It seems people have been registering at rasikas.org only to praise an artist sky high (not bad) or to write derogatory stuff about other artists. They may or may not know/care that what they write, once they write, lives on the web forever. The bad 10+ point defamation of TMK is already out on some other blog. Rasikas.org admins have received a scolding there for having loose standards for posting. I see a new user, within 5 posts, writing that such and such an artist got an academy award this year just because of connections at the top. His/her post has single sentence dismissal of artists.
What has this forum come to? Do any of these new people even try to read the past posts about stalwarts and their music? Do they care to see what sort of posts the older members wrote & how educative those posts are? Or is this just a another place to mouth off? Am I the only illiterate here that learns something about music? Are all the newcomers AIR Grade I artists or Subbudus?
The air coming out of one's mouth need not be irritating:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5K1nmOt ... re=related
Of late...
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VK RAMAN
- Posts: 5009
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:29
Re: Of late...
Enna_Solven: You are right on the point. Perhaps a probationary period, say for three months?, for all new comers such that their posts are vetted by mods before their posts appear. Being volunteer manned forum, is this possible?
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bilahari
- Posts: 2631
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 09:02
Re: Of late...
I agree with the need for a probationary period.
E_S, which blog is this? The TMK defamation post, IIRC, was self-proclaimed humour, but it was incredibly cheap. To be fair, a lot of the shrillness in the atmosphere recently has been due to old[er] members who seem to have no finesse whatsoever.
This is a reason I do not contribute as much to the forum anymore and prefer to privately discuss music with friends on the forum I have gained over the years.
E_S, which blog is this? The TMK defamation post, IIRC, was self-proclaimed humour, but it was incredibly cheap. To be fair, a lot of the shrillness in the atmosphere recently has been due to old[er] members who seem to have no finesse whatsoever.
This is a reason I do not contribute as much to the forum anymore and prefer to privately discuss music with friends on the forum I have gained over the years.
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Enna_Solven
- Posts: 827
- Joined: 18 Jan 2008, 02:45
Re: Of late...
Bilahari, don't stop writing. I may not log in and post but I read reviews by you, rajeshnat and other people that are not ad hominem.
My friend alerted me to this:
http://arvindsdad.blogspot.com/2012/01/1.html
My friend alerted me to this:
http://arvindsdad.blogspot.com/2012/01/1.html
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srikant1987
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
Re: Of late...
E_S,
Do reply to the reviews by Bilahari et al. That also "bumps" the reviews you reply to.
What is also sad and ironical is that reviews talking crassly about how attention-seeking some artistes are are themselves attention-seeking -- look at the number of views and replies they get!
Do reply to the reviews by Bilahari et al. That also "bumps" the reviews you reply to.
What is also sad and ironical is that reviews talking crassly about how attention-seeking some artistes are are themselves attention-seeking -- look at the number of views and replies they get!
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arasi
- Posts: 16877
- Joined: 22 Jun 2006, 09:30
Re: Of late...
Enna_Solven and VKR,
Not that there haven't been a few members who write reviews on just one performer, and don't participate in the forum inany other way.
Yes, of late, we have had more such posts and the threads go on and on--to the extent, we rasikAs may come across as a conglomerate of Subbudu, at times
We also tend to get carried away with our roasting--especially when it comes to someone like TMK.
Before we criticize, it's better that we pause and check for ourselves if what we say is constructive. No harm in airing our frustrations to such a degree--among ourselves in private.
Yes, once it's on the web for all to see, even our passing frustrations which go away, still stay in writing.They are recorded for ever, for all to see
Bilahari,
I don't see why you should not contribute as usual. It's all the more important that posts of substance continue along with stormy ones
Srikant,
You are right.
Not that there haven't been a few members who write reviews on just one performer, and don't participate in the forum inany other way.
Yes, of late, we have had more such posts and the threads go on and on--to the extent, we rasikAs may come across as a conglomerate of Subbudu, at times
We also tend to get carried away with our roasting--especially when it comes to someone like TMK. Before we criticize, it's better that we pause and check for ourselves if what we say is constructive. No harm in airing our frustrations to such a degree--among ourselves in private.
