TMK @ NGS, 31-Dec

Rajagopalan_V · Post by **Rajagopalan_V** » 01 Jan 2012, 10:57

'Intensely Personal Experience'

The following is the list of songs from TM Krishna's new year eve concert at NGS. With RK Sriramkumar on the violin, Arun Prakah on the mrudangam and Purushothaman on the kanjira.

Sri Nathathi Guruguho - Maya Malava Gowlai
Mathe Malayadwaja Pandya - Kamas
Chetashree Balakrishnam - Dwijavanti
Karubaruseyuvaru - Mukhari
Yochana - Darbar
Varuvaaro Varam Tharuvaaro - Sama
Dhava Vibho - Yamuna Kalyani
Jana Gana Mana - "With patriotic fervour, utmost respect and humility"

The following is a detailed review of the concert.

Wishing you all a healthy and musically enriching 2012.

Thanks.
Rajagopalan

P.S. well, if you are unable to decipher the review above, I am with you too. The 'experience' at NGS yesterday left all of us present there with such intense, indescribable feelings, emotions and bhavams. Where words, expressions, feelings and more importantly cliches will completely fall short of attempting to describe the elusive, akin to Godliness or NirguNa Bruhmam.

Not sure how many artists have taken the audience at a sabha to the puja rooms at their own, private homes, where (and when) they perform an intenesely personal, meditative, sublime 'communion and oneness with the Bruhman that God is, the sangita mata' - a sadhana, sadhagam or riyaz of unparalleled intensity. -- did it matter to some that it happened to be a concert platform with a paid audience?

So What if the audience went in there with an expectation to listen to a sumptuous concert?

Didn't everyone present there get an unmistakable feeling that the artist in question (genuinely hoping it was unintentional) try to rise above the art itself?

bassethound · Post by **bassethound** » 01 Jan 2012, 11:35

+1 Shri Rajagopalan!!

This concert was akin to the, Simon & Garfunkel's evergreen piece - Sound of Silence!

Great show by RKS, KAP and BSP in coping with TMK in taking the concert to this level! RKS in Chetha Sri was outstanding with his scholarly restraint. KAP and BSP's thani added synergism to the "sound of silence!"

narayan · Post by **narayan** » 01 Jan 2012, 13:10

Rajagopalan_V wrote: -- did it matter to some that it happened to be a concert platform with a paid audience?

I have a small suggestion here, at least for those who go to listen to artistes more than once. Forget the first time one pays, and then think of the ticket price at each concert as being for the previous concert of the artiste. So if we pay this time, we must have been happy the previous time, and if we are unhappy with this one, we stop going. So no hard feelings. It would even out over the long run and perhaps cause much less resentment. Would that work? At most one would have paid for 10 concerts and enjoyed 9, or something like that, which is not so bad.

gs · Post by gs » 01 Jan 2012, 19:02

Rajagopalan_V wrote: Jana Gana Mana - "With patriotic fervour, utmost respect and humility"

Did he stand at tension or stood at ease while singing? How did the audience respect the National Anthem? God will save CM from extinction like he saved it for the past seven or eight decades despite being bEsur sangeeth.

Rajagopalan_V · Post by **Rajagopalan_V** » 01 Jan 2012, 19:44

Mr. Narayan -- well, it's not just the monetary aspect of the ticket price. More about the efforts and pains people take to buy tickets for such 'premium' concerts. People queue up at the counters well before the counters open. And this includes scores of 'elderly' rasikas whose wish it is to listen to a 'wholesome' and 'pleasant' concert during the season. So, it is our hope that performers take these into consideration while structuring their concerts.

gs -- he was sitting along with the other accompanists. Well, not sure if the audience had a choice though -- when someone sings the National Anthem -- even if it is you or me -- it is expected that people stand up, join in the singing and pay respect to the Bharatha Matha. So, when it comes from a highly accomplished Carnatic Musician and a leading vidwan, along with his accompanists and with 'utmost respect and humility', does anyone ever have a choice but to respect this?

