New look of MA - SK awards

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 29 Jul 2013, 22:11

Mahavishnu has brought out very valid points..
I do have highest regard for Sudha Ragunathan and her music..
Vishnu could have avoided about her personal trade marks!

Shri Murali’s statement that the award to her represents the transition from musicians from yesteryears to the next generation,”

If it is the case nobody suits the slot better than Chitra vina RaviKiran..( read it with the reasoning putforth for Aruna Sairam)

Academy's Sangeetha Kalanidhi Award has been always like Oscar Awards….if not Noble one..
Artists with merit also get awarded out of turn..once in a way!
Sangeetha Kalanidhi award seems to be not always related to artistic skills…
MD Ramanathan was not awarded the sangeetha Kalanidhi when he was alive
BalaMurali Krishna was awarded that at a very young age…so as SSI..
Whatever way you look at it, it defies logic..
There has to be transparency in the selection process…
Voting process may by introduced among members of the Acadamy in which non members among musicians can take part ..voting after screening interview by eminent musicians …
In this process personal likes and dislikes can get eliminated..
Even in our poll.only around 30 members participated among 7000+ members..
As such It may be necessary to think about poll being representative for larger number of voters..

Wishing the new SK the best wishes to carry on the mission!

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 29 Jul 2013, 22:17

arasi wrote:skris,
About the two awards I suggested: If you think it's superfluous, considering that there are other no-fuss, rasikA-based ones like the sangeethapriya award (Pattamma also brought it to my attention), then my suggestion serves no purpose, I see now.

Arasi, no it's not that. What will be the difference (as compared to all the existing awards) if we have our own awards? Will we award to deserving non-Sangeetha Kalanidhis only, or else what is the criteria we should use? I don't yet see the rationale behind the proposed award. Is it to correct the apparent wrongs in the SK selection process? We will need a lot of clarity through detailed discussions before we embark on this exercise. I am not ruling it out at this stage but I have myself not thought it out. Others can also opine.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 29 Jul 2013, 22:39

Good suggestion srkris
AFAIK there is no award for CM selected really by the CM Rasikas.
The sangitapriya award does not fit the bill since it is selected by a commitee where issues other than
CM are taken into consideration. For example the award is made to those who serve best the CM Rasikas.
We need an award which is Rasika based, based on their knowledge and appreciation of CM.
As the largest International group of CM Rasikas we are eminently qualified to recognize the best among CM
and honour them periodically.
We can solicit opinion from our vast membership as to how such an award may be strctured and the relevant criteria.

Let us hear from our members..

vasanthakokilam · Post by **vasanthakokilam** » 29 Jul 2013, 23:58

We can look at the mechanics of the People's choice awards: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Choice_Awards

"..Throughout the 20th century, the awards were based upon results from Gallup polls. Each year, Gallup took a survey of different categories for favorite actor, actress, movie, artist, television program or group. The scope was unlimited—the public could choose whomever or whatever it liked. The results of the annual survey were announced in the form of the People's Choice Awards.
Since polls have margins of error, many years' awards have had ties in at least one category, when Gallup declared that the voting was so close that a single winner could not be chosen. For instance, in 2003, both Spider-Man and The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring were recognized as Favorite Motion Picture."

Then there is some material about 'Switch to online voting' which may be more appropriate for what we are talking about. Or a combination of both.

These methodologies may not directly translate to CM, so people will have to tweak it and also learn by trial and error.

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 30 Jul 2013, 07:52

thanjavooran wrote:
* I also want to know details of her disciples who are performing.
* Curious to know if she can play any instrument besides being a vocalist.?
* She can use her celebrity status for furthering her mission of organising benefit program for the underprivileged.
* Any compositions /added chiitai swaram for any kriti? published any books/research papers in India /Abroad.?
* Any jugalbandi done by her ?

AFAMK goes ' NO ' is the answer. Let us hope that the above items will be taken care .

- Sangeetha Swaminathan is a prime disciple of Sudha Ragunathan
- Sudha raised a lot of funds for various causes like Kargil victims, Cancer centres - through her organisation Samudhaaya
- She has sung several jugalbandhis with Hindustani musicians as well as musicians of other genres
- she has sung many complex pallavis - for example a pancha nadai pallavi at the Music Academy in the early 1990s

annamalai · Post by **annamalai** » 30 Jul 2013, 08:13

As a huge GN fan, I am not sure Sudha Raghunathan is a true representative of GN school.

