Sanjay@SPSS 30/12/2012

hema · Post by **hema** » 30 Dec 2012, 23:35

Quoting somebody on this forum two years ago:

"Sardines tightly packed in a tin." This aptly describes how the audience is packed in the hall. Add to this the heat, the artistes sweating, the audience sweating, the loud speakers blaring, the percussionists drumming away, but what a concert!

I have been regular over the last few years to many of concerts of Sanjay, TMK, Abhisekh, etc.
I feel they give their best at this Sabha. I wonder whether it has got to do with the local knowledgeable middle class
audience.

Here is the list:
Kedaram: Saami nii rammana ve (?) -- varnam -- talam ??
Ganamoorthi: Ganamoorthe
Sree: Karuna judu ninnu -- Syama Shastri
Dwijavanthi(?) -- Cheeta sri balakrishnam

Sankarabaranam: manam vaitharul -- Aanaiya (I wonder who this is -- told by SS)
What a Sankarabaranam -- this is my third concert with Varadarajan accompanying -- he listens and anticipates, embellishes the phrases even better -- I feel he is really the soul of Sanjay's concerts. The tani was
S Raja Rao and Trichy Murali(?) -- it was good but way too loud.

Ritigowla: Solla vallayo kiliye
I have not heard either the Sankarabaranam or the Ritigowla before.

Hamsanandi: RTP: Kannanai Pani maname karmegha kamala ...
Ragamalika swarams -- Madhyamavathi(? -- I am not sure that I did not hear a D), Vasantha(?), Dhanyasi, Kalyani,
Anandabhairavi,

Khamaas: Mataada vaa (baa?) ... Kannada song

Viruttam: Vizhikku (I have heard this before) -- ragamalika -- ?, Kaapi (?), Indolam, Mohanam -- this was really
great. It was long. The syllables in the song matching the stress on the note
This was followed by Brindavanam Idhuvo
Desh: ettanai koti
Nadanamakriya: Appane, ...

It is really a great concert to end the season with.

Now I would like to request other rasikas on this forum for the following. I know that many of you are NRI.
How about building a good hall for SPSS? It is the oldest sabha in the city. This can be done in the same
premises. The hall can be shared by both the sabha and owners of the place otherwise.

I am willing to make a donation of Rs. 25K. Are you???:-)))

rshankar · Post by **rshankar** » 31 Dec 2012, 01:08

A wonderful review - thank you Hema! I am amazed by how professional these artists are - presenting such wonderful kRtis when they are getting cooked!

hema wrote:my third concert with Varadarajan accompanying -- he listens and anticipates, embellishes the phrases even better -- I feel he is really the soul of Sanjay's concerts.

Maybe Varadarajan is to Sanjay what the dancers call the orcehstra - their bahi prANa - extra-corporeal life-force

hema wrote:Ritigowla: Solla vallayo kiliye

This is a composition of the mahAkavi - Smt. Sowmya sings it as a rAgamAlikA. We discussed the composition a long time ago - Here's the link

Sabaash · Post by **Sabaash** » 31 Dec 2012, 02:40

Thanks Hema for the wonderful review.

Adding on :
The rtp ragamalika was done in Devamanohari, Kannada, Danyasi, Kalyani and Anandabhairavi.
The ragamalika had a small concept /theme within itself. All the swara prastharams were based on a kriti in each of these ragas, each kriti being set to mishra chapu tala. (The RTP was also in the same tala)

To explain better : from what I could understand and comprehend

Devamanohari swaram contained some notations from the kriti Evarikai
Kannada - Sree Mathrubhootham
Danyasi - Meenalochana
Kalyani - Bhajare re chitha (?)
Anandabhairavi - Mariveregathi

A big salute to Sanjay for the idea, and to Varadarajan for making it even more beautiful.

The sriragam kriti Karuna joodu was also brilliant.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 31 Dec 2012, 03:37

Khamaas: Mataada vaa (baa?) ... Kannada song

mAtAda bAradEnO - Khamas - Bangalore nAgaratnammA.

Lakshman · Post by **Lakshman** » 31 Dec 2012, 04:01

The kEdAra varNa is in rUpaka tAL.
manam vaittaruL tA sundari is by Anai Ayya.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 31 Dec 2012, 06:15

hema wrote:
Quoting somebody on this forum two years ago:

"Sardines tightly packed in a tin." This aptly describes how the audience is packed in the hall. Add to this the heat, the artistes sweating, the audience sweating, the loud speakers blaring, the percussionists drumming away, but what a concert!

I have been regular over the last few years to many of concerts of Sanjay, TMK, Abhisekh, etc.
I feel they give their best at this Sabha. I wonder whether it has got to do with the local knowledgeable middle class
audience.

Let us see.

