Best piece in Sudha - Jaya TV

[CommonMan]

Was her mimicry...........cud she have continued with the concert if the thambura man took the (sahitya) papers off? She herself claimed that one of the attributes of a successful artist was memory.

[squims]

Mimicry?

[srutibedam]

Yes, that talking like a baby was very sweet...but also equally impressive was her candid statement that among the present singers, and she included herself, there are very few in whom it is possible to identify distinct qualities (or plus points to use her words) as may be done about the old masters. She made that observation after highlighting certain unique qualities of some stalwarts from yesteryears...people may differ in views, but for so experienced a singer to make such a statement is admirable...

[arasi]

Agreed.
And twenty or thirty years later, rasikAs will still speak of masters--yes, of those who perform now

[srutibedam]

Yes, they will speak, no doubt, but it remains to be seen what they will say about them...ha ha

[shankarabharanam]

Yes, they will speak, no doubt, but it remains to be seen what they will say about them...ha ha

[Sivaramakrishnan]

Rather unfamiliar items - perhaps the bane of thematic concerts - warrant reference notes for the singer?

[sridrect]

Rather unfamiliar items - perhaps the bane of thematic concerts - warrant reference notes for the singer?

Where is the professionalism ??? PLEASE DO NOT BLAME THE THEMATIC CONCERTS. THEY ARE ALL PAID TO DELIVER A NEAT PERFORMACE with 100% professionalism.

+ points of the concert:

1. The paper notes
2. The matching costumes, make-up
3. The mimicry
4. The answers which always appear so soaked in sugar, honey and tradition and blah blah!
5. A very interesting answer to talk about all current singers not have any individualistic style. The key is to include herself so that nobody can blame the response !!!!

The confidence comes from the fact that nobody will ever dare ask a question as to why are you singing from paper notes.

She talks so much about guru, stalwarts .......... somebody should ask her is this the way the great MLV trained her to sing from paper notes? Will her guru approve this act?

PS: Interestingly found a lady in the audience holding a binocular ??? Yes. People are very clear as to why they come to Sudha's concert. Maybe she wanted to see the intricate details of the costumes / jewellery !!!

[ganeshkant]

I also hate when people read their speeches.The concert didn't interest me at all but one of her answers where she said " some one with a sweet voice and bit of control over layam can make the audience sit but only a bit of innovation and hard?work like kanda or sangeerna kuraippu will make a musician out of a singer.Is it so ?Her definition for the diff.between singer & musician.

[sankark]

Thanks to rains, I chose to stay indoor y'day and got a chance to listen to her concert in Jaya TV y'day. I believe she was being honest and voiced her opinion on the difference between singer/musician, so I admired her for that. Also she sang that ranganathar oonjal song - though at a slightly slower tempo than the ones that I have heard (MSS & Vijaysiva) with non intrusive percussion. It certainly was pleasant.

sridirect - what has professionalism got to do with matching costumes? Isn't it rather professional that she presents herself also in a good manner and not only her music?

[rajumds]

I heard the concert on TV. It was one of the better concerts in the series. The theme was good and the song selection was also good - not the same old ones. In fact I was expecting "Ranganayakam and Jambupathe" for Srirangam & Thiruvanaikoil but she sang not so heard kritis. Her referring to the notes didn't diminish the musical value. In fact had it been radio concert no one would have known about this.

[sridrect]

sridirect - what has professionalism got to do with matching costumes? Isn't it rather professional that she presents herself also in a good manner and not only her music?

Ulaga Nayagan needs make-up to portray 10 different characters in DASAVATHARAM !!! Agreed. Does Carnatic musicians needs hyper make-up, expensive costumes and matching jewllery?

Please check out the videos of MLV Amma and MSS Amma as to how simplistic and divine they were.

Please do a random check at the next concert venue as to whether she would retain her so called "loyal" fans if she were to come in simple attire.

If her music is of the GREATEST DIVINE LEVEL, let the music alone speak !!!

[arasi]

sridirect,
Yes,
For some reason ornaments and ati alankAram for women (and at times--for men) has become a reality now.
Still, let's not forget that there were alankArap priyargaL even among men in olden days--Maharajapuram Viswantaha Iyer and Chowdiah for example--loved to dress in silk and jarigai (gold lace) bordered anga vastrams and wore perfume while many others prefered khAdi.
There is nothing wrong if one likes to dress up, but for it to become a norm is what bothers me. Why do even emerging performers need to over-dress? Beats me.

[sridrect]

arasi - thanks for understanding the spirit of my post.

