Sandeep Narayanan @ Vani Mahal, 23-3-'13

[sureshvv]

Accompanists:

S.Varadarajan
B. Ganapathiraman
B.S.Purushottam (k)

Sandeep gave an exhilarating performance with an all-tamil song list for this thematic concert which featured an elaborate Bhairavi (Aro ivar Aro) and Saveri (Muruga Muruga).

Particular props for singing Balasubramanya Padame Thunai, a composition of Tanjavur Sankara Iyer in Vishnupriya, with an extended alapana and a bountiful swaraprasthara.

[CRama]

I attended this concert. I heard him singing as AAro ivar aaro (very clearly) whereas so far I have heard as yaro ivar yaro. What could be the justification for this usage.

[sureshvv]

But he did say "Sondham" clearly

[rajeshnat]

I attended this concert. I heard him singing as AAro ivar aaro (very clearly) whereas so far I have heard as yaro ivar yaro. What could be the justification for this usage.

I have herad aarO ivar aarO in sAveri sung by Vedavalli and GG which is considered an original version.It is actually right only to sing as aarO ivar aarO. The second more popular version is yaarO ivar yaarO in bhairavi that was tuned by ARI.
This is sandeep's third version aarO ivar aarO in bhairavi

[CRama]

I have heard the original version in Saveri- sung by TNS and Sowmya. But it was yaro ivar yaro only.
As Suresh said, it is his Sondham version. Is it that Sanjay also sings like this?

[rshankar]

IIRC, the original by Sri aruNAcala kavi is 'ArO ivar ArO'...and ArO and yArO mean the same - and since 'y' is a much newer consonant in tamizh, it is possible that at the time this kRti was composed, ArO was in usage, and not yArO. Of course, Smt. DKP was the one who made the 'yArO' version very popular. But, I have heard Smt. Nityashree sing it as 'ArO'!

[sureshvv]

As Suresh said, it is his Sondham version.

To clarify, I actually did not say that! The lyric also includes the word "Thondham" being the archaic form of "Sondham". Sandeep chose the modern form. Not sure if he knows all this though

[arasi]

ArO seems to be the original word in the song. Through the years, YarO has also been used by some who sing it. The good thing is, the meaning does not change an iota! So, I'm not bothered.

About sondam and thondam, yes, they are interchangable too. However, if a song is archaic (as you put it), then the old-fashioned words go well with it, I feel.

As for Sandeep, he has come a long way with Tamizh, considering he's from North America--his singing an all tamizh concert is quite impressive.

[arunk]

Although it doesn't affect if it was originally composed as Aro (i think it is perhaps an informal form of yAr - or at the least both were/are in vogue), I do not think the argument is this was "old" form and ya is a "new" consonant, and that words starting with ya are newer. I would think words starting with ya - were quite common e.g. yAzh, yAm (me) etc. etc from long time ago. Besides we are talking about a composer whose time line is as recent (i.e. compared to history of literary tamizh) as early 18th century.

Arun

[sureshvv]

About sondam and thondam, yes, they are interchangable too. However, if a song is archaic (as you put it), then the old-fashioned words go well with it, I feel.

Not as easily decided for me. The meaning and import of the lyric is better conveyed with the current usage of words while the original form provides a certain authenticity. Also a nagging doubt (like CRama had) if the words are being mispronounced can interfere with the appreciation of the song.

[cmlover]

As per Nannool a Tamil word cannot start with 'ya'. YAro will be written iyaro just like yaman becomes iyaman .
AK sticks to old time grammar being a kavi though he uses a lot of colloquial words too! ArO is the correct word hence.

[mahesu]

Can anyone guess this was sung by who in praise of who (the two whos being Rama / Sita)

[Lakshman]

In this song Rama is commenting on Sita.

[arunk]

As per Nannool a Tamil word cannot start with 'ya'. YAro will be written iyaro just like yaman becomes iyaman .
AK sticks to old time grammar being a kavi though he uses a lot of colloquial words too! ArO is the correct word hence.

Possible I guess but it does not seem to add up. Unless I'm misreading every one of these, we have words starting with yakaram even in thirukkural e.g #4 (yANDum??), #20 (which has yAr as in yAryArkkum), #61 (yAmaRivadu), #66 (yAzh) etc. (I forget the # but there is one that starts with yA), that's about as old you can get. Now one could argue that perhaps originally they weren't so or they weren't written as so etc. but I think Occam's razor would point the other way

Arun

[arasi]

I feel comfortable with both. Yet, 'ArukkuthAn theriyum, avar mahimai' appeals more to me than 'yArukkuthAn theriyum'. A personal preference, I guess. That's all. Old or new usages, I don't know about.
In my songs, I realize, I've used both yAnai and Anai.

Again, 'ArenRu rAghavanai eNNinIr ammA" is something I haven't heard at all!

''yAdO adu AdO"?!




`

[rshankar]

Can anyone guess this was sung by who in praise of who (the two whos being Rama / Sita)

In this song Rama is commenting on Sita.

The confusion occurs because the first caraNam (which makes it very clear that a woman, i.e., sItA, is the object of this kRti) is not sung - the caraNams that are sung can be considered to be sex-agnostic.

[srikant1987]

I have also heard it as ArO from Smt Vasundhara Rajagopal. I've never heard it in sAvEri, unfortunately.

I think ArO is older, more accurate version -- but Arunachala Kavi is certainly much, much more recent than the letter 'ya' in Tamil! Also, I think certain kinds of combinations insert the 'y' between 'A'rO and the previous word, making it yArO. Indeed, ArO ivar yArO seems most sensible to me.

In Telugu, too, mA + amma becomes mAyamma, shiva + anna becomes shivayanna, etc.

Also En (why) in Tamil becomes yEn contextually.

[cmlover]

Arun
"ஆவோடல்லது யகரம் முதலாது" is from Tholkaappiyam. But it was not universally accepted even during old times.
PuRanAnOORu has the famous "யாதும் ஊரே யாவரும் கேளிர்".
Again there are hundreds of exceptions, யானை just for example.
But in my copy of AK it is ArO only!

[arunk]

Arun
"ஆவோடல்லது யகரம் முதலாது" is from Tholkaappiyam. But it was not universally accepted even during old times.!

cml - i think it means that the only words that can start with yakaram are those that start yA i.e. ya + A - or that without A following it (ஆவோடல்லது), ya (யகரம்) cannot start a word (முதலாது). Thus yAzh, yAm, yAvar, yAr etc. dont violate the rule.

Arun

[cmlover]

Thx. You are right Arun!

[srikant1987]

யானை is often spelt ஆனை so doesn't really count anyway.

But if you insist on an ஆ and don't even accept அ, யகரம் itself is an exception.

[anandasangeetham]

I have not listened to the Saveri Y(a)aro ivar Y(a)aro. can some rasika friend upload one ? thanks.