Double Trouble

[Ramam]

On 02 Sept at Bangalore Gayana Samaja a memorial concert was held. The speech and felicitation activities dragged and hence delayed the Kanyakumari concert start by 90 minutes. The mike adjustment is the issue. Two mridhangam (mridhu + aangam) support alongwith a Khanjira (Purushottam). Sri Anand and his disciple Mr Amrit were the mridhangam artist. (Mr Amrit was responsible for the function and normally plays the Khangira). Each wanted the mike sound to the maximum limits and only that it for any higher levels screeched to certain reflected sound. The violinist started with Vathapi. Mr Anand played for the pallavi and gave it to Mr Amrit to drum for the Anupallavi. I got a shocker when he played like a Redfort cracker.It was unwanted. There was no music in it. The problem is Laya vidwams get carried and stop playing like pakka vadyams. The funniest part was that for the rasa filled Nannu kanna thalli the treatment was same. The Sahana alapana was quite good. Mr Amrit took over for anupallavi again. My god , supposedly one of the last composition of Tyagaraja , Giripai , the treatment for Anupallavi cannot be like that. Normally the speed is enhanced for the charanam not for anupallavi, Mr Amrit. Pl stick to Khanjira and get your sense more refined.. What has happened after this I do not know. The tani must have been Diwali I suppose.

Its high time this mike adjustments have some standards and that such upcoming artist listen to the likes of Mani Iyer/ Trichy Sankaran/ Sivaraman /Murthy when they play as pakka vadhyams while drumming for compositions. The compositions are held high because there is ragam and layam to showcase in them

[SuhasYogin]

Dear Mr/Mrs/Ms Ramam (blame my lack of knowledge in Hindu nomenclature for being unable to place your gender with the help of your name),

Firstly, thank you for attending Vid.A.Kanyakumari madam's kacheri at Gayana Samaja. And thank you for taking time out to write this forum post too. Secondly, I found this late, else I would have spent time in lambasting you straight away.

1.Niceties aside, it is yokelish to refer to artistes, especially, extremely highly qualified Vidushis such as Vidushi.A.Kanyakumari as "the violinist", or Vidwans such as Vid.Amrit as "Mr.Amrit" - hope you find time to brush up your social communication etiquette, you need it. Just in case, you haven't noticed it, we have long moved on from the stone age to which you seem to belong to. So, it is already quite late and I urge you to change yourself soon. Being a seasoned rasika, you should be suicidally embarrassed to have not used more respectful language for artistes.

2.Vid.Amrit is an artiste with immensely vast knowledge and incredible skill. One who has played with, matched, and usurped several high-quality artistes. It was blatantly disingenuous of you to use adjectives so irritatingly liberally.

3.I don't know who you are, but I've read your posts across the forum, and they've helped amplify my doubts of your ability to judge music exponentially (let us not even delve in to the fact whether you are qualified to do so). Artistes are humans after all, and they have Off and On days - to be so immaturely critical of them is plain retarded.

4.I was there at the concert myself, and it was a clear case of sound levels gone awry. If you have ever performed yourself (which I doubt, as it is evident from your post that you always only lent a greedily critical ear, but never had the courage or probably aren't qualified to let alone set foot on stage, but to even imagine it), you will know that sound levels on the monitors and the auditorium speakers are COMPLETELY different. The artistes only set sound levels on monitors and not on the other speakers - the sound guy is expected to do so.

5.What Vid.Amrit played that day was simply stellar, it not only exalted the concert to greater heights, but was complement to his guru Vid.AV Anand sir on Mridangam.

6.I find the fact that you wrote this nonsensical post without listening to the thani, supremely hilarious. The thani was simply magnificent, the Khanda nadai that Vid.AV Anand sir played and the Mishra Nadai Vid.Amrit Sir played is still ringing in my ears.

7.Although, I am replying to this particular post, consider this applicable to all your posts on the forum.

I hope in future, you will be less critical of artistes in general. Yes, my response to you is an arrow straight in to your wing and I hope it hurts.

With disregards,
Suhas Yogin

[kunthalavarali]

Suhas Yogin
You are right that there should be more restraint in 'rasika' comments. However, there were times when a Kalki or Subbudu would be more caustic and critical in their reviews. They spared none, not even greats like SSI or MSG. They (reviewers) had the caliber and courage.
I do agree with Ramam regarding the audio excess!. This happens ad nauseam in many concerts. There is a need to standardize the decibel levels

[kssr]

Mr.Amrit is, in English, quite respectful. Vid.Amrit Sir ... what language is it? Any idea?

