TMK and his multiple alaaps in a concert

[hema]

Here is something that comes from a different context:

We are trying to archive typical phrases of ragas in a machine learning framework. We use kritis sung with only the drone, or alaaps. While alaaps are available in plenty for the popular big 6, we realised that we should perhaps look at viruttams and slokams for the not so popular ragas.

In this context, I was just thinking -- for a person who cannot appreciate the language of the slokam
or viruttams -- these must sound like alaaps. And we have heard any number of musicians sing a viruttam in
multiple ragas and then take up a song, whose raga can be different from the ragas of the viruttam or slokam.
For a listener who does not know Tamil -- given the number of unvoiced geminates and consonant endings,
it might even feel hard on the ears.

Given this, I wonder whether we are making a big fuss (or rather being unnecessarily harsh) when TMK sings a number beautiful alaaps that are not followed by a kriti in the raga of the alaap?

[cmlover]

Call it Alaap mAlika!

[ganeshkant]

I don't know the no.of adversaries.They must be a handful.I see a large no. of supporters here for TMK many of them silent.

[nri]

for a person who cannot appreciate the language of the slokam
or viruttams -- these must sound like alaaps

Yes it is, for a machine. For humans - slokams, viruttams, abhangs are divine and there is no need to know even the name of language!
What exactly is English note of HMB? A stand-alone Kalpana swaram in Shankarabharanam, that is notated and passed on? May I say so?

[vasanthakokilam]

>These must sound like alaaps.

Hema, you do bring up a good point, though the aspect about some one not knowing Tamil might think it is an alapana may be a stretch to make that point. I listen to all sorts of Sanskrit slokas without knowing its meaning and it has a totally different effect on me than just an alapana ( The almost mystical experience of listening to MSS's dhyana sloka at the beginning of her concerts is an example ).

But I think the violin reply for most viruththams and slokas make your point much more convincingly. To be exact, there is a bit more rhythmic regularity (laya) with viruththams when compared to alapanas but it is usually small that it is not easy to detect in violin replies.

As I opined elsewhere, people will get used to TMK doing this if he persists with it and it would sound as normal as a ragamalika viruththam or a ragamalika thanam.

In its current form it does sound odd to me and a bit unsettling due to the built in expectations. TMK has to employ his enormous creative potential to do something more than just a stand alone alapana. He has to figure out a way to artistically bridge it to what follows in a fashion that rasikas can relate to in a directly experiential and aesthetic manner ( and not in any theoretical way as to how those two ragas are related by swaras or melakartha numbers etc. ). It is not easy and that is the challenge he has undertaken for himself. I do not think he is there yet. I wish him all the best.

( as an example of 'directly experiential and aesthetic manner', I can think of one in a related context but with respect to lyrics. Take a song like Eppo Varuvaro or IduthanO thillai sthalam etc. One can setup a raga malika viruttham whose lyrical subject matter is related to the song that is coming and the last raga in the virtuththam is same as the song. But the last line of the virththam is joined nicely with the start of the song which creates quite an exhilarating effect on the audience without having to explain anything to them. That aesthetic feeling is auto-discoverable without any explicit documentation or explanation. The immediate example that comes to my mind is Ranjani and Gayathri's commercial recording where such a 'portuththam' for eppo varuvaro is employed which is just too good. I have to give it to them and to the virtuththam composer which I assume is their dad. Given Sanjay's experitse in viruththam, I have a feeling there are examples from his repertoire as well though I can not recall one now. )

[vasanthakokilam]

>We are trying to archive typical phrases of ragas in a machine learning framework. We use kritis sung
>with only the drone, or alaaps.

I am curious to know more about your methodology, classifiers and tools used and the results. Once you have something to report, please do so in a thread in the Technical Section. I vaguely recall someone else writing in this forum about doing such a thing for a school project.

