Ringing Finally Ended, but There’s No Button to Stop Shame

[ramanathan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/13/nyreg ... ml?_r=1&hp

[srikant1987]

Thank you, ramanathan. It is sad that this should happen to Patron X.

Hope CM concerts receive such serious listening too. In this context, I must mention that the shruti drone definitely brings and keeps focus on the music, and allows for more accidental noise.

[Nick H]

Even I feel sorry for Patron X. It happens, and in this case was most certainly an accident of unfamiliarity with a new phone.

Contrast Patron X with Rasika Y, who, after thirty seconds realises it is their phone ringing, slowly takes the phone from pocket or handbag, adjusts reading glasses to see who the call is from, and meanders out of the hall to take the call.

Rasika Z, another offender, in a similar interview to that Patron X gave, might reply...

"I didn't even hear the phone. My deaf father was demonstrating to me how the pallavi of the previous piece should have been sung; how could I hear my phone? And, when I answered it, I only talked long enough to tell my wife about the songlist. I really don't see what the fuss is about."

Confession: it happened to me only two weeks ago, although I stopped it smartly enough. :$

By The Way... I have long wondered why people who want to chat to music don't just put on a CD at home. Only recently, it occurred to me that they might ask me, "If you want to listen to music in uninterupted peace, why don't you put on a CD at home?"

[squims]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUcYqdUBvQg

Look at the top rated comments on that video. There'd be a bloodbath in carnatic concerts by those standards!

BTW, if there's one thing I make sure before a concert, it is that I've put my phone on silent. And no matter what, I won't receive a call.

[Nick H]

Chennai audience behaviour would be considered bad in the world's rock concerts, let alone classical.

[uday_shankar]

Chennai audience behaviour would be considered bad in the world's rock concerts, let alone classical.

We're at the "rock" bottom.

And we're quite hard-a**ed about it .

[squims]

I've never been to a concert at Chennai, but if the audience behaviour there is worse than most places in Bangalore, I'm not sure I ever want to!

[Nick H]

We're at the "rock" bottom.

And we're quite hard-a**ed about it .

Now I know why I have to take my cushion to concerts! ]

[mahavishnu]

During the last music season, I was at a concert of a well established lady vocalist at the BVB hall in Mylapore. Right in the middle of the violinist's raga essay (Kapinarayani, I think) we heard this obnoxious ringtone. Not only was the ringtone loud and cacophonic, by comparison it would have made the iPhone ringtone sound like it was actually in the same key as Mahler's 9th.

This mami in the second row ruffles through her very loud plastic bag and just when we thought she would kill the incoming call, she actually answered the phone with a piercing "HELLO"!

She described where she was and that it was ok to talk because it was only the violinist playing then. And after an entire minute of meaningless banter she hung up.

All eyes were turned towards her, including very annoyed looking performers on stage. If I had a cushion, I would have buried my face in it.

But the lady did not bat an eyelid. She just put the phone back in the crumply plastic bag (read loud) and picked up a copy of kumudam from the bag and starting reading it.

[Nick H]

And nobody tapped her on the shoulder and asked her to shut up?

I've tried hard to practice "concert yoga" over the past few years, and to not be affected by the small interruptions and irritations ... but something like this would be too much.

On top of the concert yoga, I've also found that if people are requested, with a smile, not to, for instance, put the talam in my ear, or by hitting the arm of their chair with a ring on their finger, or please not to converse, they quite often do smile back and stop. Everybody gets carried away sometimes! Of course, ten minutes later they may have forgotten again, and then it is time to redouble the yoga effort

...because it was only the violinist playing then.

That is a whole separate bad attitude that needs to be addressed.

[vasanthakokilam]

There are all sorts of other tones that can emanate from these modern phones. In Patron X's case it was the alarm and not an inbound phone call. There are also sounds when an alert comes in, a calendar event fires etc. And if someone is not familiar with the phone they would not know how to turn off all those settings before entering the concert hall. Like AirPlane mode, Apple and other manufacturers should think of having a 'Concert Mode'!!