[Nick H]

Dear Mr or Mrs Suhas (forgive my ignorance)

Some of what you say, such as about levels, may well be true, but coming here (first post) to slag off a member for their honest impressions honestly expressed, even if you disagree (and even if they are wrong) is unwarranted

So you can take your arrow and....

] ] ]

...find another use for it.

[sureshvv]

4.I was there at the concert myself, and it was a clear case of sound levels gone awry.

Think you just agreed pretty much with what the OP said. The rest of your post can be disregarded as knee-jerk bombast.

[cmlover]

We don't intervene as long as you express your strictly personal views in a decent language.

Moderator

[Nick H]

It's a long time since we had a decent tiff

[SuhasYogin]

Hello,

I write this post with head held high, with zero regret, and don't feel even remotely apologetic for what I said to the user named Ramam. My issue is only with his/her carelessness in writing.

However, I will spend not more than a fraction of a second to think before I apologize to anyone else who may have been offended. My sincere apologies, even to you Mr.Nick H, who wished to do highly imaginative things with the arrow.

With warm regards,
Suhas Yogin

[Nick H]

... to the arrow.

It's a forum. debate is the thing. Even including high-handed debate. I have read things here that I thought deserved a tirade; some might say I've even delivered one or two; I don't think Ramam deserves one. You obviously differ on that.

[VK RAMAN]

do yogin's get upset and angry ever?

[prahalad_rag]

Does one have to be a performer to write a review? I find the argument "Let me see if you can do better" totally ridiculous. I may not be able to sing/play like you, but when I hear a bad piece of music, I will know it and I have every right point that out. Don't we all *expect* India to win every single cricket match they play? Similarly, we *expect* musicians also to perform at their best. I agree, they are also humans and mistakes will creep in. But if it happens consistently throughout the concert, it becomes a problem. I have heard from others what Ramam has said about Amrith. He is usually not restrained on the mridangam. Khanjira though, is his forte.
And what is the big deal about adding Vid to every performer. It is only a title.

[Purist]

do yogin's get upset and angry ever?

Good one Hope the 'yogi' understands

[Nick H]

Given the nature of the forum and its membership, there is an assumption that music and musicians are respected. There may be exceptions to to this, and they may be more or less controversial, but lack of respect is not implied in lack of titles. In fact, all the vid. sri, and sir-ing, and its female equivalents, seems out of place here. Most of us know our manners in the classroom, but this is not the classroom, it is a forum. It is also a place where many of the members are more "senior" than many of the artists!

Any performer or artist in any field will have to live with criticism. They will know that some it will be false, some of it will be ignorant, inspired by jealousy or resentment of one kind or another, etc, etc, etc, and that some of it will be fair and informed comment. Youngsters in particular can learn something. They should know, at least, if their performance has been well received or not.

Being a carnatic performer is not a ticket to a lifetime of, "Oh, well done, Sri Vidwan-sir," and I'm sure most performers know that and do not want it. Of course, some egos have come to expect it, but, among established performers, I'm sure there are also those who think as badly of sycophancy as of bad criticism.

[arasi]

Sri Nicholas,
Just back from the 'Lion City', fully energized with righteous indignation, I see!
Sir, true. Haven't had khAra URugAi (hot pickles) in a while
As Nick ji says, music and musicians can be discussed with zest here, so long as we do not make comments at a personal level (respecting the performer's personal dignity as much as we do ours).
May I add, there is a way to put our thoughts across? That is to say, objectively?

On my part, I thought this on reading the review: Amrit is such a good player and he got bitten by the noise and speed bug this time? I'm glad I wasn't there and was spared the agony of all that din.
Why does this happen, this noise and speed craving? Is fusion music influencing them? Then again, the most cherished older players have distressed me at times by opting for noise in some of their performances
Thanks, Nick avargaLE!

[Nick H]

Arasi's here. Watch out, guys!

]

[cmlover]

Double Trouble

[Nick H]

Oh, well said!