First, GN's approach to ragas, the kalapramanam - esp. the big ragas - thodi, kalyani or even rakthi ragas - Yadhukulakamboji or the polish of krithi rendition.
When one listens to SKR or MLV (to a slightly lesser extent), one can easily discern the GN "plan" in the approach to the ragas.
GN concerts (from photos) and MLV concerts will be full of disciples providing vocal support and thus providing concert exposure.

In my view, Sudha's music is focussed more on pleasing the rasikas (as many composers as possible, I never understood this funda) instead of focusing on raga alapana, kalpana swara virtuosity. Everyone wants to be the successor of MS mantle

I have heard that MLV was a great human being and she developed / supported many younger musicians - A. Kanyakurmari, G. Harishankar, Tiruvarur Bakthavatsalam ...

Among the musicians of today, Sanjay Subramanian has caught on to the GN touch esp. the Kamboji phrasings along the lines of Enai Marandhu ... Another musician who has imbibed the raga portrayal of the GN plan is Sangeetha Sivakumar, but she does not get much press.

Anyhow, SK is also given to the popular concert performing musicians of that period. In that metric, Sudha Ragunathan fits that criterion.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 30 Jul 2013, 09:09

>> Can sudha play an instrument

-- yes. Tanpura

>> Jugalbadhis !

-- yes, she did perform with TMK

SK is now more like Padma award, lot of lobbying etc... it has lost its charm... as annamalai says - if popularity is sole criteria, i have nothing against it. I have stopped hearing popular music years ago !!!

Someone compared MAA Vs BCCI... Good comparison... seems both are arrogant...but not sure MMA is as rich as BCCI

Both have contributed in their respective fields, but to limited extent...

what is MMA's mission statement (if they have one?)...How are they different from other sabhas (Don't say they have Posh auditorium with great accoustics and good Loo !!) why are we paying more attention? It's time to move attention to other sabhas where music gets priority over politics and lobbying.. my two cents...

Rajagopalan_V · Post by **Rajagopalan_V** » 30 Jul 2013, 12:16

Thus spake the (unsolicited) Advice-peddler Indian who also happens to be a self-proclaimed Carnatic Music rasika ...

The Madras Music Academy should consider instituting a new award viz. 'Sangita Kala Ranchaka' to be given to the 'most popular' amongst Vidwans/Vidhushis.

Sort of a 'listener's choice' type award which could be given to those past masters who popularize the art form by various means -- including a combination of one or more of the following -- hard work, perseverance, 100s of concerts over the years across the globe, glitz, glamour, couture, leveraging noveau technologies, gizmos, gadgets, contributing to social causes through music and/or leveraging the popularity attained through music, gaining competence, fame and popularity in other genres such as filmi music, fusion experiments, albums, panel judge in delivering historic verdicts on the "sheer bhaavam brought out by a kid in singing "kaLyaanandhaan kattikittu pudichukkalaamaa", reaching traditional music to masses through innovative initiatives, ithyaadhi....

And the traditional 'Sangita Kalanidhi' award could still go to the most deserving senior artiste based on his/her accomplishments, vidwat, hard work, erudition, patAntharam, bAni, bhAvam, musical virtuosity, creative genius, mastery over pallavi, laya, thALA, kaNakku Vazhakku, soulful and mellifluous music, dedication, devotion, bHakti towards music, sheer musicality and many such musical parameters....

This could be a clear 'sweet spot' solution to the decades-old contentious issue of the vidwat vs. popularity debate.