In 2011, the hall had more people for a lec-dem on Gamakas in Hindustani Ragas by Sriram Parasuram than for the R K Srikantan concert that immediately followed. In fact, half the audience exited at the end of the lec-dem.

This is the audience that sends in requests for abhangs causing the Fat Ghost to appear.

This is the audience that packs the halls for the likes of Sanjay, TMK, Abu Sheikh, The Duelling Abhangists, and the Proprietress of Ye Honourable Olde & Originale Abhangerie.

I think the audience exhibits the collective brains of "sardines tightly packed in a tin".

If sardines have lawyers, I am sure I would be sued for slander for that statement.

uday_shankar · Post by **uday_shankar** » 31 Dec 2012, 06:22

harimau wrote:If sardines have lawyers, I am sure I would be sued for slander for that statement.

...and banished to Sardinia to be jeered at forever by their fellows.

kunthalavarali · Post by **kunthalavarali** » 31 Dec 2012, 08:20

"Viruttam: Vizhikku (I have heard this before) -- ragamalika -- ?"

In fact the viruttam had of three different compositions:

1. Vizhikku: Kanthar alangaram - Kapi
2. Marinindru - Manikavachagar - Mohanam and
3. Oorilen - Tondaradipodi Azhwar pasuram - Suddha dhanyasi

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 31 Dec 2012, 11:38

hema wrote:
I feel they give their best at this Sabha.

Despite harimau's comment, I tend to agree!

kunthalavarali · Post by **kunthalavarali** » 31 Dec 2012, 13:26

Lakshmanji,
That should be "mAnam vaittaruL tA"

hema · Post by **hema** » 31 Dec 2012, 17:52

harimau wrote: Let us see.

In 2011, the hall had more people for a lec-dem on Gamakas in Hindustani Ragas by Sriram Parasuram than for the R K Srikantan concert that immediately followed. In fact, half the audience exited at the end of the lec-dem.

This is the audience that sends in requests for abhangs causing the Fat Ghost to appear.

This is the audience that packs the halls for the likes of Sanjay, TMK, Abu Sheikh, The Duelling Abhangists, and the Proprietress of Ye Honourable Olde & Originale Abhangerie.

I think the audience exhibits the collective brains of "sardines tightly packed in a tin".

If sardines have lawyers, I am sure I would be sued for slander for that statement.

This is piece is well-written. But I have to disagree with EVERYTHING that is said.

Hindustani Ragas -- why not? And exiting -- this also why not -- I made a very quick exit after listening to the Sangita Kalanidi briefly!:-))

I like the experimentation that Sanjays, TMKs, ARs, R&GSs, AS (holy cow or no cow) do. They have the guts which our yesteryear musicians lacked. I am very fond of KVN -- attended many of his concerts -- how often have I heard "Sripade ...", "Tyagaraja yogavaibavam" or "kalikiyunde.." The only person in that generation who was interesting -- an element of surprise in what he might deliver was MDR.

What I find surprising about this forum: a lack of willingness to listen to new offerings. I am sure many of you are academics or professional. Imagine being asked to give the same lecture again and again??? The delivery may be a little different but it can get quite boring for both the taught and the teacher.

The musicians are experimenting with new ragas, new vaggeyakaras. When a new raga is presented -- immediately there will be a discussion about its raktiness! I am really getting tired of these words sowkhyam, rakthi, classicism, ... I personally think rakthi has to do with aesthetics. If a musician feels strongly about a raga and creates aesthetic phrases --that is rakthi -- maduvanthi exposition in SS's MA RTP -- I really, really enjoyed it -- the imagination of the artist to create such a beautiful long swaram needs to be admired. "Rakthi" is in the ears of the listener.

I feel we need openness in listening at the Annual Music Conference and Concerts. The musicians' have worked hard for a year to deliver for us something new. If they deliver the old fare or remixes -- I might as well stay home and listen to the old masters.

Most importantly I am worried that the halls are packed with the older generation, aspiring young musicians and NRIs -- I saw a couple's kids brings cards to the MA and play UNO. I would like the young audiences back only as listeners.
If abhang's and the cow can help bring the young audiences back -- so be it.

Finally, nobody has commented on my donation to PSS -- I talked to a relative of a committee member. Apparently they have funds but are looking for a place in Mylapore to build the sabha. So can this forum help in this matter?

BTW, the promise that I made was 1/4 of my monthly salary at an Indian Univ. With similar pledges in your local currency

)-- I am sure we can find the sabha a place.

sankark · Post by **sankark** » 31 Dec 2012, 18:01

Finally, nobody has commented on my donation to PSS -- I talked to a relative of a committee member. Apparently they have funds but are looking for a place in Mylapore to build the sabha. So can this forum help in this matter?

