Dissonance resolving into consonance

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Enna_Solven
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Joined: 18 Jan 2008, 02:45

Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by Enna_Solven »

Is there a carnatic equivalent to this? Listen to the podcast. It was very interesting.
In a segment on Tuesday, we explained how a musical device called an appoggiatura can cause a reaction in people's brains that is instrumental in making a song sad. We pointed to the Adele song "Someone Like You" as an example. Some listeners say we got it wrong, so Melissa Block talks with composer, conductor and music commentator Rob Kapilow to set the record straight.
http://www.npr.org/programs/all-things-considered/
Another Take On The 'Appoggiatura' [4 min 30 sec]

http://pd.npr.org/anon.npr-mp3/npr/atc/ ... 3.mp3?dl=1

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Mahavishnu is the best among us to talk about this.

I read this article yesterday about the same topic:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... TopStories

I looked up Appoggiatura. It seems to mean in general Ornamentation, like our swara-alankaram and gamaka. So the dissonance part of it seems to be one specific application of that general word.

E_S, now I know who to say that word!!

mahavishnu
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mahavishnu »

E_S, thanks for starting this thread and VK, thanks for that excellent WSJ article (a bit of an oxymoron these days considering that they are owned by the nefarious Murdoch).

Appoggiaturas can be operationally defined as musical accents that defy our fundamental expectancy structure. This could be very brief as in the "We can work it out" example by the Beatles or in Billy Holliday's "A foggy day in London town", in the way she says "London". However, the definitions of appoggiaturas on NPR's "All things considered" were a bit narrow, so they could be more exact in the definitional/technical sense. Most of the other examples on the show dealt with appoggiaturas at a single note level.

For centuries, musicians have been playing with accentuation and resolution of the ensuing instability in different forms. Music that has the ability to do modulate consonance (within the structure of perceived musicality) has the greatest ability to induce emotions, positive or negative. Brain imaging studies have shown that such music triggers the activation of the limbic system and other emotional centers of our brain. My colleague Robert Zatorre in Montreal recently discovered that the crescendos and finales create this effect as well, related to a neurotransmitter called dopamine related to reward anticipation mechanisms.

In CM, although we don't see appoggiaturas related to harmony/consonance, we can observe them in routine gamakas and note establishments even in the absence of metric structure.

One could say Appoggiaturas are so common in CM, that we might have stopped paying attention to them explicitly. And then there are specific phrases that violate expectancies by making octave changes. I have included three non-standard examples from three very different kinds of performers below.

Let us consider the example of the sahAna padam, mOra tOpu (see link below)
http://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubram ... a-moratopu ; see the beautiful basic violation of the octave expectation, "tOpu" begins in the higher reaches and then the rest of the line sustains that feeling. There is also a volume change (very common in cantatas and choral music from the baroque period in Western classical music). This is an exquisite performance by Smt Sowmya in the tradition of her guru T Mukta.

Here is a second example in a neraval line for RamanAtham bhajEham by Sri NSG (see link below)
http://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubram ... ra-neraval
Watch how he builds the structure of the beautiful neraval line "kumAraguruha mahitam" (textbook example of sowkhyam) and then just as one gets into the trance (around 1:15 in the clip), he makes an octave change. One could classify this a case of impromptu appoggiatura. You have to listen to the entire clip to get the full feeling of the effect he manages in that last second.

Here is a third example -> http://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubram ... rabharanam.
Watch the development of the sankarabharanam alapanai, where L. Shankar follows a well defined progression and at around 0:48, makes an almost cello like dive into the lower octave. Gives me the chills every time I listen to it.

So, why this effect? The brain likes things in the environment to be predictable and simple. When sudden shifts happen to disturb the steady state, we have always had evolutionary reasons to turn on our limbic system to motivate our action systems to move (fight or flight). It is likely that music is tapping into these fundamental biological mechanisms.

P.S: Standard discalimer: all musical clips are posted for academic/illustrative purposes only.

Enna_Solven
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by Enna_Solven »

Thanks VK and Mahavishnu. The article expanded on the NPR piece. L. Shankar's violin at the end is MDResque! Going by this formula, Radha suddenly shifting into higher octave when MS continues in the middle octave is an example of appoggiatura, right? It does produce intense emotional impact.

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks Mahavishnu. So, "dissonance resolving to consonance on the beat" is just one way of defining the expectancy structure. Your excellent examples provides the other ways, specifically octave changing. I do like the more general definition, it has more utility and wider applicability.

As another extended example, may be a quick transition from Characteristic phrases of a raga to non characteristic phrases ( and when we are wondering what it is about ) and then jump to a characteristic phrase. I am thinking along the lines of 'non-characteristic phrase resolving to characteristic phrases of a raga along the lines of "dissonance resolving to consonance".