Yes, once it's on the web for all to see, even our passing frustrations which go away, still stay in writing.They are recorded for ever, for all to see
Bilahari,
I don't see why you should not contribute as usual. It's all the more important that posts of substance continue along with stormy ones
Srikant,
You are right.
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padavarnam
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 05:42
Re: Of late...
I don't think my intention was that of taking out on any artist, I already edited that post. I only merely wanted to point out that this particular concerts were not the best at academy this year in the respective slots to deserve the prize. As the judges and each one can of us have our tastes. I have heard better concerts by each of these musicians and I do like Sumithra's strict adherence to traditional values. Even this concert was good but not the one where she made a great impact. And when people join a forum just as a part of rasika, it has to be only on the basis of a few wanting to air what they think is what has to be there, I will happily quit with this post.
Last edited by padavarnam on 07 Jan 2012, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
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srikant1987
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
Re: Of late...
padavarnam,
Your post was OK ... except for the "connections" part. I haven't listened to most of the women in Sumithra's slot (at all, let alone their Academy concerts this year), so I can't really comment. But ultimately, a "concert" is a non-sentient entity, it's the artistes who get the award, so why not heartily congratulate Sumithra?
Your post was OK ... except for the "connections" part. I haven't listened to most of the women in Sumithra's slot (at all, let alone their Academy concerts this year), so I can't really comment. But ultimately, a "concert" is a non-sentient entity, it's the artistes who get the award, so why not heartily congratulate Sumithra?
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Nick H
- Posts: 9473
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 02:03
Re: Of late...
We join this forum to write about a shared interest, but we are not always going to share the same viewpoints or opinions. Thence lies conversation, which can become robust at times.
It is a forum. It is a public place.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion; others are entitled to disagree. The only single thing that I would, and have, asked of the moderators, is that they nip things in the bud when robust conversation becomes abuse. They have failed to do this in the past, and I believe that the credibility of the forum suffers very much. It still bears scars.
Otherwise, we have an idea of how seriously to take each other, and how much weight to attach to any particular post.
It is a forum. It is a public place.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion; others are entitled to disagree. The only single thing that I would, and have, asked of the moderators, is that they nip things in the bud when robust conversation becomes abuse. They have failed to do this in the past, and I believe that the credibility of the forum suffers very much. It still bears scars.
Otherwise, we have an idea of how seriously to take each other, and how much weight to attach to any particular post.
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Enna_Solven
- Posts: 827
- Joined: 18 Jan 2008, 02:45
Re: Of late...
Nick, I am not against robustness but personal attacks against upcoming youngsters is bad. These people with their brilliant minds do not really have to do what they do. They can happily quit music and start earning good money in their chosen backup profession. We will be the losers.
Most of these young masters have been learning music close to twenty years before they come before us and sing in these prestigious sabhas. Each generation will have its maverick; we just need to learn to separate out the milk from the water like the legendary swan, not roast them for what they do.
I wish VK & Co. would moderate more.
Most of these young masters have been learning music close to twenty years before they come before us and sing in these prestigious sabhas. Each generation will have its maverick; we just need to learn to separate out the milk from the water like the legendary swan, not roast them for what they do.
I wish VK & Co. would moderate more.
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tiruvarur
- Posts: 25
- Joined: 19 Dec 2011, 13:24
Re: Of late...
Every job comes with its bouquets and brickbats. Nobody needs to doubt the brilliance of today's youth. It is evident in every walk of life, and is only on the increase with each succeeding generation. A musician (or for that matter anyone in the public eye) gets a lot of accolades and must take it with humility, while at the same time accept criticisms with an iron will. If he/she cannot approach the ups and downs of public life with equanimity, no matter how brilliant, that life isn't suited for them. So Enna_Solven, while your point is valid to some extent, it won't work for anyone in the long run. Cushioning the bright youngsters from a handful of people on rasikas.org isn't going to help them face criticisms from the much larger public.Enna_Solven wrote:Nick, I am not against robustness but personal attacks against upcoming youngsters is bad. These people with their brilliant minds do not really have to do what they do. They can happily quit music and start earning good money in their chosen backup profession. We will be the losers.