[maduraimini]

Poor patron X. I sympathize with him- but can understand the vexation of the artist as well as the audience. It used to be crying babies and chattering mamis before the cell phone age. Now it is the cell phone ringing at inappropriate times. When I go to concerts here, they always ask us to turn off our cell phones before the concert. In spite of that, you can always hear a phone ringing in the back- may be late comers who did not hear the message. But they are not loud or the person goes out to answer, unlike the bold and brash mami who talked in the middle of a concert and kept her cool . Like Nick says, there are the people behind you, tapping on the back of your chair, person sitting next to you doing the talam in the arm of the chair (it is common for both seats) and things like that. But this must have been very irritating to the artist, as it was right there in the front. The Iphones and Androids have bells and whistles and unless you are a techie, it is hard to decipher everything . I can say, leave the phone at home- but if you need to call in an emergency after the concert you are like an orphan. The moral of the lesson is, if you have a new phone and you are unaware of its ways, sit way in the back!

[VK RAMAN]

What is so hard in turning off the phone immediately one hears the ring if the holder does not know who to stop the ringing and in case they forget to turnoff the phone as they entered the auditorium

[rajumds]

Many of the mobile users particularly senior citizens are not even aware that a phone can be put in silent mode.

Is there any app which will send out an automated text message to the caller, when an incoming call lands in silent mode

[Nick H]

If the call arrives in silent mode, then so will the text message!

The technology is that, when in silent mode, the phone vibrates, and you feel that in your pocket. Doesn't work if it is in your bag, of course.

If it were not for my individual situation in which some emergency might happen in which I desperately need the help of my Tamil-speaking wife (on the way, or on the way back) I'd gladly go back to just land lines. This obsession with being in touch and available to the world all the time does not suit me at all.

Having said that, I do not turn off my phone in a concert; I do, occasionally, exchange text messages during a concert, and, as long as their keypad does not beep, I have no objection at all to others doing so. As long as it is silent and unobtrusive, I really don't care what my concert neighbours do: we do not have to sit there in handcuffs!

[kunthalavarali]

With the speakers blaring in the Chennai CM concerts the little cell phone sound gets drowned. Well that is how people with cell phone "on" may be thinking. After all the pin drop silence in Western classical concerts is never never observed in CM concerts.

[vasanthakokilam]

Nick, not sure if your reference to text message is in response to rajumds, but rajumds is talking about an interesting feature where the caller gets a text that the party he is calling has his phone in silent mode. It is like a canned message "I am in a concert, I can not get to your call now, call me back in 3 hours". rajumds, It is interesting enough for me to look into it. Hope you meant it in the sense I understood it.

BTW, this patron X case is a design problem for phone designers. Not in terms of a problem that can not be solved but as a problem of intelligent choices and compromises. Let us say that the mute toggle button that silences the phone calls also shuts off clock alarm, then if you forget to turn on the darn thing at the end of the concert, you end up missing your flight the next day morning.

Patron X case is an edge case: A new phone with alarm set who happens to sit in the front row of a concert and the alarm happened to go off. It is hard to put in perfect solutions for all edge cases. Then the mainstream cases will behave very poorly. Now that we are very aware of this particular situation, we can think of some 'point' solutions. My idea of a 'Concert Mode' which shuts off all audio from the phone will work. It has its problems but it is not that different from the 'Air plane mode'. People understand what it means and seem to handle it OK and instinctively turn it back on after the plane lands.