[Rsachi]

There is a fundamental difference between the way viruttam or shloka lines are sung and the violin phrases in response. The vocalist accentuates the words and their emotive context. The violinist on the other hand just plays the raga phrases in a short essay, of course preserving the general mood of the viruttam. The two are effectively musically different to my mind- If one could find a way for converting the sung lines into "instrumental" sounds, one would easily notice the musical differences.

Here is a ready example from the one and only KVN: http://bit.ly/11yYp8D

[Rsachi]

Rather pleased someone copied my translation into the Sangeethapriya site!
"Oh Rama, Shiva knows the sweetness of your name. Ahalya, the wife of sage Gautama, knows the resurrective power of your feet's touch. The divine bow (it could well be Shiva's bow or also Vishnu's bow- Parashurama gave it to Rama) knows the valour of your powerful arms. And the ocean well knows the infallible power of your sharp and forceful arrow".

[mahavishnu]

Hema, interesting question. I am also more interested in the technical aspect of your work. I am also curious about the machine learning methods you use. I was thinking some kind of Kohonen-net/SOM map would be useful if you are trying to capture something varying across so many dimensions. Like VK suggested, please start a thread in the technical section and I would love to chat more about it there.

That said, I think viruttams and alapanais have completely different effects on the listener. While the raga development technique might be similar in each, the emotional impact is not the same at all. Some say that viruttam singing is an interesting way to introduce a beginner to learning the craft of painting a raga's portrait.

I have no problems with TMK's experiments. However, I personally find it very hard to get used to him singing Chinna nadena in kalanidhi after a detailed varali alapanai like he did at the last academy concert. The brain has a certain refractory period and expectation structure. Changing the mood and setting quite abruptly leaves the system feeling a bit disordered. This is very different from the pleasant surprise effect that one gets when a new raga gets initiated in a ragamalika viruttam.

[arasi]

An AlApamAlikA (CML's coinage) makes a mere rasikA like me (not an expert) think only of a NM concert where lyrics are minimal and a few rAgAs get a lengthy treatment. I know what I'm in for when I go to one--and I appreciate what I hear there.

Mahavishnu,
Your (the expert's) line: the brain has a certain refractory period and expectation structure...is that what it is?

Yes, in a rAgmAlikA pallavi, after the long treatment of a rAgA, the breezy change of rAgAs come as pleasant after-dinner sweet surprises.

Listening to an emotive rAgA like varALi and then being deprived of listening to a marakatha maNi varNA or a kA vA vA would disappoint me--like a child waiting for its turn to play and then the game comes to an abrupt end.

[mohan]

Viruttams are usually of the format viruttam in raga A, then in raga B, C etc then a kriti in the final raga.
What TMK is doing is alapana in Raga A followed by a kriti in some other raga. As Vasantakokilam says, if he continues doing this we will get used to it. However, at the moment I think audiences are conditioned to expect a kriti in the same raga to come after an exansive alapana.

To me, presenting a major kriti with an alapana, neraval and kalpana swaram provides grandeur and completeness for the item.

[sirsub11]

During the 2007 December season at Nada Inbam, Sanjay essayed an RTP in Sankarabharanam. Only, instead of the conventional alaapana, he sang an extended viruttham (vizhikki tunai thirumenmalar paadhangal, or words to that effect), followed by a traditional tanam, concluding with a Thiruppugazh verse (kadhi modhi), with all the permutations you would want in a pallavi. One may wish to call this a kind of innovation, but the audience had no time to ponder on such inane technicalities. They were transfixed by the brilliance of the viruttham seguing into the tanam flowing into the pallavi. Whenever I wish to hear Sankarabharanam in all its glory, I keep going back to this particular masterpiece of Sanjay's.

I wish to add as a footnote that though I speak Tamil, I did not fully comprehend all the words in the abovementioned viruttham. It mattered not a whit, because I was totally carried away by the beauty of the raga and the singer's complete control and conviction.