Of all the places Mylapore only? Why not a Nanganallur or Chromepet or Perambur? Not getting into rakthi and all other sundry items, I think one would need to move out of the 4 - 5 KM radius and move into outer suburbs and into other towns.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 31 Dec 2012, 18:10

Hema-ji,
I heartily support your open attitude to new, creative offerings in CM.
yA dEvI sarvabhUtEShu sRUjanArUpENa saMsthitA....

By the way, even if you evict all the old guard and stuff, a new location and real estate in Mylapore for SPSS will be too costly to fund - even for NRIs perhaps.
You need a plan B. Please discuss with the secretaries.

karthikbala · Post by **karthikbala** » 31 Dec 2012, 20:00

I doubt if we really need one more hall for Carnatic Music. Most musicians perform for a pittance during the music season. I'm not sure what constitutes minimum wage in India, but I know for a fact many of the sabhas pay scandalously low amounts. There are many professional musicians struggling to make a living, especially accompanists. The health and stature of CM (as is the case in any sphere of meaningful activity) will rest squarely on the shoulders of professionals, not the well-heeled dilettantes who come and go. If we cannot take care of them, all the air-conditioned halls with Bose sound systems will matter not a whit.
There are various trusts that try to do their bit in this regard. IMHO, one's contribution is better spent in this direction.
On a general note, consolidation of sabhas and fewer, more financially sound, professionally managed organisations is what we need.

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 01 Jan 2013, 00:48

What I find surprising about some of the people in this forum: a lack of willingness to listen to new offerings.

hema, hope you do not mind my 'fix'. There are quite a few people in the forum who are on your wavelength. Speaking for myself, even if I am not on every wavelet with you, I am probably with you on this one: I do not like to belong to one camp or the other. Not for any altruistic or noble reasons, but just for the most selfish reasons of enjoying music and its variety. Such 'camps' are indeed quite prevalent in CM for a long time, and it is just too easy to succumb to that in matters of art given the inherent fuzziness of rasikathvam. This obviously does not mean one has to be wishy washy and has to like everything. On the contrary, having strong and true convictions of one's own likes and dislikes is a great deterrent to such "automatic" affiliation to camps. ( on a lighter note, such people are the ones who unwittingly become camp starters and leaders. Watch out!! )

In the last century there was not much of a close interactions among rasikas, so such camps are easy to form and they tend to be even multi-generational. But with on line interactions like here, the ball game has indeed changed. I tend to think it has changed for the good.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:08

VK,
Another new year for rasikAs to reaffirm their preferences in music and to renew and expand their perspectives--just by being open minded.
I am not at all among the best of CM rasikas who know the art and the science of it to a great extent. Yet, I know there are more like me among rasikAs who go to listen to music--their love for it propelling them.

I am both a maDi sanchi and a backpacker in my taste for CM and am happy I am that way!
Factions belong in political parties and how CM can flourish without any of those

So, a happy, healthy year to everyone and a sublimely musical one

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:36

The hall can be shared by both the sabha and owners of the place otherwise.

No need to build one . I can offer a top class set up to seat 150 , All we need a committed audience , a mode of paying artists handsomely yet have the right to record and archive for posterity, , a core group of musicians who will decide the limits of transgression ( by acting in a consulting mode ) as well as a performing one.
Looking for the group with the will of a Jack Kramer .The deep pockets of a Kerry Packer coming into play in making it technically advanced in order that members from all continents get to participate in real time.
Drop me a mail on [email protected] or through the forum if you feel like.
I will respond only if i see serious participation within a fortnight.
If not I will send a regret note and announce it here.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:39

varsha wrote: Drop me a mail on [email protected] if you feel like.

How did you get this email address? gmail always wants me to add digits or additional nonsense if i try to use my name for an email id.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:40

i have corrected it to varshaxl- the correct id.

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:45

Aaaaah... apdi va vazhikku

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:48

Varsha,
I am serious in offering to support any effort to improve the listening ambience for CM.
Especially about audio quality. I can even take it up as an area of responsibility with other like-minded.
Thanks for taking the lead!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 01 Jan 2013, 09:53

me three.

Ponbhairavi · Post by **Ponbhairavi** » 01 Jan 2013, 13:22

Would you consider Pondicherry 100 miles away from chennai ? ( two and a half hour by ECR-and there is no dearth of hotels -posh decent medium. Bhairavi has a record of 32 years functioning without a paise of debt as on date.Ask ANY carnatic musician about our hall acoustics, our audience and also whether we pay them decent fees.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 01 Jan 2013, 13:41

2 AND 3 .THANKS.
Ponbhairavi -- Oh yes you could be one of those models for us , going by your work.Being established sabhas in cities other than chennai , we could work like the way the saffron brigade works - under an umbrella .
We could have a blore -hyderabad-trivandrum-pondicherry-chennai axis. I am speaking with some kind of a smashana vairagya, though.