[anandasangeetham]

just a thought....do we have classical orchestra performing during wedding receptions, hotel dinners, etc? CM artists are sued to performing in most chaotic situations/environments with lots of noise, walking around, clatter of dishes, scrapping of chairs etc..then again I think it is more of a "culture" what i mean here is the same person behaves differently in different geographies....for example almost everyone in India do one or most/all of these - spit in public, urinate in public, shout loudly in any gathering, talk at the same time in meetings, strictly adhere to the traffic violations, etc....But the very same people when given an opportunity to travel abroad where the penalty fines are stiff..they behave as if they were born with such super discipline? how? on the rasika behaviour too..most of us seem to get overboard (as NICK said and I am one of guilty ones in tapping the talam perfectly wrongly and trying to replicate the mrudangam beats - again wrongly- though taking care not to be too obtrusive) clapping at the wrong time, every time the artist reaches the upper pa ..a rain of applause descends...some times even when the artist reaches upper ma...at times it affects the artist manodharma too which most of us overboarded rasikas tend to ignore...I am most of the times in awe of the western audience in their much too good to be true discipline...but I also sometimes feel that one has to be let his emotions out so as to really enjoy...There I have very successfully written something which doesnt convey anything particular

[Nick H]

Nick, not sure if your reference to text message is in response to rajumds, but rajumds is talking about an interesting feature where the caller gets a text that the party he is calling has his phone in silent mode.

Nope... that's entirely a new one to me! despite being a bit of a techie, and a bit of a gadgetphile, I've never much been into phones.

I know one thing, though: if I set my alarm in silent mode, as Patron X did, I expect it to be silent. Having done so, if an alarm went off, I'd be in exactly the same situation as Patron X. This was an iphone? Another little :devil: to nip at Mr Job's heals!

do we have classical orchestra performing during wedding receptions, hotel dinners, etc? CM artists are sued to performing in most chaotic situations/environments with lots of noise, walking around, clatter of dishes, scrapping of chairs etc..

Historically, yes. Historians correct, but I think that quite a lot of what we now consider serious Western classical music was indeed semi-formal background music of its day. Strauss wrote dance music for people to actually dance to!

I don't think that most people have a problem in adjusting both their own behaviour and their expectations of others when switching between temple performances, marriage performances, and concert-hall performances. A few do. A few find difficulty, too, in adjusting between classroom and concert hall.

My phone rang, once, in an English Cathedral. My wife was with me, and it never occurred to me that anyone else in the country would call me! It was under about six layers of clothing --- all I could do was run for the door, with this dreadful noise echoing around me. Concentrated embarrassment.

[varsha]

Every new invention that comes our way seems to find ways of demolishing traditional values .
In the 80s , TV killed the spirit of friendly visits to neighbours - for instance .
in the 90s , email killed the spirit of letter writing .
in the new millenium - I am shocked at the way my English bosses compose in their own language .Thanks to SMS .

But the use of mobile is probably the worst - Folks killing ( themselves and others ) , maiming , scaring ( folks with blue tooth suddenly getting into a fit with their spouses as we pass them on dark alleys ) . Stopping of a music piece is the most benign of effects .

I have had so many problems with my priest conducting my parents annual death ceremonies . With two phones stuck around him he falters every time I have to repeat my father's name - grand father's name and great grand father's name . He has no qualms about interrupting a well honed passage of rites - to tell his next client for the day, that he is on the way ( a lie ) .

I shifted these activities to my home town , but with worse results . They too were catching up .Only difference was that ringtones were steamy songs like - na akki pettey lakkamma -
End result - Past three years , I have discontinued all these acts of sham , and spend the day in meditation . With the mobile switched off .
And I know that my parents understand

[srikant1987]

in the 90s , email killed the spirit of letter writing .

I disagree, and I expect Nick would disagree too. It actually resurrected the art of (letter) writing, which had gone down after telephone (maybe cell phones) and cheaper calls.

Emails are what you make of them.

SMSes are not: you get a measly 150 characters. And the tiny cell phone handsets, even qwerty ones, make typing torture.

[rajumds]

Nick, not sure if your reference to text message is in response to rajumds, but rajumds is talking about an interesting feature where the caller gets a text that the party he is calling has his phone in silent mode. It is like a canned message "I am in a concert, I can not get to your call now, call me back in 3 hours". rajumds, It is interesting enough for me to look into it. Hope you meant it in the sense I understood it.

You got it right. I did a search and there are a few apps in android market. Will try in the next few days

[varsha]

I disagree, and I expect Nick would disagree too.

