Thyagaraja Aradhana - Thiruvayyaru

anonymityatlast · Post by **anonymityatlast** » 18 Jan 2012, 13:06

Let us also not forget that the artist community of this generation, besides all the challenges you had mentioned, are economically and otherwise placed faaaaar more comfortably than the artists of the older generation. So in all fairness, if you are looking at higher returns (as what the current generation artists enjoy), then they better be prepared to take that much more responsibilities, and be under higher scrutiny.
Vidwans of the calibre of S Ramanatha Iyer, Srirangam Iyengar, MDR, to name a few, with soooo much dedication and sincerity to their profession had to undergo living standards not worth mentioning.

Are you absolutely sure you're talking sense?

Yes, MDR never had a mobile phone, but neither did Indira Gandhi.

I don't know if it was as common for musicians to have to juggle another job for a decent standard of living in the past as it is now.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 18 Jan 2012, 13:10

It would be futile to argue against posts 48-50 . The fact that an artist gets up on stage to perform does not give us the right to comment on their modes of earnings - standards of livings or changes in generations . Even the reference to SR or MDR is in poor taste by today social standards . Choices made by the Vidwans were personal choices - However romantic their lower standard of living may look . How one gets that idea of a standard of living beats me though . But I will not labour that point .

I personally dont see any problem with folks being conscious of the camera and the opportunities ... when I know it is only a very small section of people who can avoid being conscious in front of a camera .And go on to be fine actors .
My take is that even if the telecast were cancelled from next year , there would not be much change at the site . Beyond this CM or its performance should not be a matter of judgements on philosophical / moral integrity - for the performers who seem to be the target for the simple reason that they are exposed and can be aimed at .

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 18 Jan 2012, 13:33

@Varsha - I think the mention of modes of earnings - standards of livings or changes in generations was spurred by the earlier comment which says the artists of today face bigger challenges than the artists of yesteryear. To me as a rasika and as a devotee of the trinity, all I expect is dedication from the artists while paying homage to the trinity. I really do not care what has changed between generations or what are the additional challenges that are staring at the current generation. If an artist, comes to an aradhana to pay homage to one of the trinity, he has to sing with dedication (if one had practiced with enough dedication, one wouldn't require papers to guide them) and not try to get other benefits from the aradhanai.

I agree that performance should not be a matter of judgements on moral integrity. But performance at an aradhana where the sense of dedication is totally lost, can surely be discussed. Im not passing a judgement here. Im merely venting out my feeling that this is not the finest effort of artists to pay homage to one of the trinity.

Thanks
T

sangeetham · Post by **sangeetham** » 18 Jan 2012, 13:38

The reason standard of living was mentioned is because of the discussion on "challenges" that artists face. One of the greatest challenges, regardless of any generation, is money that a profession can generate. If this opinion can be seen only in bad taste, then for sure, nothing wrong with the artists aiming for publicity in a "supposed" to be divine or holy ocassion.
@anonimityatlast: The comparison is not on generational living standards, but the relative living standards of artists compared to other professional cohorts, in their respective era's. I hope it makes sense to you now.

arunsri · Post by **arunsri** » 18 Jan 2012, 16:39

Going to a Nehru, Gandhi Samadhi - have you seen anyone going in bridal finery? No - right?

Do you go to a disco wearing pavaadai dhavani - No(why I said disco is because people become very conscious about their Indianness, when something western comes in). I have seen girls remove their bindi the moment they change from an Indian dress (salwar) to a pant - so let us not get into this debate.

Do you go to a wedding in tattered clothes and unkempt hair - no.

When each occasion/venue demands an attire and has an etiquette, why not the aradhana function? 364 days when you are on TV (for AIRTEL super singer judging) or on concert stage or for recording film music - you can wear your make up. But when you come for this one day, can you atleast do away with your eyerliner/eyeshadow or whatever it is and concentrate on what you are singing a little bit more. Try and understand whether the split is correct, if possible the meaning etc....

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 19 Jan 2012, 15:30

On a different point, upon the completion of the pancharatnams; there was a big contingent of nadaswara vidwans and some nadawaran artist started playing Rama Neepai (Kedaram) and it was so melodious; but Podhigai cut the telecast. That would have more interesting to listen to.

