harimau!
You are 'a bang' on!
IMHO the quality of CM has fallen over the years as also the quality of Rasikas..
The "mamis" of today are more concerned with poDavai and trinkets than the "vidvat" of the performer..
No wonder the quality of selecting SK also has deteriorated along with the value of our currency..
Congratulations to Sudha Ragunathan for another big feather in her cap. Going by her recent interviews I read, I guess she is fully cognizant of the expectations this award elicits!!
Just going through the thread with viewpoints across and it only brings smiles, along with some sadness at some comments. Arasi, that was a good congratulatory note at the beginning and yes, as a woman I am proud as well that this time the awardee is another woman-that makes ten from MA so far since 1929 – can’t say any of the women were undeserving by any standards!
Any choice will always have a ‘why’ and a ‘why not’ especially when it is so coveted. An SK award is definitely a jewel in the crown so it is only normal that it comes for so much of scrutiny. But to wash away a professional‘s three decade plus activities in her chosen profession is not on. Yes, change is welcome and like in all other areas of CM – fusions, jugal bandhis, simplifying and taking it to a larger group that are being worked upon by stalwart musicians to accommodate changing profiles and tastes, why then are we so rigid when it comes to rewarding –shouldn’t the metrics for assessment be on par here as well? Progressive and forward thinking, encouraging those with a broader perspective of leveraging their other skills and using music as the principle conduit to add value to this world?
If one were to introspect, is it not evident that the current audience for a CM concert consists of varied profiles – the dwindling senior group, the baby boomers, the generation jones paving way for a more adventurous, curious and innovative Gen X that is again slowly making space for the aggressive Gen Y…so when one is adapting to cater to such changes, are we not losing out by harping on some criteria that may have been relevant a few decades ago. I have been to a couple of Sudha Ragunathan’s concerts and apart from the regular pattern followed, there is a zing that she brings into the presentations – and if she is presentable with terrific stage presence, well then it makes a great visual and aural package. Grooming definitely also constitutes to a metric in presentation. So what’s the big deal about commenting on her accessories – maybe that’s her brand and trademark.
Lets confine ourselves to her knowledge and also keep track of how she carries the sessions from 15 December. A disciple of an illustrious Guru, from the GNB school, a linguist whose diction is perfect in her renderings, doing justice to Dasa just the way her Guru did, sparkling Thyagayya presentations, a good smattering of fusion and jugal bandhis and also some service to society, makes for great versatility. If I recollect an organizer quoting while I attended one of her concerts in Banglore – ‘ difficult to manage madam – every time Sudha madam sings, traffic jam here and people do not feel bad standing and listening for those full three hours and more. Really very great!’ I did look at him skeptically until I then witnessed it for myself – she is indeed a crowd puller…her music does reach and also reach out! So lets just celebrate the musician’s commitment as well. An award also signifies principally how much impact your music has created across all sections, does it not?
Shalu,
Yes, I am happy a woman is the recipient of the SK award--without getting emotional about it, I would have liked it even more if the golden Girl had been chosen!
All that you mention, SR has achieved and more. It's not her talents, her fame and fan following that have been disputed here. On the contrary, many who have posted in this thread not only agree with you, but emphasize it! That's it.
Somehow, these qualifications are not necessary to win the award, they feel.
A woman winning any award makes me happy of course, but in this case, I wouldn't have minded a vidvAn winning it. For some odd reason, the SK still spells an old world charm, however much, as the title of this thread suggests, the old charm no longer exists (charm here means--the way in which CM VidvAns and vidUshis have nurtured it with steadfast devotion. From that angle, MA could have chosen a 'solely focused on CM' musician. A more senior musician.
Of course, I would like to see younger ones winning it in the coming years. As I said before, Ravikiran for example fits the bill. Young, so what? He's a senior vidvAn when you count the number of years he has been performing--and in scholarship, research, teaching, composing (not just songs but also musicals). No, I'm not saying he should have been the chosen one. I'm merely asking: why not him or someone like him?
So much has been said about it, and many responsible and discerning rasikAs have said here why they are disappointed in the Academy's choice. It's not questioning Sudha R or her abilities. It's about their image about the award, and how some who are worthy of it have been overlooked. They also may feel that if the (let's say it) award of awards is going to sport this new look, how about the rest of the awards in the coming years?
Enough has been said, but since you asked me, I felt obliged to answer. By the way, many rasikAs have said it more eloquently and with authority...