[cmlover]

Let us not put down raga in favour of the lyrics. The lyrics by themselves are lifeless and trite.
It is the Raga which is the essence of CM that breathes life into lyrics/taanam/neravel etc.,While the raga
reigns supreme during the viruttam the mind still wanders at the meaning, but in a pure raga (or alaapamaalika)
the mind remains focussed on the raga steady so we can enjoy fully the beauty (melody) of CM without even worrying about
the laya!
It is Universal cutting across the linguistic barriers!

[arasi]

CML,
I do not agree. Please don't think that I say it because I compose songs and write.
Well, you write prose, you write poetry, and what are they but words?

Words are the carrier of meanings, nuances and feeling. They are mighty powerful in music. Even those who cannot fully understand the meaning of a song in their own language, and those who aren't even familiar with the language 'are' moved by emotive words. Otherwise, how is it that a non-tamizh can appreciate an eppO varuvArO equally? If the singer invests the feeling too in the song, language barriers just melt away.

Why are we moved by a TyAgaraja song even if we know very little Telugu? By a Purandara DAsA kruti?

Why would our Sahitya section be as popular and busy as it is? My answer is that those who speak the language and those who don't understand the song have been affected by the lyrics and want to know the subtler meaning of the words to enjoy it more.

Why is it that most of us choose to go to more vocal concerts than to instrumental concerts even if the vidvAns and vidUshis who play the instruments are exceptional?
How long do rasikAs listen to instrumental concerts in a row when they listen at home?

Words (lyrics ) do matter. The way they make an impact is well illustrated by some vocalists because they mesh their own feelings for the song as they sing, and yes, rAgA and rhythm adding to the beauty of the song.

Take listeners who go only to the most popular vocalists' concerts. Rarely would you find people there who say they want to hear a particular rAgA. It's always: mADu mEikkum kaNNA nI pOga vENDAm, vishamakkArak kaNNan, chinnanjiru kiLiyE, enna kavi pADinAlum and so on...

Sirsub says this about the virutham he heard: the singer's complete control and conviction.Yes, that's what matters (especially with virutham singing). It is expertise in his/her art and an understanding of the words and the ability to convey them effectively with the help of the rAgA bhAvA and the inner rhythm that sets one apart.

[Rsachi]

Arasi, well said. I want to also share some thoughts triggered by this thread.

First of all TMK intones lyrics extremely well, especially songs with a slow tempo, packed with devotional meaning. In fact when I was looking for Shyama Shastri krithis in Sangeethapriya etc., I was looking for TMK's versions.

Now coming to viruttam, the more I think about it, the more I think it has a unique place in CM. I find no parallel in fact.

The singer chooses the shloka or lines of emotive content with specific contextual impact. The viruttam generally comes when the mood has been softened by a good build up of the concert. By his or her choice of lyric for viruttam, the singer in fact makes a statement.

The ragas have to be chosen to heighten the appeal of the lyric. At the same time the singer has freedom, without tala cycle constraints, to elongate and stress words and paint musical curves and contours to his or her best ability. The voice also matters here...not too loud or indistinct.

The mood thus created of words and then the layered-over music is taken up by the violinist who provides a kind of after-glow to the musical mood. Viruttam therefore achieves several things at the same time... Lyrical bhava build up, creative delineation of ragas in a cycle of moods, and the after-glow provided by the accompanist.

I am very fond of well-rendered viruttams.

[cmlover]

I am not denying what you are saying.
But the language is still a barrier. Again many artistes sing when they do not know the language
with "Bhava' which is pathetic (many old veterans too!).
When I listen to a raga melody in Flute or Violin my heart melts but once they start
a kritis mind races to identify it and hence I get distracted from the raga bliss!

[arasi]

A number of artistes, when they 'do' know the language, "sing with bhAvA which is pathetic" as you say, or with no trace of bhAvA at all! True too that sometimes, a 'sweet' voice, or the bhAvam flowing forth from the rAgam and tune, can fool us into thinking that the singing is bhAvam-filled. Listen on, and we may find out that the ensuing pieces do not stir us. We have a sweet voice and the pleasant presence of a vidUshi on stage and yet, it all stops there--the music doesn't reach and touch us.