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 19 Jan 2012, 18:08

i might be diverting the original flow of this topic, but i visited Thirvayyaru this Monday to pay my homage to the Greatest Saint of India IMO. And i found that the samadhi was totally garbaged by the post-Aradhana. I am personally writing to HMAKP to stop the ruckus show. Artists, fans and organizers must be ashamed of their acts!! The whole pandal and surroundings was full of plastic and was rotting like a garbage dump. pardon me if i am new to such acts. This is what represents the average carnatic fan!

mahesu · Post by **mahesu** » 19 Jan 2012, 18:55

Just on the lighter side, Are we ready to see these faces minus make up on a TV close up shot, Oh god what a scary thought

Tharangam · Post by **Tharangam** » 19 Jan 2012, 19:31

Mahesu

This is the best comedy after the comedy show and about the comedy show

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 19 Jan 2012, 23:58

Comedy, tragedy, whatever, those who love CM don't give up that easily.
CM is alive and well in spite of superfluous elements...

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 20 Jan 2012, 07:30

arunsri wrote:Going to a Nehru, Gandhi Samadhi - have you seen anyone going in bridal finery? No - right?

Think the "aradhana" is no longer a sombre event and has become more of a celebration now. I think it is about time too.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 20 Jan 2012, 08:04

Just curious
Do they permit food and beverages in the pandal?
(like coke/pepsi, pizzas etc.,)

anandasangeetham · Post by **anandasangeetham** » 20 Jan 2012, 10:47

certain things tend to become more of a celebration and change tack...even the very basic cause of intention will undergo a serious change and may even be just the opposite...Visits to Tirupati is no more a pilgrimage but an "outing" or "visit to a shareholder to give his share of the booty"....Sabarimala "pilgrimage" is also similar...though there are very genuine bakthas visiting these holy places for the majority it is just an annual ritual sans any serious bakthi feeling.....similar is the case of the Aradhana.....there is lot of competition, oneupman(woman)ship,etc....i have personally experienced the heightened solace and inner peace when visting remote, unpopular temples that cry for serious attention in terms of daily maintenance...definitely do not get that feeling when visiting Tirupati,Palani, Sreerangam etc.....lots of politics in the aradhana take away the core cause of this very ritual.that is sincere homage to a great poet/saint/rama baktha..who is big, who is small, seating arrangements, who leads, who follows, performance opportunity, stay arrangements play a much important role for the musician than the aradhana itself....another appointment in the yearly calender thats it.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 20 Jan 2012, 11:22

anandasangeetham,
You are all for Ananda sangItam and Ananda darSanam. That's the way it is, with many of us--thank goodness for that

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 20 Jan 2012, 11:33

anandasangeetham wrote:Visits to Tirupati is no more a pilgrimage but an "outing"..

Have you tried climbing on foot? Changes your whole perspective

anandasangeetham · Post by **anandasangeetham** » 20 Jan 2012, 14:27

Dear Sureshvv, Yes done many times..but once you reach the tirumala, Q, pushing, pulling, notes flying, VIP, VVIP, spill of the prasadam...it is back the same perspective. last year me, wife and children did a angapradhackshinam..in the chill early morning (rather night) we took a bath in the holy tank and were in the Q shivering from head to toe..separate Q for male and female devotees...once inside every body just blindly fell and were rolling side by side....the floor was warm in spite of the climate due to the body warmth of the very many devotees...here also there was mild pushing with the elbow,shin, nagarungo, jarigandi, chalo, keep rolling etc...till this also OK. but just after this we were again ;pushed in to another Q..no complaints here ..but many of the devotees starting throwing up and some were seen spitting..ALL THIS INSIDE THE INNER PRAKARAM.....I have also witnessed many pilgrims (not devotees) in the Srirangam temple, while in Q, spitting (not Paan) and blowing of nose inside the inner prakaram....except a couple of people (including me) others did not even raise an objection...the people concerned looked at us like WE were condemned criminals and with deep disgust.

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 21 Jan 2012, 05:19

"i have personally experienced the heightened solace and inner peace when visting remote, unpopular temples"

How true....some of these temples I admire and go every now and then are

Vaitheeswaran koil
Thirupaanganur
Uppiliappan temple
Thirunallar

and there are scores of others. As for walking up Thirupathi hills, yes, absolute bliss...but the Q system and then once you enter the prakaram, the mad rush, people managers screaming at devotees right inside sanctum sanctorum, make you wish you had not come there. So, I find happiness visiting TTD at Mambalam. The Lord looks exactly the same and there are times when there is not much crowd also.