Sudha has been the trendsetter and if the current younger generation is doing the same, we all know where the inspiration (?) is from !!!

Even if she tones down her make-up and expensive costumes, that would be a pleasant surprise !!!

[srikant1987]

Please check out the videos of MLV Amma and MSS Amma as to how simplistic and divine they were.

we all know where the inspiration (?) is from !!!

“She [MLV] would dress so beautifully for a concert, and gave me also advice on the subject. ‘People come to see, as well as to hear,’ she would say.”

-- Dr M Narmada
http://www.thehindu.com/arts/music/article2147171.ece

[arasi]

Srikant,
A good read. Thanks.

Yes, I've seen MLV dress beautifully for a concert. Others too. Yet, there is a difference between dressing beautifully and ostentatiously.
Also, upcoming performers tend to spend a pretty penny on their saris (may be, the jewelry is fake), which is a burden on their finances.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Sivaramakrishnan]

And did anyone notice - a beautiful kriti of Swati Tirunal (Paramaananda natana - Kedaram) was squeezed to the background during the 'rapid fire QA session' at the end of the telecast?

I had not gone to the programme. Could anyone confirm?

[Jigyaasa]

...cud she have continued with the concert if the thambura man took the (sahitya) papers off?

LOL... My mom was watching it on TV and I happened to pass by. All I could think was, what if those papers flew away when she was in the middle of a song. What would she do? I really would like to know... Any of these vocalists who use sheets for that matter. I've always been curious as to how they would react. I guess instrumentalists are lucky in this regard!

[rshankar]

Well, when artists use ePapers (iPads, MacBooks and what nots), probably to prevent such mishaps, people have things to say even then - kuch tO lOg kehEngE, lOgOn kA kAm hai kehnA

[devma36]

I thought all these days ONLY PERFORMANCE that counts! she uses papers or otherwise is immaterial, it's the quality of music that matters
you can't deny It was one of the best concerts in the series.

[kunthalavarali]

devma36,
I beg to disagree with you. Looking at notes and singing exposes under preparedness and uncertainty in the mind. This was clear when I heard Abhishek Raguram yesterday. He was singing with great confidence and abandon than many senior musicians who refer to notes.

[CommonMan]

@kunthalavarali: I agree completely......if an artist does not have sufficient time to memorize the lyrics for songs, why accept 100 concerts in 30 days? very unprofessional.....BTW did anyone notice that Sudha's reference to MLV has changed from "MLV Amma" to MLV......not sure if I am reading too much into it - but sounds a bit odd to thick-skulled oldies.....

[priyaram78]

Thematic concerts include many new and rarely sung songs. So if musicians use reference material to sing in these concerts, it doesnt mean they are unprofessional. They have done lot of research to present these songs.

[CommonMan]

@priyaram: I am not sure if the artists are given just a week's notice for such concerts...I guess the organizers, at least for popular artists, give a couple of month's notice to schedule a season concert.....moreover, artists like Sudha have been singing for years together in this television channel that they can be assured of a concert next season...so why not spread the research for 365 days so that she has enough time to memorize the lyrics for 6 songs?

[vasanthakokilam]

I know it is a commonly held notion among seasoned CM rasikas that refering to the notes is bad form. I just do not understand that. It is all our conditioning. This has nothing to do with any professionalism or the quality of the music. I fully understand if all they do is to look at the book and sing and not look at the audience, that would not be good but an occasional glance at it or turn the page once in a while should not be considered anything, good or bad.

Now think about how big a sheep we all are to the opinions of some authoritative figures. This notion probably got ingrained in us culturally through some folks in authority. Now, assume that if someone we all respect, especially a respected religious guru, says something like 'it is a mark of great disrespect to sing these divinely inspired songs without the official book in front of you. You would not get the right bhava without the book even if you had memorized it". People will complain if someone sings without the book. Though I made this up in the CM context, this is not without precedence. Kathakalakshebam bagavathars carry the books with them. I have seen some of them referring to it while telling the story. In fact, they will have a nice ornate stand on which to rest the book at the correct angle. Those books are carefully carried by the disciples and cared for. People may even consider the books themselves holy. Why not! Books always had that position in our culture. May be that type of respect needs to be given to the books that contain CM lyrics.

[devma36]

@kunthalavarali: It's really absurd comparing Abhishek with sudha; I consider him STILL singing in semi-classical level.

[CommonMan]

@kunthalavarali: It's really absurd comparing Abhishek with sudha; I consider him STILL singing in semi-classical level.