Couldnt agree with you more on what you have mentioned...i am aware that the group is cognizant of Sudha Ragunathan's capabilities, I simply stressed upon them from what I have seen and experienced...commending it being given to a woman was just incidental, being from the woman fraternity. The point I was wanting to put across is vidwat is not only knowing but how much of the knowledge you disseminate simplistically for a larger reach and understanding. Dexterity also exposes one to a varied section and profile of people who may have missed out on understanding Carnatic music because they felt it was complex and for a defined group. Musicians such as Sudha should be instrumental in making them understand and appreciate it -else what a loss it would be for them. While the recepients sit and conduct and chair many sessions, there is a larger group outside who need a more simplistic exposure. And a Vidwan/Vidhushi has to play this role in the days that come by. Thanks for your response and elucidation
Arasi - well written summary of the discussions so far.
Shalu - none of us against SR ! Only crib that "madi" or "suddha" sangeetham has been compromised for "popular" sangeetham... Those who were popular in earlier times - MSS, MMI, or even MVS never compromised on sudhha sangeetham.. may be, times have changed, and we are confined to listen to odd legends (like i did with TNK few days before), or to drawing rooms like CD/Mp3 etc
If vidwath, innovation, popularity, classicism undiluted by pandering to the unwashed masses, etc., are considered, how can one overlook Mandolin U Srinivas?
Here is an artist hailed as a boy genius. He adapted the mandolin for Carnatic music with no one to tell him how to do it. He learnt from a vocalist from the very beginning, evolving his technique on the instrument. He became so popular that I call mandolin 'the curse of Andhra' since quite a few instrumentalists from that state have picked up the mandolin.
Gave his first performance at age 9. Took Chennai by storm at age 11 with his performance.
Drew he crowds wherever he performed. In fact, he and Maharajapuram Santhanam were the only two persons who could draw crowds and could command a fee of Rs 10,000 in the 1980s. Of the two, he was not the one who was singing Carnatic Music Lite, Basant Bahar thillana and Bho Sambho to please the unwashed masses.
Has performed all over the world to capacity crowds. Has performed jugalbandhi and fusion concerts with the likes of John McLaughlin of Shakti/Mahavishnu Orchestra.
Yet not one of you even thought of him.
His drawbacks: he is of Telegu origin and he is not a Vaishnavite.
Music Academy has learnt well from the political scene in India. If one commits a series of crimes, each bigger than the previous one, the public gets tired of getting outraged about it.
This award is the first of the crimes. Watch the next few years.
If Ravi Kiran gets it next year, do not rejoice. That would only be a sop.
Wait 2-3 years and you will see how the premier art establishments of Chennai have been hijacked.
Harimau,
Seeing how it went this year, Srinivas was right there in the top of my 'why not so and so?' list. He belongs , like Ravikiran, in the 'piRaviyilEyE iSaiyALar' (born a musician) category and, he is one who has been living his music for so long!
And, it's after all a minority among sensible rasikAs which will go for community, caste and such, for heaven's sake
harimau
The escalation of "crimes" may soon lead to the young Genius ARR winnng the SK when the cup will be filled to the brim!
Then CM would have broken the Cine barrier along with Religious faith!
The theme song will be "OTTAkathai kaTTikkO" in (un)chaste Dharmavati and the Sadas will debate
how the Trinity missed composing GhAna songs by an eye lash....
harimau wrote:Music Academy has learnt well from the political scene in India. If one commits a series of crimes, each bigger than the previous one, the public gets tired of getting outraged about it.
I thought there is lot of support to award next year SK to Jaya TV carnatic idol winner he/she will be youngest to the award, and this will be extremely new look for MMA !
Nick - if this ever happens, there is no chance for "classical" music to survive ! the likes of guruvayur durai, karaikudi Mani, TVG, (current gen - VIjay Siva, Sanjay, Gurucharan etc als0) and other legends will never get a chance for even SK nomination !! Only "popular" music win The "classical" musicians must get into light classical, movies, saree ads, jingles, TV serials etc, if they want to be considered for SK.
Don't forget the lucrative market in ...ringtones!
Of course we jest, and hope that such a thing does not ever happen, but even jokes can have a serious element and, offtopic, I wonder: have the recent classical-oriented TV competitions harmed music? I have no opinion on this, because I do not watch TV.