I recently went to Thirvaiaru. The whole place was deserted..but how peaceful and beatiful it was. The river was flowing copiously and the whole place was serene.

satyabalu · Post by **satyabalu** » 21 Jan 2012, 11:59

Sam!" Thirupaanganur"-I had never been to this place .Where is it? Padal petra sthalam/history?

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 22 Jan 2012, 05:11

Satyabalu....the correct spelling for the place is "Thirupungur"...sorry about the error. Here is a link

http://templesoftamilnadu.co.in/2010/02 ... ar-temple/

Regards

Sam

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 22 Jan 2012, 12:13

@Sam sir, have you been to Sounderaraja Perumal temple in Nagappattinam....you can almost hear "Soundararajam aashraye" in the inner sanctum! Powerful

anandasangeetham · Post by **anandasangeetham** » 23 Jan 2012, 09:50

On the rare unpopular temples there are hundreds of temples in and around the tanjore/kumbakonam districts...on the way to Swamimalai thiruvalanchuzhi where the lord ganesha is swuyambu and of kadalnorai. very ill maintained but a very big and powerful temple.on the way to kumbakonam near thirubuvanam there is Sarabeswarar temple..very huge but again ill maintained. Vaitheeswaran Koil very popular and huge crowd but very ill maintained..Uppilaappan Koil very lovely very neatly maintained..among Kumbakonam temples the ramar temple is excellent very neatly maintained and amazing darshan in a very calm and peaceful atmosphere.

a 5 day trip starting from Trichy towards Chennai can cover over 50 temples ( in a leisurely darshan -not the big very popular ones)

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 23 Jan 2012, 10:16

In Kumbakonam(my present escapade spot during weekends) i quite love going to Sarangapani temple...and Ramaswamy temple too...

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 23 Jan 2012, 14:43

Hi Puru...I have been to areas around Karaikal, which included Thirunallar, but not to the Nagapattinam area. Need to do that one of these days. I am sure such a visit will definitely include dharshan of Mata as well.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 26 Jan 2012, 20:52

It is wonderful to see so many people who can read the thoughts of the attendees of the Tiruvayyaru Thyagaraja Aradhana and tell us that they are going there just to be seen on TV and have no bhakthi or reverence towards Sri Thyagaraja.

Look at the actual facts of the situation. The Aradhana organizing committee does not pay for transportation or accommodation of the visiting artists. This means that all the artists come to the Aradhana on their own money. Now, there is the risk involved in travelling by road. Even if one flies into or takes the train to Trichy, one still has to drive about 40 miles to get to Tiruvayyaru. With ever-increasing traffic on poor roads, this is getting actually quite dangerous.

All those requesting/demanding a Vidwan Pass to gain admittance into the pandal can get the pass only after 7 PM on the day before the pancharathnam singing. Sudha and O S Arun and a few others might be exceptions but the rest of the crew have to get a Vidwan Pass.

That doesn't necessarily guarantee a seat inside the pandal. So artists queue up at 7 AM to get into the pandal. But then, artists are told which row they are supposed to sit in. Just because you are first in line doesn't mean that you can sit right in the center with a mic to yourself. The organizing committee has the responsibility for seating the artists in some semblance of order.

The demands of the TV-viewing public has to be taken into account. So, Sudha Raghunathan gets to sit front and center and gets a mic to herself. Any amount of soulful and reverential singing by XYZ isn't going to cut the mustard with Doordarshan or AIR and get him/her a front-row seat.

As to the quality of singing, the fact is that the aadhaara sruthi is not heard by all the participants. You can go complain about it if you want and they will tell you to either shut up or put you to work making it heard everywhere inside the pandal.... most likely, the former. Thus you can see the lag while the lead female singer waits for the lead male singer to start each krithi before joining in so that she can figure out the sruthi. If she misses the cue and starts earlier - which also happens - the rest have to figure out what the tonic note is by listening to her and join in.

So the participants do what they can under the circumstances but arm-chair pundits on rasikas.org are willing to ascribe motives to their behavior which have no relation to reality.

I suppose more reverence is shown by those who choose not to attend the Tiruvayyaru Thyagaraja Aradhana. Those artists have skipped not only the Jaya-TV pancharathnam singing but also the non-TV-covered one at the Music Academy or the Thyagaraja Vidwath Samajam, or the ones being held today in 3 different locations or the one to be held soon at Hamsadhwani.

