Thani (Mini) Avarthanams

[sairaam]

http://concertsummary.blogspot.in/2012/ ... -mini.html

[Nick H]

I call that a "CD Thani" and it is appropriate when, for some reason, the concert is only 1.5 hours or less. On those occasions, we often do not feel we have had our fill of the main artist even. Sometimes we feel cheated out of a favourite percussionist, sometimes the timing just works. The worst thing that can happen in a short concert is when the percussionists don't seem to know that they have already had much more than their share!

[sairaam]

Yes that problem is also there.

But there are quite a few instances this season, where tukkadas are for 20 mins and thani is for 5-6 mins (for both mridangam + kanjira/ghatam).

Its a pity to see tukkada pieces given more importance than thani.

[Nick H]

I agree. Quite a few people won't, though!

[carnatricks]

i agree. a thani is as important as any other part of the concert. i also enjoy it and look forward to it when certain mridangists perform.

[mahesu]

Already there is a large hue and cry if a mridangam vidwan enjoys a little higher given volume on a given day (of course this is another topic!!), now the trend of mini avarthanam, whereby the main artist wants to enjoy the maximum time for themselves. Looks like the day is not far away when there will be no mike for a mridangam and no thani, so that the main artist would consume all the time available, as we see laya interest (or gnana) among rasikas is fading slowly. It is a pity state though

[sureshvv]

Laya is really about much more than just percussion

[semmu86]

We have only the ATTITUDE of most of the main artists to blame. They want the Mrudangam artists to be just as a time keeper rather than to embellish the concert as a whole. This was NOT the attitude of previous generation musicians like DKJ-KVN-MDR-Ramnad Krishnan and the likes. So the standard of percussion is bound to go down & people tend to lose interst.

Much has beeen written and spoken about this in various topics. So if you are the one who appreciates & enjoys percussion, make sure to not miss out on the concerts of select artists.

[rajeshnat]

Semmu86
Playing tani has to be relative to the concert duration. Period.

From one angle unless the tani is encouraged more and more the percussionist may even play lesser interesting patterns even during the krithi rendition , kind of symbiotic effect of tani that goes to songs too all in longer turn.

But from other angle , when we are satisfied with a very concise violin return , like thiruvalangAdu sundaresa Iyer even calling his concise alapana returns as suswara sangeetham, cant the same yardstick be applied to mrudangist . Of course yes there are few technicalities that can only be played during tani but may be not in song rendition.

I dont know which of my two viewpoints is right, as I am confused myself. I myself flip flop between two viewpoints. The problem of shortened concerts is mother of all problems. I am not sure you can blame on the main artists Attitude(though there could be few cases), it is only concert duration .

One solution I can think of for atleast concerts that are 2 hours and 15 mins or less:
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If there is both pakkavadhyam and upapakkavadhyam artist , let the tani be played only by the mrudangist . This is not the perfect solution but with duration of concerts dictating everything,this is the best alternative.

What is your viewpoint on the solution .??

[sairaam]

That will be too rude on part of upa-pakavadyam.. There had been crowd waiting for Harishankar to play Thani.. Between some in current generation are really good.

This is will create even more chaos

[rajeshnat]

That will be too rude on part of upa-pakavadyam.. There had been crowd waiting for Harishankar to play Thani.. Between some in current generation are really good.

This is will create even more chaos

If you want to really hear the excellance of a tani like harishankar(or any upapakkavadhyam) in a lesser than 2 hour 15 mins concert , that particular day the vocalist should have a real bad sore throat , so that tani is purposely set long for minimum 20 mins or more. It will always be next to impossibility for you to go gA gA for an upapakkavAdhyam due to lack of time .

Right now when concerts are for 2 hours 15 mins and less - when both pakkavAdhyam and upa pakkavadhyam are interested in showcasing both their skills , we need a time machine like back to the future movie so that rasikas feel that the vocal part is not eaten by the tani . The solution I propose will atleast give laya buffs like semmu86 and may be you too a feel that you have atleast heard a great tani by mrudangist .It is the best compromise, we cant satisfy all .