AsatOmA satgamaya .....

jodha · Post by **jodha** » 31 Jul 2013, 13:11

May be the MA thinks the SK awards should be like Nobel whereon the criteria is merit and not age.The merit of a vidwan is highly subjective.Some one points out hat an SK awardee should be sound in theory & mentor ship.If U go by these how TVS got SK ! he has only one disciple RSP in the performing circuit.So MA could have saved this banter at least had they selected Charumathi Ramachandran who qualifies better than SR IMHO.Congrats SR any way.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 31 Jul 2013, 13:53

Dear Friends,
In case you go by number of disciples on the performing stage,take the case of Sri Lalgudi Jayaraman.I can list the following:
Lalgudi Shrimati
Bombay Jayashree
Saketaraman
T Rukmini
HK Venkataram
Vittal Ramamurthy
Padma Shankar
Visaka Hari
Pakkala Ramadas
GJR Krishnan
Vijayalakshmi
There may be a few more.
Sri TVGoplakrishnan has many disciples performing on the stage in Mridangam,Violin,Vocal.
Sri MDR taught at Kalakshetra .In spite of his being very knowledgeable,There are no performing artists on the stage.
In some cases,there may be no correlation to get SK award based on the student criteria.However the students performing on stage should be an important one to get SK honour.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 31 Jul 2013, 14:35

If the award is supposed to represent a contribution to carnatic music over and above performance, then students, teaching, lecturing, could be an important part of that. If it is about performance, then that should not be expected. Isn't it only the few who combine great skills in both performance and teaching?

prabuddha · Post by **prabuddha** » 31 Jul 2013, 16:19

Actually it would be a good idea for the artistes to band themselves together and give out awards. That will show a different perspective from say that of the Academy. The Academy is an organization of patrons even though many of the members are very knowledgeable. In the 21st century, for the artistes not to have their own association and to hang on to the patrons' organization is anachronistic and feudal. In addition, rasikas should band themselves too and give out their own awards.

So now we can have three different perspectives. CM unfortunately still lives in the world of Serfoji, Thukkoji and Ekkoji and I don't mean that as a compliment.

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 31 Jul 2013, 17:37

arasi wrote:
Yes, the arts reflect life in another way too. Think of this: "We want our most accomplished and beautiful daughter to marry a music-loving man, coming from a highly cultural family, looks are not important, nor money", some folks say, and the next thing you know, they are bragging about their tall and handsome son-in-law who's making millions. Music appreciation? Don't ask.He loves doing night clubs...

Superb, prime minister. :ymapplause:

puru00047 · Post by **puru00047** » 31 Jul 2013, 18:05

SK's like peerage/honours/quangos these days. Anyone who's watched Yes Minister would agree

"Jobs for the boys"

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 31 Jul 2013, 19:42

Just like Oscar the selection of SK should have two components:
Popular votes and Expert committee.
By no stretch of imagination SR will make it then..
Popular votes, KJY will bag the trophy with ease
Expert committee TVG will lead the pack...

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 31 Jul 2013, 23:54

The tenure system in its Universities is a reasonable example to follow in considering many awards. It is a long and arduous journey that takes six to seven years before a young faculty is “tenured”, which implies life long appointment. In a way it can be treated as an “award”. There may be slight variations from university to university, but the criteria is embodied in these three areas.
(1) Professional competence: How good are you as a teacher? How many courses did you develop? What innovations have you made in the class room? How many students are taking your classes? What is their feed back?
(2) Professional recognition: What is your scholastic out put? How many peer reviewed papers you have published? How many grants have you obtained? How many MS and PhD students have you advised? How many books have you written?
(3) Professional service: How many committees have you headed or served? Have you done anything for the community in terms of your expertise? How many papers have you reviewed? How many grant proposals have you reviewed? How many meetings did you organize or chair?
All these criteria are discussed at several levels, internally and externally, before a decision is made. I am not saying the system is 100% fool proof, but it is nearly so, given the number of bodies who deliberate on these criteria again and again. You are also told how your review went at various levels so you have a chance to appeal if necessary.
In the case of Carnatic music, whether it is the SK or awards given by other sabhas or the awards given by organizations in the US, there is no well defined criteria or if there is one, adherence to that. It is all highly subjective , arbitrary and invariably one “strong man” decides who should get what. The Carnatic scene and the SK culture is still highly Tamil Brahmin centric and that itself poses a question. Still, the main thing to look at is this. Many deserving candidates may not get a coveted award, but those who get it must justify that award. Age is no consideration here. Mossbauer got a Nobel prize for his PhD thesis at the age of 24. He deserved it, at the same time many deserving people did not get the Nobel prize too (there is a white man element here, I must admit, similar to the Tamil Brahmin element in CM).
Dr Rama Krishnamurhy

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 01 Aug 2013, 00:08

That is an interesting insight, but it goes with a situation where the awardees have considerable, daily, professional and ethical responsibility and is also necessarily teacher-centric. Unless the MA wants to give its SKs teaching jobs for life, making them responsible for the production of young musicians and its reputation as a teaching organisation its awards do not really compare to those of an institution where higher education and research are the daily bread.

srkris · Post by **srkris** » 01 Aug 2013, 03:02

Well RKrishnamurthy & Nick have given this discussion an entirely new flavour.