I certainly don’t understand why people in this group are so obsessed with few performing artist. I don’t see any reason why Sudha Ragunathan shouldn’t be conferred Sangita Kalanidhi award. This recognition for Sudha has come after several years of her hard work. Let’s not forget the fact that Sudha has got all her attention from audience when stalwarts like SSI, KVN, PSN, Nedunuri, TNS and Vedavalli were in pucca form. She did compete with them and stunningly amazed listeners with her capability to deliver pristine music.
These are the following things I admire about Sudha Ragunathan concerts.
1. She doesn’t give up on traditional concert pattern.
2. She ensures to deliver all sangatis of her padantara.
3. From the minute curtain raises, she gives her best. Doesn’t sound lethargic, lazy or give up.
4. She doesn’t sing RTPs in johnpuri, behag, Maand, all such fancy raagas. If it is Sudha’s concert you can certainly expect her to render rtps in truly classical ragas.
5. She doesn’t stops concerts in between and talk or sound rude to audience.
6. One artist who doesn’t say that she is knowledgeable. She is technically sound and doesn’t believe in talking about it. If she wasn’t technically strong she would have been dissolved in air years back while competing with above mentioned senior artists.
7. She plays Veena at home. Hasn’t performed Veena concerts.
8. Someone has clearly highlighted her ability to sing flawless rtps. I am not going to highlight her creative rtps she rendered over these years.
9. I have heard from several senior musicians saying that Sudha has extraordinary capability to stun listeners at any point of the concert. She can easily perform 4 hours concert.
10. I can highlight few concerts here….. 2006 December- Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan concert. While she was entering the hall I heard her saying I am running temperature and she wasn't sure about delivering fulfilling concert ... Within half an hour’s time.. She was in form .. She sang Thodi ragam for 21 minutes. Thodi rtp was covered in 1 hr 10 mins ..I was mesmerized.
11. Mylapore fine arts 2012 concert- Someone asked me to pass chit to dais.. The chit carried a note saying can you please render “Shankarabharanai Azhaithodi Vadi Kalyani Durbarruku” rtp. Within fifteen mins she started singing shankarabharanam ragam. She glided from one ragam to another doing gruha bedham..
12. 2011- MA academy. Recording is available in tag center. Please listen to it.
13. 25 yrs of experience rendering concerts .. She doesn’t find it hard to adhere to sruthi .. She doesn’t take 2 hours to settle down with sruthi .. most of u who genuinely followed music season will know what happened in MA to so called genius singers last year .. Need not mention any names here. Recordings are available in tag center .. For another senior musician it took 1 hour 26 minutes to settle down with right sruthi. “Vaazhi maari ponna Sruthi illada kutcheri” .. Such concerts are still heard in music academy. After the concert .. I do read few people blindly praise such musicians here in this website. If this website seeks FB/linkedin id to be linked to website to maintain membership here .. I am sure this membership count will drastically fall by 50%.
For people who question Sudha Ragunathan’s role in Carnatic music … Please take few minutes of your so called valuable time .. visit tag center and listen to her MA concerts from 1987. That stands as proof. She certainly need not pretentiously take up karate talas to mesmerize audience.
I truly congratulate MA panel for unanimously voting for Sudha Ragunathan... True headtunner of carnatic music .. Clap Clap Clap@ Sangita Kalanidhi. Smt.Sudha Ragunathan
Last edited by Madras Talkies on 08 Aug 2013, 19:13, edited 4 times in total.
Sudha Ragunathan and Ravikiran belong to same generation .. It's not about the silly way of looking at it .. who gets the award first ... Next year, Ravikiran is likely to be considered.
And for Christ sake .. Don't take musicians of this generation .. They have just started performing for past 10 -12 years .. Give them few more years .. Let's see if they can sit down and sing for two hrs with Sruthi ...
Last edited by Madras Talkies on 08 Aug 2013, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Madras Talkies - many many thanks for your points and arguments. Well taken..
The point is that of the late, she is compromised a lot, to survive along with other co-artists which i won't name !
No questions on her knowledge, philanthropy etc... I have heard lot of MLV concerts, and mad fan. i have heard a concert of sangeetha swaminathan (Sudha's shishya), and found her music is arresting. Another rasika, who introduced me to sangeetha's music, told me that though she is sudha's student, the music is like MLV !! Which i found it to be true..
I will listen to some of the recordings above, and critically analyze. Hope i can find her recent concert recording in sangeethapriya. Or, will attend an upcoming concert, and will analytically review.