[Ramam]

Much of water probably has flown (or not released ;Kaveri) since ...anyway

I attended a concert where TMKrishna was accompanied by Trichy Sankaran a few years ago at the same venue. There were two vocalist (I hope its clear). The thani was fantastic , the raga was evident in the mridhangam for a very long time. The sollus literally matched the swara priyoga for some time. The crowd gave a second round applause and it went for some time. I have atleast that knowledge and memory.
Semmangudi used to say that there is no need to respect a thani when the mridhangam did not accompany the lyric and swara prastara properly. UKS has many times cut short his thani for MDR as he would be given lot of scope (to match the lyric )in between the presentation.
The mridhangam should always realise that he his supporting the laya aspects of the main performer's presentation and in that contest I found it amusing that they were vying each other for sound levels, while the main performer was just watching it.
The sound levels were normal then its the kind of playing the song that becomes important and not when it just BLASTING.

I do know that this is an art and that no two can present it similar way, yet listening to some jambavans shall always be useful.

[Nick H]

Whilst there are certainly some mridangists that might like to be loud, usually sound levels are the responsibility and the fault of the man at the mixer, not the artists, who are often only asking for sufficient volume to be able to hear each other.

The mridhangam should always realise that he his supporting the laya aspects of the main performer's presentation

I'd go further and say that, ideally, the tani is a part of composition in which it is presented, and should not take away from that song and/or the swaras just sung by the artist. Sometimes with two, and often with more than two, percussion artists, this is lost, and it becomes a percussion interval.

Just throwing something else into the pot: I see no point in double-mridangam accompaniment. A variety of percussion adds greatly to the variety of musical texture in a concert. It adds beauty, and it helps the concentration. Double mridangam does none of this and is of no benefit to the audience at all.

[Ramam]

I do understand the feed back monitor which perhaps gets the first attention. If it were to be faulty or so, then it needs to happen often. This of course in this venue is not likely. A human error too of this kind can be eliminated with a proper feed-back system. That was my main concern in the posting.
At least the organizer needs to intervene and fix it or the musicians can generously ask for a feed-back from the audience. It needs to be accepted. After they are performing for the rasika hope fully and not for just their own satisfaction.
By the way when this increase of volume was going on that day it was at the amusement of many like me (not fanatic followers).

[Sundara Rajan]

What is derogatory, any way,in referring to Ms. Kanyakuari as " the violinist " ? She played the violin, I suppose.

[thenpaanan]

This reminds me of quite an ancient thread on this forum on the question of why Carnatic musicians do not do sound checks before concerts like many Hindustani musicians do. Two items I remember in particular -- first, how Zakir Hussain spends a lot of time before a concert checking out sound volumes in different parts of the audience sections, and second, the bitter complaints about a concert by Bombay Jayashree who apparently had the audience waiting in the lobby for an hour while the musicians were doing mic testing. I dont know what the solution is but it seems that we (on all sides of the stage) need to a better job of sound management.

Thenpaanan

[mohan]

I dont know what the solution is but it seems that we (on all sides of the stage) need to a better job of sound management.

The solution is for organisers to insist there is a proper sound check done. The sound check should ideally commence 90 minutes before the concert start time so that there is 1 hour for the sound check and 30 minutes for the audience to enter the auditorium before the concert.

[vasanthakokilam]

Right.

And the typical sound check I have seen CM musicians do is to check if the sound is OK for them on the stage

[VK RAMAN]

[/quote]
The solution is for organisers to insist there is a proper sound check done. The sound check should ideally commence 90 minutes before the concert start time so that there is 1 hour for the sound check and 30 minutes for the audience to enter the auditorium before the concert.[/quote]

These office bearers are mostly volunteers and expecting them to come 90 minutes early is a wishful thinking unless some one high up who is paid executive implements such process and the artists are told about their need to come 30 minutes early. How about the artists who book back to back two or three performances in one day.

In U.S, this is done by most of the non-profit organizations who run with 99% volunteers.

[Nick H]

There are whole threads devoted to this topic and other stuff about whether our music is still music by the time it reaches our ears. but anyway...

How can artists be expected to arrive a full hour and a half before a performance? Our halls are not professional theatres with comfortable dressing rooms and green rooms, they are, mostly, just ...halls. Anyway, it does not take 90 minutes to set up microphones for three or four people: nine minutes might be more like it, and the key is not in just doing it, but in doing it properly, and recognising that sound settings for an empty hall need to be adjusted as the hall fills up and the artists warm up.