A few thoughts:
AR's music contains a lot of semi-classical touches, no doubt - but are you sure Sudha's style is traditional or pure classical/carnatic? is "thandhana naa hari or hare" from GNB's school (at best, it's devotional)? Both are in one way or the other non-sticklers to traiditonal style - so that doesn't become a reason for "non-comparison"....All the more, AGE is in Abhi's favor; being very young he has the luxury of time to get back to the traditional style. More importantly, he has the memory to sing "rare/new" songs without the help of a million A4 sheets. Most important, as of now, he still calls his grand dad "Raghu THATHA (instead of Raghu)" unlike Sudha calling MLV amma "MLV". Based on these aspects, you are right: perhaps we are better off not comparing the two.

[Jigyaasa]

...if all they do is to look at the book and sing and not look at the audience, that would not be good but an occasional glance at it or turn the page once in a while should not be considered anything, good or bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRlE6WVHtQY

You can decide which of those two categories this falls under. She looks down sidewards for every single line of the song.

[sridrect]

What is professionalism in Carnatic music ? (Given the fact that such a pristine and divine music has already become a profession)!

1. These artistes are given sufficient time to prepare... in fact the artistes also have the liberty to choose the topic.
2. If you are 100% professional carnatic musicians with ethics, you are supposed to memorize the song and practice it a million times (if required) to chistel it to perfection so that you can present the same with your manodharma.
3. Carnatic music is not some tamasha film music where one can do any kind of non-sense by looking at the lyrics. Here once you are completely done with memorising the song, one has to strive to bring out the emotion of the composer and also add other ingredients like briga, swarams etc etc. It is a hardcore exercise that needs utmost professionalism.
4. Please refer to Sanjay's blog wherein he states that it took him enormous time to get on top of that ragamalika and has profusely thanked his accompanying artistes in helping him take on the challenge.
5. As I said earlier, some of the decked-up stars have the guts to do whatever they want to do, since nobody dare ask them why can't they memorise the song and then present it.
6. There is nothing wrong in comparing AR with Sudha, since there was so much of freedom, joy and abundant happiness in the way the young man presented his concert whereas the other one was worried whether a swift roll of air will pull the plug (I mean wash away the paper notes).
7. If they have to sing from paper notes why do live concerts...? they would be better off with studio recordings.

[shankarabharanam]

I read the entire thread and what I can conclude is that these are ramblings of couple of fanatics.... Now one might question what forces me to write if I am just laughing at this entire thread. I couldn't catch the telecast because I was at the academy attending Gayathri Venkataraghavan's concert. Here are my few observations:

In case of an artist like Sanjay, who just looks at building repertoire, the bhavam element has been missing for quite sometime. I did attend couple of his concerts during the season. It wasn't that great. It isn't the same Sanjay that heard in 2005/06. Yes applaud him learning the lyrics byheart, where is the much needed embellishment. Also, nowhere is it said that one shouldn't have papers in front of you.

Let us accept the fact Sudha has tried her best to choose a different topic and execute it to the best of her abilities. Don't tell me you weren't moved by her Oonjal rendition or the dhanyasi rendition. Off late and at least this season I have seen a big change in her approach to a concert. And this is evident in the reviews that came in the papers. This entire thread is filled with cheap cribs like talking about her costume. She or any other artist has every right to wear what they want. It is very important to present yourself when you are in public life. Tell me don't men indulge in costumes. TMK, Pappu Venugopal Rao, and many from the young brigade sport their classy kurthas. So what is wrong if Sudha showcases her wardrobe.

Now coming to the quality of the Jaya TV concert, I found her Jaya TV concert to be very challenging. Let us accept that when someone talks of kshetra krithis, Dikshitar is some one who comes to our mind. But she decided to choose a gamut of composers and bring in a variety in the concert. There has been an element of research that has gone into this presentation.

What really irks me is that many users in this forum just outrightly don't accept the current generation of female artist and that Sanjay is 'THE GOD' of the current generation. I can't accept this idol worship. I am neither a Sudha worshipper nor a Sanjay worshipper. I listen to any kind of good music. But why don't you guys respect the artist for the effort they have put in to be here in this field. I can open a can of worms if needed. I don't want to do it because nobody is going to benefit. Why can't you accept the fact she has attempted to do something different. Looks like negativity has just creeped into your life. God save you. Give us a break. Enjoy music and try to respect people first. ]

[VK RAMAN]

But nowhere is it said that one shouldn't have papers in front of you - I fully agree to this. But CM fanatics believe that anything rendered by artist must be by-heart. I do not understand the logic. Being ignorant of this logic, some one may explain why there should not be a prompter for the artist; where in our CM policy it states the artist should not have prompter. Will the artist or the listener get get less of God or bhakti by looking at the lyrics?