While we have a proliferation of sabhas, with the Music Academy leading the pack, the respectability of the academy has been taking a hit over the years... and like the United states' economy is to the world economy, there is no clear alternative to the Music Academy, so it carries on like a lumbering giant oblivious of its successes or failures, or even it's raison d'être.

As its name shows, it was probably conceived originally as an "Academy" which means it was a vidwat (or knowledge) oriented institution. It should have evolved into something like a university undertaking lots of research etc. However it has evolved into a commercial sabha doling out sangeetha kalanidhis without transparency, regardless of the competence or popularity of the awardees.

Do we really therefore look for a university type institution - which incorporates a lot of academic rigour into its decisions and deliberations, as the posts above have called for? Is there really a demand for such an entity in the Carnatic Music scene today?

mohan · Post by **mohan** » 01 Aug 2013, 06:02

The criteria for SK eligibility is not at all clear. Here are few of my observations on this:

- The majority of awardees to date have been prolific performers at the highest level.
- A handful have been musicologists (eg Prof Sambamoorthy or TL Venkatarama Iyer) or composers (Papanasam Sivan or Ponniah Pillai).
- Teaching ability doesn't seem to have been a major criteria although some of the performer-awardees are music gurus of note as well (Ariyakudi, Semmangudi, GNB, Pinakapani, Vedavalli, UKS).
- Seniority (in age) seemed to be a criteria but there are several exceptions.

msakella · Post by **msakella** » 01 Aug 2013, 07:36

Dear brother-member, mohan, Always a society needs an efficient, honest and reliable teacher only but not a performer who always strives hard only for his/her self-aggrandisement. For a common person each and every performer appears like a great GURU and even the performer himself/herself thinks in the same manner. But, as the common person doesn’t have any yardstick either to assess the teacher’s knowledge to teach or the quality of the lesson he/she imparts to the aspirant or even to adjudge the quality of the aspirant after learning the lesson, he/she must remain satisfied with the available music-teacher on hand and the standards. In the absence of this knowledge, it is very difficult to find such a teacher even one in hundreds or even in thousands of performers. In which way a thief only can locate another thief a true teacher only can recognize another teacher. But, as all these musicians receiving all these ritual awards or titles or honours are only efficient in performing but not in teaching at all they cannot even locate an efficient teacher. To tell the fact, while it is very easy to shape a person as a good performer it is not that easy to shape a person as an efficient teacher and such a teacher only helps to maintain a healthy society. I became surprised when accidentally, three or four years back, I had been to Kalakshetra, came across some of the vocal-music-students and found that they are also not taught in the way they should be taught. More over, very sadly I found the same in all the Music-colleges and Universities of all the States I have visited. That is why the urgent need is to produce efficient teachers only but not performers. amsharma

devan · Post by **devan** » 01 Aug 2013, 21:20

it is a bitter truth.failed musicians become muscicologist or teachers.world is running because of the practical people.

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 01 Aug 2013, 22:44

The old saying those that can't do, teach has some basis in truth, but it completely overlooks the many specific skills of the teacher.

For a common person each and every performer appears like a great GURU...

Yes, they do, and the would-be student, at least when they are a beginner, has the eternal problem, if you have no experience in something, how can you tell if your teacher is any good? The only suggested answer to that that I can find is to look at their students rather than at the teacher. But still, one is judging something that one is not really qualified to judge.

skris wrote:As its name shows, it was probably conceived originally as an "Academy" which means it was a vidwat (or knowledge) oriented institution. It should have evolved into something like a university undertaking lots of research etc. However it has evolved into a commercial sabha doling out sangeetha kalanidhis without transparency, regardless of the competence or popularity of the awardees.

Another thing that I'm unable to judge, but others here are. Just what is behind the facade and public events of the MA? To what extent does the expert committee "expert (verb)" as part of the academy? How much research does it do? There are certainly some extremely eminent and scholarly people associated with it.