Most of these young masters have been learning music close to twenty years before they come before us and sing in these prestigious sabhas. Each generation will have its maverick; we just need to learn to separate out the milk from the water like the legendary swan, not roast them for what they do.
I wish VK & Co. would moderate more.
As for moderation, seriously, who should moderate whom? Why should there be so much intolerance towards certain posts/posters, when pages and pages are devoted to tearing apart one musician? Certain established members of this forum have an untarnished track record of only attacking targeted musicians. Just by looking at their posts one can tell who they like/dislike! Do they become pure by virtue of just being old members here? Guys, it is time to adopt some of that famed Gandhian tolerance towards fellow-rasikas, whether or not they are members of this forum!
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
Re: Of late...
When I saw the thread, I know sooner or later it will become an action item for the mods
There is not a whole lot new I can say. E_S, we do moderate when we see intentional attack and abuse but not when people just offer their personal opinions. I do not recall which incident Nick is referring to where nothing was done. But as Nick wrote, opinions are just opinions. Best antidote for an opinion is a counter opinion if you have one. If we sense the original negative poster has an axe to grind, the mods can do something about that to tone it down.
Opinion policing is a slippery slope. Instead of the mods doing it, best opinion policing policy is to offer counter opinions. The case of 'padavarnam' editing his post based on prodding by another person is a good example. But you can still say that padavarnam was too mean.
You wish we moderate more, there are others who vehemently oppose even the minimal content moderation we do now. Such vehement opposition is sometimes expressed by 'yelling' at us
BTW, I do not understand why the arvindsdad blog site gave significance to the silliness by grsastrigal. There were counter opinions to his "humor" which was all lost by just lifting that c*ap alone. Oh well..
1) This is a user provided content site, as is any forum of this kind. If you do not want to post because you think rest is junk, what remains will obviously be junk. That is a self fulfilling prophecy. Do not succumb to that, if you can avoid it. On the flip side, the more non-junk you contribute, the less is the proportion of the junk. ( Bilahari, take note and do not stop posting ).
2) Similarly, others have complained that we do not discuss any great topics. My take on that is, What are you waiting for? Start one.
3) It is an unreasonable expectation to live in a controversy free forum. One way to mitigate is to reduce the % of controversial topics by increasing the non-controversial topics and general discussion topics.
4) We have seen an increase in posts that praise artists unabashedly. I think the members are all seasoned enough to take it for it is and move on. They are the idiots to think that the members are idiotic enough to swallow what they offer lock, stock and barrel.
Having said all that, members do point out to the mods very frequently ( using the Report This! link ) about things they want the mods to take action. The mods do something about them most of the time. They may not get back to you on what was done or why something was not done etc. Don't feel bad if you alert was not acted upon. These are all judgement calls made with not more than a minute to think about. So, do send them in but keep in mind the current limits on content moderation.
About the 'initial lock out period', I am thinking about it. On the face of it, it looks attractive but I am not convinced of the net benefits, other than adding a lot of overhead to the process. I can see it working if we have different standards for posters who have just signed up but that is a big policy change. ( on the practical side, I do not know if the forum software supports such a thing ).
There is not a whole lot new I can say. E_S, we do moderate when we see intentional attack and abuse but not when people just offer their personal opinions. I do not recall which incident Nick is referring to where nothing was done. But as Nick wrote, opinions are just opinions. Best antidote for an opinion is a counter opinion if you have one. If we sense the original negative poster has an axe to grind, the mods can do something about that to tone it down.
Opinion policing is a slippery slope. Instead of the mods doing it, best opinion policing policy is to offer counter opinions. The case of 'padavarnam' editing his post based on prodding by another person is a good example. But you can still say that padavarnam was too mean.