Having seen the screens go up to the horror of artists spotting two , sometimes four in the audience.Yet again.
In a very poignant moment for all arts classical , the artist in one of these concerts sends her 5 year old son to discreetly go beyond the screen , count the strength and report back.
The sweet kid would come out of the folds , delicately scan the audience , and count on those small fingers - one two three four and run inside.
The kid kept doing it for 20 minutes with the mother blissfully unaware of this moment of truth for me.
30 years ago I walked into this city and made it my home for reasons musical.
I live a painful existence here And I am desperate to connect with other cities and the underdog artists.
That is the only way I (we) can give back something.
Maybe after a few weeks when I am sure I am not suffering from vairagya, I will open up a thread on the vision and mission for such a work .
Meanwhile folks in Chennai can keep Feb 3rd evening free.
And folks in blore can meet up with me on Jan 9th - 10th
Please send me mail through the forum.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Jan 2013, 14:27

Varsha-ji
I will be glad to host the gathering in my home on 10 Jan Thu morning.
I request all to contact me and confirm attendance via forum mail.
Thanks,
Sachi R

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 01 Jan 2013, 17:01

Please make it 12th jan morning.
is that ok ? since there is a small change in my schedule
Rsachi.
I will get in touch with you over forum mail

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 01 Jan 2013, 18:39

sure. that would be a Saturday.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 03 Jan 2013, 07:19

hema wrote:
Hindustani Ragas -- why not?

The more important question is: why? If you want to listen to Hindusthani ragas, go to a Hindusthani concert.

hema wrote:
I like the experimentation that Sanjays, TMKs, ARs, R&GSs, AS (holy cow or no cow) do. They have the guts which our yesteryear musicians lacked.

It is not experimentation. It is snake oil and they are trying to see which sucker will fall for it.

hema wrote:
The musicians are experimenting with new ragas, new vaggeyakaras. When a new raga is presented -- immediately there will be a discussion about its raktiness! I am really getting tired of these words sowkhyam, rakthi, classicism, ... I personally think rakthi has to do with aesthetics. If a musician feels strongly about a raga and creates aesthetic phrases --that is rakthi -- maduvanthi exposition in SS's MA RTP -- I really, really enjoyed it -- the imagination of the artist to create such a beautiful long swaram needs to be admired. "Rakthi" is in the ears of the listener.

So, why don't you attend Jesudas's concert? At SPSS, he sang a raga called PriyaSri (Preyasi?), did a nice alapana and did long swarams in it. He sang several Tamil songs whose composers are not well known. He ended the concert with a set of Ayyappan songs, soaked in bhakthi. But why are you all running after people trying to find a niche in the crowded marketplace by singing Hindi pallavis for RTP, etc?

At least, Jesudas is not trying to create a following for himself nor is he singing film songs to increase his audience! But I don't see a single one of you admitting to listening to Jesudas!

hema wrote:
I feel we need openness in listening at the Annual Music Conference and Concerts. The musicians' have worked hard for a year to deliver for us something new. If they deliver the old fare or remixes -- I might as well stay home and listen to the old masters.

You should. You will gain a better appreciation for their works.

I listened to one concert of Semmangudi mama on tape and concluded that I wasted the last 10 years of my life attending concerts in Chennai!

hema wrote:
Most importantly I am worried that the halls are packed with the older generation, aspiring young musicians and NRIs -- I saw a couple's kids brings cards to the MA and play UNO. I would like the young audiences back only as listeners.

If abhang's and the cow can help bring the young audiences back -- so be it.

It brings them in for abhangs and the cow song only!

hema wrote:
Finally, nobody has commented on my donation to PSS -- I talked to a relative of a committee member. Apparently they have funds but are looking for a place in Mylapore to build the sabha. So can this forum help in this matter?

BTW, the promise that I made was 1/4 of my monthly salary at an Indian Univ. With similar pledges in your local currency )-- I am sure we can find the sabha a place.

You haven't got any idea about the price of land in Chennai nor of construction costs. Nor of egos. The owner(s) of Vidya Bharathi Kalyana Mantapam has to agree to accept the funds and build an auditorium. The donors have to agree that they have no rights to the building that they paid for. All of this has to be documented in a legally binding agreement.

Just look at the Rasika Ranjani Sabha and its empty shell of an auditorium. The land was owned by the sabha, there was a corrugated-roof cow-shed passing for an auditorium and many wonderful concerts were held there. They raised the funds to build a nice auditorium and half-way through the construction they ran out of funds. When some generous donor offered the funds for finishing the construction the money was accepted but now the non-building remains in the same half-constructed state for over 3 years. After holding one season of concerts in February at Gnanananda Hall (Narada Gana Sabha), Rasika Ranjani Sabha itself has seemingly become extinct.

Just remember: No good deed goes unpunished!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 03 Jan 2013, 10:53

harimau wrote: The more important question is: why? If you want to listen to Hindusthani ragas, go to a Hindusthani concert.

