Is Carnatic Music on the way out ?

[Shivadasan]

In his article V.Ramnarayan points out how Hindustani Music has encroached into Carnatic Music.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... 259898.ece
He writes,
"Charukeshi, Kirvani, Hansdhwani… (note the spellings). We heard them all this season or in the weeks leading up to it. So did we listen to Sohni, (Hindustani) Todi, Hindol, even Shudh Sohni. In case you are wondering if a constellation of Hindustani musicians crashlanded in Chennai, we heard them all in Carnatic music concerts.

The north Indian avatars of some of these raga-s have been masquerading as Carnatic ragas in kutcheri-s of recent vintage — as Charukesi, Keeravani, Hamsadhwani, Hamsanandi or Vasanta. Not to mention Kafi, Patdeep, Behag, Bairagi, Brindavani Sarang, Madhmat Sarang and Shudh Sarang, besides the notoriously popular Ahir Bhairav, Kedar, Madhuvanti and Bhairavi, with or without Carnatic monikers.
The crowning glory was achieved by Yaman, that staple fare of Hindustani musicians visiting Chennai, when one of our young stars made it the piece-de-resistance of an epic journey of winding, gliding twists and turns through three octaves. Kalyani was however the raga announced. "

In the thread "What is ailing CM?"
The posts from Mahavishnu and CMlover show some light on this subject.
Mahavishnu
Here is Sri Pantulu's take on what he sees as ailing CM in 1933. And I'm posting this here so people can see the generally myopic view we have on history (full link here: http://issuu.com/themusicacademy/docs/ma_journals_1933). I quote:

"THe history of South Indian music during the last quarter of a century is the lamentable changeover, from the reign of soulful melody, to the tyranny of the mechanical drum. Raga has been dethroned and tala has usurped the supremacy. The practice of mathematical svara permutations has frozen up the fountains of creative joy of the emotional spirit. Today it is the scale that is attacked; the raga is seldom rendered. This mechanical attitude of the musician has had its reaction upon public taste. A singer has come to be esteemed less for those exquisite touches of melody that move even non-sentient beings than for the number of svara avruttas with which he can overwhelm the drummer. Equally reprehensible is the vice which with an interminable load of monotonous sangatis, overburdens the graceful and delicate musical forms of the master composers. A certain measure of latitude for indulging in phrase extension may not be improper, where it is governed by good tast and a regard for and understanding of the bhava of the compositions. It is not true freedom which ill accords with discipline. Another weakness which is characteristic of the age we live in, is the craze for speed thrills. No more is heard of the soft and restful rendering of the great passion modes, with graceful slides and long drawn notes, teh favoured haunts where the spirit of the raga forever dwells! The age of Melody is gone; that of the Drum, the Morsing and the kanjira has succeeded!"...

CMlover
"I am not surprised by the comment on the deterioration of the 'Trinty Music'. It was the time when the young SSI introduced fast swara kalpana which earned for him the title 'Electric cheenu' much detested by the veterans. Enter GNB with his Briga imitating Nadaswaram which was the bete-noire! HMB was ridiculed by ARI fo attempting his own compositions who himself had put the first nail in the cofffin of Trinity Music.
Why are we complaining about the direction CM is taking now! As Chairman Mao would have proclaimed " let a thousand innovations bloom in CM..."

Does puttng them all together lead to a conclusion that the fate of CM is similar to that of Tamil language ?
மெல்ல தமிழ் இனி சாகும் (Tamil now die with a whimper)
Shivadasan

[mahavishnu]

Sri Shivadasan: Actually, I was arguing for quite the opposite. The doomsday prediction was made in 1933 and we seem to be doing just fine today. I was highlighting the irony in that original argument of Sri Pantulu, which seems to be making its rounds again today in various forms, the Ramnarayan article being another avatar of the same.

RE: Ramnarayan's article. A healthy use of many of these so-called hindustani ragas existed since the times of Dikshitar. And the origin/grammar of Desiya ragas was codified quite nicely in the SSP.

My position has always been that Carnatic music is doing just fine. Nothing is ailing Carnatic music, it is not on its way out. We should just let her be.

[varsha]

Ramnarayan's article is a poor one .By any standards.Worth ignoring.

[cmlover]

I agree. Tamil 5000 years young will never die! And so will CM.....
Evolution does not mean Extinction!

[Nick H]

There are expat subsets that want to deny their roots*. BBC's Goodness Gracious Me was doing skits on this a couple of decades ago. It still seems to me that if one wants to learn a language which would be understood by someone in the crowd around you in very many places in the world, Tamil wouldn't be a bad choice.

My position has always been that Carnatic music is doing just fine. Nothing is ailing Carnatic music, it is not on its way out. We should just let her be.

The concert listing in today's Hindu is back to a managable late-season size today. Reports of the death of CM are exaggerated. But they will be repeated every year!


*Maybe I'm even becoming part of one! Like the BBC's Kapurs becoming Coopers, Nick H has become H. Nick!

[varsha]

Code: Select all

 Nick H has become H. Nick! 