Isn't this as much about saving CM from extinction as it is about injecting patriotic fervour in us in this global village of 2012, wherein the nation-state-country identities are increasingly blurring?

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 01 Jan 2012, 21:01

The day when TMK starts a concert with "baa baa Black sheep" is not too far......

nri · Post by **nri** » 01 Jan 2012, 21:38

narayan,

Hope no forumite heeds to your small suggestion, this time.
Else, the rest of us will be
(i) deprived of some mission-critical sociological research and valuable insights out of it

and
(ii) reading one-artist reviews that sound more like a Socrates' prose which must be translated to English for commoners like me to understand.

Well, have you noticed the variety in reviews these days? do you see any resentment?
I don't, just some blood boiling which is OK for some of my own mission-critical purposes for staying here.
Happy new year.

sridrect · Post by **sridrect** » 01 Jan 2012, 22:05

Rajagopalan_V wrote:'

Jana Gana Mana - "With patriotic fervour, utmost respect and humility"

I am writing this after a rasika having confimed that all artistes were sitting while singing the National Anthem.

Utter non-sense and disgrace !!! If he decided to do whatever he wants to do on a CM concert platform (since he has been doing that this season) and sing the National Anthem he should have just asked everyone to just stand up ...! The mrindangam artiste should have come with a strap to hang the instrument around his neck ! No jokes....Since he has done some many PURATCHI this season he could have done this also.

For me sitting during National Anthem is blasphemy.....whether to sing this or not in a CM concert is secondary to me!!!!

squims · Post by **squims** » 01 Jan 2012, 22:49

I've actually heard that the national anthem is not to be sung/played after sunset. And I've also heard that there is no need to stand up when it is sung indoors. I've heard this from a military man. So I'm guessing that's pretty reliable info.

gs · Post by gs » 01 Jan 2012, 23:25

@Rajagopalan_V

I am not against TMK. I used to like his music and attended them in Chennai every given chance. I drifted when he started embarking on his zillion Avarthanam swaraprastharam and neraval which are totally devoid of raga bhavam and aesthetics. That's besides the point.

I am not even against his innovations. I believe 2 hrs is just about enough to do full justice to two, at the most three ragas. I would welcome anything to bring in such a format. That's also besides the point.

Singing Jana Gana Mana sitting down in a CM concert? "With patriotic fervour, utmost respect and humility"? If M.F. Hussain were to "With patriotic fervour, utmost respect and humility" change the design of our National Flag, would you have expected Parliament to adopt it? There are a few non negotiable sanctities even in this world. What he has done is utter crap - sitting and singing National Anthem in a CM concert.

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 02 Jan 2012, 00:25

What are you guys- the Carnatic sangh parivar? I see no difference between the commenters here and the rabid anti-M F Husain mob. Please give the performer some artistic freedom. For 40 years before Jana Gana Mana became the national anthem it used to be sung as a prayer song in brahmo Samaj. It was composed as a song, meant very much to be sung. No one is disrespecting the song by singing it in a classical music concert. I have heard the song performed as a Rabindra Sangeet number in Calcutta once. Don't imagine any insults where none was intended. I would highly appreciate more artistes coming forward to set to new tunes and perform gurudev Rabindranath Tagore's 'morning song' which is what it is. That a part of it was adapted as our national anthem does not take away anyone's right to perform it on a concert platform.

nri · Post by **nri** » 02 Jan 2012, 09:11

sridhar_rang wrote:Please give the performer some artistic freedom

If artists be given such freedom, how about a little to the listeners as freedom of expression?
Our constitution says that one should not prevent anyone from the singing the National Anthem anywhere; I believe the audience did not stop the artist during the concert, and just they were aghast as it was performed as part of the concert in a sitting position. If it was announced and sung with the performers and audience standing, no one would raise a brow.
When the song is elevated and authorized a National importance, do we still want to call it as someone's breakfast song? Nothing rabid on the commentators' part in this thread, I believe.