SK, as it stands, unlike USA-University tenure, is, essentially, just another gong, another medal, another plaque on the wall. What we see is the people who have been awarded it, and we see that, give or take the odd controversy, that yes, they are the prime of carnatic music --- but don't most sabbhas give their awards and titles to the best? But SK is the only one that people bother about. In fact, it is the only one that I can actually name!

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 02 Aug 2013, 03:41

In my opinion, the similarities between SK and the tenure process are superficial at best. I say this having served in a number of tenure committees over the years. While the rigor undertaken to vet and verify a person's credentials might have some common basis, the SK process is more like the procedure to nominate a "Distinguished" professor. While majority of faculty members on any campus are tenured in some way or the other, very few reach the Distinguished rank.

Here, we don't look for minimal standards to make tenure, but excellence. Not potential to be great, but established credentials that showcase their greatness.

In the case of SK, we would look for people who excel in performance, research, service and pedagogy. One can be weighed more strongly than the others depending on the candidate in question. But seniority (years of consistent service and public presence) is a highly prioritized factor. It is not an award given for flash-in-the-pan phenomena. Even geniuses wait their turn!

So, if we look historically from the time of Muthiah Bhagavathar to TL Venkatrama Iyer to GNB to Alathur to Ralapalli Ananthakrishna Sarma to KVN to Maharajapuram Santhanam to TNS (just a sample for every decade), you will see them having excelled in one or a combination of these factors. Some have been greater performers than teachers, some have been great vaggeyakkaras (including PS who is one of the greatest ever) but average performers, but in the end it all balances out.

Nick: SK is a very different award from all the other ones, which are given out of turn (as in no particular order) and the level of consideration/scrutiny is not the same. The reason you don't remember the other awards is because they don't matter as much (except to young artistes for whom it may be a career booster). No CM buff keeps track of who won Sangeetha kala nipuna or Nadha kala vipanchee (with all due respect to these awards).

For SK, seniority and established credentials are everything. Every society/fraternity is recognized for the rigor it shows in assessing its greats. We are looking for the same level of scrutiny in the establishment of the Sangeetha Kalanidhi and the President of this year's conference.

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 02 Aug 2013, 06:22

Dear Mahavishnu,

In case you define SK as equivalent to Distinguished Professor,then none it should be none other than MADURAI GS MANI.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 02 Aug 2013, 07:47

One has to agree regarding Shri GS Mani..of what is stated by hnbhagavan..

read http://www.hindu.com/fr/2007/06/01/stor ... 120300.htm

I read in another article about him thus " The man is a genius! His music is one of pure manodharma. On-stage innovation is his hallmark. The music comes straight from the heart, pours straight into the soul.

But singing is only one of his several musical talents. He has composed hundreds of songs, scored music for thousands of Tamil films, acted in a few, created plays, taught music all over the world."

http://rameshsaregama.blogspot.in/2010/ ... -mani.html

One more name that comes to mind is that of Shri SR Janakiraman...

A touch of subjectiveness cannot be avoided as it is human..MA is not different..

as people will not be able to see their own back...

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 02 Aug 2013, 07:58

mahavishnu wrote:In my opinion, the similarities between SK and the tenure process are superficial at best. I say this having served in a number of tenure committees over the years. While the rigor undertaken to vet and verify a person's credentials might have some common basis, the SK process is more like the procedure to nominate a "Distinguished" professor. While majority of faculty members on any campus are tenured in some way or the other, very few reach the Distinguished rank.

Here, we don't look for minimal standards to make tenure, but excellence. Not potential to be great, but established credentials that showcase their greatness.

In the case of SK, we would look for people who excel in performance, research, service and pedagogy. One can be weighed more strongly than the others depending on the candidate in question. But seniority (years of consistent service and public presence) is a highly prioritized factor. It is not an award given for flash-in-the-pan phenomena. Even geniuses wait their turn!

So, if we look historically from the time of Muthiah Bhagavathar to TL Venkatrama Iyer to GNB to Alathur to Ralapalli Ananthakrishna Sarma to KVN to Maharajapuram Santhanam to TNS (just a sample for every decade), you will see them having excelled in one or a combination of these factors. Some have been greater performers than teachers, some have been great vaggeyakkaras (including PS who is one of the greatest ever) but average performers, but in the end it all balances out.

