Use of silence intervals?

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:16

Endaro mahaanubhaavulu andariki vandanamulu

Ever since I have been interested in rhythm (which is a lot earlier than when I actually started learning mridangam) I have had a question that perhaps can be asked here and that is: are there experts who systematically use silence intervals in korvais?

By this I dont mean the silence that comes from waiting towards the end of an avarthanam waiting for the eduppu but the use of a silence interval as a valid part of the pattern. So for example, it is common to take a regular 444 pattern and redo it as 345 but usually this is done using voiced/played sounds. Now how about creating similar patterns wherein intervening units are silences. FOr example, one can play a sarvalaghu pattern of length 4 units represented by L here in the larger pattern "L 6 L 8 L 10" where 6, 8, and 10 refer to silence intervals of those lengths (relative to L). The relative length of the silences makes them the dominant feature of the pattern rather than the L.

The one artist whom I have heard long silences is Kanjira Harishankar, who used silence gaps to such an extent in his thani in a concert I once attended in Bombay as to cause the vocalist to lose his thalam entirely and the mridangist to shake his head decisively at the wrong moment! Everyone laughed and got over the vocalist's error but I was just spellbound by the laya control. Any Harishankar students here who can share experiences of his use of silences?

Sometimes it feels that we focus more on the sounds but not so much on the silences. I am sure other vidwans like PMI have used silence gaps in passing and I have simply failed to notice them.

What about vocalists using silence gaps? MDR used to be silent for long periods within kriti renderings but I saw them as off-the-cuff "leaving" rather than a structured silence interval in the middle of an otherwise busy avarthanam.

I imagine a kriti wherein (by design) all the performers, vocalist and accompanists are completely silent for a measured amount of time inside a line of the kriti (in other words, using silence as a melodic statement in addition to rhythmic). But my musical abilities are too weak to take this further.

Would the use of sustained silence intervals be sustainable? How would it affect the momentum of a piece? Maybe vocalists will not approve because of discomfort with the disappearance of an audible beat? What about the (sometimes harsh) clapping of talam that would intrude on the silence interval?

Your thoughts appreciated.

-thenpaanan

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:23

Very interesting topic. I dont think singers can do justice to silence intervals (does this mean not putting the tala and calculating it in the mind?). What does it mean wrt vocalists?

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:28

I've seen Srimushnan Raja Rao sing, leaving long, long intervals and just giving Thom! in the pattern (I think it was a thillana -- or maybe kalpana swara: it was after many hours of music, I'm not sure. It was teasing to the mridangist, who also had to remain silent! He played every stroke right!

This was at a function at Raja Rao's own house, though, not a usual concert.

As to clapping of thalam, this often intrudes! especially if done on-stage near a microphone. Even a Korvais can have its musicality destroyed by "filling in" the beats.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:34

If 'virAma' (pause) is introduced as one more 'a^Nga' of the tALa structure, we need to revamp the whole calculation of the 35 basic tALas depending on where and how it is introduced! Very interesting idea and it should be xplored by laya experts!

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:35

srkris wrote:Very interesting topic. I dont think singers can do justice to silence intervals (does this mean not putting the tala and calculating it in the mind?). What does it mean wrt vocalists?

Indeed, it would mean that either that the vocalist put tala in his/her mind or put it silently (i.e. without hitting audibly). They say, the days of yore vocalists would sometimes not reveal the thalam or put thalam under a towel/angavastram just to keep the mridangam player guessing. In the case of a competition, they would want to keep the competitor from learning the talam of the pallavi which the competitor would have to set his own pallavi to.

-thenpaanan

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:49

But how will it be possible for the singer to make a difference between ordinarily counting the tala silently (without using pause as an anga, as CML put it so vividly), and pausing deliberately to account for the tALa anga?

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 14 Sep 2006, 00:56

nick H (UK) wrote:I've seen Srimushnan Raja Rao sing, leaving long, long intervals and just giving Thom! in the pattern (I think it was a thillana -- or maybe kalpana swara: it was after many hours of music, I'm not sure. It was teasing to the mridangist, who also had to remain silent! He played every stroke right!