[sairaam]

In that case, Sacrificing Tukkadas wud be even better option

[rajeshnat]

In that case, Sacrificing Tukkadas wud be even better option

sacrificing tukkadas will also end up as sacrificing career for the vocalist musician .

[sairaam]

IMHO If a singer has to run a career coz of his tukkadas and not his 'Main' pieces, i think its better he need not have one.

[semmu86]

Semmu86
Playing tani has to be relative to the concert duration. Period.

Absolutely. No question on that.

From one angle unless the tani is encouraged more and more the percussionist may even play lesser interesting patterns even during the krithi rendition , kind of symbiotic effect of tani that goes to songs too all in longer turn.

But from other angle , when we are satisfied with a very concise violin return , like thiruvalangAdu sundaresa Iyer even calling his concise alapana returns as suswara sangeetham, cant the same yardstick be applied to mrudangist . Of course yes there are few technicalities that can only be played during tani but may be not in song rendition.

UKS Sir often tells that if a mrudangam artiste cannot make an impression in 3 mins, there is no point even if the main artist encourages a 30 min thani. The point here is about the skill of the mrudangam artist of the day and also about the main artists encouraging them by giving them a free hand to showcase their vidwath during accompaniment and also during thani.

I am not sure you can blame on the main artists Attitude(though there could be few cases), it is only concert duration .

One solution I can think of for atleast concerts that are 2 hours and 15 mins or less:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If there is both pakkavadhyam and upapakkavadhyam artist , let the tani be played only by the mrudangist . This is not the perfect solution but with duration of concerts dictating everything,this is the best alternative.

What is your viewpoint on the solution .??

If you happen to observe some old concerts of SSI, MDR etc (Duration of more than 3 hours).. thani by top maestros by UKS, TS (Inclusive of upa-pakkavadhyams) will not be for more than 10 mins max. If it is only mrudangam, thani will be hardly for 7-8 mins. But that will give an impression of a 30 minute thani. So again it all depends on the calibre of the Mrudangam artists and also the attitude of the main artists.

[Nick H]

It is my humble (well, not really ) opinion that all of this works out ok in the majority of concerts. There may be main artists that are mean to their accompanists, they may be mridangists that are mean to their fellow percussion players. In fact there are! I hate to see a violinist never allowed to play a proper alapana return, and I don't like to see a mridangist play all the time, despite not being the only percussion artist. It is not necessarily out of any feelings of human fairness (although I think it is unfair, and can amount to rudeness) that I say this, it is because I believe that a variation in the musical texture is good for our ears, good for our minds, and good for keeping our attention: it is a matter of good orchestration.

For the most part, when that good orchestration happens, it goes unnoticed. It is an art like typography: only noticed when it is bad!

Concerts where one of the percussionists is a star must be allowed to have rules of their own. If the top names of mridangam, kanjira, ghatam, are not given their due recognition in time, even they do not complain, the audience will. I'm sure that main artists recognise when they have such a person on stage with them.

[KNV1955]

Sairaamji I am a huge fan of Palghat Raghu. But my views on Thukkadas are different. Here is my article on Thukkadas in Sruti Blog.

http://srutimag.blogspot.in/2012/12/the ... cheri.html
KNV

[srikant1987]

I really can't say whether I like short tanis or long tanis; either way it will be a crude generalisation. However, (a) a tani should have all constituent parts, (b) in case of a concert with a pallavi, an earlier krrti should also have a tani. This second point was made by UKS himself in a Malladi Bros' concert last season I think. I guess tani to krtis are something like explorimg a 'prasiddha' ragam, and tani to pallavis, like exploring a rare ragam. Just as a concert with only rare ragams could turn out to be utterly boring or greekandlatin, likewise for only having tani for pallavi.

[mahesu]

If the duration of Tani is going to be measured as proportion to concert duration, then the duration raga alapanas of main artist and Violin artist also should be limited to the proportion of concert duration. Discipline should not be enforced only on select group of artist. The stage is Saraswathi peetam and no artist is lesser than other on the stage, Period.

[Nick H]

Let us not even think about words like "enforcing!" Exclamation Mark!