sridrect · Post by **sridrect** » 02 Jan 2012, 09:22

sridhar_rang wrote:What are you guys- the Carnatic sangh parivar? I see no difference between the commenters here and the rabid anti-M F Husain mob. Please give the performer some artistic freedom. For 40 years before Jana Gana Mana became the national anthem it used to be sung as a prayer song in brahmo Samaj. It was composed as a song, meant very much to be sung. No one is disrespecting the song by singing it in a classical music concert. I have heard the song performed as a Rabindra Sangeet number in Calcutta once. Don't imagine any insults where none was intended. I would highly appreciate more artistes coming forward to set to new tunes and perform gurudev Rabindranath Tagore's 'morning song' which is what it is. That a part of it was adapted as our national anthem does not take away anyone's right to perform it on a concert platform.

@sridhar_rang: Please do not bring in terms like sangh parivar and sidetrack the issue. I will not get into the details of what MFH did and how it is 100% unacceptable to the majority of this nation.

Today it is the National Anthem and deserves the utmost respect. PERIOD. Have you not seen people standup during National Anthem during functions held indoors; from central hall of parliament to village schools / panchayat board meetings ? I have seen even differently abled persons standing up with great difficulty bcoz of the emotions the song stirs up.

All I said was he should have just stood up and delivered the song. PERIOD. So please look at the post in detail before painting us with some color.

kunthalavarali · Post by **kunthalavarali** » 02 Jan 2012, 10:19

"I've actually heard that the national anthem is not to be sung/played after sunset"
But they do play after the inauguration of many major sports events, in fact, not only Indian but also from participating countries. Surely there are exceptions. I think the national flags on government buildings should be hoisted at sunrise and pulled back at sunset.

anandasangeetham · Post by **anandasangeetham** » 02 Jan 2012, 10:21

Code of conduct while singing The National Anthem.

V. GENERAL
(1) Whenever the Anthem is sung or played, the audience shall stand to
attention. However, when in the course of a newsreel or documentary the
Anthem is played as a part of the film, it is not expected of the audience to
stand as standing is bound to interrupt the exhibition of the film and
would create disorder and confusion rather than add to the dignity of the
Anthem.
(2) As in the case of the flying of the National Flag, it has been left to the
good sense of the people not to indulge in indiscriminate singing or
playing of the Anthem.
*******
Ministry of Home Affairs
Public Section

National anthem can be sung after sunset as during the end of a function or gathering..however it is mandated that proper decorum is maintained while singing the national anthem. it also stiupulates that during mass singing of the anthem care to be taken to render it in harmony. AND IT HAS TO BE SUNG IN THE STRICT TIME SPAN OF 52 SECONDS ONLY.though it is not mandated swaying, waving, throwing of hands and head during the renditions is also prohibited and solemn behaviour is expected.

Raga alapana, neraval, nadai variations and swara singing is STRICTLY PROHIBITED..

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 03 Jan 2012, 10:41

I suspect TMK's sense of occasion. Why did he choose to sing Janagana mana on 31st Dec. He could have gone for classics for the occasion such as "Ilamai Idho Idho" from sakalakalavallavan or "Iravum Nilavum" from Anjali. Clearly they were more suited for the occasion.

Regards
T

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 03 Jan 2012, 12:28

So if a violinist starts playing "the national anthem" he has the drop the violin and stand in attention?

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 03 Jan 2012, 12:38

I made some enquiries in internet and I came up with this interesting fact page.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 831AAS67xh

Let us have your opinions on this....thanks

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 03 Jan 2012, 12:44

Sam Swaminathan wrote:I made some enquiries in internet and I came up with this interesting fact page.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 831AAS67xh

Let us have your opinions on this....thanks

@Sam: Debait failed to add point no.8 which is "all or any of the above 7 points can be altered/modified/recreated/destroyed if an innovative artist such as TMK is even remotely involved in handling the Anthem"

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 03 Jan 2012, 13:30

Please read a conversation between me and my dad last night:

Thathwamasi: Appa - TMK did another innovation. Guess what he sang to end a concert on 31st Dec 2011
Appa: What?
T: I will offer you one guess. If you get it right, I will buy a special dinner for you.
A: Ok. So he ended the concert with an innovation is it? Then I would guess he ended with "Janaganamana"
T (startled): Oh my god..How did you crack it dad?
A: I just thought what would be the most trivial (editted) thing one can do to end a carnatic concert in the name of innovation and this was the first thing that flashed in my mind.