That would have been fantastic! I can also imagine Sri Raja Rao taking extreme keezhkaalam (lower speed) so that you will get only one thom or dhIm or whatever per cycle! I suspect you also need a patient/sophisticated audience that does not get antsy.

nick H (UK) wrote:As to clapping of thalam, this often intrudes! especially if done on-stage near a microphone. Even a Korvais can have its musicality destroyed by "filling in" the beats.

I remember the concerts in the cavernous Shanmukhananda Hall when the clapping both onstage and offstage would reverberate causing a double-clap sound like a "ka-tap" to be heard. Also because of the silence in the completely enclosed auditorium one could hear the first rows of the audience also actively participating in the thani.

-thenpaanan

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 15 Sep 2006, 23:21

thenpaanan wrote:That would have been fantastic! I can also imagine Sri Raja Rao taking extreme keezhkaalam (lower speed) so that you will get only one thom or dhIm or whatever per cycle! I suspect you also need a patient/sophisticated audience that does not get antsy.

It was fantastic. It was, in fact, a fantastic night for me, having been taken along by a friend of mine, one of Sri Raja Rao's students (in mridangam, and accomplished violinist himself). It was a puja attended by many great musicians, many of whom played or sang ---and I got to play morsing for some time.

sr_iyer · Post by **sr_iyer** » 18 Sep 2006, 20:13

Sri LGJ's musical depiction of uralil kaTTi vAi pothi comes to mind. The first introduction of this is punctuated by what seems a calculated pause by the performers, to depict vAi pothi. (The subsequent sangatis depict the pleading in kenjavaittAi e.g the sangati with both nishAda-s and the s'uddha dhaivata.)

ajsriram · Post by **ajsriram** » 11 Oct 2006, 23:03

hi:
It was in 1994-1995-1996 Mani sir Played the Korvais / Aruthis / Mohra with Silence being the predominant one.

If I am correct, he has played almost 4 different korvais / Mohras in the same format for the concerts

One such Example with Silence Aruthi: (Aadi Talam - Oru kalai - Start After 3 Mathrais/ticks)

Tha tha ka thi na (5) - ---- 9 Gaps
Tha ka thi na (4) - ---- 9 Gaps
tha Ki ta (3) - ---- 9 Gaps
thi na (2) - ---- 9 Gaps
Tha (1) - ---- 9 Gaps
Tham (Samam)

The calculation works like this :

5 + 9 = 14
4 + 9 = 13
3 + 9 = 12
2 + 9 = 11
1 + 9 = 10
1 - On the dot

I dont know how many of you followed it, I am ready to explain if its not clear.

Regards
Sriram j. Iyer

thenpaanan · Post by **thenpaanan** » 12 Oct 2006, 10:23

ajsriram wrote:Tha tha ka thi na (5) - ---- 9 Gaps
Tha ka thi na (4) - ---- 9 Gaps
tha Ki ta (3) - ---- 9 Gaps
thi na (2) - ---- 9 Gaps
Tha (1) - ---- 9 Gaps
Tham (Samam)

Regards
Sriram j. Iyer

Dear Sri Sriram

Ah! This is most excellent. This is a good example of what I was talking about. What seems to make the silence interval the predominant component here is that it is the longest part of the phrase and of fixed length. Another way to make silence the dominant component would be to have kuRaippu (incremental reduction) on the silence gaps (which in some extended sense would be the mirror image of the above) but with the silence occuring on the samam or arudhi as you have said! Of course this will take some ear training as well because we are so accustomed to waiting for the sounded beats and ignore the interstices and we almost surely expect a sounded beat on the eDuppu. Do you recall what the response was from the other musicians on stage and the audience? Also you mention that Sri Mani Iyer did this in several ways. Do you remember the other patterns?

One question that boggles my mind is how to make other korvais like the example above which cannot easily be confused, i.e. it is very clear to the listener that the intention is to use the silence gaps as the main structural element rather than the other way around. Maybe Nick has thought about this....

Thanks for posting. I had given up on this thread.

-thenpaanan

ajsriram · Post by **ajsriram** » 12 Oct 2006, 12:06

huh! listened many a times in concerts ! and too many many a times @ mani sirs house (blessed to be a student of mani sir from 1990)!