Maybe if you chatted more during concerts- or gesticulated more , we would have called you
Nikumo Nickado

[rajeshnat]

In ramnarayan's article, i think there are two sets of points one is welcoming more and more ragas from hindustani to CM . THe other is not giving too much of hindustani sangathis to very carnatic ragas like giving too much of yaman touch while singing kalyani etc (that is what shri v ramnarayan is more talking about) , which I think carnatic musicians should avoid

Is V ramnarayan related to Gowri ramnarayan.?

[Nick H]

Nikumo Nickado

(you'll have to slip me a quiet explanation of that one).

Anyway, everything is on the way out on 21 December, so ...Oh! Wait!

[Ramasubramanian M.K]

Rajeshnat: YES!! Ramnarayan is Gowri's hubby!!!In his younger days he was a good cricketer--generally a good writer but I am not so sure of his writings on Music--I could be wrong.

Generally speaking,how much of HM is being imported into CM and similar issues of 'feared dilution" of our traditions and cultures--seems to me a personal viewpoint. The market place sustains any alleged "fads" upto a point and if it has "legs" it gets incorporated into the genre. If not the fad too passes--example in the early to late Sixties ,BMK tried to popularise 4-swara ragas---most of them his inventions-While his execution may have been flawless this did not catch on and was not universally followed by either his contemporaries or by younger upcoming musicians of that time. Today how many CM musicians sing these rare ragas? Similarly,MSG in his early debut,demonstrated the HM style in his ragas elaboration but later on mellowed and blossomed as an excellent,talented but restrained and pleasant accompaniment. In my opinion his popularity soared after he modulated the style--whether this was brought about by any audience reaction or feedback or as an organic realisation on his own--is immaterial.

My view on such things is try to be objective--if the musician incorporates HM into his/her singing--before getting ruffled by any seeming threat to tradition--see how well he/she executed the phrases. If your knowledge of HM is "assaulted" by the musician's execution,just let it pass before taking up the cudgels against the trend!!

Personally I think our CM musicians have to be congratulated for being eclectic and not insular .

CM is too deeply rooted and none of us-rasikas or performers--however popular or influential we may think we are --need worry about its preservation and propagation notwithstanding the "alleged" intrusion of HM or Bollywood music into our cultures!!
let's save ourselves from "the bane of bigotry"--this was the title of an article by GNB in the late forties published in the Shanmukha magazine --No one has better credentials to write about innovations in Music(being an avid GNB fan--I admit I am biased!!!)than GNB!!!

[rajeshnat]

My view on such things is try to be objective--if the musician incorporates HM into his/her singing--before getting ruffled by any seeming threat to tradition--see how well he/she executed the phrases. If your knowledge of HM is "assaulted" by the musician's execution,just let it pass before taking up the cudgels against the trend!!

Beautifully written post MKR sir. For me I view as a two way traffic, where one way there is speedbreaker and the other is a superhighway without any blocks .

When one brings HM rAgas into mainstream CM it is a super human effort that I always appreciate . To give an example in the last 7 years I have heard pallavis . For eg Jog pallavi (by Suryaprakash and Trichur Brothers), patdeep (by sanjay), miyan ki malhar (by suryaprakash). It gives so much of oomph effect where really i get a feel that HM is incorporated into CM idioms and I am experiencing history , just as how you had experienced when darbari kanada was brought in before I was born or when I was a young kid.

BUt the other way traffic is some thing I dont like it that much. To have fleeting HM touches is great. At times we are losing a very intense carnatic flavour which is missing when too much HM sangathis come into a very established CM rAgA . For example too much of bhupali traces into mohanam , too much of yaman traces into kalyAni(which is mentioned in the article). I presume Shri Ramnarayanan is more talking about this aspect, which in my opinion is quite perfect .

[sureshvv]

If not the fad too passes--example in the early to late Sixties ,BMK tried to popularise 4-swara ragas---most of them his inventions-While his execution may have been flawless this did not catch on and was not universally followed by either his contemporaries or by younger upcoming musicians of that time. Today how many CM musicians sing these rare ragas?

I wouldn't give up on them yet. I am sure like the dvi-madhyama raga kritis, they will be rediscovered at some time.

[mahavishnu]

I am with Suresh on this one. Although, I am not sure if MKR was being rhetorical...

But the reality is that BMK's ragams like Lavangi are sung by a number of mainstream musicians today (not including Rama Varma). In fact, the penetration of this BMK raga is deeper than most mela scales that have been codified for a long time, but still remain under explored. When was the last time we heard dhatuvardhani or suvamangi in the concert circuit?

[srikant1987]

Nikumo Nickado
(you'll have to slip me a quiet explanation of that one).

Don't know if Varsha explained that over email (quietly). It actually took some time for me to understand too. "Nikumo Nikado" roughly means "will he ever stop [chattering]?"

[arasi]

Yes. Will it (the chatter--pEchu) stop or not?
pEchu niRkumO niRkAdO?

[Nick H]

Excellent. This could apply to either my fellow concert goers ...or to myself!

I had better not enquire further :$