Nick: SK is a very different award from all the other ones, which are given out of turn (as in no particular order) and the level of consideration/scrutiny is not the same. The reason you don't remember the other awards is because they don't matter as much (except to young artistes for whom it may be a career booster). No CM buff keeps track of who won Sangeetha kala nipuna or Nadha kala vipanchee (with all due respect to these awards).

For SK, seniority and established credentials are everything. Every society/fraternity is recognized for the rigor it shows in assessing its greats. We are looking for the same level of scrutiny in the establishment of the Sangeetha Kalanidhi and the President of this year's conference.

I am not claiming that SK or any awards is similar to the tenure process. I have also sat on dozens of tenure files for my university and also Ivy League Schools. The main issue there is a clear cut criteria and adherence to them. The same applies to selecting "Distinguished Professors" or "Endowed Chairs". So comparing SK and other awards to selecting a Distinguished Professor doesn't dilute my logic. The bottom line is in all these awards, there is a galore of subjectivity and s system needs to be in place where subjectivity is as minimum and apparent as possible. Sure, nothing can be 100% objective. But I can cite a score cases where the selections have been brazenly partisan and questionable.
Prof Rama Krishnamurthy

hnbhagavan · Post by **hnbhagavan** » 02 Aug 2013, 09:53

Dear Sri Venkatakailasam,

Thanks for posting the links regarding SriGS Mani.In his concerts,the first song till the last song will be compellingly sublime.In between he gives you wonderful insight regarding Music as well as life.
It is indeed regrettable that a great man who has served even at Music academy for several events is not a Sangeethakalanidhi.

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 02 Aug 2013, 15:37

The bottom line is in all these awards, there is a galore of subjectivity and s system needs to be in place where subjectivity is as minimum and apparent as possible.

If that is your point, then I don't disagree. Establishing well documented selection criteria is certainly the way forward.

I am not claiming that SK or any awards is similar to the tenure process.

The tenure system in its Universities is a reasonable example to follow in considering many awards.

HNBhagavan: Yes it is a tragedy that Sri GSM will probably never be in contention for SK. But having been given an award by the MMA already he joins the elite club of people like PSN, SRJ, TRS, MSA who will not be considered for SK (See VK's post earlier in this thread).

CRama · Post by **CRama** » 02 Aug 2013, 16:12

Madurai GS Mani has been given Sangeetha Kala Acharya?

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 02 Aug 2013, 17:05

Shri. CRama..

I have seen that in the net..We have come back to Square1...

Just like saying instead of Jangiri, I have given ' Halva'

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 02 Aug 2013, 20:41

CRama wrote:Madurai GS Mani has been given Sangeetha Kala Acharya?

G S Mani was given the Vaggeyakara Award by the Music Academy. In 2007, I think.

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Aug 2013, 04:10

Is there a Vaggeyakaara award by MA?
who are the previous winners?

Pasupathy · Post by **Pasupathy** » 03 Aug 2013, 04:21

See
http://www.musicacademymadras.in/vaggeyakara.php

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 03 Aug 2013, 04:53

Dr.BMK got both...

cmlover · Post by **cmlover** » 03 Aug 2013, 05:56

Thx Pasupathy

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 03 Aug 2013, 08:51

I checked the Music Academy web site and there is no mention about the criteria that goes into selecting the SK. The site is very vague and gives no information. So my take is that all their awards are very arbitrary and decided by one or two persons. I am not saying Sudha Raguhnathan or her predecessors did not deserve it, but the whole process is murky and questionable so that those who feel let down should move on and aim at bigger things. No body out side of Chennai and the Tamil Brahmin diaspora out side of Tamil Nadu even know what SK is.
I can site an incident. I arranged a concert by the great flutist Ramani in my town and asked him how I should introduce him. He said, it didn't matter because of this. In US no body cares for an honorary doctorate, so Dr Ramani makes no sense. No body in the US knows or cares for SK, so it doesn't matter. No body in the US knows what Padmasree is, so it doesn't matter. Anyway according to Govt of India guide lines the Padma awards can not be used in any announcements, treated as an award, or even put in the business cards . At the end of the day, I simply introduced Sri Ramani as a great musician and his performance justified my introduction. The audience of 500 was mesmerized and that is all that mattered at the end. Not the titles.