Here goes another Example : Now a korvai : Thisra nadai - Eduppu Samam, For any Arai Edam
Eduppu song :

(15) is the gap here

15 Tha thi tha thi kita thom (9)
15 Tha thi tha thi kita thom Tha thi tha thi kita thom (18)
15 Tha thi tha thi kita thom Tha thi tha thi kita thom Tha thi tha thi kita thom (27)

(9) is the gap here

9 Tha thom thathi kita thom Tha thom thathi kita thom Tha thom thathi kita thom (24)
9 Tha thee kita thom Tha thee kita thom Tha thee kita thom (21)

if YOU play the above korvai it comes to 27 Aksharams, if played 3times its 81 aksharams
which is 15 Aksharams for a full cycle of 96.

If it is 81 aksharams, it comes 1 Aksharam more than the samam, so that we can play for all songs
that are starting on the Arai Edam Eduppu.

Regards
Sriram J. Iyer

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 13 Oct 2006, 08:35

Dear members, Shri thenpaanan & Shri ajsriram,, Extremely glad to have gone through your kanakku in the thread ‘use of silence intervals’. In Andhra there is one ‘Mullapudi School of Mridangam’ an excellent school of its kind I have ever seen. Lessening the mathematical implications of muktayis is the unique feature of this School. Late Mullapudi Lakshamana Rao was the first person who brought out this school of thought and presently his son ‘Mullapudi Shrirama Murthy’, most unassuming Master of Mridangam of Top-grade, having worked as Staff Artist Mridangam in All India radio, Vishakhapatnam and recently retired from service, keeps that tradition in tact. One must listen to his Mridangam and talk about such ‘silenced intervals’. Basically being a Mridangist in my younger age and later as a professional Top-grade Violinist and also as a professional teacher I have been benefited a lot by this School. I have found umpteen short cuts of kanakku in this School. Having been invited by my friend TRS, the great, I have demonstrated some of these varieties in Shastri-hall at Chennai in 2004 season which was attended by our member friend, Mr.Coolkarni, who had recently reminded me of this incident through his post No.9 of ‘Easy methods in teaching Svarakalpana and Ragalapana of General discussions.
To make all these muktayis easier to understand, follow and exhibit I have formulated some symbols and, in my book, Sangita Svararaga Sudha (Telugu/English) I have furnished a number of these symbolized muktayis with different kinds of silenced gaps to each of the six popular Talas, Rupaka, Trisra-rupaka, Chapu, Adi (-medium-tempo), Adi (slow-tempo) and Adi (trisra-gati). I have experimented upon a number of students to quicken the process of learning of Svarakalpana and succeeded through teaching them these symbolized muktayis only.
For example, to render a muktayi in Adi-tala of medium-tempo (running 32-units per Avarta), you can render any jati of any Jaati i.e., ta-ki-ta of 3-units (Trisra-jaati) or ki-ta-ta-ka of 4-units (Chaturashra-jaati) or ta-dhi-g-na-ta of 5-units (Khanda-jaati) or ta-dhee-gi-na-ta of 6-units (Divya-sankeerna-jaati) or taa-dhee-gi-na-ta of 7-units (Mishra-jaati) or ta-dhee-ta-dhi-gi-na-ta of 8-units (Mishra-sankeerna-jaati) or taa-dhee-ta-dhi-gi-na-ta of 9-units (Sankeerna-jaati) or taaa-dhee-ta-dhi-gi-na-ta of 10-units (Deshya-sankeerna-jaati) or taa-dhee-taaa-ta-dhi-gi-na-ta of 12-units (Mishra-deshya-sankeerna-jaati) or taaa-dheee-taaa-dhee-ta-dhi-gi-na-ta of 16-units (Deshya-shuddha-sankeerna-jaati) or of any number of units of your choice, each unit of the jaati with a gradually decreasing silenced gap starting from 7-units to 1-unit and ending with a Trisra-gati muktayi of the same jaati, always arriving at a total of 32 jatis. Hope you can understand and follow. Please try. amsharma.