When talking about dissonance, I had to remind myself that it is not same as Apaswaram. I think dissonance is more along the lines of Non ( vadi, samvadi ) notes of a raga. In western, they have other ways of bringing in dissonance with the Harmony/chords dimension. Can we discuss what the Consonance pairs of notes are for some ragas and which ones are dissonance pairs. We can then spot such resolutions from dissonance to consonance in CM as well. We know that Octave is a consonance ratio and so is the Fourth ( like Sa to Ma, but it can be between any two notes separated by a fourth ). How about the fifth ( sa to pa ) or the third ( sa to ga )?

mahavishnu
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mahavishnu »

Further to my previous post on this topic... here is an interesting take on the way WSJ and NPR have promoted some common misconceptions about Appoggiaturas.
http://www.newmusicbox.org/articles/sou ... th-bender/

VK, interesting point about dissonance in terms of notes in a scalar arrangement. Some of your questions about which combinations sound dissonant can be explored with this little app from Dale Purves's website at Duke. http://www.purveslab.net/main/
Click on the tab for "why we hear tones the way we do".

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Thanks Mahavishnu. Very Interesting. I took the test. I am directionally in accord with the world, though not an exact match. Is there a similar test/experimental data with notes played one after the other? Also, for some reason I am quite a bit off on a few data points in the latter half. But I was not thinking too much, it was a gut feel reaction. It was a bit difficult to remember the earlier intervals for ranking purposes.

Image

mahavishnu
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mahavishnu »

VK: my ratings were more similar to yours than the published data (just by eyeballing, not a Spearman rank-order correlation). Perhaps there is something in the carnatic-sensitive ear that is different...

Here's my data.
Image

I don't know of such data for sequential notes. I will ask Dale Purves if he is thinking of doing this...

vasanthakokilam
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by vasanthakokilam »

Yeah, that is quite interesting that our charts are so similar. Let us see what others get. I am itching to point out one obvious thing that both you and I sensed the same way ( but not the public ) but I do not want to bias other test takers.

srini_pichumani
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by srini_pichumani »

Venilkuyil,

I think I understand the itch :) but didn't fall for it since I felt that the interval was poorly realized !

-Srini.

sureshvv
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by sureshvv »

mahavishnu wrote: Here is a second example in a neraval line for RamanAtham bhajEham by Sri NSG (see link below)
http://soundcloud.com/ramesh-balasubram ... ra-neraval
Fabulous clip. Dissonance and Consonance all juxtaposed. Any idea who the mrudangam is on this? Love the hide and seek.

mahavishnu
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mahavishnu »

Any idea who the mrudangam is on this?
Neyveli Narayanan.

sureshvv
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by sureshvv »

Wondering if these are more examples of dissonance resolving into consonance

1. Sancharas without Sa and Pa
2. Sancharas revolving around Ni during alapana
3. Sruthi bedham ending with return to aadhara sruti

TheListener
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012, 04:52

Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by TheListener »

Interesting thread.
From the broad definition given here for 'appoggiatura', I am reminded quite a bit by Sri Mali's playing.
He used to do the change Octaves and play the same sangati often, given the effect described above.
Also, the most interesting way it comes into play is when he would just be playing some mundane madhyamakala phrases in kalapana swaras and suddenly he would play some characteristic phrase of the ragam with such sowkhyam that it would sweep you off your feet.

BTW, I did the tonal test and got the exact same graph as vasanthakokilam and mahavishnu.

mohan
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mohan »

Ineresting stuff .. here's my results

Image

Looks pretty similar to mahavishnu's results!

mohan
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mohan »

For me, in Carnatic music vivadi ragas (especially those with the D3/N3 or R3/G3 combination) can sound quite dissonant while certain compositions and renditions are nonetheless appealling

msakella
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by msakella »

While most of our musicians have already become sufficiently immune of the dissonant affect emanating from most of our Shruti-instruments we need not, in particular, think of the dissonant affect of R3/G3 or D3/N3. amsharma

mahavishnu
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mahavishnu »

sureshvv wrote:Wondering if these are more examples of dissonance resolving into consonance

1. Sancharas without Sa and Pa
2. Sancharas revolving around Ni during alapana
3. Sruthi bedham ending with return to aadhara sruti
Suresh, I think all of these can be good examples.

There is an almost perfect clip that I want to post to illustrate all three of these. It is a BMK Kalyani alapanai (with LGJ) that Cool-ji once posted that has elements of all three. BMK hangs on the nishadam for a long time and then does a graha bedam from there to very folksy todi... Absolutely beautiful example of dissonance that is begging to be resolved and it is almost like hanging on a cliff. Somehow, I can't find this clip, but I think you will really appreciate it. I will post it if I can find it in my archives.

But in the presence of sa and pa, I find that the use of nishadam (as my data reveal) to be quite pleasant. Many hindustani tanpura settings use this feature and it adds a constant feeling of bistability (around the Sa-Pa and the Ni-Sa-Pa).

mahavishnu
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Re: Dissonance resolving into consonance

Post by mahavishnu »

Here's a very interesting take on the song that started this thread :)
http://youtu.be/LSNxrEa3Usw

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