< mod note: discussion about cleveland deleted.>

arasi · Post by **arasi** » 03 Aug 2013, 09:16

Don't you agree that as rasikAs, we are more interested in music than about the politics surrounding awards? Almost all the posts here spell it out.

An award is an award--the importance attached to it is all in the minds of people.
Sabhas like to give awards. Musicians love them, and we rasikas appreciate them.

The Academy is 'the sabha', blame it on history or on the people. SarkAr (the government) is another such thing (history-reinforced--like sarkAr udyOgam!). No wonder the Padma awards are a big deal because of that.

I think Cleveland likes to give awards just as all sabhas (organizations) do, to show its appreciation of CM practitioners. No more, no less.

Are so many awards necessary--and is it necessary to grade them? May be not, but awards (giving and receiving ) do make folks happy, no doubt about that...

mahavishnu · Post by **mahavishnu** » 03 Aug 2013, 09:46

Don't you agree that as rasikAs, we are more interested in music than about the politics surrounding awards? Almost all the posts here spell it out. An award is an award--the importance attached to it is all in the minds of people.
Sabhas like to give awards. Musicians love them, and we rasikas appreciate them. awards (giving and receiving )...
do make folks happy, no doubt about that...

Arasi, that sums it up perfectly. I am happy to move on.
There is too much good music to be heard and enjoyed!

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 03 Aug 2013, 09:59

while we all agree that MMA is "private" sabha, and they have every reason to decide on their own, even if we contest their choice in court, it may not stand.. (not that i am challenging the award decision in court of law

we also have every reason to boycott MMA this year, and move to other places where we can listen to good music.

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 03 Aug 2013, 13:09

" to boycott MMA " for what? Is it for giving award to Sudha? or for not following a transparent selection procedure or for not having framed a set of norms

for selection....

you are saying on one hand that they have every reason to decide on their own and at the same breath saying that we should boycott!
even among the 7000+ of this forum, how many will join..The artists themselves will clamor for a slot to perform at MA..

munirao2001 · Post by **munirao2001** » 03 Aug 2013, 13:31

It is definitely not New Look of MA. In the year 1993, it was realized by MA that many Great Maestros/Maestros, eminently deserving are missing out this most coveted recognition and award and many younger and deserving Maestros are also likely to miss out. On the suggestion and advice of Semmengudi Mama, MA introduced 'Sangita Kala Acharya' recognition and award.

munirao2001

Nick H · Post by **Nick H** » 03 Aug 2013, 23:12

Boycott the MA? Certainly not! Unless some alleged "new look" proves to have spread to the schedules too, it will continue to be the place that puts on great performers in a great auditorium.

For me, the value of SK is in the very great awardees in my small experience, let alone the past. But it is like paper money and financial schemes: past performance is no guarantee of future success, its value may rise ...or fall.

RKrishnamurthy · Post by **RKrishnamurthy** » 05 Aug 2013, 05:29

On a different note, I thought the Website of MA is pathetic. The site has never been updated on the SK or other awardees. Worse still, the Board of Executives and Advisers carry names of people who are already deceased, like MS Gopalakrishnan, Srivatsan etc. MA, arguably the premier CM ambassador is yet to place its house in order. Few weeks of delay is understandable, but not a delay of years. May be they will come up with an excuse like the sabhas in Chennai and US that we are "all volunteers" and don't expect any great things from us even as you must appreciate the "great" things we are doing. The "volunteerism", as I have seen over the years, is the best defense against a sloppy job.

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 05 Aug 2013, 08:05

every person has his/her own freedom, and has a choice to make. If MMA has its own choice, we the rasikas can also make our own choice, either attending concerts in MMA or elsewhere! Simply, this is the point i want to convey

I am not sure 'boycott' is right way to protest. May be, if a vidwan/vidushi is performing only in MMA in the season, i might also attend

What other options we have? Can we discuss more constructively? Can we write a petition, sign and send over to MMA president, secretary and executive council ? Who will bell the cat ?

varsha · Post by **varsha** » 05 Aug 2013, 08:28

To be without some of the things we love is an integral part of happiness .
MDR , LALGUDI add lustre to that title in their own way .
Let us celebrate and keep celebrating.
The existence of MA may not mean much to some ( like they say for democracy )
The absence of it means a lot more .
I cannot believe any artist is not earnest enough .
Dont like the choice? Treat it as a second SK for MLV
Boy ! She deserves a hundred SK's . What a genius !!!!!