Any music, anywhere in the world, has to communicate to us, stir us. I do feel that good lyrics supply a lot of power to a seasoned artiste for him/her to take them one step further by making them his/her own--by which I mean, intelligently and feelingly making an exposition of them in his or her own unique way to make an impression.

Going back to the ones who came before, MSS, MMI and KVN are shining examples of this. I don't say SSI because, pitAmahA that he certainly is, his singing does not always touch my heart. Impressed, yes, shed a tear by being moved--no.

A concert grows as it goes on. Dependent on the mood, the singer grows with it, finding a pattern as he cruises along, using his skills and imagination. There, you have a concert with continuity (by which I mean the artiste is one with it now, and finds a natural momentum to make things happen).

A particular moment of whim to do something new as what Sanjay did with that SankarAbharaNam was all part of the flow of the concert I guess, if it made such an effect on the audience. A flight of imagination governed by the invisible reins of control, with a sense of timing, proportion and the need he must have felt to give the audience an equivalent of an RTP in stature, must have been the reasons for Sanjay to sing so that evening.

How I wish I could hear that part of his concert now!

[hema]

There are way too many posts to reply to. The point that I wished to make --- may be we as an audience are rather conservative. About lyrics -- I donot enjoy Tyagaraja's lyrics. Historically Rama was not even an important personality (bashyam). I enjoy Dikshitar lyrics a lot more -- more science in the design. While I really enjoy Tyagaraja's composition--- the first line of the song gives away the typical phrase of the raga.

And I must point out --- Tamil does sound very harsh on the ears of a person who does not understand -- this is the point. Btw, not everyone who sings a viruttam sings a kriti in the last raga.

[vasanthakokilam]

>given the number of unvoiced geminates and consonant endings, it might even feel hard on the ears

>Tamil does sound very harsh on the ears of a person who does not understand -- this is the point.


I have heard such notions as well and I would like to know the degree of truth in such statements in relation to the CM compositions.
I would think it is certainly possible to compose a CM composition in Tamil that uses a lot of vowel endings. Just recollecting some Tamil compositions in my mind,
they seem to employ such principles and with out many harsh consonant endings.

[hema]

Being a tamilian, I do not have difficulty. I have students, friends ---- Kannada, Telugu who find this difficult. They have pointed out the ttra, zhas, ttas, ddas ( unvoiced)

They have no issues to listening to pure alaaps of TMK. I think as CML said, one can perhaps focus better on the aesthetics
Of a raga.

A Connoisseur can appreciate different aspects. -- this was the only purport of my starting this thread.


Also, I must make a distinction between slokas and viruttam. Slokas have a definite metre. although viruttams also have a metre, they are much more flexible, similar to an Alaap.

[Ponbhairavi]

I guess slokams are in sanscrit and viruthams generally in tamil .I wonder whether there are slokams and viruthams composed in telegu and which are sung before sri Thyagaraja krithis .
I am asking the following questions to myself: has any Carnatic composer composed a slokam or virutham to his own composition? when did this practice of singing slokam started ?All the ashtapathis(jeyadevar-12th century) have a slokam composed by jeyadevar himself which precede the singing of ashtapathis. Were carnatic concerts took inspiration from the bajanai sampradayam in this aspect?.In harikatha expositions also Dhyana slokam invariably precedes to conjure up the mood and concentration of the performer as well as the audience.In bharathanatyam recitals slokam and viruthams play a very important role in imparting the necessary bhava.

[Rsachi]

Purandara Dasa's suLAdIs and ugAbhOgas are two/four liner poems and have been sung as prefaces to his songs or other songs with similar bhava.
I think KVN has sung some Malayalam ST free verse/prose lines as prefaces to ST songs.

[Rsachi]

Much has already been said and explored on the topic of viruttams here!
http://www.rasikas.org/forums/viewtopic. ... =Uga+bhoga