You are missing the point. It seems you like to put your music in neat little silos with nice little labels stuck on them. Others might want to see the musician do something creative and original with their knowledge of existing musical systems. They appreciate creativity and improvisation when presented within the somewhat arbitrary bounds of grammar of carnatic music.

It is not experimentation. It is snake oil and they are trying to see which sucker will fall for it.

You must enjoy being really strong to not fall for anything.

But I don't see a single one of you admitting to listening to Jesudas!

Jesudas is fine! He also experiments. Could do with a little less Ayyappan though. Would be great if he cuts down the sermons too! (although my mom loves them).

You should. You will gain a better appreciation for their works.

And you should open out your mind a little more when you get out.

hema wrote: If abhang's and the cow can help bring the young audiences back -- so be it.

harimau wrote: It brings them in for abhangs and the cow song only!

Differ from both of you. We don't need super crowds. The curious young audiences will come when they are ready to discover.

Just remember: No good deed goes unpunished!

I am sure there is more to the story.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Jan 2013, 11:36

Harimau, Harimau!
We love your humor and penmanship--
Your zeal for the kind of music we too share--

Yet, in guarding which--
You become
Hari maul

As for some of us--
Happy to be maDi sanchis
And backpackers rolled in one!

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 03 Jan 2013, 12:11

I listened to one concert of Semmangudi mama on tape and concluded that I wasted the last 10 years of my life attending concerts in Chennai!

Strange what a collected body of work can do . Like Statistics , one can pick the appropriate tool to prove ones own point .
Here is Mama trying his luck with HM. |(
http://www.mediafire.com/?xv5qmraampqmg8r

to HM IN CM

gs · Post by gs » 03 Jan 2013, 17:35

On rakthi - My Aunt who must have been 109 had she been living, told me this while we were listening to LGJ. "But for Mani Iyer we would not have Charukesi (in concerts) and but for G.Ramanathan, MMI would not have brought charukesi in". Is Charukesi, rakthi? Will nAgAnandhini and sucharitram become rakthi in the next 30 years? I believe so.

hema · Post by **hema** » 03 Jan 2013, 21:03

I think you are stuck in a time warp.

Semmangudi -- no I do not listen too much -- people will kill me on this forum but I have to say it -- his nasal voice is difficult on my ears.
I do not mind a remix of his work though!:-)

Music innovates by borrowing. Huseyni (according to malladi Bros) is supposed to have come from the middle east.
I like Hindustani ragas in the Carnatic format. By the same token I also like to listen to Hindustani musicians who experiment with
Carnatic ragas.

Jesudoss -- I used to like him when he was younger (almost 30 years ago). Yeah, perhaps I should listen to him now!

About sabhas -- the reason why I think we need a good sabha with good acoustics:

Ten years ago I could go to MA around 10am for popular artists and just before the concert for not so popular artists to get a ticket.
I could get a season ticket any time of the day.

For the last four years I have to be at the sabha at 4am to get a season tkt and barely manage a 2nd floor balcony tkt. Daily tkts -- at 6am there
is a long queue. I do not know where the crowd comes from -- I think they are either parents of NRI or NRI.

We need a sabha that competes with MA. This is precisely why I feel SPSS should be supported. Most concerts I have attended at SPSS have
never been flops. It is a reputed sabha and we need one with a large capacity.

NGS is similar.

Mylapore is convenient and easily reachable by public transport from most places.

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 03 Jan 2013, 22:04

Jesudoss -- I used to like him when he was younger (almost 30 years ago). Yeah, perhaps I should listen to him now!

Jesudoss -30 years ago
http://www.mediafire.com/?cupfmn7tadz1qgh

karaikurichi · Post by **karaikurichi** » 04 Jan 2013, 20:49

Agree with Hema on the fact that SPSS seems to bring out the best in many artists. The fact that they probably sweat it out more perhaps? Almost every artist I heard at this venue was soaking in sweat within a few minutes of being on stage. However, their line-up this year has been fantastic in the sense that they had many of the veterans in the prime slot at 4pm. Many people like me, who live in the same musical era as these veterans, could catch at least a few of these concerts. The Academy's 10am slot is pretty much an impossibility for me. Interestingly, the Vidya Bharati hall sucks big time and the acoustics, very basic at best, is quite decently managed. An old organisation like SPSS surely deserves to have a hall of their own?

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 04 Jan 2013, 21:34

SPSS hall has really BAD chairs and I developed back pain sitting on the flimsy chairs and I will not attend concerts there. Acoustics can be improved

However, Mountbatten Mani in the canteen is very tempting.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 04 Jan 2013, 22:27

Yes, Annamalai. Those chairs are pathetic. My husband says that while most sabha chairs are a pain to sit on, Partha's are the worst. He even declared that he would stop going (sitting) there--even his favorite musician's concert won't be reward enough.