bilahari · Post by **bilahari** » 05 Aug 2013, 08:59

Pattamaa, we gots to storm the Bastille!

pattamaa · Post by **pattamaa** » 05 Aug 2013, 08:59

Dont like the choice? Treat it as a second SK for MLV :ymapplause:

but, we have vidushi's like Kanyakumari who deserve better...

venkatakailasam · Post by **venkatakailasam** » 05 Aug 2013, 09:17

Artist to Artist comparison may not be in good taste..that is my conviction..as it applies among children also.

Sudha has a reputation ..built up among her fans who have themselves built up a club...

" SR’s concerts are a delight to watch and hear. SR had this unique opportunity to live with MLV and learn many things other than music; she has cultivated rasikas like what Smt. MLV had developed. Today, people are proud to say that they have attended the most number of her concerts in a particular season. Her fans seem to be ready to die to listen to her. Her humility in mingling with the rasikas is the main reason for her loyal fan following. Also, she obliges the song requests from many rasikas wholeheartedly.

SR has one of the greatest qualities of legendary musicians, by again and again pulling the audience no matter where the concert of hers is held. It is also a fact that awards and appreciations from various Sabhas credited themselves by getting on to her. It is also a pride nowadays for various establishments/firms to get it inaugurated with the visit of our dearest SR. .."
http://www.sudharagunathanfans.com/sudharagunathan.php

There seems to be nothing wrong in calling it as second SK for MLV..

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Aug 2013, 15:59

Mahavishnu wrote:

"Nick, SK is a very different award from all the other ones, which are given out of turn (as in no particular order) and the level of consideration/scrutiny is not the same. The reason you don't remember the other awards is because they don't matter as much (except to young artistes for whom it may be a career booster). No CM buff keeps track of who won Sangeetha kala nipuna or Nadha kala vipanchee (with all due respect to these awards)."

Is it just happenstance that you chose "Nada Kala Vipanchee" as an example?

That is a title given by "Vipanchi", an organization dedicated to Dance and Music which was managed by the recently deceased Dr Saraswathi Sundaresan.

The award carries a citation. No purse, not even for Rs 100 which barely buys tiffin at a local restaurant, is offered.

This means that "Vipanchi" can choose to offer the title to one or more artists without regard to what the moneybags would demand. Their cost is that of printing an award certificate which can be done on a home PC for almost zero cost.

On the other hand, any title from the Music Academy, Krishna Gana Sabha, Thyaga Brahma Gana Sabha, Brahma Gana Sabha or Narada Gana Sabha(?) carries a purse of Rs 100,000. Even the "Isai Peroli" from Kartik Fine Arts has a purse of Rs 50,000.

If you approach a moneybag for supporting your organization, is he going to hand over Rs 100,000 to some Ram, Dick or Hari who happens to be your choice for the award? Don't bet your life on it. He wants to see a crowd for the function where the money is handed out. Crowds come to see celebrity musicians not talented ones.

So last year, the podavai mami collected awards from seven sabhas. The icing on the cake happens to be the Sangeetha Kalanidhi this year.

Thus, "Nada Kala Vipanchee" may be a more honest award than the Sangeetha Kalanidhi!

)

The Blind Monkey has triumphed over the Dancing Snake!

harimau · Post by **harimau** » 05 Aug 2013, 16:11

Ramasubramanian M. K. wrote:

It certainly was not unanimous--anonymous sources tell me that when these-- initial discussions came up for SK there was a drum-beat for Sudha but Murali was quoted to be ambivalent and is purported to have remarked Ippo Enna Avasaram

This is disinformation at its best.

Just a couple of months back you yourself reported that Sudha is the likely Sangeetha Kalanidhi-elect this year.

The powers-that-be ran the flag up the pole and waited to see who would salute. The 24-member Executive Committee had the choice of falling in line and saluting or making sure that the door did not hit them on their rear as they were thrown off the committee.

Most organizations are run not democratically but on the philosophy "My way or the highway". So to think that the committee unanimously went against the "Ippo enna avasaram?" comment of the top man is ludicrous.