I can imagine that those artists are sitting in meditation in front of a picture of Sri Thyagaraja at their homes.

If you believe that, I have got a bridge to sell to you.

Purist · Post by **Purist** » 27 Jan 2012, 13:58

Well said Harimau. I am surprised you did not touch upon Cleveland Aradhana .
The equations are perhaps quite different

mahesu · Post by **mahesu** » 27 Jan 2012, 17:46

Thanks harimau,

Now let us look from an organiser perspective also. They have to provide mics to few of the leading artists who are expected to sing a common padantharam so that when you hear from outside it looks like there is synergy among the artists. They may not know who of these artists has a spoilt throat (due to the very difficult weather conditions at this location or due to their travel previous day...so on and so forth)on the early morning of the aradhana day. There may be also an artist or two who chooses to sing his / her own kalpana and new sangatis, forgetting that there is a gamut of artists sitting near him, and this eventually spoiling the show.

I heard that few of the secretaries / office bearers were at the pandhal till 3 AM in the morning helping to place the mics and for other arrangements. Mind you they are also famous artists themselves,

It is very easy to write a few lines about the artists / organisers, but definitely it takes a lot of effort on their part when they present it at the pandhal for us rasikas to enjoy it by hearing at the location or through TV / Radio etc

Let us all join hands and give a big round of applause to them and show our appreciations

VijayR · Post by **VijayR** » 27 Jan 2012, 19:41

Well said, mahesu!

There is a fine line between "critique" and "criticize". The former (by self as well as by others) is essential for improvement. However, I have never seen much good come out of an excessive amount of the latter. There have been several instances of late on our forum where people have slipped into "criticize" mode when they really intended to "critique".

ragh_avan · Post by **ragh_avan** » 27 Jan 2012, 20:35

The hypocrisy of the CM listeners most of whom are Tambrams stand exposed by the kind of lectures we see on how musicians should live. It is very easy to say how MDR lived; do many of us know in what penury he died and the financial state of his family on his demise. So what if present day musicians get paid; do we want them to live in rented houses and have a life of meagre existence. I guess glorifying a life that was led by Thyagaraja by listeners who drive on swanky US roads and who own multiple properties in US and India is revolting.

nsvignesh · Post by **nsvignesh** » 28 Jan 2012, 11:43

if only there was a like button

Thumbs up for the last few comments!

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 30 Jan 2012, 17:11

ragh_avan wrote:The hypocrisy of the CM listeners most of whom are Tambrams stand exposed by the kind of lectures we see on how musicians should live. It is very easy to say how MDR lived; do many of us know in what penury he died and the financial state of his family on his demise. So what if present day musicians get paid; do we want them to live in rented houses and have a life of meagre existence. I guess glorifying a life that was led by Thyagaraja by listeners who drive on swanky US roads and who own multiple properties in US and India is revolting.

Please could you elaborate on the Hypocrisy of "CM listeners most of whom are Tambrams" that stand exposed?

Regards
T

Sam Swaminathan · Post by **Sam Swaminathan** » 31 Jan 2012, 01:22

"The hypocrisy of the CM listeners most of whom are Tambrams stand exposed by the kind of lectures we see on how musicians should live."

Raghvan.. your sheer brilliance in analysing and picking out tambrams to be the hypocritical lot left me with goose pimples! Pray, explain to us ignorants your reasons and the logic based on which you came out with such a clever analysis!

ragh_avan · Post by **ragh_avan** » 31 Jan 2012, 13:14

WIll you folks read behind the first line for why I said so? Or is the first line so denigrating that the rest of the lines seem invisible. And for the records I am tambram myself. Nothing wrong with self introspection!!!

thathwamasi · Post by **thathwamasi** » 31 Jan 2012, 14:49

Dear Sir

Thanks for pointing out the rest of the lines written. I did read them at the first place and I don't understand what is the hypocrisy that are standing exposed. Hence my post. Please clarify them to me.

Regards
T

sangeetham · Post by **sangeetham** » 31 Jan 2012, 14:54

ragh_avan wrote:WIll you folks read behind the first line for why I said so? Nothing wrong with self introspection!!!