[khanjirachavana]

Does one have to be a performer to write a review? I find the argument "Let me see if you can do better" totally ridiculous. I may not be able to sing/play like you, but when I hear a bad piece of music, I will know it and I have every right point that out. Don't we all *expect* India to win every single cricket match they play? Similarly, we *expect* musicians also to perform at their best. I agree, they are also humans and mistakes will creep in. But if it happens consistently throughout the concert, it becomes a problem. I have heard from others what Ramam has said about Amrith. He is usually not restrained on the mridangam. Khanjira though, is his forte.
And what is the big deal about adding Vid to every performer. It is only a title.

Mr. Prahalad,

1. How can you judge what is good music and what is bad music? It is only when you know what it sounds like and have the basic / minimal knowledge in it.

2. And it is a big deal that we have to add Vidwan/Vidushi or at least Shri. in front of the musicians name because they have earned it by hard practice and perseverance. You cannot address every man or woman as a Vidwan or a Vidushi. It is just a matter of respect to their knowledge in the subject and their experience.

[khanjirachavana]

I do understand the feed back monitor which perhaps gets the first attention. If it were to be faulty or so, then it needs to happen often. This of course in this venue is not likely. A human error too of this kind can be eliminated with a proper feed-back system. That was my main concern in the posting.
At least the organizer needs to intervene and fix it or the musicians can generously ask for a feed-back from the audience. It needs to be accepted. After they are performing for the rasika hope fully and not for just their own satisfaction.
By the way when this increase of volume was going on that day it was at the amusement of many like me (not fanatic followers).

Mr./Ms. Ramam (as I am not able to figure out your gender)

Do you seriously think that the artist should ask the rasikas about the feedback on the "monitor"? I am really surprised and shocked that claiming yourself to be a "huge follower and fan" of carnatic music, you have no knowledge about what a monitor is!!!!!!

[Nick H]

The audience is not concerned with what the artists hear --- but some of us appreciate that they cannot play if they cannot hear each other. Few audience members who have never been on stage, even as amateurs, appreciate those difficulties or understand the role of the monitor speakers: they see artists sitting a few feet apart, and cannot comprehend that they can't hear each other.

Unfortunately, many artists seem totally unconcerned with what the audience hear, leaving us either unable to hear one or more artists at all, or being deafened, either by individual players or by the overall volume. We only came to listen to the musicians; all of the musicians including each and every accompanist.

Usually the fault is with the sound man, and musicians, especially percussionists, are unfairly blamed. However, this is not always the case.

When musicians and audience can start working together on this then we might start seeing an end to the all-too-regular problems.

[khanjirachavana]

The audience is not concerned with what the artists hear --- but some of us appreciate that they cannot play if they cannot hear each other. Few audience members who have never been on stage, even as amateurs, appreciate those difficulties or understand the role of the monitor speakers: they see artists sitting a few feet apart, and cannot comprehend that they can't hear each other.

Unfortunately, many artists seem totally unconcerned with what the audience hear, leaving us either unable to hear one or more artists at all, or being deafened, either by individual players or by the overall volume. We only came to listen to the musicians; all of the musicians including each and every accompanist.

Usually the fault is with the sound man, and musicians, especially percussionists, are unfairly blamed. However, this is not always the case.

When musicians and audience can start working together on this then we might start seeing an end to the all-too-regular problems.

Hi Nick,

Thank you for supporting me on the "sound issue".

Yes, the artists and the percussionists are blamed for no reason in such concerts where there was a loud noise or no volume at all. As a huge fan of CM and a personal attendee of that concert, I know the technical problems which caused the issue that evening. It was with great difficulty the whole concert was managed.

And I would also like to bring to the notice of the moderator here a thing or two through this post.
Criticism is always a part of any art form. Especially when it comes to CM, there are a number of rasikas who have knowledge in this matter and share their views from their perspective. But it should not go to a level that they start suggesting the artist what to play and what not to play. That would be a statement and getting personal with the artist. What ever be the age of the rasika, he/she should have a sense of decorum in writing a review or sharing a thought in a diplomatic way. This is a public forum and not 2-3 friends chatting over sipping coffee.

I also would request the rasikas, henceforth not to get personal with any artist. There is a humongous difference sitting in the hall as an audience and sitting on the stage as artists. We are audience because we are just used to listen to music. They are artists because they have practiced and put all their experience while playing.

Thank you.

[Nick H]

Criticism is always a part of any art form. Especially when it comes to CM, there are a number of rasikas who have knowledge in this matter and share their views from their perspective. But it should not go to a level that they start suggesting the artist what to play and what not to play.