[sankark]

What really irks me is that many users in this forum just outrightly don't accept the current generation of female artist and that Sanjay is 'THE GOD' of the current generation. I can't accept this idol worship. I am neither a Sudha worshipper nor a Sanjay worshipper. I listen to any kind of good music. .... Enjoy music and try to respect people first.

Amen. I was pleasantly surprised when I heard the oonjal song and the mAyuranatham in dhanyAsi. Real good they were. mAyuranAtham - the first ever time I heard that was in a CD of Vijay Siva, the CD which made me go lookup Vijay Siva and became an ardent fan of his music. That CD also intro'ed me to a beautiful mahAlakshmi karunA rasa lahari - which doesn't seem to be in concert circuit nowadays at all.

[bilahari]

Amen x 2 to what to shankarabharanam has written.

[Enna_Solven]

The very first time that I heard Sanjay was around 1998, his INRECO CD IP-5058 (Aravinda pada Malar-kApi). I fell hook, line and sinker for his voice, clarity and slight nasality. Started buying his CD's on annual trips to India. Over the years, while he has scaled heights he has also acquired some irritating habits. Vocal gymnastics is one. However, I will go to his concert if I get a chance, no doubts about that.

It is OK if the hero worshipers in this thread and a few others restrict themselves to calling him MASTER. Same goes for Abhishek worshipers too. BUT DON'T trash other musicians in the same breath. It would only demonstrate that you are completely biased and what you say has to be taken with salt. (I feel he should pay heed to the good advice of Pudukkottai Dakshinamurthy Pillai about leaving gymnastics to drummers. It is wonderful to watch Abhishek's enthusiasm, fiddling the mike, and smile while he performs. It is obvious that his head is exploding with a million ideas. However all that has to come out of a humanly-weak throat. He was overdoing it in the Jaya TV clips. History is replete with singers that lost their voice. The immaculate Chembai lost his voice in the middle of a concert...)

I too am guilty of writing disparaging comments about a great artist's concert, but based on what he delivered not on his appearance. I deleted it after listening to objections and realizing my mistake. Please don't trash Sudha's based on how she chooses to appear in public. She is a woman and will dress up. I go to work in shorts and old T-shirts pretty much through out the year, to the chagrin of my wife. I do not find a single Indian/American/Chinese female colleagues (serious engineers/PhD's) come to work not dressed up. Her serious commitment cannot be questioned because of dress or referring to papers. My friend is a witness to what physical pain she endured but still delivered a superb concert. She could have canceled it. She is not in dire straits to need the money from that concert.

Here is what TNS said in a Hindu article about HMB:

Seshagopalan says: "He had both yogam and yogyatai (luck and merit). During the Dussera processions, Bhagavatar used to dress up grandly, like a king. He had a regal personality too. Even on normal days, his dresses would have gold lace. He would not wear a veshti more than once and even his kumkum would be a combination of argaja and other scented substances. He would spray a liberal quantity of the finest attar (scent) on his dresses. His vethalai petti was like a small suitcase and his cardamom and clove came from Burma. The wood for his cipla was made of special sandalwood from Mysore and when it lost its timbre he would burn it as firewood. Once, when the Mysore Raja wanted to present him a gift he asked for two elephant cubs. Can you imagine anybody asking for such a present?" Even the Bhagavatar's walking stick was said to have been engraved with gold and silver and he moved around in a Daimler car.

He was grand, his music was grander. Have you listened to Sudh'a's melodious version of his mAtE? So, let us just critique music please.

PS: She named her new house 'Vasantham'. Her daughter is named MaLaVika. Don't read to much into her calling MLV as just MLV.

I am not a Sudha fan. I am a CM fan.

[arasi]

Enna solven,
You said it!
"I am not a (fill in the blank with any performer's name) fan. I am a CM fan."

Good words to start the new year with

[sridrect]

During the 2008 MMU concert, Sanjay talked about what his guru Shri Calcutta K S Krishnamurthy said about concert ethics.

His guru used to say the following:

"It is only around 8 to 10 songs that you will sing in a Kutcheri. So it is very important to memorise the same, bring it to perfection and then present it with all sincerity".

Amen x n , where n > 0 and n < infinity !!!!

[shankarabharanam]

Enna solven,
You said it!
"I am not a (fill in the blank with any performer's name) fan. I am a CM fan."

Good words to start the new year with

Well said Arasi Let us all just hope for a fabulous musical year ahead