You wish we moderate more, there are others who vehemently oppose even the minimal content moderation we do now. Such vehement opposition is sometimes expressed by 'yelling' at us
BTW, I do not understand why the arvindsdad blog site gave significance to the silliness by grsastrigal. There were counter opinions to his "humor" which was all lost by just lifting that c*ap alone. Oh well..
1) This is a user provided content site, as is any forum of this kind. If you do not want to post because you think rest is junk, what remains will obviously be junk. That is a self fulfilling prophecy. Do not succumb to that, if you can avoid it. On the flip side, the more non-junk you contribute, the less is the proportion of the junk. ( Bilahari, take note and do not stop posting
). 2) Similarly, others have complained that we do not discuss any great topics. My take on that is, What are you waiting for? Start one.
3) It is an unreasonable expectation to live in a controversy free forum. One way to mitigate is to reduce the % of controversial topics by increasing the non-controversial topics and general discussion topics.
4) We have seen an increase in posts that praise artists unabashedly. I think the members are all seasoned enough to take it for it is and move on. They are the idiots to think that the members are idiotic enough to swallow what they offer lock, stock and barrel.
Having said all that, members do point out to the mods very frequently ( using the Report This! link ) about things they want the mods to take action. The mods do something about them most of the time. They may not get back to you on what was done or why something was not done etc. Don't feel bad if you alert was not acted upon. These are all judgement calls made with not more than a minute to think about. So, do send them in but keep in mind the current limits on content moderation.
About the 'initial lock out period', I am thinking about it. On the face of it, it looks attractive but I am not convinced of the net benefits, other than adding a lot of overhead to the process. I can see it working if we have different standards for posters who have just signed up but that is a big policy change. ( on the practical side, I do not know if the forum software supports such a thing ).
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
Re: Of late...
The above was the dry administrative stuff. Now, speaking for myself:
E_S made the observation that the seasoned rasikas are not without blame with their compartmentalized thinking ( to put it nicely ). They always fall back on the golden years to trash anything they do not like. (It is strictly not limited to only such seasoned rasikas.)
My own feeling is, many of those people have inherited a portion of those opinions. It is not their own, well reasoned, well-felt opinions. Carnatic music always had various 'camps'. it is a disease but people do not realize it. It is a disease that prevents them from enjoying music to the fullest and with an open heart. In addition to preventing them from enjoying music from the other camp, they also listen to lot of bad music from their own camp, since they have lost the basic ability to discriminate between good and bad performances, they only know to distinguish between the 'the camp I am supposed to like' and 'the camp I am not supposed to like'. That is very sad indeed but if you think you are immune to it, examine yourself very carefully.
E_S made the observation that the seasoned rasikas are not without blame with their compartmentalized thinking ( to put it nicely ). They always fall back on the golden years to trash anything they do not like. (It is strictly not limited to only such seasoned rasikas.)
My own feeling is, many of those people have inherited a portion of those opinions. It is not their own, well reasoned, well-felt opinions. Carnatic music always had various 'camps'. it is a disease but people do not realize it. It is a disease that prevents them from enjoying music to the fullest and with an open heart. In addition to preventing them from enjoying music from the other camp, they also listen to lot of bad music from their own camp, since they have lost the basic ability to discriminate between good and bad performances, they only know to distinguish between the 'the camp I am supposed to like' and 'the camp I am not supposed to like'. That is very sad indeed but if you think you are immune to it, examine yourself very carefully.
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Enna_Solven
- Posts: 827
- Joined: 18 Jan 2008, 02:45
Re: Of late...
VK, thanks for measured response, as always 
I will add to the good posts, if I can.
I will add to the good posts, if I can.-
cmlover
- Posts: 11498
- Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 22:36
Re: Of late...
Caveat emptor Let the reader beware
Has been mostly our philosophy. Of course malicious/obscene posts are chopped forthwith.
Freedom of speech in decent language is not moderated unless it is an outright lie or objectionable as when pointed out by other members.