If a rasika, or just a simple audience member without claim to that title, feels that an artist on stage has not played appropriately, they have every right to say so, even if they are wrong. If wrong, we can be corrected. If we are confusing our own personal taste with dogma, then that can be pointed out too. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether it is informed or uninformed, and many of the elder members (even some of the younger too) here are hugely well-informed.

That some do confuse their own personal tastes and opinions with dogma that they feel should be imposed across the musical board maybe unfortunate, but it is a human failing, and we are all simply human. There is usually no shortage of people to speak up for opposing points of view.

As I said before, we are all here because we love music, and it goes with saying that we respect and admire the musicians who bring it to us. The standard at which the least among them bring us unprepared, unrehearsed compositions and improvised music is something that probably never will cease to amaze me.

I believe that the moderators are only concerned when our human failings cross the line of being hurtful, spiteful or rude to/about either artists or each other. Again, there are are differing opinions as to where that line should be drawn. There have been times when I have thought it should be stricter: equally, if it was, some of my own posts might well have been deleted.

[vasanthakokilam]

But it should not go to a level that they start suggesting the artist what to play and what not to play. That would be a statement and getting personal with the artist. What ever be the age of the rasika, he/she should have a sense of decorum in writing a review or sharing a thought in a diplomatic way.

Point well taken. Reading the first post again, I think that original poster could have made the point much more politely and without indulging in suggesting to a senior artist how to do his job. I can see how upsetting it is to the artists and their fans. Whether the mods get in the middle of this is the tricky part. We have left it for other rasikas to offer counter points. I think that has been done sufficiently and so we will leave it at that. I will let the original poster come forward and offer a modification to his/her post, if he/she so chooses. But the counter points have done that job already.

Believe me, one of the most stressful issue in the moderating effort is to make the judgement call whether a particular negative view point is due to some disgruntled rasikas having an axe to grind against that artist or it is just an honest feedback/expression of what they actually felt during concert. We do not want the former. ( needless to say, no matter which way the decision goes, the mods will get complaints, sometimes quite harshly, from the other side but that is par for the course )

The audio issue is a much broader issue which afflicts a lot of CM concerts and discussing that for the umpteenth time hopefully will have some incremental benefit.

[khanjirachavana]

Mr Amrit. Pl stick to Khanjira and get your sense more refined..

Hi Nick,

I totally appreciate your support on the cause of not being hurtful or rude while commenting/reviewing a concert. While on this and not getting deviated from the topic, the only reason I am taking the thread this far is because of the above quoted comment. That was a personal blow to the artist (intentional or unintentional). I too stand for the rights of the rasika to comment on any one point or the full concert. It,is as I said before, depends totally on their tastes and their perspective. But telling an artist of that caliber to get his senses more refined is not a comment or criticism. It is a personal statement. Mr./Ms. Ramam has straight away written off the artist's ability and his knowledge in music without knowing him or his musical experience. I do not believe that this person has any authority or rights to take on any artist individually and insult them in any public forum. No artist (junior or senior) of any caliber would like to be told this.
The rasika has also pointed out that Vid. Amrit as an upcoming artist. I would like to bring to their notice that Vid. Amrit is an artist of international fame and one of the most sought after. His handling capabilities, understanding music and experience in the concert goes beyond his age. This proves the person's overall knowledge about the artists and CM and it is in turn that the person who made such a comment should refine, re-define and re-educate himself in all aspects.

The whole point, finally, is to say that there should be no personal comments in a public forum. Though there is a right to speech it is not appropriate and right to deform somebody's image and peace.

[Nick H]

Well, I guess I don't feel like appearing, in this instance, as attorney either for the prosecution or the defence

Perhaps what Ramam said is correct, perhaps it is not. I have to accept that it hurt your sensibilities, that is a fact. Perhaps [s]he might have expressed the same thing in a way that might not have offended you...

[SKA]

Hmmm.... I dont understand why so much has been talked about nothing - clearly its just "Ramam's" vent of personal vengeance against Vid. Amrit and this is by no stretch of imagination a rasika observation or critique. Many young karnatik artists are actually performing super good now - and certainly Vid Amrit is one of the best among them. if you "Ramam"dont like his performance please stop attending his performances. - simple ! - There are many of us who enjoy the old styled power packed performance of laya vidhwans. do not discourage them by your silly remarks - Hope my observation will be taken positively

[thathwamasi]

Logging into rasiaks after a long time and found this thread pretty interesting. I have my two cents on this issue.

