entertaining thread (more than what some performers will give us for all the waiting in lines and paying good money), and at times being turned away with a 'sold out' bark at the ticket counter after hours of waiting.

TMK inspires such emotions in listeners when they feel that he acts up. Wonder why

A sobering thought--are we missing out on sharing more of our good concert experiences by paying too much attention to this as if to a child who is throwing up a tantrum?

I don't want to say anymore but to go back to the beginning of this thread and read it all over again

[KNV]

Part2: TMK performed at Music Academy Hall for Nandalala Trust 4 to 5 months back. I had a Royal invitation for this concert & attended with my wife. The hall was full. First he called the officials over mike & said pl ensure proper balance & feedback. Then came the announcement. He said Mylapore mamis should bear with him since he is not going to perform a regular kutcheri but a Thematic concert highlighting the activities of Nandalala Trust. (indirectly he meant you can leave if you don't like it) Then he explained the meaning of the first song & started Vaishnava Janato. Then he said he is singing a composition composed by violinist R K Sriram Kumar for the occasion. I think it was in Sahana. Then came the explanation for the next song & he started "Parukulle Nalla nadu". Finally he said he is singing a song meant for kids but equally applicable for adults & sang "Odi Vilayadu Papa". At this juncture I dragged my wife & walked out. I decided I will not attend TMK concert anymore.