Haha... Im still stunned that my dad guessed it right. Well. Have to buy him a dinner this weekend.

Regards
T

sridhar_ranga · Post by **sridhar_ranga** » 03 Jan 2012, 14:13

Here is 90 year old DKP rendering the national anthem - so full of bhava, such clarity in every word she sings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQGaVdZsMy4

Here is a version by Pandit Jasraj:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zxdPa9RtwY

This one is by Jagjit SIngh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCjbxc1cfDw

And finally, this is supposedly in Tagore's own voice: seems to me the singer was in a hurry to finish it within 52 secs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBa46sjzjSE

poincare · Post by **poincare** » 03 Jan 2012, 15:29

Are we just reduced to this. Just look at the posts above... second guessing what the artist should have done; how dare he do this; "it is an idiotic thing", "he cannot even remotely handle the national anthem", "why did he choose to sing the national anthem", "he should sing "Ilamai Idho Idho" from sakalakalavallavan or "Iravum Nilavum" from Anjal".... Really all this for singing the national anthem! How many of you guys who posted this were actually at the concert? I was at the concert and I felt it was an sincere effort. First he asked his students on stage to get off the stage. He then said "with utmost respect and humility I ask you all to stand up for the National Anthem". I felt good about it and so did my friends. It was rendered with the sincerity and am sure with in 52 sec without any extra sangatis. How can one second guess what his motives were. Was there not a time when national anthem was played before the movies... In the soulful "full of bhava" rendition of DKP the national anthem goes for much longer than the alloted 52 seconds.. are we now going to have a whole blasting session of DKP for doing this.. come on folks.. lets us be subjective and fair in our criticism. Of course one has the freedom to get an anonymous account on raskias and post anything that they like... but it kind of spoils the good taste of discussions here. As A.G Gardiner once wrote, sometime we keep the rules but break the sprit for which the rules were made.

bassethound · Post by **bassethound** » 03 Jan 2012, 16:42

It is interesting to note that TMK's Nathadi Guruguho in MMG, Daru varnam in Khamas, Chetha Sri in Dwujawanti or the Mukhari that he rendered have any place for appreciation in this thread!!

Does this mean that the folks dominating this thread are devoid of any good taste for CM?? Sincerity of TMK is judged by one National Anthem by some is quite amusing!!

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 03 Jan 2012, 17:00

@Poincare - Im sorry if some of my posts offended you. But as much as you have the right to express that you and your friends felt good, others who did not feel good, also have the right to express the same and I have done the same. And surely I feel it does not take away the good taste of discussions here.

Im sure that its not the case of us keeping the rules but breaking the spirit. Its the case of someone else doing it and we are merely expressing our displeasure.

I have removed the offensive word from my earlier post now. And if need be, I can remove the entire post as well.

Regards
T

fduddy · Post by **fduddy** » 03 Jan 2012, 17:36

It looks like poincare, bassethound etc have just registered themselves to support the cause of TMK. Perhaps his fan following coming to his rescue |(

poincare · Post by **poincare** » 03 Jan 2012, 18:01

@fduddy I joined rasikas on Mar 2010,bassethound in 2009, both before you joined (june 2010) I am sure you can check this out by clicking on the user name, or merely looking below the user this could have saved you a post.

@thathwamasi I think you misunderstood my intention. It was not specifically addressed to you. I was more talking about the general nature of the posts in this thread. Please read them... for ex "The day when TMK or a similar clown" is definitely not in a good taste. I personally feel that any artist deserves slightly more than this. We may disagree with their music, performance, choice of songs ect but I thought this forum is talk about such things rather than name calling and insults. Just as we think that "Ariyakudi" format is THE only acceptable format, carnatic music predates Ariyakudi by centuries and I pretty sure that "Pacchimiriam Adiyappa" did not compose the varnam with the idea that this should be sung as the first piece or may be he did, we just dont know.
But there seem to be a rash personal negativity not only against TMK but even other artists. We can disagree, express our displeasure but I personally feel that it has to be on the content rather personal attacks. My post is not only in reference to this thread but a few threads over the last month. I might be alone with these thoughts.