We ban 'jokers' /miscreants and saboteurs
Posts with a commercial motive are not permitted.
Our admin should decide if there is a need for change in policies..
Has been mostly our philosophy. Of course malicious/obscene posts are chopped forthwith.
Freedom of speech in decent language is not moderated unless it is an outright lie or objectionable as when pointed out by other members.
We ban 'jokers' /miscreants and saboteurs
Posts with a commercial motive are not permitted.
Our admin should decide if there is a need for change in policies..
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Enna_Solven
- Posts: 827
- Joined: 18 Jan 2008, 02:45
Re: Of late...
I am not out to mend the world from its bad habits. However, rasikas.org need not be an exact replica of the mean outside world. It can be a better place, as it is smaller.Cushioning the bright youngsters from a handful of people on rasikas.org isn't going to help them face criticisms from the much larger public.
Oh, the moderators will moderate the posts. You just have not heard/seen them. Though I pointed out new rasikas, it is equally applicable to all posters. Just because some old posters continue their bad habits, the new ones need not join them. Frankly, have you gone through the years worth of posts here and seen the goodness for yourself?As for moderation, seriously, who should moderate whom? Why should there be so much intolerance towards certain posts/posters, when pages and pages are devoted to tearing apart one musician?
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padavarnam
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 05:42
Re: Of late...
Dear E_S
I guess that statement was amended way back, anyways I guess you haven't understood my posting where I clearly mentioned I have nothing against any artist we are mentioning. I for sure know that particular concert at the academy though good,was not her best but she has already been awarded, even this I mentioned because the thread was discussing Sanjay's RTP at length, who actually delivered a very good concert. Why didn't you react for that? Anyways, these are besides the point. I have an open mind to music too and one posting of mine will not force any musician to give up their career if they are serious about their pursuits. Firstly, stop worrying so much on this. I have made other posts too about Khanjira players etc in other threads. Stop questioning others intentions just because a particular posting is in disagreement with your views. Each of us have opinions and when a point was raised it was already corrected within a few mins of the posting. let's just move on.
I guess that statement was amended way back, anyways I guess you haven't understood my posting where I clearly mentioned I have nothing against any artist we are mentioning. I for sure know that particular concert at the academy though good,was not her best but she has already been awarded, even this I mentioned because the thread was discussing Sanjay's RTP at length, who actually delivered a very good concert. Why didn't you react for that? Anyways, these are besides the point. I have an open mind to music too and one posting of mine will not force any musician to give up their career if they are serious about their pursuits. Firstly, stop worrying so much on this. I have made other posts too about Khanjira players etc in other threads. Stop questioning others intentions just because a particular posting is in disagreement with your views. Each of us have opinions and when a point was raised it was already corrected within a few mins of the posting. let's just move on.
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anonymityatlast
- Posts: 50
- Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 11:36
Re: Of late...
padavarnam,
Your replies here remind me of this little joke:
At a little restaurant, a frustrated man says to his friend, "Just why do women take everything so personally?!"
Four women get up from their tables and say, "I don't!"
Your replies here remind me of this little joke:
At a little restaurant, a frustrated man says to his friend, "Just why do women take everything so personally?!"
Four women get up from their tables and say, "I don't!"
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Enna_Solven
- Posts: 827
- Joined: 18 Jan 2008, 02:45
Re: Of late...
I read the post before you corrected it. I didn't see your correction as I didn't want to go back to that thread. Started this thread later without realizing you had amended your post. Simple as that. No further agenda.padavarnam wrote:Dear E_S
Why didn't you react for that? Anyways, these are besides the point. Stop questioning others intentions just because a particular posting is in disagreement with your views. Each of us have opinions and when a point was raised it was already corrected within a few mins of the posting. let's just move on.
Regarding viewpoints: If you say concert 'A' was good and I say it was not good, that is a viewpoint difference. If I say an artist is better than others and should have won the award and you disagree, that too is a difference of opinion. Both these can perfectly coexist on the forum. But the 'connection' part was not an opinion but an insinuation (that you retracted, which I didn't see). Hence I was troubled.