1. There have been various views on whether one must add Shri or Vidwan or Vidushi to a musician's name. I think it will be good to do that. But it is not a crime to not do that. End of the day, a musician is a performing artist, just like a cinema star or a sportsperson. We don't call actors as Shri. Vijay or Shri. Ajith while reviewing a movie of theirs. Nor do we resort to the same while reviewing a cricket match. So I guess its okay to not refer them with a title.

2. Regarding the mic issue, Im not much of a sound expert. But I personally feel that Palghat Mani Iyer was right in saying that one need not use a mic. The experience of a micless concert is immense. A micless carnatic music concert is a dimension by itself. I would personally like to listen to/play more micless concerts in the future.

Regards
T

[Ramam]

At least the organizer needs to intervene and fix it or the musicians can generously ask for a feed-back from the audience. It needs to be accepted. After they are performing for the rasika hope fully and not for just their own satisfaction.
....My quote
khanjirachavana pl note.
The earlier para to this was on feedback monitor. This (next) para is an alternative or a supplement. Its plain english which is the language of this forum. Ravikiran either on gottuvadyam or chitraveena does ask for the audience satisfaction. TMK also does this when in doubt on the monitor system.

Sound system at Gayana Samaja:

Interestingly TMK had a rough time at the recent annual festival coming to the level of getting rid of the mike. This happened a month back in the same venue. The artist was uncomfotable with the monitor systems. By the way when he performed sans mike he asked for the audience satisfaction. There is some problem in the Gayana Samaja monitor systems are coming thru the mixer. Hyderabad brothers did complain on the same issue only a week later after two songs. The organisers took proper action which they missed for TMK.


Threads need to elevate the forum. Artist can be good on a day or the other way. That is not the point. High volume for a laya vadyam is not good for capturing the attention of the audience. Pakka vadym essentially need to supplement the main artist's prentation. That day Amrit was not on his instrument second the volume for mridhangam exceeded that of the main artist. My gender or my knowledge are silly baits to respond. Please listen to music for three decades the substance will be clear.

Amrit , again

I did attend at Basaveswaranagar a concert by Saketaraman, couple of months back. The mridhangam was Ramanamurthy and Khanjira , ofcourse , Amrit. The gathering was near 50. The audio was in balance. The laya support was quite good. Indeed the tani was good from both the artist. I have to mention that the strain in Saketharaman at higher octaves was well covered by both of them. To make it amply clear, Amrit was good. I was not in Bangalore for some time to follow this.

Again on mridhangam, the nadai to play for a composition is distinct to that of Khanjira. Amrit can stick to khanjira ( Not mridhangam), I stand by my statement. He does have the nuances for Khanjira. Laya in tani is an exhibition which sometimes big artist like UKS have deflected. The soukyam to play the sangita trimurthies and their great compositions is itself an artist's showcase. They have covered besides tha raga and divine, the laya aspects in both kalam ,neglecting aksharams etc.,. Shyama shastri's compositions are laya personified. The sollukattu by the laya artists being fit impromptu for a sangathi brings more satisfaction than forming a sequence of fractions adding to integral number( this can be attained with decent home work). To get the former one needs to be blessed.

I look for this soukyam from the main artist and also from the pakka vadyams. Sound system needs to be in balance to get this soukyam.

[vasanthakokilam]

Ramam, Fine, all well taken except one little problem. I think it would have been a lot less controversial had you just limited your review to your impressions on what happened that day and your expectations ( which you did cover well and adequately. ) and not resort to 'advising' artists what they should or should not do ( like stick to Kanjira and not take up mridangam etc. ). Even preferable is not to browbeat, and to tone down the patronizing tone. This way the focus would be on the message and not the messenger.

Given your knowledge in this matter, I think you should open a thread in the Laya sub-forum and write about your views and expectations on how accompaniments should play for the songs of the various composers including the trinity. I think it is an interesting topic and many of us can learn from that.

In one of the topics many years back, our member 'mridangam' balaji mentioned something about 'Asu'. The very little I gleaned from that is some of the laya patterns that are in vogue today come from Sri. Thyagaraja's songs. I wanted to know more about that and how mridangists use that to aesthetically constructing kOrvais. ( that is, add beauty to the arithmetic ).

[Nick H]

Ramam seems more browbeaten than browbeating to me.