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 03 Jan 2012, 19:19

poincare wrote:I might be alone with these thoughts.

You are not.

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 03 Jan 2012, 19:29

@poincare and Bilahari:
I apologize for using the word "clown" if some or many find it offensive: However, it is not directed at him, only at his (silly-if I may) behavior on stage....I am not against any particular artist; in fact, I was until recently, a very great fan of his music...so many such references stems out of sheer grievance that a grt talented artist is losing direction - I also acknowledge that he may find this change absolutely perfect and essential - but its just a matter of opinion...it is just the initial stickiness of not being able to accept that someone is completely (and unnecessarily, IMO - again, to him it might be perfectly necessary) switching gear from what was once a perfectly harmonious condition (why to rock the boat, that too an amazingly performing boat)

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 03 Jan 2012, 19:30

sureshvv wrote:So if a violinist starts playing "the national anthem" he has the drop the violin and stand in attention?

http://www.mediafire.com/?v9qcx9pcc3a1a6y

bassethound · Post by **bassethound** » 03 Jan 2012, 20:45

Definitely I support TMK. Not only for his music but more for his attitude. I think the kind of encouragement he bestows on the youngsters no other artists does. His having Tanjore Praveen Kumar on the mridangam, Dr.Hemalatha on the violin at MA, Alathur Rajaganesh on the kanjira at PSS, having Anirudh Athreya on the kanjira or Akkarai Subbulakshmi for more that 4 years now, etc. certainly makes me feel that he is more human than most of us. This kind of gesture cannot happen with a closed mind that many of us seem to revel upon! His only issue is he does not belong to a family of musicians to gloat about and hence, appear to have a definite "out of the box" treatise of CM. His disciples are reportedly singing very well and one of them is the President of YACM. These kids are all active in events like Svanubhava, etc. Persons of his generation have certainly added the required fillip to an otherwise dormant era of CM.

Certainly, the likes of TMK, RKS, et al have done much more to CM than any of his critics!

If art cannot be enjoyed and treated so, we will eternally feel dissatisfied.

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 03 Jan 2012, 21:04

bassethound wrote:

Certainly, the likes of TMK, RKS, et al have done much more to CM than any of his critics!

How can anyone verify this? btw, the fact that we rasikas throng to concerts, paying money and going through physical and mental hardships is as much service (if not more) to CM from rasikas side .....

bassethound · Post by **bassethound** » 03 Jan 2012, 21:15

I cannot understand the money paying rasikas if they are unable to appreciate, at least, 95% of the brilliant concert and still claim that they underwent hardship! If the National Anthem sung for 52 sec. (sung properly) is bestowed so much criticism and the rest of the 2 hrs and 2 min. is forgotten, there is something wrong with the closed minds of the audience. If the likes of abhang can find a place in a CM concert I presume anything with a ragam and talam is ok!

May be something like a juke box will be of help to such persons!!!!

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 03 Jan 2012, 21:37

commonMan,

Anyone compelling you to pay money and attend concerts that you do not enjoy ? or you just want to complain ?

poincare · Post by **poincare** » 03 Jan 2012, 21:42

CommonMan wrote:@poincare and Bilahari:
it is just the initial stickiness of not being able to accept that someone is completely (and unnecessarily, IMO - again, to him it might be perfectly necessary) switching gear from what was once a perfectly harmonious condition (why to rock the boat, that too an amazingly performing boat)