Can we analyze her music, and not her personality. We don't care what someone do off-stage, whether they wear biknis or do saree advs..
I totally agree @ Pattama.. Extremely small people still continue to look at what one does in personal life.. To me Sudha is a carnatic musician .. I don't care what she does before or after the concert. To me only music matters...
I would like to quote from Sriram's lecdem on GNB .. Every musician goes thru a cycle of ups and downs... So did GNB and MLV .. In some cases few have highlighted that Sudha has compromised ... I have been following her for past three years.. I see a huge transition in her rendition style .. I attended most her 2012 concerts...She has worked on the Bhavam factor .. Let's not be judgmental about few left over promising carnatic musicians such as Sudha Ragunathan...
I will listen to some of the recordings above, and critically analyze. Hope i can find her recent concert recording in sangeethapriya. Or, will attend an upcoming concert, and will analytically review.
@ That sounds like a genuine way to evaluate musician ... Much appreciated
Madras Talkies wrote:I totally agree @ Pattama.. Extremely small people still continue to look at what one does in personal life.. To me Sudha is a carnatic musician .. I don't care what she does before or after the concert. To me only music matters...
I would like to quote from Sriram's lecdem on GNB .. Every musician goes thru a cycle of ups and downs... So did GNB and MLV .. In some cases few have highlighted that Sudha has compromised ... I have been following her for past three years.. I see a huge transition in her rendition style .. I attended most her 2012 concerts...She has worked on the Bhavam factor .. Let's not be judgmental about few left over promising carnatic musicians such as Sudha Ragunathan...
I will listen to some of the recordings above, and critically analyze. Hope i can find her recent concert recording in sangeethapriya. Or, will attend an upcoming concert, and will analytically review. @ That sounds like a genuine way to evaluate musician ... Much appreciated
Dear Madras Talkies:
You held my attention until this last post, on some aspects of which I beg to differ. This is a forum that discusses and judges music and related matters. To say "not be judgmental" when what is being discussed is an award presumably awarded for exalted achievement in music is somewhat like asking for scientific publications from a Nobel laureate to be excused from review! As such, such recognitions of "exaltedness" and superlative achievement are and should be open to far more scrutiny and review (as they should be - because the truly deserving will not only stand on their own, but also help enlighten). Furthermore, I substantially disagree that the reason to not be judgmental is simply because "few left over promising carnatic musicians".....firstly, there are quite a few (and the lack of recognition to the more senior and perhaps more deserving ones is the point of discussion) and secondly (and more importantly) each generation has but only a few true "stars" and in some ways we the forumites are trying to see if SK truly recognizes these true achievers....
Also, the fact that you state that you will attend "an upcoming concert and will analytically review" and thus your admission that you have not been very objective in your evaluation of the subject matter - which as such nullifies the rather substantial arguments you put forth in your earlier post!!
alpajnani wrote: Also, the fact that you state that you will attend "an upcoming concert and will analytically review" and thus your admission that you have not been very objective in your evaluation of the subject matter - which as such nullifies the rather substantial arguments you put forth in your earlier post.
I certainly do not want to get into this discussion at all (to reiterate what I said earlier, my bar is very low - as long as the prime reason for the award is not suicide prevention, I am perfectly fine with the choice - any choice, blind-monkey, sighted-monkey, singing-monkey, or 'eyes of the mind' notwithstanding!) - I just want to point out what happens when lack of attention on the part of the poster create issues in the understanding of the point being made...the text in red is not something that Madras Talkies said, as you have assumed - he/she was quoting pattama (without the benefit of using the 'Quote' utility), and hence your misattribution of the idea to Madras Talkies - It was pattamma who was accepting the fact that he/she had not given the SK-awardee the benefit of an analytical review. So, perhaps the arguements put forth by Madras Talkies will now stand on their merit??
rshankar and cmlover - Thanks for pointing this out. Much appreciated.
Madras Talkies - I am sorry that I misunderstood. I take back my words on this aspect.
he was not the one who was singing Carnatic Music Lite, Basant Bahar thillana and Bho Sambho to please the unwashed masses.
Of course the 'Mandolin' genius who sounded like a lead guitarist instead chose the razzmatazz of Raghuvamsa sudha, Ninnuvina and Niravathi sukhada in each and every concert. In fact he should be credited with being the pioneer of fusion music in a classical Carnatic concert with the breakneck speeds and mrudangam/tavil combo blasting away to glory.
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