It is the spirit I referred to . Not the art .
The blank paper in front of you . The view from the window across the writing table . That far away look in trying to create a scene or an image for someone, you know you will not live with , for a majority of the remainder of your life . That ring of the postman's bicycle at the appointed time of the day . That glass of cool water requested and given by the lady of the house . That thrill of hurriedly opening a letter , sometimes neatly , sometimes with ragged edges . Those eager faces around the listener , listening to it being read aloud . The image of the master of the house walking in after the days work , at dusk . And look towards the corner stand where the mails of the day are kept

That is the romance and spirit I am talking about . That incidentally , is the spirit of anything classical . A passage in a classical concert conjures up a thousand other images . And that is what was disturbed when the mobile rang.

Nick or any other authority has little to do with these . It is an opinion as individualistic as yours is to you .

[cienu]

That ring of the postman's bicycle at the appointed time of the day . That glass of cool water requested and given by the lady of the house . That thrill of hurriedly opening a letter , sometimes neatly , sometimes with ragged edges . Those eager faces around the listener , listening to it being read aloud . The image of the master of the house walking in after the days work , at dusk . And look towards the corner stand where the mails of the day are kept.

I agree with Varsha here. This is an era which we have lost and change was not gradual but rapid !

[Rsachi]

I have a dream. A mike-free, mobile-free, recording-free, entry-"Not free", traffic-noise-free, electronic-tambura-free, concert. Ever possible? If someone wants to organise it in Bangalore, count me in, friends!

[uday_shankar]

I have a dream. A mike-free, mobile-free, recording-free, entry-"Not free", traffic-noise-free, electronic-tambura-free, concert.

Then it would unrecognizable as Carnatic music. I resent such neo-modern attempts to destroy very underpinnings of our traditions.

[kunthalavarali]

I have a dream. A mike-free, mobile-free, recording-free, entry-"Not free", traffic-noise-free, electronic-tambura-free, concert. Ever possible? If someone wants to organise it in Bangalore, count me in, friends!

Navaratri mandpam and Kuthira Malika,Thiruvananthapuram come close to your dream ambiance! Exceptions: "not free' at both places and mike free at Kuthiramalika

[Nick H]

While I agree with Srikant that e-mail has revitalised the written communication (so long as it is not is SMS), Varsha invokes a spirit that even I had almost forgotten. I never want to own an e-book reader, nor would I ever take a laptop, or any other computer device, to bed with me to deliver my nightly dose of literature. The computer, the network, the internet; all these things are 100% part of my daily life (even of the majority of many days!) but, even though they may deliver the same "data," they can, for me, never be a proper substitute for printers' ink, paper, the binding, the cover. Thanks, Varsha, for reminding me of the similar spirit of the personal letter!

As to email in business... We write a complaint, or a technical query or enquiry. We receive in return, a pasted msihmash of a dozen ways if telling us how much our custom is appreciated and thanking us for the opportunity to be of service ... but the service is nowhere to be found! Possibly, this is as much a result of the devaluation of the dreaded MBA (should it be MBS ... "BS" is what they seem to mostly learn! ) as the devaluing of the written communication.

The mobile. I could, but would not live without one. I am even about to make my three-or-four-yearly upgrade. My real feelings about it, though, are encapsulated in the telling of a dear one that I am not a taxi driver, and if she wishes to spend the journey talking to other people, she's welcome to take an auto! Mobiles drive people apart as much as they bring people together. Why, in a business meeting, should I put up with the other person having half an eye, and 25% of their attention, on the phone they place on the table in front of them?

and, back to topic...

I have a dream. A mike-free, mobile-free, recording-free, entry-"Not free", traffic-noise-free, electronic-tambura-free, concert. Ever possible? If someone wants to organise it in Bangalore, count me in, friends!

Count me in! Although, these days, my ears have a bit of a problem with mic-less.