I don't carry any grudge and I can move on. Frankly I cannot let go off this forum. I keep telling myself that I should delete Firefox bookmark and shred the password. I don't know when I can go to concerts and don't have to read about them
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padavarnam
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 07 Jan 2012, 05:42
Re: Of late...
E_S - will see you in a concert or rasikas meet if we both can make it.
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Enna_Solven
- Posts: 827
- Joined: 18 Jan 2008, 02:45
Re: Of late...
Therein lies the problem and the source of my anguish. I can make it to Chennai only during summer, when the sabhas are dry. I can only hope to hear something at Hamsadhwani/Asthika samajam over the noise of the industrial pedestal fans and the bite of the mosquitoes.padavarnam wrote:E_S - will see you in a concert or rasikas meet if we both can make it.
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srikant1987
- Posts: 2246
- Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 12:23
Re: Of late...
E_S, Naada Inbam usually has between 5 and 10 concerts on all months except December. Especially in April, it has the SV Krishnan Birthday Series. It has good acoustics.
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carnatricks
- Posts: 68
- Joined: 27 Jul 2011, 13:21
Re: Of late...
i completely agree. here is a similar instance. i was taken aback by this particular post.Enna_Solven wrote:I am not against robustness but personal attacks against upcoming youngsters is bad. These people with their brilliant minds do not really have to do what they do. They can happily quit music and start earning good money in their chosen backup profession. We will be the losers.
Most of these young masters have been learning music close to twenty years before they come before us and sing in these prestigious sabhas. Each generation will have its maverick; we just need to learn to separate out the milk from the water like the legendary swan, not roast them for what they do.
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18200
i am a great fan of sri sanjays and i have seen this particular rasika post extensively, and quite nicely, on sri sanjays music.
but his post where he takes digs at the youngster for being tmks student and redirecting it to the tmk thread is not in good taste at all.
i decided not to reply to that post when it came up. but since we are talking about similar issues i thought i should point it out.
there is not a single word about rithwick's music, or his rendition of mayamma, bohindra shayinam or his dinamani vamsha and maybe? niraval swarams for that. he points out that the notice board below shasthri hall says rr (disc of tmk) because of which he feels an air about the youngster. i have been following many youngsters this season. the ones with the firm heads are the ones producing good music. i just felt very bad to have come across such a post. i was not at that concert. else i would have post the song list as a reply and commented on the concert. 2 of my friends went and they really enjoyed it. especially his harikamboji ragam and kharaharapriya niraval for samanamevaru at paluku paluku i am told. why not offer more constructive views on youngsters? just a suggestion from someone who has had a wonderful time so far on this forum who hopes for it to be a better place.
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vasanthakokilam
- Posts: 10958
- Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 00:01
Re: Of late...
carnatriks, I understand your pain.
>"i just felt very bad to have come across such a post."
Don't let others opinions get to you. This forum can drive you crazy.
>"from someone who has had a wonderful time so far on this forum who hopes for it to be a better place."
Good sentiment but words like 'better' have to be defined differently. 'Better' as in absence of or lesser number of posts that you perceive as hurtful...Probably not. But, statistically speaking, if we all try, we can skew the normal curve towards the better side.
>"i just felt very bad to have come across such a post."
Don't let others opinions get to you. This forum can drive you crazy.
>"from someone who has had a wonderful time so far on this forum who hopes for it to be a better place."
Good sentiment but words like 'better' have to be defined differently. 'Better' as in absence of or lesser number of posts that you perceive as hurtful...Probably not. But, statistically speaking, if we all try, we can skew the normal curve towards the better side.
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varsha
- Posts: 1978
- Joined: 24 Aug 2011, 15:06
Re: Of late...
A wrong assumption , in the first place . What will live on is what touches you . The rest will merely exist . Just like the thousand of blokes you come across in life .They may or may not know/care that what they write, once they write, lives on the web forever.