Yet, it so happened that I sat through a number of concerts in that hall this year! The sabha held its concerts in TiruvallikkENi in the earlier days (naturally! Parthasarathy Swamy's locale), in an upstairs (?) hall of The Hindu High School. As a child, I remember listening to music there--even running around in the corridor

On the day Sanjay sang, it was hot and humid. Densely packed humans added more heat in there. Bright lights on stage added to the merriment of it all.

Still, the concert was a winner.

Every year, the obstacles multiply: halls, chairs, sound systems, the ordeal of buying tickets and TRAFFIC (cacm, I know what you mean by your caps

kunthalavarali · Post by **kunthalavarali** » 05 Jan 2013, 07:48

Above all, the most dreaded thing for me while inside SPSS is with regards to safety.Few exits and they leading to a narrow street. My god!!. The street is two way and cars parked on both sides. I shudder to think of any mishap with over 1000 people packed inside the hall. Other sabhas also have safety problem but none like SPSS. This alone merits a new large auditorium for this great sabha.

MV · Post by MV » 05 Jan 2013, 08:53

I have heard some great concerts @ SPSS. The idea of an upgraded hall sounds good. But if there is spare cash, I would like to see it go to musicians-specially some who are now old and 'not so popular' Maybe a fund to care for the whole fraternity so artistes at all levels continue to practice the art. There is so much hidden treasure in compositions and styles that can come out of the woodwork.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Jan 2013, 07:24

sureshvv wrote:
You are missing the point. It seems you like to put your music in neat little silos with nice little labels stuck on them. Others might want to see the musician do something creative and original with their knowledge of existing musical systems. They appreciate creativity and improvisation when presented within the somewhat arbitrary bounds of grammar of carnatic music.

I suppose you go to a bunch of Hindusthani music concerts and send in chits requesting Tiruppugazh, and ragas such as Yadukulakambhodi, Kharaharapriya, Rasikapriya or Saramathi and the singer obliges you.

Or is it that Hindusthani music's grammar is not at all arbitrary but given by God Himself so it is sacrosanct and is not to be violated?

As to silos, is that why in Hindusthani music you have all those frauds calling their raags Mishra-this, Mishra-that and Mishra-whatnot and when caught with their pants down for using the wrong note, they escape by saying "that is our gharana"?

sureshvv wrote:
You must enjoy being really strong to not fall for anything.

I can smell bullsh!t from miles away. You seem to have lost your sense of smell!

sureshvv wrote:
Jesudas is fine!.... Could do with a little less Ayyappan though. Would be great if he cuts down the sermons too! (although my mom loves them).

He sings Ayyappan songs from his heart. His audience sends in requests for them. He has transcended the religion of his birth and people can see that singing Harivarasanam is not a blatantly commercial act on his part. Can you say the same thing about The Cow Song?

sureshvv wrote:
And you should open out your mind a little more when you get out.

Really? Not having a clue about me, you make me this suggestion.

I make an effort to listen to a wide variety of musicians. For instance, I went to the concert by the Carnatic Rock band "Agam" during the Hindu Friday Review November Fest. I got to hear half of Guitar Prasanna's concert at Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan. I missed the Anil Srinivasan-Jayanthi Kumaresh combination because I didn't want to lose out on T N Seshagopalan's Academy concert though I did go to the Anil Srinivasan-GJR Krishnan lecture-concert. I went to Mandolin Srinivas' Academy concert. I stand in line and buy the CDs produced by All India Radio from their archives of all types of music. I got a friend to chase down close to 120 CDs (all Hindusthani music) produced by T-Series from AIR's New Delhi archives and buy them for me. I have heard Rajhesh Vaidhya and Revathy Krishna at one end of the spectrum and Smt Padmavathy Ananthagopalan at the other end. I attend instrumental concerts and so can say that Sanjay Subramanian's "tup-tup-tup" (what T M Krishna called "vocalization of instrumental techniques") is a pale imitation of a nagaswara viwan repeatedly opening and closing just one hole when he plays his instrument while you go ga-ga over that nonsense.

But I don't lose my bearings when I go to all these concerts. I don't claim that I am transported magically to another world and that somehow all their gimmicks are the wave of the future.

In short, I like garlic in spaghetti aglio e olio but not in badam halwa and most certainly not in my mango thokku.

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 06 Jan 2013, 07:55

hema wrote:
Ten years ago I could go to MA around 10am for popular artists and just before the concert for not so popular artists to get a ticket.
I could get a season ticket any time of the day.

For the last four years I have to be at the sabha at 4am to get a season tkt and barely manage a 2nd floor balcony tkt. Daily tkts -- at 6am there
is a long queue. I do not know where the crowd comes from -- I think they are either parents of NRI or NRI.