Ragh_avan: Sorry to be repatriating; but I get a similar feeling when the context and the perspective in which I was mentioning about the living standards of yester year artists is totally drawn out of context...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Feb 2012, 00:11

The hypocrisy of the CM listeners most of whom are Tambrams who drive on swanky US roads and who own multiple properties in US and India glorifying a life that was led by Thyagaraja is revolting

Am I right in my paraphrasing!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 01 Feb 2012, 00:29

Is US the exclusive monopoly of TamBrams!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Feb 2012, 08:29

The hypocrisy of the CM listeners most of whom are Tambrams who drive on swanky US roads and who own multiple properties in US and India glorifying a life that was led by Thyagaraja is revolting

cmlover wrote: Am I right in my paraphrasing!

Not quite! You left out the part about disparaging current day musicians for their venal motives.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Feb 2012, 08:38

So what if present day musicians get paid; do we want them to live in rented houses and have a life of meagre existence.

I don't get it from the above!
Do you mean it is sarcastic?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Feb 2012, 09:20

Tyagaraja was happy that he was singing in praise of Rama, at all times.
Some musicians are happy singing at Tiruvaiyaru.
A few performers are happy 'performing' at Tiruvaiyaru.
A lot of music lovers love singing and being there at TiruvairAru.
Others are happy staying at home, singing his songs.
Yet others, happy with the TV switched on--
listening to singers/performers from his shrine.

endarO tyAgarAja prEmAs--
andariki vandanamu...

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Feb 2012, 09:26

So what if present day musicians get paid; do we want them to live in rented houses and have a life of meagre existence.

cmlover wrote: I don't get it from the above!
Do you mean it is sarcastic?

Don't think this was sarcastic. This was the poster's own opinion which was in divergence with the hypocritical anachronistic views commonly held by your typical stone-age expatriate. Apologies for stereotyping!

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Feb 2012, 10:54

Petrified expatriates?

True in certain ways, and yet--
There are times when
The stone age is new age,
When you find the old set
avant garde, while a few
Among the youth bowl us over
With their zeal for the old

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 01 Feb 2012, 23:54

It is the expatriates who are now keeping CM alive outside of Mylapore!
(of course many expatriates are Mylaporeans

There are no less than 200 Thyagaraja aradhanas going around in NA now...

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 02 Feb 2012, 09:17

Agree. Nobody has anything against expatriates doing what they like. But it would be nice if the more vocal of them tempered their hypocritical anachronistic views.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Feb 2012, 10:09

Is this by any means an indirect accusation against the Cleveland Aradhana?
IMHO it is a very sincere expression of commitment to CM traditions by a group of dedicated individuals.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 02 Feb 2012, 10:40

Nothing indirect. The comment was addressed to you. As far as I know Cleveland Aradhana is not participating in this discussion.

gajaa · Post by **gajaa** » 02 Feb 2012, 12:39

VK RAMAN wrote:Is US the exclusive monopoly of TamBrams!

In terms of patronising Carnatic Music at least, I think it pretty much is!

kalyani_ragam · Post by **kalyani_ragam** » 02 Feb 2012, 18:21

arasi wrote:Tyagaraja was happy that he was singing in praise of Rama, at all times.
Some musicians are happy singing at Tiruvaiyaru.
A few performers are happy 'performing' at Tiruvaiyaru.
A lot of music lovers love singing and being there at TiruvairAru.
Others are happy staying at home, singing his songs.
Yet others, happy with the TV switched on--
listening to singers/performers from his shrine.

endarO tyAgarAja prEmAs--
andariki vandanamu...

oh blaimy
too complex to comprehend !!! Why this long write up which conveys very little !!

VK RAMAN · Post by **VK RAMAN** » 02 Feb 2012, 20:11

a poetess explains in her own way. It has meaning.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 02 Feb 2012, 20:42

sureshvv
The hat fits your 'gurunathan' whose body is in chennai but mind is in England - the pseudo-expatriate.
Sheer sour-grapism blaming 'real' expatriates!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 02 Feb 2012, 21:13

I have no idea who you are talking about! I was not blaming expatriates as a whole. I was exposing the hypocrisy in the criticism offered by some of them. Your first attempt was to try to hide behind the Cleveland aradhana organizers. I ferreted you out of there. Your next attempt is to deflect attention to some mystery "gurunathan". Why don't you grow up and try to make a reasoned argument?