@CommonMan, are you implying that carnatic music is been in its "perfectly harmonious condition" only in the last 80 years since Ariyakudi. Some of these compositions are much more older than that. We even have records of concerts in pre Ariyakudi days where one ragam was rendered for hours. Have you ever considered the possibility that there might have been a CommonMan in the 1940's who might have disliked the very same concert format that you adore. One has every right to dislike a particular format or a presentation and voice their opinion, but to call it "silly" is a tiny bit presumptuous. In my opinion at least people get to hear the great Gowlipantu padam as a second piece rather than missing them towards the end because a fair chunk leave before the tani avartanam. Again it might not be you cup of tea and I respect it, but it is by no means silly. If I am not mistaken there was a Kalyani "Jatiswaram" in this concert, a composition of the Tanjore Quartet which predates Ariyakdi and had no place in his concert format, and Jatiswarams,Shabdams ect will have to live only in the dance domain. These are beautiful pieces too

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 03 Jan 2012, 22:12

We even have records of concerts in pre Ariyakudi days where one ragam was rendered for hours.

You mean, recordings? If so, which one?

poincare · Post by **poincare** » 04 Jan 2012, 05:10

vasanthakokilam wrote: You mean, recordings? If so, which one?

By records I mean accounts.. There are recordings of Maha Vaidhaynatha Iyer and Dhanammal and I positive there are others... Here is an excerpt from Rangaramanuja Ayyangar’s acclaimed classic, History of South Indian (Carnatic) Music.

"The incentive provided by the Maratha Royal house and the landed aristocracy of Tanjore has been noticed in previous chapters. The lavish grants and largess enabled musicians to get absorbed in Nada Vidya. Every one was free to cultivate his own aptitude to its fruition and specialise in the branch of his choice. It was such an atmosphere that produced a Todi Raghavier, a Todi Sundara Rao, a Sankarabharanam Narasayya, a Begada Narasihmayyangar, a Narayanagowla Kuppier, a Dolak Nannumiya and the Pallavi veterans. A Devadanam Krishnamoorti,....could elaorate any Raga for hours. Chinna Pakiri, ….played Begada for four hours. A four-hour Mridangam solo for nine days has been referred to....A procession led by a six hour Nagaswaram recital afforded a sumptuous music fare to hundreds of people filling the streets. This habit of sustained listening had great psychological value. It is in this atmosphere that Carnatic Music acquired its vast dimensions. Revelling in this flood of melody for years, “gas-light” bearers for processions, temple menials, cooks at weddings and even care-free vagabonds, who “had not where to lay their heads”, could present snatches of profound music that they had picked up at random. Such was the glory of those expansive days - before 1920."

Note the last sentence. There are several other accounts of how music was performed in the late 1800 and early 1900. The above was taken from the following web site.

http://kaminidandapani.typepad.com/my_w ... mance.html

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jan 2012, 05:24

Thanks poincare. I see it is more than a conjecture

I have heard about such marathon efforts and read snippets about it, and it is good to read about the details. Thanks.

Your point is well taken and jives with my wavelength. My only plea to those who react negatively to this kind of stuff is, feel free to offer your opinions and critiques on what was attempted but do not throw cold water on the attempt itself or the 'audacity' of people who try something new. That latter reaction is sad and counter productive for any vibrant system. Just don't worry about the survival of the system itself because something new is tried, the system is much bigger than any of us and it will take care of itself.

CommonMan · Post by **CommonMan** » 04 Jan 2012, 07:32

When I registered in this forum, a couple of my frds dissuaded me for a few reasons. 1. My strong views would be more suited for personal discussion (that too with select people who are old enough to have witnessed greatness of the past) and most likely be out of synch with the existing ones 2. The way I put things across is not this web-site friendly or appropriate...and for many more reasons, this is my pavamaana post..I won't waste anyone's time anymore - I wish not to distract rasikas from discussing about concerts (or artists) to responding to my opinions.....
PS: pls feel free to replace "pavamaana" with any song that is currently sung or likely to be sung in the future as the last piece in a concert...

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 04 Jan 2012, 08:06

CommonMan, this is what we do here. Argue our points respectfully. You do not have to sign off on that count. There is only so much you get out of talking about all this to just like minded people. And it is a two way street, giving your opinions and considering other's opinions. Please stick around, if you can. There are a lot of non-controversial topics too. Hope I caught you before you finished singing Pavamaana