We need a sabha that competes with MA. This is precisely why I feel SPSS should be supported. Most concerts I have attended at SPSS have
never been flops. It is a reputed sabha and we need one with a large capacity.

NGS is similar.

Mylapore is convenient and easily reachable by public transport from most places.

Do you think you are going to be able to get tickets just because SPPS gets a larger auditorium?

You are not going to be able to get tickets for a simple reason: there are more members and season ticket holders in any sabha than there are seats in its auditorium.

Read that again: there are more members and season ticket holders in any sabha than there are seats in its auditorium.

For instance, Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan has nearly 6,000 members. And how many seats does its auditorium have? About 1,000? So, they have adopted the policy that all events will be free and on a first-come-first-served basis. Only the VIP row is reserved and that too is made available for the public around 7 pm.

The Music Academy has about 1,200 seats. I can assure you that they have more than that many season-ticket-holders, patrons and members combined. That is why when Sanjay/T M Krishna/Aruna Sayeeram sing at the Academy, even patrons are forced to sit in plastic chairs placed in aisles and against the walls. Same story at Narada Gana Sabha or Sri Krishna Gana Sabha.

But if people do not fall for gimmicky music, they would be thronging the auditoria for R Vedavalli, Neela Ramgopal, Pantula Rama, and the like. They would attend nagaswara concerts even if it is limited to one hour as mangala isai on opening day. But they don't.

Since you claim to know the office-bearers at SPSS, ask them how many members they have. Then figure out where you will get one acre or more of land in Mylapore (Narada Gana Sabha sits on slightly more than one acre and Music Academy on somewhat less than one acre).

As to prices, the T N Rajarathnam Auditorium in Raja Annamalaipuram on the banks of the Adyar river seats about 350 and cost Rs 5 crore ($1 million) to build 2 years back. And the land was leased from the State government at throw-away prices so that is just the construction cost. If you want a 1400-seat auditorium, that should set you back $4 million, not counting inflation. Land would go for Rs 3 crore a ground. With 18 grounds to an acre, you are looking at $10 million an acre, if you can find that much empty space. So, plan on raising $15 million or more. (Google Maps will show you where there are empty lots in Mylapore. Do your homework first before you start calling people to meetings!)

If you want to accommodate the crowd that comes for gimmicky artists, you should do what the Music Academy used to do for years before they built their auditorium: rent the playground of P S High School, put up a huge pandal, spread jamakkalams on the ground, and let the audience keep talam by swatting mosquitoes. But that was when Semmangudi mama, Mali, Chembai and the like used to be the musical fare. They could fill the grounds with that kind of music.

Clearly, seats or space is not the problem; musical tastes are.

srikant1987 · Post by **srikant1987** » 06 Jan 2013, 08:23

They would attend nagaswara concerts even if it is limited to one hour as mangala isai on opening day.

That is one of the main reasons I skip nAdaswara concerts. The overall experience becomes so bitter, the best music can't cure it adequately. Take Bharath's experience at BVB's "inaugural" programme in 2012 season, for example.

If you want to accommodate the crowd that comes for gimmicky artists, you should do what the Music Academy used to do for years before they built their auditorium: rent the playground of P S High School, put up a huge pandal, spread jamakkalams on the ground, and let the audience keep talam by swatting mosquitoes. But that was when Semmangudi mama, Mali, Chembai and the like used to be the musical fare. They could fill the grounds with that kind of music.

Clearly, seats or space is not the problem; musical tastes are.

The problem seems to be getting the right combination of space and music.

I wrote something about how music has changed over the years, but shared it only with very, very close friends. What you say here makes me want to share it with you too, but I don't know if I dare to; I certainly won't post it on this forum itself. I importantly need to know what the reader feels about it, so I'll send it to you by email only if you will tell me how you react to it, even if it only got your blood pressure high.

Rsachi · Post by **Rsachi** » 06 Jan 2013, 08:33

Harimau,
I love your flair and choice of flavours. Seriously. ( to prove it I am not adding the tiger smiley).

I find Priya (Ramoji Rao fame) without garlic and preservative the only truly believable brand of thokku.

On the lines you suggested, I have seen and walked away from MLA Dosa (upma wrapped in pesarattu), Gobi Manchurian Dosa, and Gadbud (a combination of coffee, tea, and coca cola in the same cup).

Harimau, in all your spiced-up simile and strychnine satire, there is a core value always worth pondering over.
I would only argue that some attempts at fusion, Carnasthani music and gimmickry can be condoned, yet someone like you has to point it out when things go a bit over the top.

Amen to Harimau.

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 06 Jan 2013, 12:00

My thoroughly modern lady
ANDAL--
Because of her guts and gushing poetry--
Or, because thirty rhymes meant
More than a clutch of 'approved' rAgAs??
Made Ari sing in hamIr kalyANi--

Excuse our modernity...
Lest we disturb the tranquility
Of the keepers of sanity
In halls of venerable music...