He had an opinion about the performance of a specific artist in a specific concert. He expressed it. He was a little forthright, as some of us can be sometimes. Nearly forty posts followed...

[vasanthakokilam]

Alright, fair enough. Browbeat withdrawn. As for the rest, while I am all for good and frank reviews and constructive criticisms, the problem is with the age old conservative and anachronistic practice of telling people 'you are not good at this. Stick to what you know'. I do not think that is a good practice beyond the jovial way of stating 'don't quit your day job' . That will only work in one's familiar circle. The other place it is used is when someone is really angry at someone and wants to give it to them with the intention to hurt. I do not think either situation applies here.
Of course, one can maintain that they are really in the neutral in between position and telling it as it is and it may be good for the artist to know that ( even if it is a generalization based on one or two performances ). I am saying that one should not to be surprised if the other side takes offence at that.

[Nick H]

Yes, OK... so, the criticism is ok; taking offense at the criticism is ok.

In a way I can go for that. Both sides are human reactions, although I still think that if a person becomes a performing artist that they are fair game for criticism. There is a sort of trickle-down thing in carnatic music: because of a handful of people who have been or are extraordinary performers, a subset of whom were/are also extraordinary people, somehow we are expected to touch the feet (metaphorically) of all the others. The whole thing is complicated by the fact that the music itself is mostly devotional, which adds a further aura of "protection" for those who perform it.

Criticism can be right, wrong, even completely misguided or based on ignorance, but the person still has the right to it. As others do to point out its errors.

I have a firm belief in respect. Respect for music, respect for artist, respect for audience. I don't think we can have enough of any of those, and I certainly don't think that we do have enough, which is obvious from audience behaviour, beginning in the front row. None of this says there can not be criticism.

[varsha]

Nick said
I have a firm belief in respect. Respect for music, respect for artist, respect for audience. I don't think we can have enough of any of those

When asked by a disciple if there were one single word which could serve as a principle of conduct for life, Confucius replied “Perhaps the word reciprocity will do”.

[Nick H]

I used to say to myself, "If they want to chat to music, why don't they stay at home and put on a cd?"

Then I thought, maybe I should say, "If I want to listen to music without interruption, maybe I should stay at home and put on a cd!"



But, the flow of respect in the concert hall has many vectors, two-way between artists and audience is just the start.

[arasi]

So,
It all boils down not to
Double trouble--
But to accord, regard, respect, to be in a reciprocal state, whatever...
Which by the way, are all doubly rewarding

Again, if something appeals not,
Why not save oneself from trouble--
Double or triple??

[Ramam]

An advice to restrict to Khanjira is like
-- some advising Unni to stick to film music. See many reviews describing that his sahitya is difficult to follow, post play back era. In fact many posts have observed that he carries on stage with unnecessary sounds along with the sahitya (that are not Carnatic). I have stopped to hear his droolings( I do not have a better word).

A different shade of feeling otherwise is :
Manjunath (violinst) and Anoor (mridhangam) can also perform as vocalist. TNS restorted to Veena when his voice let down sometime in the last decade. Listening we can feel the same. One can feel if only TNS sang during the Veena performance.
By the way TNS can play khanjira, flute also.
Its simple. The Monodarama which is the essence of the Carnatic Music is misplaced.
Of course Gayaka bhava is allowed in instrumental. That remains the artist forte. Semmangudi , TNS and now Sanjay sing many places following nadhaswara dharma.

Incase of Amrit his reaction and filling korvis in anticipation before take off the next swara prasthana or while joining the niraval do demarcate him as a saha-pakka-vadya player. His mridhangam was may have nadai (laya) yet there was a want of soukyam ( sans the manodharma of Murthy/ UKS/ Vellore etc.,). Sound was adding the woes.
On Saturday 17th Nov his khanjira accompaniment to Malladi Brothers reaffirmed his skills (c/o Organizers Hamsadwani). Tumkur Ravishankar infact was short on Mridhangam.

Bye

[Rsachi]

Rasikas,
I heard from a knowledgeable friend who attended the BMK concert on 17 Nov. at BGS that in the fifth row, he measured on his phone app a dBm level of 90 dB!

By any chance is there some tie-up between hearing aid makers and sound system minders? :^)
I am tempted to take my dBPro iPad and check it next time myself, but then wiser counsel prevails.

PS: Both Widex and Siemens hearing aid centres are in Indiranagar at a walking distance.