[Rsachi]

Friends, I was privileged to go with Sri KVN and sit close to KVN, TNK & UKS in Navaratri Mantapam in 1986. He sang Saveri that day. Undoubtedly that 'stimmung' was heavenly.
I have also sat through several sessions of my wife's Vina music to mridangam accompaniment by PMI's disciple Mr. Ramakrishnan at home. I can't describe at all how pure that musical experience was.

[Sreeni Rajarao]

#20 and #23 from Varsha are pure gems!

[sankark]

just to play devils advocate, don't we tell our school going kids to concentrate on reading text books and let not bother about surrounding (blaring radio or family chit chat or a kid crying or umpteen number of day to day noises that surround us). Atleast I have heard it many a times - manasu padikkaradhula irundha maththathellaam kaathula vizhaadhu, veedunna naalu saththam kettundu thaan irukkum.

So, if we are sincerely listening to music, why let simple noises that surround us disturb you (I am excluding blatant shouting on the phone or a running commentary of the concert to some distant near and dear or about the various alangarams in fashion that year or worse sing alongs or ruminations on how yesteryear greats uses to sing so-and-so song).

Out of ignorance - what is the issue with electronic tambura?

Traffic noise free - you know what I have had some very good concerts in MFAC despite traffic noise. As it is today, eliminating traffic noise in MFAC is impossible. They need to build an auditorium from scratch with better acoustics and even more important *parking* facility. However NGS, MA, KGS, Ramarao Kalamantap, Sivagami Petchachi Auditorium, German Hall (not that much atleast), etc don't have traffic noise issue.

Pin drop silence - IMO overrated.

[srikant1987]

So, if we are sincerely listening to music, why let simple noises that surround us disturb you

Yes, "noises" shouldn't disturb ... music does. Musical ring tones are more disturbing than a tring tring, tring tring more disturbing than horns, and horns more disturbing than the "grrr" of a vehicle or talking (talking about the concert more disturbing than about fashion). Maybe I should shamelessly repeat my point about shruti. Our music is built on top of it, not on top of silence ... shruti is supposed to cancel out sounds not aligned to it, and highlight those aligned to it (which should ideally include the music we're listening to )

[Rsachi]

What's the issue with electronic tambura or ET?
I found a good answer here:http://www.medieval.org/music/world/martin_est.html

The acoustic impact of live, well tuned, Indian instruments is totally different from the distorted approximations we experience with all things like ET. In an otherwise inspiring Dhrupad-based mike-free vocal exposition 'Swar Katha Upanishad' recently, we had to endure the intrusion of an IPod ET.

Just like we endure DDT-laden milk, we do manage to process out traffic noises and tinny sounds as we enjoy CM. It is but an example of 'Hamsa-Ksheera nyaya'. But why not try and get purer milk or purer acoustics? Last year GJR Krishnan, Viji and Patri played in Singapore Esplanade. They were so happy with the acoustics that they did away with mikes- the result was a delectable concert. Later I told GJRK that I had heard great mike-less concerts in NCPA auditorium, Mumbai, too.

[Nick H]

just to play devils advocate, don't we tell our school going kids to concentrate on reading text books and let not bother about surrounding ... ... ... So, if we are sincerely listening to music, why let simple noises that surround us disturb you (I am excluding blatant shouting on the phone or a running commentary of the concert to some distant near and dear or about the various alangarams in fashion that year or worse sing alongs or ruminations on how yesteryear greats uses to sing so-and-so song).

We have little choice but to take this attitude, otherwise we have to stay at home. We are forced to enhance our concentration and practice our patience and forbearance. The question is, why should we have to?

Do we go to a concert to listen to music? Or do we go to a concert as an exercise in doing meditation among chatterers, thigh slappers and clappers, and ring tones?

The fact of having to cope with and put up with bad behaviour does not excuse the behaviour.

[Nick H]

Here's a musical response that I am sure could be emulated here

(Link to BBC News item)

[vasanthakokilam]

Nice. I think your words 'musical response' clued me in, but that is exactly what I thought he is going to do before he even did it.