The grecian urn we can
Keep staring at, awed,
Transfixed, thrilled--
Until the guard uproots
And throws us out--
Closing time, patron!

What fools we backpackers are!
Adding more to our cache (mindlessly?)
When we also have the maDI sanchi
Safely tucked under our arms?
*
Nothing new here about newness...
New will survive as old in a distant day--
As history intimates, time and again...

Mind you--
We still carry our maDi sanchis...
With more room in our backpacks
For treasures to pick on our way

There was a time--
When itinerant artistes
Carried on trains pUjA things
Clothing, bedding, toiletries
All rolled up in one, bed bugs haven--
A hold all!

They took CM to the corners of the land,
Giving up their maDi and sanchi--
Open to new influences, no small thing--
Took to occasionally singing a sindhu bhairavi,
HamsAnandi, darbAri---Ari and all...
Trinity provided more, thanks to them!

sureshvv · Post by **sureshvv** » 06 Jan 2013, 12:39

harimau wrote: I suppose you go to a bunch of Hindusthani music concerts and send in chits requesting Tiruppugazh, and ragas such as Yadukulakambhodi, Kharaharapriya, Rasikapriya or Saramathi and the singer obliges you.

Once again you make assumptions having no basis in fact. I don't send in chits, Carnatic or Hindustani. And I don't throw fits when a Hindustani musician attempts Hamsadvani or Charukesi. Every system will evolve as its practitioners seem fit.

As to silos, is that why in Hindusthani music you have all those frauds calling their raags Mishra-this, Mishra-that and Mishra-whatnot and when caught with their pants down for using the wrong note, they escape by saying "that is our gharana"?

Hmm.. May be they are experimenting with the "wrong" note. And may be it sounded good to people not preoccupied with so much baggage.

I can smell bullsh!t from miles away. You seem to have lost your sense of smell!

It is actually emanating from right under your nose and you just need to have a brisk face wash

He sings Ayyappan songs from his heart. His audience sends in requests for them. He has transcended the religion of his birth and people can see that singing Harivarasanam is not a blatantly commercial act on his part. Can you say the same thing about The Cow Song?

For being a hardcore cynic of a critic, you are beginning to sound moonstruck now. His religion of birth is irrelevant. His paycheck will indicate the commercial nature of the endeavor. And the "Cow song" is not all that far away from this.

sureshvv wrote:
And you should open out your mind a little more when you get out.

Really? Not having a clue about me, you make me this suggestion.

<long bragging list deleted>

I know you get out. You have not said much about the "open mind" part.

I attend instrumental concerts and so can say that Sanjay Subramanian's "tup-tup-tup" (what T M Krishna called "vocalization of instrumental techniques") is a pale imitation of a nagaswara viwan repeatedly opening and closing just one hole when he plays his instrument while you go ga-ga over that nonsense.

Okay. Now you have done it. And the gloves are coming off.

If he actually held a nadaswaram it may not be imbecilic to call it a "pale imitation". But he doesn't. And the very fact that he has made you think of the "bright shiny original" is his success. And if you were not screwed on so tight, you would be going ga-ga too.

But I don't lose my bearings when I go to all these concerts. I don't claim that I am transported magically to another world and that somehow all their gimmicks are the wave of the future.

Let go of your bearings a little. And don't worry so much about the future.

Okay.. Here is a new year's kiss for you. Muaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 07 Jan 2013, 00:47

harimau wrote:I make an effort to listen to a wide variety of musicians. For instance, I went to the concert by the Carnatic Rock band "Agam" during the Hindu Friday Review November Fest. I got to hear half of Guitar Prasanna's concert at Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan. I missed the Anil Srinivasan-Jayanthi Kumaresh combination because I didn't want to lose out on T N Seshagopalan's Academy concert though I did go to the Anil Srinivasan-GJR Krishnan lecture-concert. I went to Mandolin Srinivas' Academy concert.

Harimau: Just curious, did you attend these for sociological research (http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... ciological) or to witness a crime against our culture? (http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... asan+crime).

Or do you just like to inflict a lot a lot of pain on yourself so you can regale us with your uber-intelligent posts?

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 07 Jan 2013, 01:39

The ghost reappears...
Fat ghost, big ghost?
Does it matter?
Apparitions all!

Desmond Morris hasn't wound up
His study of human apes, I think--

Come, give our man a break!
Harimau's still a sophomore
In his studies in sociology
In concert halls of Chennai--

So, what if he hears music
He desists (resists), pray tell?
Even if it means being part of
A mad and maddening crowd?
All in the name of study--
Let's not forget...

So, let's pack our backpacks,
Our maDi sanchis too, yes--
And go our way, our own way
To listen to music all the way

Mahavishnu,
Thanks for greeting me (in another thread?) but mind you, you put me on to penning the above